The editors have quite a bit to say about this here:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=172739
The topic has been moved to another thread though:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=173394
Creative Director
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James's attempt to sum things up:
It's true: there's no FR or Eberron adventures in issues #134 or #135 of Dungeon. We can only print what we recieve. We have a few writers that we've worked with extensively before from whom we have solicited more Forgotten Realms and Eberron adventures, but these folks only really have time to do 1-2 (if that) adventures per year... nowhere near the half-dozen we'd like to print for each campaign setting in a year.
In other words, if you're looking to get published in Dungeon, you'll increase your chances dramatically if you set your adventure in the Forgotten Realms or Eberron. Of course... your adventure ALSO has to be good to get accepted. :-)
James's attempt to sum things up:
It's true: there's no FR or Eberron adventures in issues #134 or #135 of Dungeon. We can only print what we recieve. We have a few writers that we've worked with extensively before from whom we have solicited more Forgotten Realms and Eberron adventures, but these folks only really have time to do 1-2 (if that) adventures per year... nowhere near the half-dozen we'd like to print for each campaign setting in a year.
In other words, if you're looking to get published in Dungeon, you'll increase your chances dramatically if you set your adventure in the Forgotten Realms or Eberron. Of course... your adventure ALSO has to be good to get accepted. :-)
I am trying to contain this on one board. There has been a great deal of discussion on the threads above.
To summarize it well, here is a quote from Jeremy Walker:
"More than a few of the FR or Eberron adventures we have publish started out as generic adventures in the proposal stage. When we saw that they worked particularly well for a specific campaign setting, we worked with the author to make that happen. "
Paizo can print more than what it receives.
Paizo can print more than what it receives.
I knew it.
Despite the long accepted canon that the Laws of Conversation of Printed Materials accurately describe reality, it has finally been proven, without a shadow of a doubt, that Theoretical Editorial Physics is alot more complicated, and counter-intuitive, than once believed.
If you use Tasaki's Quantum editing process, you will find that there is a possibility that all settings are already Eberron, and a gentle tweaking of quantum energies can mathematically alter the level of Eberron to probable (and observable) levels.
I admire your dilligence sir, and I'm sure there's a Nobel Prize in the works somewhere.
Paizo can print more than what it receives.I knew it.
Despite the long accepted canon that the Laws of Conversation of Printed Materials accurately describe reality, it has finally been proven, without a shadow of a doubt, that Theoretical Editorial Physics is alot more complicated, and counter-intuitive, than once believed.
If you use Tasaki's Quantum editing process, you will find that there is a possibility that all settings are already Eberron, and a gentle tweaking of quantum energies can mathematically alter the level of Eberron to probable (and observable) levels.
I admire your dilligence sir, and I'm sure there's a Nobel Prize in the works somewhere.
Schroedinger's lesser-known experiments (kitties always get the spotlight) already proved that all adventures in Dungeon are simultaneously Eberron, Forgotten Realms, AND generic until an outside agent opens the magazine and observes the table of contents. Therefore, if you didn't get what you wanted in this issue, it's your fault.
Of course, the Zen monks had beautiful koans about this idea centuries before Schroedinger began his work. Example:
"If a setting-specific adventure appears in the magazine, and you don't use it in your campaign... was it ever truly setting-specific at all?"
Schroedinger's lesser-known experiments (kitties always get the spotlight) already proved that all adventures in Dungeon are simultaneously Eberron, Forgotten Realms, AND generic until an outside agent opens the magazine and observes the table of contents. Therefore, if you didn't get what you wanted in this issue, it's your fault.
Nothing short of brilliant!
Takasi, it's Dungeons & Dragons, not Rakshasas & Warforged. Half the fun for me is translating printed adventures into Eberron. It let's me stretch my DM'ing muscles, learn my favorite campaign setting, and make the adventures my own.
They are D&D adventures, after all, and Eberron is part of D&D...
