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I also have a poster-sized Map of Mystery in the works, that I hope I can persuade Paizo to buy when it's finished. I might give that the deluxe treatment and use it as another example of what's possible when maps and adventures converge into one blended piece of art.
A GIANT MAP OF MYSTERY?!
Ooh, Paizo you have to make this happen. A giant MoM is just what the doctor ordered.
And if were a doctor I'd order you take 2 MoMs, put them in the magazine and call me in the morning.
Please add my fanboy drool to the thought of you doing a poster sized map of mystery.
Fangirl drool here!
Poster sized map of mystery would be great!!
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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We agree on something?
Please add my fanboy drool to the thought of you doing a poster sized map of mystery.
Not possible. You must have misstated your earlier position. ;-)
Weren't we (eventually) in agreement on MMIV? And surely we must agree relatively frequently. I don't think of you as being someone with whom I generally disagree. Of course, I generally disagree with anyone and everyone, at (great) length, so it's hard for me to keep track.
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We agree on something?
Please add my fanboy drool to the thought of you doing a poster sized map of mystery.Not possible. You must have misstated your earlier position. ;-)
Weren't we (eventually) in agreement on MMIV? And surely we must agree relatively frequently. I don't think of you as being someone with whom I generally disagree. Of course, I generally disagree with anyone and everyone, at (great) length, so it's hard for me to keep track.
Whew, I thought it was just me.
FH (runnin' out of bracket-quotes)
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Mr. Christopher West, I have a question regarding a map of mystery from a while back. The Town of Deepwatch is the map in question and I was wondering if it is fleshed out anywhere? Do you use it and have it all done up or is it in another book or just any general ideas on size/population and such. I think it would make a great town for adventurers to start up in and was hoping to avoid doing leg-work if someone may have already done it.
Thanks
FH
Oh my gods, I have died and found Nirvana! (the plane, not the band)
Guildport is the one MoM that has forever stuck with me. I was somewhat annoyed when I was unable to locate that map on Wizards' website way back when and was told by email there were no plans to ever put it online. I have long resisted the urge to shred that issue of Dungeon in order to scan in the map.
I am glad I waited.
Mr. West was kind enough to host it on his OWN website!
It is now on my hard-drive... (and like a good Rogue, I am also engaged in looting the entire site to boot)
THANK YOU SIR!!!
I am all in favor of a poster-sized MoM! I'd love to see and SPEND MONEY ON a book-sized collection of MoM's as well.
--Doc, the Map-Junkie
I am all in favor of a poster-sized MoM! I'd love to see and SPEND MONEY ON a book-sized collection of MoM's as well.--Doc, the Map-Junkie
ME TOO ME TOO ME TOO!!!!
--Fang
I've been told that the Gimp, which is a free downloadable Photoshop clone, has a map generator built into it.
TK
If it does it sure is well hidden. I've been making maps and handouts with GIMP for more then a year now and I have never seen anything like a random map generator. It would not make sense in anycase. GIMP is not designed as a RPG product but as a Photoshop clone.
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Mr. Christopher West, I have a question regarding a map of mystery from a while back. The Town of Deepwatch is the map in question and I was wondering if it is fleshed out anywhere? Do you use it and have it all done up or is it in another book or just any general ideas on size/population and such. I think it would make a great town for adventurers to start up in and was hoping to avoid doing leg-work if someone may have already done it.
While I have a number of ideas floating around in my head regarding the Town of Deepwatch, I've never fleshed it out in any published or written form. The map is a standalone piece for DMs to use as they wish.
In my mind, the Darkendeep is a lake so deep that its bottom is uncharted, possibly broadening out into a massive underground cavern larger than the town itself. Something vile and unfathomably dangerous once emerged here from the cold reaches below (destroying the old bridge in the process?) and was fought back at great cost. The Darkendale Keep was built to watch over the lake and guard against another emergence. Over time, as nothing else arose from the lake, the region became restful once more and the town of Deepwatch grew up around the lake to support the keep's garrison and enjoy its protection against the more mundane perils of the surrounding wilderness.
Mr. West was kind enough to host it on his OWN website!
That's because the publisher was kind enough to let me include the work in my online portfolio, but it needs to be re-noted that I don't hold the copyright on any of the maps that I've done for WotC or Paizo, and thus can't give approval for the use of my site as anything other than a showcase (a much-outdated showcase, at that) of my older work.
