I know that pirates figure in prominently in STAP, so this is probably a stupid question, but will the combat with pirates be done ship to ship? With Stormwrack I believe this is possible. One of my players is considering playing a Legendary Captain and they seem to excell at that sort of thing, so I'm just curious..
Very good question, actually. I was considering a legendary leader/ legendary captain, but decided not to because I figured that Paizo wouldn't write modules that required a non-SRD book and also wouldn't reprint the vehicle rules. The simplest solution is for there to simply be no ship/ship combat, or at least none sufficinetly complex as to use the vehicle rules - which, of course, would make a legendary captain pretty useless.
I'm hoping that it's going to be written in an open enough way that you can include more ship-to-ship combat if you're group wants it. One of my players is going to be playing a Legendary Captain, and he will expect at least a few instances of naval combat. And I would think that they would write this with Stormwrack in mind, because I hope to use it alot!
If you can get your hands on it, check out Pirate Isles by Mongoose Publishing. It was originally for the Conan RPG, but it has some excellent abstract ship combat rules, as well as feats and some other excellent source material for running pirates, ship combat, and naval adventures. You should be able to plug all this into the STAP with little effort, as its all d20.
I'm a big fan of narrative or abstract mass combat, as are my players. So having a rough set of rules is usually sufficient to measure the player's performance in the battle and its effect on the battle's outcome. I only use miniatures and vehicle combat rules for individual combats with 12 or fewer opponents.
The sea voyage from Sasserine to the Isle of Dread will provide plenty of opportunities for ship encounters, though you should be very careful about this since a lost ship-to-ship battle may mean never reaching the PCs' destination. There will be plenty of things going on within the confines of their own ship to keep them busy as well.
Cool. Thanks for the info, Steve.
I geuss it could sort of derail the adventure if the ship sank and the characters got marooned on an island, huh?
I am not running this adventure path(although I will in the future) but my campaign is seafaring(with the World being a collection of Islands itself)
I have acquired both Stormwrack and Seafarer's Handbook from Fantasy Flight Games and I am wondering if there is someone here who has playtested both and can attest to pros and cons.(specifically about the rules of ship-to-ship combat)
Also another query: What happens after the resolution of a naval encounter?
What if the players decide to capture and use(or sell) the enemy vessel?
Isn't that unbalanced? I know rules regarding the maintenance and running crew of a ship can work as a safety net against that but there are ways to get around them.(After all this is a fantasy setting and besides magic there are certain items and options available to PCs that ancient mariners wouldn't even dream of)
I welcome any help and brainstorming
I have acquired both Stormwrack and Seafarer's Handbook from Fantasy Flight Games and I am wondering if there is someone here who has playtested both and can attest to pros and cons.(specifically about the rules of ship-to-ship combat)
I also have Stormwrack as well as "Salt and Sea Dogs" from the Kalamar setting which is really good, and "Seas of Blood" from Mongoose publishing which is a bit too high fantasy for my tastes. I'm not sure if I have the seafaring handbook, or if I just didn't think it was all that good.
I am mostly familiar with the ship combat rules of Stormwrack. S&SD seems to be a bit more detailed, but in turn a bit more complex and incongruous with Stormwrack's rules that I know, which is why I haven't familiarized myself with them.
I am about to playtest Stormwrack rules when I have time.Though they have required a bit of tweaking, and if they don't work out, then I will go with general narration of ship battles for the adventure.
I am using Pirates of the Spanish Main ships at a scale of 1/360, which makes a one inch square about 30 feet. The 6 second round of D&D combat won't work well for ships at this scale, as most of their speeds will be less than 30'/round. As long as ships are out of the range of long range spells (400 ft. + 40 ft./level, so 800ft at 10th level, 1200 ft. at 20th) you can do say 5 rounds of travel or actions in one turn. But once you get within attack range, you will need to go to single round turns, which may slow the action down.
You may also need to make a ship record sheet, as Stormwrack suprisingly has none.
Also another query: What happens after the resolution of a naval encounter?
Well, a number of things can happen after a naval encounter. A faster ship can flee, the losing ship can be sinking or derelict or have all of it's crew killed (most likely outcome with the D&D rules). A boat with a lower draft can hide in shallow waters that one with a greater draft can't. That's almost like what happens after a combat on land with Bugbears. What are you expecting to happen?
What if the players decide to capture and use(or sell) the enemy vessel?
