Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Have you guys seen these?
I'm interested in your thoughts, as DMs, on using a product like this.
Thanks!
--Erik Mona
I run my games online so they're basically irrelevant to me, unless I felt like scanning them. But having to buy them in randomized packets like ccg cards is a huge, enormous, gigantic disincentive. If you could just buy a whole set right out for $15-$20 it'd be much less of a waste of money.
I like the illustrations but I don't find the prospect of using them attractive.
I've played D&D for 26 years and have never felt a need to do anymore than describe to a player what they have found and let the player form his own image in his head. For me and the players I have played with, it's all about imagination.
Anyway, my players would just lose them and then say, "What the heck! I wrote it down didn't I?"
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Have you guys seen these?
I'm interested in your thoughts, as DMs, on using a product like this.
Thanks!
--Erik Mona
Well, I use them for years now. Not the PAIZO-ones, but my own. I also asked (years back) in a letter to WotC AND PAIZO, if such a thing would be a good idea to print, but never received an answer - stolen the idea, heh?! ;) (Just kidding).
To one nice thing about those cards (I haven't seen the PAIZO-cards yet) is, that you'll never have an item "doubled", because one player was lending an item to another and both kept them on ther carachter-sheets. Now they just hand-over the card (I had ones for potions as well).
The other, almost odd thing - Once, a player of mine didn't want to take a better magical sword, because the picture of this +1 sword just fitted better to his pc.
On "my cards" I didn't write down if an item was magic or not, but once it has been identified as magical, little * was written on the card, and the properties were written on the backside of it!
All in all, I am very happy (as DM) with those cards and as soon as they are available here in germany, I will have a look at the "official ones"!
Just imagine how your players would look like, if you would throw the whole "dragon hoard" in the table in front of them to let them browse the itmes...
edited: Just have realized the link in Eriks post! Yep, they look cool and I hope they are available here soon!
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Have you guys seen these?
I'm interested in your thoughts, as DMs, on using a product like this.
Thanks!
--Erik Mona
I think they are a great Idea and the art work is beautiful, but like I have said in another post I am not that happy about buying
them in random packs in the next sets after the first. I would prefer to buy them in full complete Decks, other then that it is agreat product. I would definitely use them in my games.
-Dragnmoon
Where do you guys see that this is randomized? This does not say or show anywhere. Am I blind?
You buy the pack and get the 54 cards listed there. That's it.
edit: okay, I see that the expansion packs are randomized. That does not seem to make much sense to me either, but I guess that those who want to use this type of props should be set for 80% of the cases with the non-random basic pack.
Bocklin
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...but like I have said in another post I am not that happy about buying
them in random packs in the next sets after the first. I would prefer to buy them in full complete Decks, other then that it is a
great product. I would definitely use them in my games.-Dragnmoon
Oh man, I haven't seen that! This su*#s!!! The same problem as with the minis!
In this case, I don't care if they are available here or not - I won't buy them, as I haven't bought the minis. What's up with this collector's thing?! The majority of us players is old enough that we don't want to collect rare or unique cards. Just make them all available in one package and we buy it.Another random-buy or not - than it's a clear NO!!!
Can't tell you all how I hate this random-collecting crap!!!!!
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Oh man, I haven't seen that! This su*#s!!! The same problem as with the minis!
In this case, I don't care if they are available here or not - I won't buy them, as I haven't bought the minis. What's up with this collector's thing?! The majority of us players is old enough that we don't want to collect rare or unique cards. Just make them all available in one package and we buy it.
Another random-buy or not - than it's a clear NO!!!
Can't tell you all how I hate this random-collecting crap!!!!!
Let make something clear to you guys about the random cards in the other sets (1st set is not random).
Yes they are going to sell the cards in booster packs with 10 cards and 1 foil card so to get all 110 cards you will need to buy many booster packs at $3.49 a pack, but there are no rare cards all cards are as common as any other, but still random therefore I am still not happy about it, but it could be worse, and they are still usefull if you can get over the random booster pack idea.
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I think companies do an evaluation like this:
"If we make random booster packs we can get consumers to pay 60% more for the item then if we just package them up in a set. But won't that P.O. a bunch of consumers? Yeah, but only 35%. Looks like a 25% higher profit to us then! Screw the others who don't buy into the booster packs."