Gosh I need to find time to update that thing.
I'm delighted you revived this thread! It had fallen by the wayside before I discovered these boards existed, so I didn't get a chance to chime in.
Christopher West, your maps throughout the years have been the STRONGEST factor bringing me back to D&D time and again. My group has broadened out dozens of times over the years into other forms of roleplaying, from Call of Cthulhu to Traveller to GURPS Biotech and Reign of Steel to Star Wars to d20 Modern horror or espionage campaigns, to (all right, I'll admit it) even Deadlands. Yet I inevitably find myself opening a Dungeon Magazine (always to the last pages first, of course), seeing one of your maps, being struck by ideas that turn into stories and then adventures, and then hauling all of my players back into D&D.
I'm a HUGE fan.
Maps work for me on so many levels. During adventure design, I usually start and end with a map. Maps provide inspiration in a concrete form. Often, they comprise a physical manifestation of the flow chart of the adventure's encounters. It's hard to think of adventuring without maps.
Would you consider critiquing a map or two done by someone far less gifted? I did some maps for Dungeon a while ago and am working on some new ideas. I'd be forever grateful for some guidance!
If not, no prob, I'm STILL a HUGE fan.
I'd also like to thank you for your brilliant work, Mr. West!
I'm currently in the process of writing an adventure that includes the Cryomancer Icicle Tower map, one of my favourite MoMs. The tower is the demesne of an especially cruel spell weaver in a sidequest of my Shackled City campagin. I still haven't decided what monster to put in the icy lake though. A water naga maybe? hm...
Oh, I also have a suggestion for a future MoM:
I'd love to see an elephant graveyard surrounded by wild jungles and a cliffside. Maybe some cannibals could live in small housings in those cliffs?
I could imagine an exciting map but don't have the skills to draw it myself....
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Christopher West, your maps throughout the years have been the STRONGEST factor bringing me back to D&D time and again.
Wow, I'm honored! Thanks for the kind words; I'm glad to know my work is helping to keep people in the game I love.
Would you consider critiquing a map or two done by someone far less gifted? I did some maps for Dungeon a while ago and am working on some new ideas. I'd be forever grateful for some guidance!
I'd be happy to! Of course, my opinion is free, and some people say "you get what you pay for", so I don't know how useful it will be. :)
I'd love to see an elephant graveyard surrounded by wild jungles and a cliffside. Maybe some cannibals could live in small housings in those cliffs?
I could imagine an exciting map but don't have the skills to draw it myself....
Sounds pretty cool! I'll keep that in mind. :)
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Sounds pretty cool! I'll keep that in mind. :)I'd love to see an elephant graveyard surrounded by wild jungles and a cliffside. Maybe some cannibals could live in small housings in those cliffs?
I could imagine an exciting map but don't have the skills to draw it myself....
This brings up the question: How to you get the ideas for MoM? Does paizo tell you what they want, or do you just show them what you came up with?!
Would a thread here help you, where people post ideas for maps you might draw one day?
Christopher West, your maps throughout the years have been the STRONGEST factor bringing me back to D&D time and again. Would you consider critiquing a map or two done by someone far less gifted? I did some maps for Dungeon a while ago and am working on some new ideas. I'd be forever grateful for some guidance!
I'd be happy to! Of course, my opinion is free, and some people say "you get what you pay for", so I don't know how useful it will be. :)
To all of you fellow Christopher West fans out there, the man is as good as his word. I sent him the map in question, and he provided me with a thorough, thoughtful, AMAZING critique that will VASTLY improve my final product!! He caught errors I missed altogether. He pointed out issues that made me whack my head and say, "Now, why didn't I think of that?"
Well, because I'm not Christopher West!
Thank you, THANK YOU, Mr. West!!
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This brings up the question: How to you get the ideas for MoM? Does paizo tell you what they want, or do you just show them what you came up with?!
Would a thread here help you, where people post ideas for maps you might draw one day?
Usually I just create whatever springs to mind when I sit down to design one, but occasionally Paizo suggests a theme or makes a specific request that fits well with the content of the issue. (The Sewer Stronghold, for example). More often than not, the map is a surprise to even the Art Director until it appears in his mailbox. My goal is to keep impressing them a little more with each new map, since I'm a "quality over quantity" kind of guy.