Isn't that unbalanced? I know rules regarding the maintenance and running crew of a ship can work as a safety net against that but there are ways to get around them.(After all this is a fantasy setting and besides magic there are certain items and options available to PCs that ancient mariners wouldn't even dream of)
Well, I would use the "there's always a bigger fish" strategy to bring it back into balance, should you so choose to not let them keep the captured ship. Though some may argue that an encounter with a foe greater than the PC's can handle is unbalanced, but I think those people are fetishizing balance.
Other than that if they don't have the crew to man the second ship as you stated, there is the danger of collision with the captured ship in tow, especially if they run into bad weather. Even if successful and they go with the use of the captured ship, they would have to hire on new crew, who may not take kindly to bossy adventurers and mutiny on their new ship.
Bob
I have acquired both Stormwrack and Seafarer's Handbook from Fantasy Flight Games and I am wondering if there is someone here who has playtested both and can attest to pros and cons.(specifically about the rules of ship-to-ship combat)Also another query: What happens after the resolution of a naval encounter?
What if the players decide to capture and use(or sell) the enemy vessel?
Isn't that unbalanced? I know rules regarding the maintenance and running crew of a ship can work as a safety net against that but there are ways to get around them.(After all this is a fantasy setting and besides magic there are certain items and options available to PCs that ancient mariners wouldn't even dream of)I welcome any help and brainstorming
With regards to combat systems, I'd recommend using Stormwrack rules to simplify the early phase of naval encounters and bring the battle quickly to the grappling stage. I have a "Seafarer's Handbook" from Legends & Lairs, which has a combat system somewhat reminiscent of the unit combat rules in the back of the WotC Miniatures Handbook. It's a bit more complex, but at least reduces the melee of ordinary sailors around the PCs to a simpler unit combat format. I haven't playtested either one--if your players like to spend full sessions doing miniatures battles (i.e. wargaming), then the Seafarer's Handbook might be a better option. Stormwrack will leave the hardcore wargamer types feeling cheated, but is probably better for groups that like a faster paced game.
As far as captured vessels go, there are several things to keep in mind:
1) It is fairly unlikely to sink a vessel in D&D without cannons, except by burning it to the waterline with multiple fireballs. So capture is quite likely.
2) Once captured, your PCs will need to determine whether the vessel is seaworthy. If it is, then you have the problem of coming up with a prize crew large enough to sail the vessel to a friendly port. If there aren't enough sailors to sail both your ship and the prize, you've got to either put some of your enemies to work (possibly a dangerous proposition, as they might mutiny if they can catch you off-guard), or you've got to abandon either the prize or your original vessel. This problem won't apply to the Crimson Fleet ships captured during the assault on Farshore, but will apply to any other naval encounters during the AP.
3) Traditionally, the sale value of a prize ship (captured on the high seas) and its cargo are divided among the captain, officers, and crew of the ship that captured it. A quarter for the captain, a quarter to be divided between the officers, and the rest to be divided between the crew is probably reasonable. (If you want to do some research, you can probably find out what is typical under admiralty law).
4) It would not be unreasonable for the government of Farshore to lay claim to any vessels captured or abandoned in the harbor as a result of the battle there. Since these ships are in inland waters, the rules are different. You can have Lavinia trot out her superior knowledge of Sasserine's legal system to assert this claim, and have her give the PCs a large bonus to keep them from grumbling too much.
Edit: Here's a link to the wikipedia entry on how the Royal Navy divided prize money.
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Either way, Seafarer's Handbook has a LOT of value in what it contains that's not covered in Stormwrack. It covers how some skills would work if used underwater, some neat feats and spells, and a 3D underwater combat system that takes depth into account. We never used that combat system but even then, nor did we use the ship to ship rules, but even then, there was plenty of good stuff in it that we were able to make good use of.
I recommend both if you're going to run STAP and put more than a cursory focus on the nautical side, like we did. Pick and choose, mix and match what works for you.
I have to say that my fave is Swashbuckling Adventures d20/ 7th Sea. You can pick up the supplement for ship combat (the name escapes me) on Ebay for under $15.00. Most 7th Sea adventures have ship plans in them as well. I found that Stormwrack had some good but didn't address the volley of canon fire or catapults from ship to ship as much as I would enjoy.
You might be able to start out an encounter using Whiz Kids pocket models Pirates of the Crimson Sea and then go into a boarding action.
Thank you all for your tips and swift response. I wish for fair winds in the sails of your imagination ;)