I am 35 yrs old with alot of disposable income. Why is all this crap geared towards Yu-gi-oh collectors and whatnot. I have way more cash than a teenager and will hand it over for a decent product. I preordered 2 "starter decks" of 54 cards each. I will never buy a booster pack. Booster packs are for children in school to "collect 'em all". I am an adult and would appreciate if products made in a market consisting of a majority of older people (25-45) were geared towards our interests and mindset.
I have the money. If you want it treat me like an adult and not some teeny-bopper.
FH
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I think companies do an evaluation like this:
"If we make random booster packs we can get consumers to pay 60% more for the item then if we just package them up in a set. But won't that P.O. a bunch of consumers? Yeah, but only 35%. Looks like a 25% higher profit to us then! Screw the others who don't buy into the booster packs."
I am 35 yrs old with alot of disposable income. Why is all this crap geared towards Yu-gi-oh collectors and whatnot. I have way more cash than a teenager and will hand it over for a decent product. I preordered 2 "starter decks" of 54 cards each. I will never buy a booster pack. Booster packs are for children in school to "collect 'em all". I am an adult and would appreciate if products made in a market consisting of a majority of older people (25-45) were geared towards our interests and mindset.I have the money. If you want it treat me like an adult and not some teeny-bopper.
FH
That nailed it!!!
I am with you.
I think companies do an evaluation like this:
"If we make random booster packs we can get consumers to pay 60% more for the item then if we just package them up in a set. But won't that P.O. a bunch of consumers? Yeah, but only 35%. Looks like a 25% higher profit to us then! Screw the others who don't buy into the booster packs."
I am 35 yrs old with alot of disposable income. Why is all this crap geared towards Yu-gi-oh collectors and whatnot. I have way more cash than a teenager and will hand it over for a decent product. I preordered 2 "starter decks" of 54 cards each. I will never buy a booster pack. Booster packs are for children in school to "collect 'em all". I am an adult and would appreciate if products made in a market consisting of a majority of older people (25-45) were geared towards our interests and mindset.I have the money. If you want it treat me like an adult and not some teeny-bopper.
FH
I won't buy them anyway but I've got to agree with FH. I am also 35 and have money which can be enticed from me for the right product.
I bought a few of the minis just to have something to put on the battle mat. If I were sure of what was in the box, I would have definitely bought all of them. I note you sell them separately but in my mind the prices are not right for the product. I have money to spend but I'm not a fool.
Some of your marketing team must start to recognise the spending power of the aging gamer. I can't begin to count the number of times I have read on these boards that many gamers here have been playing for over 20 years. That means the stage of life we are at means we are accumulating wealth.
Your marketing team need to tap into this.
I tend to look at these things a bit differently, I guess. If the Company in question wants to go with a certain business model, then it's up to me (and my wallet) whether or not I'm going to buy into that model.
I am 33 years old, I have limited funds budgeted aside specifically for RPG products, and I still love to buy RPG products that will help my D&D experience. Randomized miniatures? I've got um, and I tend to buy them by the case and then attack eBay for the ones I didn't get but still want. Personally, I think that the random mini thing is crap compared to the 'old' way of just finding the metal mini you wanted, buying as many as you needed and painting them. However, it's also a lot cooler to not have to pay $4 per mini, even if I get some stuff that I won't use right away.
The same can be said of these upcoming randomized packs of item cards. If I spend $4 on a pack of 11 cards, and I get a good mix of stuff, then that will enhance my game - if only that now I can see what everyone has without asking to see their sheet. For the players, it's something they can touch - like a miniature avatar for their character, or a battlemap with walls drawn on it, or the highly useful scenery tokens that used to come in Dragon mag. Sure I could make them up myself, and I have made props in the past for my game to enhance the experience for us all, but if I can get artist quality pictures, in color, and can still customize them as I see fit without taking up time that I would normally need to prepare for the gaming session... Well, I'll gladly spend a few bucks on that resource.
I've already pre-ordered the first deck and intend to get boosters as they become available, but probably in smaller numbers.