While lists of map ideas can be fun, I tend to be a little wary of them because I'd hate to start subconsciously borrowing concepts from others or begin to depend on others for inspiration. I do read through such threads when I find them around here, but I don't actively seek them out. Usually I have more ideas than time to create them, but it's always fun to find out what the readers want.
For example, there was a lot of talk about ship maps leading up to the Savage Tide debut, and that put me in the mood to create a merchant caravel. It came out darker than I'd like (I wish I could go back and brighten it up) but I'm very proud of the Darkmaiden's Dance and plan to use it in my own game sometime.
I sent him the map in question, and he provided me with a thorough, thoughtful, AMAZING critique that will VASTLY improve my final product!!
Your final product didn't need much improving, but I'm glad I could help. :)
Mr. West--
As i have stated earlier in this thread, i am inspired by your work. i've been working in corel draw for about a year, and now feel i am getting the hang of it. i have been creating a few dungeons in your "style" just to see if i could do it and here is the result. note, i am not plagiarizing you or anything, i just wanted to see if i could emulate it, as it were. criticism is always good, and if it wouldn't be too much of an imposition of your time, perhaps a few words from you would help make this map a little better? i understand if it is a problem, if you don't have time, etc. thanks for many great adventures. your maps have done wonders in creating excellent settings for a lot of fun times in my campaign.
anyone else can give me ideas on how to make this map better as well. this isn't just open to Cristopher West here.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/terrainmonkey/wierdung1-1.jpg
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Looks pretty cool terrainmonkey! I like the floor texture and stair treatment, as well as the lighter stone wall effect used to define the edges of the rooms. One thing I'd do very differently is the floor grid; whenever possible in a D&D map, the walls and passages should try to conform to a 5' grid. There are exceptions, of course (cave walls, for example) but D&D gameplay benefits from a grid that fits to the walls.
Nice work!
Mr. West--
As i have stated earlier in this thread, i am inspired by your work. i've been working in corel draw for about a year, and now feel i am getting the hang of it. . . .[C]riticism is always good, and if it wouldn't be too much of an imposition of your time, perhaps a few words from you would help make this map a little better? . . . [A]nyone else can give me ideas on how to make this map better as well.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/terrainmonkey/wierdung1-1.jpg
Hey Terrainmonkey! That's one solid map! I like the rising and falling terrain particularly. Nicely done!
It's hard to find helpful suggestions on such solid work. Here's what I came up with after considerable scratching of my head.
The level of contrast in the floor's rocky terrain is, perhaps, a bit to extreme. The rugged floor obscures the lines representing the rise and fall of the ground. I think the overall map would be more clear if the floor's surface were a little less dramatic. As an example to consider, click here to go see Christopher West's rockin' red dragon lair . His ground surface looks sufficiently rugged without high contrast, and his lines indicating rise and fall of the terrain stand out clearly against this ground surface.
The only other aspect I think you might improve is the walls separating the ground from the open air of the rooms. To my tastes, the walls are a tad too close in color, value, and intensity to the floor. It's a close call, but I think the map might be stronger if the walls were simply a touch more different than the floor.
I've noticed that, in most of Christopher West's maps, he doesn't create "walls" in rooms that are natural caves. West brings the background "solid stone" pattern (or, in the case of your map, the black) right up to the edge of the floor and grid of internal rooms. The red dragon lair linked above is an example. On your map, in areas 11 to 17, you might bring the black background right up to the edge of the rooms.
Where there are true walls built within the stone, go ahead and represent those by walls, but make them look different than the floors. West does this (although often with a simple black line) in some of his maps. Check out "The House of Broken Minds" in DUNGEON issue 135. As distasteful as it is to point to my own work, click here to look at one of my maps. In this map, I tried drawing the walls in the "man-made" rooms (but not the natural cave areas) with something other than the background stone pattern. It's somewhat more confusing than simply bringing the background stone pattern up to the room's edges would have been. Christopher West's use of thick black lines is, perhaps, more elegant.