Anarch of Kitties
Dungeon 134 and 135 have no Forgotten Realms or Eberron content
So what?
For the love of St. Cuthbert don't cross post between ENworld and Paizo. Going from a white background website to a black and then back again...well lets just say I had to pull out my Braille keyboard to type this.
Takasi, my lawyer will be in touch.
it's the end of the world as we know it!
And i feel fine. ;)
Dungeon 134 and 135 have no Forgotten Realms or Eberron content
And I couldn't be happier. Well, I could. It could be ALL GREYHAWK ALL THE TIME!!
Hear hear.
To me, this is a non-issue, because I adapt every adventure, even the GH ones, to fit my campaign. You can't tell me that if you're a DM, you don't have the creativity to do the same.
The way I see it, there are six potential FR or Eberron adventures in 134 and 135, not none.
I don't really mind when there's nothing of the setting, since if you know what makes your setting different you can adapt it. Reading through the first issue in the Age of Worms, I already began thinking of adaptions - changing that gruff hairy guy whose name I forget into a shifter, adding in warforged miners, swapping some NPC levels out for NPC classes rather than PC classes, etc.
...and this is what is says in the Dungeon submission guidelines...
Quote:"Campaign Settings: The ideal DUNGEON adventure works in any campaign, regardless of the DM’s favored campaign setting. Accordingly, we favor adventures patterned after traditional sword & sorcery,the type of game exemplified by the three core rulebooks (the Player’s Handbook, DUNGEON MASTER’S
Guide, and Monster Manual). The fewer setting-specific details you include in your adventure, the more
useful the scenario will be to the majority of our readers. Try to confine your adventure to a relatively
small area; it’s far simpler for DMs to insert a town into their campaigns than an entire kingdom.
All generic adventures should conform to the campaign rules presented in the DUNGEON MASTER’S Guide
and use the same pantheon of deities presented in the core rules. The Player’s Handbook provides a list of
D&D deities; use this list instead of creating your own deities.
In addition to generic adventures, we also publish adventures set in the GREYHAWK, FORGOTTEN REALMS,
and EBERRON campaign settings, published by Wizards of the Coast. Such scenarios are published less
frequently than generic D&D adventures, and only when excellent adventures in these settings become
available.
...Paizo can print more than what it receives.
And the unrestrained, inflammatory accusations begin anew...
I just read the thread at
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=173394
What I saw was a single-minded attack on Dungeon and everyone defending Dungeon (which was the vast majority). The attacker rejected every single opposing point, no matter how reasonable or how many people held the opinion.
I see a pattern here... again.
Guess I will start up the creative juice and write an forgotten realms adventure for Dungeon.
I'm thinking it will be a high level adventure where the party journeys to the stonelands and enters an ediface known as Ao's shower, where they then discover that the last 20 years didn't happen and it was all a bad dream that Ao was having and he snaps out of it when he see's the adventurers in the shower.
Guess I will start up the creative juice and write an forgotten realms adventure for Dungeon.
I'm thinking it will be a high level adventure where the party journeys to the stonelands and enters an ediface known as Ao's shower, where they then discover that the last 20 years didn't happen and it was all a bad dream that Ao was having and he snaps out of it when he see's the adventurers in the shower.
The Time of Troubles didn't happen in my FR campaign; the whole magic dead areas and gods walking the world was not something I cared for.
Actually, all the criticism of Eberron on this thread and others is making me want to look at the setting myself. I read the Sharn HC and it's pretty cool.
Takasi's problem, I think, is that he wants Burger King and Paizo is a grocery store. You gotta burn that meat yourself to make it the way you want.
L O F'n L!
I'm personally boycotting Dungeon until I get more Birthright and Redsteel references.I may even post IN ALL CAPS, and at great length, should this otherwise reasonable demand not be granted.
You have been warned, editors of Dungeon...you have been warned.
ONE OF US! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
Actually, all the criticism of Eberron on this thread and others is making me want to look at the setting myself. I read the Sharn HC and it's pretty cool.