A Question for the Paizo staff: The mix in the initial pack seems to be good. I've read the likely mixture of subsequent booster packs and understand that there are not 'rare' cards, but there is an overabundance of misc magic items in D&D and other games. Rings, rods, staves, and especially scrolls, potions and wands are all pretty interchangeable, but what about earrings, hats, musical instruments, ioun stones, gems, figurines of wonderous power, instant fortresses, slippers, necklaces, etc? I'd like to know if you've got plans for these and would like a list of what's in each pack when it becomes available, if at all possible.
Thanks!
Celric
It's a novel idea and appeals to card traders who like to shop & trade for cards they need, but trading blank item cards seems doofy to me; as a DM, the appeal of listing items on cards for purposes of tracking ownership is nice, but players who are used to carrying their sheet (and everything on it) as a single page might not like the idea of keeping their characters in an envelope with a pile of cards and/or risk losing powerful magic items by losing the associated card.
"My dog ate my Staff of Power, honest!"
Personally, I haven't relied on many purchased materials for over 20 years, except for the Core books; I spend maybe $20/year, tops, on gaming materials - both out of necessity and my personal resistance to the commercial tricks that have become part of the industry. I doubt that I'll start anytime soon.
M
Of our regular 9 players, I could only see 1 of them purchasing the cards (impulsive buyer). I don't expect they'd appeal to the group.
The entire purpose for a non-collector gamer would be to have the item they require at their fingertips. Random packs would make this tough. I'd expect most people interested in these would appreciate a complete set, or at least the basics.
On the note of cards though, what I'd **LOVE** to see again are the adventure cards. In 2nd edition there were 2 sets of these; a few hundred little adventure ideas & sidequests each on an index sized card. These were terrific & produced some of our most memorable gaming moments, and I'd definitely purchase those in a 3.5 format! They made travel to & from adventure locations much more interesting.
Incidentally, they'd work better in randomized packs too than the item cards (imho).
Bring back the Deck of Random Encounters!
J-
Screw the others who don't buy into the booster packs."
Allow me to assure you that no one here at Paizo sat around a conference table and cackled madly with glee screaming to the ceiling "We're gonna screw the gamers!".
Our current business model on this product line calls for one "starter" type set in the first quarter of the year followed by three booster expansions. You will have the opportunity every year to purchase a box set similiar to (if not the same) as Item Pack 1.
Just thought I'd make that clarification.
Hey, Jimmy - reading your post just reminded me of this box and I immediately jumped down into my cellar to search it. I found it and you're right - pretty good those cards are and a 3.5 version of them would be terrific!...
Bring back the Deck of Random Encounters!
J-
I agree - I used to use those cards all the time. They were nicely seperated into low-mid-high categories so if your party was low level, they should have been able to handle anything in the low range - even though some were much harder than others. Updating them to a 3.5 format would be quite a gaming aide.
I recently moved and left a game where the DM did something like this.
He would use a small picture of the magic item and a description and then the 8x11 sheet would also have a description of the magic items powers, who originally created it and any other exciting backstory you might learn about the item.
The really cool thing was that you would get the sheet when the magic item was identified but would get a second sheet that contained all the original info plus the history, only if you contacted a bard or sage to learn about the item.
Also, if you crafted an item or commissioned an item, that info would automatically be on the item's sheet. It was just really cool and like somebody said above, you also know you have the sheet and to lend it to another character, you have to give them the sheet.
Have you guys seen these?
I'm interested in your thoughts, as DMs, on using a product like this.
I really like the idea. I have been toying with doing this myself in my own chronicle, but my version is an index card with the appropriate stats listed on it. =)
I tend to have to agree with the randomization being an issue; I don't mind purchasing packs and keepin the ones I don't need, but I very much want the ability to purchase a card to indicate a specific item.
As a side thought, I would be very interested in themed orders similar to the monster tokens on yore. For example, if you were to release a set of SC or AoW cards, that would be an instant sell for me.
When I'm purchasing items like this, I rank my purchases in the following order:
1. Immediate utility - can I use this in my game this weekend?
2. General utility - once I use it in my game this weekend, is it worth keeping?
3. Cool factor - would my players think this is neat?
4. Cost - is it worth what they are charging?
The item packs meet all those requirements for me. I plan on purchasing them the next time I have cash on hand. =)
The one question that I had when looking at these is how different are the individual cards?