But these are nit-picks. It's a really nice job! Keep it up!
hey, ashenvale and Mr. West
Thanks for the ideas. i see what you mean about the lightness of the floor texture and the walls. oh well, back to the drawing pad. :)
i appreciate the response from you both. it is my hope one day to become as good as you guys and maybe see my maps in this magazine some day. thanks for the inspiration, and keep up the great work. it's always a refreshing sight to see those i respect on this forum answering questions and being so genial and helpful.
and what was i reading about Christopher west working with Lazz on a map of mystery? this is a great idea. perhaps a two part cave dungeon complex with multiple levels and traps galore, with maybe an underground town complex or one built into the side of a cliff face? i don't know. i'm just rambling now.
thanks again
While I have a number of ideas floating around in my head regarding the Town of Deepwatch, I've never fleshed it out in any published or written form. The map is a standalone piece for DMs to use as they wish.
In my mind, the Darkendeep is a lake so deep that its bottom is uncharted, possibly broadening out into a massive underground cavern larger than the town itself. Something vile and unfathomably dangerous once emerged here from the cold reaches below (destroying the old bridge in the process?) and was fought back at great cost. The Darkendale Keep was built to watch over the lake and guard against another emergence. Over time, as nothing else arose from the lake, the region became restful once more and the town of Deepwatch grew up around the lake to support the keep's garrison and enjoy its protection against the more mundane perils of the surrounding wilderness.
Deepwatch was a great map I used for a trading village I placed at the confluence of the Harp and Lyre rivers in Greyhawk, which we ran two or three adventures out of. It's a strange place, with a bardic college on the shore of the lake, the site of a nature festival lthat draws all sorts of wild elves to the ring of stones and mysterious lights coming from the island in the middle of the lake. The town was overflowing with refugees from the warring old kingdoms. There were submerged zombies spilling out of the lake and a detachment of Hextorites at the garrison -- not to mention evil slavers operating out of the trading post.
Thanks for the inspiration. That Map of Mystery was the source for a lot of fun.
I really like the latest map of mystery. Very cool academy.
My only question was about the two blue circles, each largely encased in stone in the NW and NE corner of the big room. Are these additional summoning circles, wells, or something else?
--Eric
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What I found very good for maps:
The maps in PTOLUS are nicely done. What I love about them is, that the area "around" the maps is not dark, but light brown or another light color. This makes them, well, more comfortable to look at and work with.
Too much black around rooms, caves or stuff is sometimes a bit oppressing...
I`ve always wanted to see some sort of contest or even just a compilation of what people have done with these amazing maps - Every time I see a Map of Mystery, my head spins and I end up crafting a little short-form idea (or two or three) in my journal-of-unending-and-rarely-actually-used ideas for gaming sessions.
Even off the radar from a more professionally published or organized standpoint, the Maps of Mystery are such great idea sparkers - would that be an option: a kind of pseudo-contest or collection (ie; no real prizes, heh) where people keyed in the details or mini-session adventures or one-night adventures inspired by the MoMs?
Or am I just being unrealistic? I1d love to see what other people did with the seeds Mr. West planted.
One of the best games I ever ran was in the village of Deepwatch, that map is so evocative I could launch athousand campaigns from that town.
I totally had the idea of something unspeakable and of madness living within the darkest parts of the lake.
In any case, love the maps and keep up the awesome work.
I don't think I've ever had this many people agree with me ;)
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I don't think I've ever had this many people agree with me ;)
Farewell2kings, I dont think you can go far wrong when complimenting Maps of Mystery or Christopher West's work in general!
As a latecomer to this thread, let me just add my praise for Mr West's work to the chorus. The Maps of Mystery are a huge inspiration to me (especially when my group de-rails the planned adventure and heads off the map, and I need a map and quick adventure idea fast) and certainly a part of what I love about Dungeon mag.
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I really like the latest map of mystery. Very cool academy.
My only question was about the two blue circles, each largely encased in stone in the NW and NE corner of the big room. Are these additional summoning circles, wells, or something else?
They're the "mystery" part in "Map of Mystery." ;-)
I honestly had no specific intention for them; I just thought they'd look cool. That said, I would suggest any of the following:
- Magical practice chambers for newer member of the order to perfect their techniques.
- Scrying chambers that members can use to keep an eye on their holdings or interests outside of this secret sanctuary.
- Antimagic "showers" used to cleanse away any active spell effects that might be affecting members when they portal into the Hall.