To me, this is a non-issue, because I adapt every adventure, even the GH ones, to fit my campaign. You can't tell me that if you're a DM, you don't have the creativity to do the same.
and yet, that seems to be the basis of his argument. it's too much work for every eberron DM out there to adapt every adventure to fit in with the as-printed eberron setting, so would the Paizo designers kindly do that for these poor beleaguered DMs. hey, if you don't have the time or knowledge to put that together, then hire someone to do it. if it cuts into your wordcount, who cares, it's not like you're losing anything important.
i think starting this thread to, i don't know what, get support? has backfired on takasi. as i suggested a week or two ago, he is still the lone voice crying out in the wilderness, and now not only is no one hearing him, but many are turning against him.
I just read the thread at
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=173394
What I saw was a single-minded attack on Dungeon and everyone defending Dungeon (which was the vast majority). The attacker rejected every single opposing point, no matter how reasonable or how many people held the opinion.
I see a pattern here... again.
i think takasi in this situation is a classic "i am right, and if you do not agree with me then you must be wrong." if 6 billion people on the planet disagreed with your point of view, then that just means we have 6 billion people who are wrong and only one who knows the Truth!
ONE OF US! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
Actually, all the criticism of Eberron on this thread and others is making me want to look at the setting myself. I read the Sharn HC and it's pretty cool.
I wouldn't go that far--I'm years from running an Eberron campaign, if ever, but I like to make up my own mind about things.
Dungeon 134 and 135 have no Forgotten Realms or Eberron content
Good lord, please don't start this again.
...You're the only one who seems to think this is a major issue.
...And given that Paizo must please the majority of the general public to survive, the more negative response you get on these boards (and others apparently), the deeper a grave you dig for the very point you're trying to make.
I am trying to contain this on one board.
then, why you throw chip?
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=615951
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=615953
Dungeon 134 and 135 have no Forgotten Realms or Eberron contentSo what?
Exactly what I was wondering... :-)
I would just like to stand up for all of the Eberron DM's who are not Takasi and say that we are just like the rest of you. We do our own legwork and do not start silly threads about magazine content because we are too lazy to actually DM. I've played for all of a decade, and have gone from Dragonlance to Planescape to Ravenloft to Greyhawk to FR to Eberron. Eberron fits for me best (just like all the rest did) and I have enjoyed transfering the AoWAP over to Eberron for my PC's. I wish Takasi could sit in on some of my planning sessions as I cackle madly to myself at the thought of the Dreaming Dark helping the PC's, or replacing the flesh golems in TCB with Warforged Titans...
Anyhoo, we (Eberron DM's) are not all like him.
Anarch of Baker-sville
I'm an unabashed fanboy of the Forgotten Realms. Having said this, though, I have a *very* strong preference for generic adventures. If they lean to Greyhawk, that's great - it's nostalgic for me, and it's a relatively generic setting that is very easily modifiable.
For whatever reason, I really dislike Eberron. I don't mind seeing Eberron-slanted adventures every now and then, because the editors do a great job of concentrating on the ideas for the adventure rather than making them deeply entrenched in a given setting.
Publishing "conversion" or "adaptation" notes for multiple settings for every generic adventure published is just plain silly, regardless of "crunch" or "fluff". That's clearly the job of the DM, and it's certainly not the mission of the magazine. To do so would waste print space, resources, and would suck up editorial time that is far better spent on other things related to the magazine.
If you need extra crunch or fluff... that's what WotC's setting supplements are for.
And for every person who doesnt renew, 2-3 people probably subscribe or renew because of this. Personally, I buy all my issues from my Friendly Local Gaming Store, helping to keep the one good store in 100 miles in buisness. Paizo has done an excellent job with the restructing of Dungeon over the last 2 years. Every issue has content that I use, and after completing a campaign in Kingdoms of Kalamar, It was nice to not to have setting specific adventures to draw from. Now, starting an AOW campaign, I chose to use the Realms to play in. The conversion guides are nice starting place, but I have added and changed alot.