The breastplate shown on the page has a leaf on it and the description on the back is the same.
So if there is three potion cards do they all look different?
I have generally used potions which looked the same to be the same potion with a few 'gotchas' mixed in. I can see having some cards that looked the same being okay but I certainly don't see the utility of having three breastplates with leaves on them being very useful. (Speaking about the random cards of course.)
If you think about it, this will actually be a case of your (the DM's) stack of notes ACTUALLY getting smaller..as the player's stacks get larger. That in itself makes me want to give them a try. As a long time Magic:tg & Hero clix that just had to draw the line at the D&D minis because of that 'random packaging' and rarity crap, I really like the idea of beaing actually able to purchase them by the set! and
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wow! I seriously thought the random thing was a joke at first and then I realized it isn't April 1st yet. FH put it best-- I am in my 30's and also have the money to throw around at good products so why aren't the companies taking full advantage of this fact. I hate it when I get hyped about something only to have the initial stoke reduced to ashes by the evil lord of randomization.
The one question that I had when looking at these is how different are the individual cards?
So if there is three potion cards do they all look different?
I have generally used potions which looked the same to be the same potion with a few 'gotchas' mixed in. I can see having some cards that looked the same being okay but I certainly don't see the utility of having three breastplates with leaves on them being very useful. (Speaking about the random cards of course.)
I have to say that I agree with you up to a point. I don't know that I would find several breastplates with a leaf motif on them to be very helpful, but I could find a way to incorporate them into the game. Maybe as matching armor for followers, or guardsmen on patrol in the wild, or just multiples of armor attached to the NPC cards I use.
Multiple potions, though, even the same picture of a potion, would have to be a good thing. If, for instance, you had a few potions sitting on a table and one of them was poisoned, you wouldn't have to remember which one. Just give it a number and let the party member using it give you the card for the potion he drinks. No fuss, no issues. It's both sneaky AND non-arbitrary, which is really what every PC wants...
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Director of Game Design
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It should be noted that all of the images in a single set are different. There may be four potion cards in the first box, but all of them are different (with different matching descriptions).
The second set has another additional 18 potion cards, four of those being the four from the first set, the other 14 being brand new potion cards with new images and descriptions.
We did this so that you could get the duplicate potion cards if you wanted but not be forced to get 8 copies of the same breastplate everytime you need to buy a new deck.
Jason Bulmahn
It should be noted that all of the images in a single set are different. There may be four potion cards in the first box, but all of them are different (with different matching descriptions).
The second set has another additional 18 potion cards, four of those being the four from the first set, the other 14 being brand new potion cards with new images and descriptions.
We did this so that you could get the duplicate potion cards if you wanted but not be forced to get 8 copies of the same breastplate everytime you need to buy a new deck.
Jason Bulmahn
Wow! Thanks, Jason. Tell us more...
Please tell us that the first booster set's artwork is finished and you are ready to post some of the cards' pictures to whet our appetite. Or, better yet (well, not really better) you could tell me if all the potions are going to look like an alchemist's beaker set - not that I really mind because the one shown looks great... It's just that potions to me are (I think) about an ounce of liquid like a vial of holy water. The one pictured looks like it was meant to hold waaay more then that. Sure, it's nit-picky, but answers to your future products in the form of pictures or a thousand word essay are what I'm after. And if you haven't the time for the essay, I'll gladly take the picture in a good faith trade :)
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Have you guys seen these?
I'm interested in your thoughts, as DMs, on using a product like this.
Thanks!--Erik Mona
I wonder, if PAIZO would've made something different (canceling the random-thing), if Erik had posted this earlier, means BEFORE Paizo decided on how to go about this product, and had received all those answers then...
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Some of your marketing team must start to recognise the spending power of the aging gamer. I can't begin to count the number of times I have read on these boards that many gamers here have been playing for over 20 years. That means the stage of life we are at means we are accumulating wealth.Your marketing team need to tap into this.
You mean like with a $60 hardcover book or $40 magazine subscriptions?