- Privvies. (Even spellcasters have to do their business somewhere.)
I just received issue 141 of Dungeon and I have to say that the Drakebourn Sanctum is excellent!
But I have to know whether we will be seeing any of the other locations in the Forsaken Rift in the near future? One of the cities, perhaps?
Good question!
I'm currently working on a short series of single-page linked maps similar in concept to the 'Dungeon's Delve' maps from a couple of years ago, but I'd still like to return to the Forsaken Rift again someday.
It's possible you might even see an adventure set within the Rift at some point, which could mean several more maps at once; I proposed the idea in a general way to the editorial staff, and they seemed very interested. Now I just need to find time to formalize a more specific query and actually write such an adventure.
As for the cities...it's been a long while since I created a city map, so it seems like it might be time to buckle down and create a new one. (They can be a pain to design, but they're usually worth the extra effort.) A city from the Forsaken Rift would be a logical choice, especially if the adventure gets a green light. My magic eight ball says "Outlook Good".
Thanks for the compliments and questions, folks! :)
okay, which issue is deepwatch from? it sounds like a great adventure.
okay, the drakeborn sanctum just became an outpost of a family of red dragons in my campaign. it is floating in the astral plane on an astral rock that used to be part of tunarath, (a city map designed by mr. west as well IIRC). it is also the home and trading center for the minions of this dragon family, a band of Duthka'gith being led by a high priest of the dragon god of fire. The entire thing is lorded over by the king, Korgax'goth the Arcane. This is an ancient half fiend red dragon/sorcerer 7 with 20 levels of sorcerer ability and a staff of quickened maximized spells.
The buildings on it actually are trading posts for renegade githyanki looking for "special" merchandise that cannot be found anywhere else. things like gold dragon hide armor and expensive magical weapons with abilities such as bane, flame burst, and such.
currently the PCs IMC are gathering artifacts so they can eventually go there and fight him on his own turf.
there are also 4 other dragons from young adult to mature adult that are this dragon's children.
i'm also using the ship map from the latest dungeon to send them on an oversea voyage to an island that houses one of the pieces of the broken rod of Fraz-Urb-Lu's staff. So if anyone has an idea for an island, please let me know.
i also got the idea from a dragon magazine on Fraz-Urb-Lu from the map of hollow's heart that CW did. Mr. West, did you ever think you would have such an impact in your career on so many games and adventure sessions?
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The Town of Deepwatch was a two-page Map of Mystery from issue #103. (A very special issue to me, as it showcased a heap of my work across three different genres, including my feature article on the Millennium Falcon.)
I love what you did with the Drakebourn Sanctum! I was a little nervous about that one since I wasn't sure if the layout made enough sense in a purely overhead view. I had intended to include a cross section or front view of the Sanctum, and am still kicking myself that I didn't put one in.
i also got the idea from a dragon magazine on Fraz-Urb-Lu from the map of hollow's heart that CW did. Mr. West, did you ever think you would have such an impact in your career on so many games and adventure sessions?
No, I really did not expect that. I always hope that my work is useful or enjoyable to people, but once a map is done it tends to fall off my radar. Unless someone likes a map enough to write into the magazine or post here, I don't really get much feedback from players who use them in games, and it sure is gratifying to hear from folks who put them to good use. :)
Hey! Who's this red-cloaked dude? And what has he done with the REAL Christopher West?!
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I'm running an NPC Wizard with a look based on this artwork in my Age of Worms campaign, so when I saw it was available as an avatar here I decided to switch. :) I still like Gimble as an iconic gnome bard, but my mage Adnar has more meaning to me.
I originally expected Adnar Qel'Caezal to meet a violent death half way through 'The Whispering Cairn', but we're in the middle of the Mistmarsh in 'Encounter at Blackwall Keep', and he's still kicking out the damage. His odds of survival seem to increase with each level, so I'm starting to let myself get attached. :)
Yeah, sure, so YOU say, you suspicious-looking red-cloaked pretender!
*sepping carefully back, weapon poised, shouting into the surrounding, darkened woods*
DON'T WORRY, MR. WEST! WE KNOW YOU'RE OUT THERE! WE'LL FIND YOU! WE'LL NEVER STOP LOOKING!
(. . . if only you'd left a map . . . )