If you are finding that there are not enough Realms, Eberon, or whatever adventures, try writing one and submitting it.
Just my 2 cp.
*whispers* one of us! one of us! one of us! *whispers*
I wouldn't go that far--I'm years from running an Eberron campaign, if ever, but I like to make up my own mind about things.
, it contributed to my not renewing my subscription, and an unknown number of other Realms and Eberron followers who are probably underrepresented on the fairly non-setting-focused paizo.com boards. Because only Wizards and Paizo can produce these adventures, Paizo can exploit that shortfall of supply, or it could if it got the submissions -- fake Realmsified so-called 'generic' modules are, I agree, pointless.
You cancelled your subscription because you're not getting enough spoonfeeding of FR or Eberron? Where else are you going to get 36 adventures for $40? Spend $40 on adventures from some other publisher and see how much "content" you get compared to Dungeon....especially "quality" content.
I see Dungeon as a recipe book I take to the kitchen, not as a source of instant fast food gratification. Maybe you don't have time to to "any" conversion work on adventures because you're so super busy, but I think the real cause of frustration for Takasi and the others who are mad about the lack of specific campaign adventures lies elsewhere.
Purely speculative here, but I think Takasi and some others are in that category of DM's for whom pre-written adventures are not suitable anytime. There's nothing wrong with that, but trying to create a "controversy" about it is pointless, IMO.
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I'm a Dungeon subscriber and a Forgotten Realms DM. I think the current level of setting-specific material is about right. My current campaign is based mainly in the Dalelands and Cormyr, so adventures like 'Woe to Mistledale' and 'The Door From Everywhere' are wonderful. However, an adventure set elsewhere in the Realms takes just as much work to fit into my campaign as a generic adventure does, if not more.
The only stuff I won't use is Eberron, as the setting-specific details tend to take too much effort to remove, making it more like 'hard work', rather than 'fun'. I'm sure a fair few Eberron DMs think the same of the FR adventures.
I didn't cancel it, I let it lapse. I agree, Dungeon is a terrific bargain, and I still buy single issues when I like the look of the adventures in them.
Personally, if you want to know, I want to see more Realms and Greyhawk adventures in Dungeon because I love those settings and enjoy reading and, less often, DMing scenarios set in them. Call that 'spoonfeeding' if you must. Adventures are by their nature more like prepared food than ingredients.
Fair enough....it's just a theory of mine as to why someone would go to such great lengths as to call attention to 134 and 135 on three seperate forums.
Dungeon 134 and 135 have no Forgotten Realms or Eberron contentAnd I couldn't be happier. Well, I could. It could be ALL GREYHAWK ALL THE TIME!!
But, hey, I'll just have to revel in my satisfaction with the Dungeon being at the 'Close to Overflowing' level. Sigh.
As much as I love the "Classic Greyhawk" adventures for the ease of use in my homebrew campaign (since it's heavily based on Greyhawk lore), I do enjoy the occasional challenge of converting an Eberron or Realms adventure to suit my campaign.
Unfortunately, I don't have as much leisure time to devote to conversions as I'd like to have, so the Classic Greyhawk and generic settings work best for me.
That said, I think all of the settings are of top quality and that each holds appeal to some people more than others. But when you take it all down to the bare bones it's all Official D&D, and after that it's up to the individual as to whether or not it fits in with what they're running.
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I don't mind the fact that Dungeon doesn't have any Forgotten Realms or Eberron content in these two issues. I also prefer generic adventures. I can accept a few issues each year (six of each isn't too much, but I'd probably prefer four).
As for the generic adventures, I don't think they need a sidebar for adapting them to different settings. I agree with the Dungeon staff that a truly generic adventure is "self-contained" and can be dropped into any setting with little or no change.