The booster packs are our lowest price-point item. I appreciate that many of you have lots of disposable income, but that's certainly not true for all of our customers, and we want to make sure we're covering all our bases.
I suspect very strongly that GMs will be able to buy the single cards they need on Paizo.com at a fraction of the booster pack price, just as I am equally certain that we'll strongly consider selling these things as complete sets once the booster pack run has sold through.
We've never done anything like this before, so there's an element of trying a couple of different options to see which works best. We're starting the line with a "complete set," and view the boosters as a way to spice up that set.
Say you go into a game store with five dollars, whether you're a pizza-fed teenager or an aging Castle & Crusader. There's really not much for you to spend your money on at the store, since a book is going to run at least $10, and even a magazine is creeping into that territory. Miniatures? Forget about it.
Sure, you _could_ buy a pack of Magic cards, or something, but why not go for something that can enhance the game that got you into gaming in the first place?
--Erik
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...Say you go into a game store with five dollars, whether you're a pizza-fed teenager or an aging Castle & Crusader. There's really not much for you to spend your money on at the store, since a book is going to run at least $10, and even a magazine is creeping into that territory. Miniatures? Forget about it.
Sure, you _could_ buy a pack of Magic cards, or something, but why not go for something that can enhance the game that got you into gaming in the first place?
--Erik
Sure enough - but why spend those 5 bucks on random cards, and not on a, let's say potion-pack, sword-pack or armor-pack! That's not all in one, but at least it comes closer to the point of buying what you want and not hoping to have bought what you want.
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I would rather spend the $10 and get a deck with 54 cards then 11 cards for $4 which may not have what I need for the next session with my group. It's great for paizo who has now charged triple what the cards cost in a starter deck (- cost for the foil one), but I would rather buy a deck that I know what is in it. Almost everyone on this thread is complaining about the randomized boosters. Listen to us. I have ordered 2 starter decks. I will not ever buy a single booster pack because it is ridiculous to run around acting like a teenager trying to get my Green eyes blue dragon. I would buy 2-3 of each deck made if there were no boosters, but if I can't get certain cards without buying them individually on this site or in a booster pack, then I will not be buying anymore then the initial 2 decks that I have already preordered. I could throw money at the RPG industry equivalent to 10-15 teenagers per year. The problem is I won't stand for being treated like some CCG teenager who needs to run out every week and spend my allowance on 1 booster pack. For once it would be nice if the products I want didn't have some marketing gimmick attached to them that makes them almost worthless to a mature consumer.
FH
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Paizo has been the best thing to happen to D&D in ages, but I have a sneaking suspicion that randomized item cards(and other randomized role-playing aids) will be one of the only "mistakes" that will be remembered in the future. Not bad at all when compared to all the "mistakes" of previous editions of the game. The cards do look great though and I will definately be buying set one. Buying something for five dollars in the hobby shop is good for everyone, but it would be even better to buy a five dollar pack of item cards w/o worrying about doubles etc..
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The booster packs are our lowest price-point item. I appreciate that many of you have lots of disposable income, but that's certainly not true for all of our customers, and we want to make sure we're covering all our bases.
I suspect very strongly that GMs will be able to buy the single cards they need on Paizo.com at a fraction of the booster pack price, just as I am equally certain that we'll strongly consider selling these things as complete sets once the booster pack run has sold through....
If I have to buy individuals from a site I won't buy any. Especially when a Chimeara fig is $20+ dollar on the site now. By covering all your bases you are excluding alot of heavy-hitters from the game. Also if I have to wait until several monthes of boosters trickle into the market to be able to purchase a complete set then I just am not interested. Once again relegated to 2nd class citizen statis. Give us what we want, without the idiotic marketing ploys, and there will be many more happy customers who would be willing to throw money at you. I want this product but I refuse to run around buying up booster packs and hoping to get that "goggles" card, while I open up 15 booster packs at the kitchen table. Stop treating all your consumers like teenagers. Average Age threads have already shown that 25-45 is the age group with most of those in the 30 yr old range. All these 30 year old professors, professionals, and intellectual giants all have to run out and fight over BOOSTER PACKS!!!! It is just a stupid marketing strategy, but what is more stupid is clinging to it in the false belief that the strategy is sound as the people speak up to say diffently.