Whatever cosmetic changes are required are the perview of the DM. If they aren't familiar enough with the setting to choose a suitable location, I'd argue that they'd be better off using a "homebrew" setting that may be based upon one of the published setting.
If you are finding that there are not enough Realms, Eberon, or whatever adventures, try writing one and submitting it.
Isn't this how R.Salvatore bcame the leading purveyer of Forgotten Realms literature? I heard he was stuck in New England during the summer and it rained and and rained and he ran out of books to read, so his wife told him to write one himself.
Moral of the story, Takashi should stop spamming the internet with posts and use that energy to creating and submitting Ebberon adventures to Dungeon. Judging from the verbosity of his posts if he put that energy to creative tasks he'd probibly have produced several dozen adventures by now.
Dungeon 134 and 135 have no Forgotten Realms or Eberron content
Ok, I about done. Here is your crying towel, now build a bridge and get over it! No Eberron or FR content? Poor baby. Gods forbid you actually have to do a little work to run a game. Last time I checked, Eberron and FR were getting a new core book once a month whether we need one or not, so instead of b+&*!ing about what is being put out on Dungeon, how about you get off you backside and write your own adventures?
I like that the games in Dungeon are generic (or GH) because not only do I run FR, but I run my own world. I pick up an article and adjust it a little, and boom, it goes right into my world.As far as you not wanting to drag this topic out into another thread, Bull$#!+ ! If that was the case, you would never have started a new post. It feels like picking a scab. Stop it.
Takashi should stop spamming the internet with posts and use that energy to creating and submitting Ebberon adventures to Dungeon.
i've seen people suggesting that very thing in the enworld thread(s?), but i haven't seen him respond to such comments.
Yep, that's exactly what I posted on ENWorld.
The various threads started by Takasi on the present topic just make me think that those who cares so much for a specific setting would be better off if they were using their time and energy in preparing submissions for Paizo and stop whinning.
My only submission ever to Dungeon (rejected) was a FR adventure set in Chondath and I just feel that I have not tried hard enough since then. So, I'll stop surfing the Boards so often and will go back to my desk and try to put something good together! ("no passive voice, no passive voice...")
Bocklin
Takashi should stop spamming the internet with posts and use that energy to creating and submitting Ebberon adventures to Dungeon.i've seen people suggesting that very thing in the enworld thread(s?), but i haven't seen him respond to such comments.
I think that if people would stop replying to his posts that it would do wonders for making him stop. It's been enough to make me want to create a website for fan conversions to Eberron. =)
Wow. I mean, wow. I actually went through the trouble of reading ALL of the posts from the threads mentioned and my brain hurts. It vividly reminded me of my experiences in customer service when I am trying to explain company policy to a customer who does not understand it nor the idea behind serving to the largest audience of their customer base.
If sales are any indicators, and they are by far the most important one, then Paizo is doing very well with how they are currently managing Dungeon magazine. Granted, there is always room for improvement in ANYTHING but there is also the basic business rule of sticking to what sells. After all, if the magazine does not sell then it will eventually stop being published and that means no more published adventures for us (at least until someone else starts a new magazine). That being said, I have seen the Paizo staff take occasional changes in the hopes of getting a 'best-seller,' as it were. Like Maure Castle, for example, or the Githyanki Invasion. The Paizo staff will continue to make exceptions to the rule if they think it will be a hit. You win some, you lose some, but the goal is win far more often than you lose.
One thing I want to point out is this: if a DM/GM cannot bother to excercise his creativity by simply modifying generic adventures to fit his/her campaign, then why are you a DM/GM? The role of DM/GM requires work and creativity. You are a story-teller and sometimes you got to change things around to tell a better story for your players. Remember, the Paizo staff do not know you and your players personally. You do! That's why generic adventures are generic.
If a given generic adventure is too much trouble for you to modify to suit your own tastes, then do not use it. IF you like the adventure enough then you would put in the effort to modify it for your purposes. It is not rocket science. It is called using common sense.
Apologies if I offended anyone who read my post.
CB Out.