FH
Sure enough - but why spend those 5 bucks on random cards, and not on a, let's say potion-pack, sword-pack or armor-pack! That's not all in one, but at least it comes closer to the point of buying what you want and not hoping to have bought what you want.
The way I see it, in a given horde I might need, say, two potions, a sword, and a breastplate. Under the current system, I buy one random 5-dollar booster (*maybe* a second one, if I decide the art from the first pack doesn't fit with what I have planned). If they were organized by item type, I'd have to buy a minimum of 3 packs to get the same items. In that situation, randomization is more useful.
I also had never thought of using item cards until I joined Bulmahn's game... but as soon as I did I realized that it makes everything easier. If nothing else, having less eraser crumbs mixed in with the snacks every time someone uses a potion is enough of a reason for me to pick up a pack.
-James S.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Sure enough - but why spend those 5 bucks on random cards, and not on a, let's say potion-pack, sword-pack or armor-pack! That's not all in one, but at least it comes closer to the point of buying what you want and not hoping to have bought what you want.The way I see it, in a given horde I might need, say, two potions, a sword, and a breastplate. Under the current system, I buy one random 5-dollar booster (*maybe* a second one, if I decide the art from the first pack doesn't fit with what I have planned). If they were organized by item type, I'd have to buy a minimum of 3 packs to get the same items. In that situation, randomization is more useful.
Asking retailers to carry and maintain stock on several different SKUs simultaneously is also not likely to succeed.
-Vic.
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So eliminate the boosters and just make Decks, nobody seems to like the booster idea anyway.
If that proves to be the case, we undoubtedly will. If it doesn't, we won't. The wheels are already in motion, folks - what say we all sit back and see what happens?
So eliminate the boosters and just make Decks, nobody seems to like the booster idea anyway.FH
Actually, I don't mind the idea of booster packs of stuff I want. These are not collectable, from what I can tell anyway, and you don't even really need to buy them - much like all the supplimental rules from the RPG we all love and cherish. Maybe I'm just different in that I'm at least willing to give something a try before I bash it into the dirt. To that end, I would rather buy a $4 booster mini deck of the cards, see if they are useful, enhance the game at all, or are liked by my players, than spend more money on something that ultimately doesn't fly. It's a small price to pay, really, and if I don't like them, or the idea doesn't translate into action well, then I'm only out a few dollars and I can give them away to another group that can make use of them.
I personally don't see the harm in letting something be attempted and then if it doesn't work the way the manufacturer thought it would, then they can either scrap the product or repackage it into something that will sell better. However, while the average age of the posters on this message board is probably somewhere around 30, I know many, many gamers that fall outside the bracket of 25-35. Many are power gamers, munchkins, LARP'ers, SCAdians. Some might not have access to a PC that goes online (like a kid that has parents that care), some might have inherited all their old books from a parent. Whatever their story, they are a non-vocal legion of RPGers that do buy stuff randomized. Just look at the sales of the plastic D&D minis for conformation. Randomized is not a 'bad' thing necessarily. It might be less good for some people personally, but to others it is the way things are done now and they have accepted it. But accept it or not, the business aspect of doing just the booster packs this way does make sense.
I like the sound of this much better than what it seemed like before this post.
I'll certainly be picking up box set #1 when available, and box set #2 next year's Q1 when it comes out.
If I find myself in my FLGS flush with cash, I may just spend ~$5 on a booster a few times during the year when Q1 seems far away.
Screw the others who don't buy into the booster packs."Allow me to assure you that no one here at Paizo sat around a conference table and cackled madly with glee screaming to the ceiling "We're gonna screw the gamers!".
Our current business model on this product line calls for one "starter" type set in the first quarter of the year followed by three booster expansions. You will have the opportunity every year to purchase a box set similiar to (if not the same) as Item Pack 1.
Just thought I'd make that clarification.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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If I encounter them in a hobby store, I may give them a chance. I can't say that I am personally offended by the random booster thing. What makes minatures/magic cards/etc a pain is the different rarity levels. The chimera isn't expensive just because it is cool, it is expensive because it is (I assume) more rare. Unless Paizo implements rarity into this system, I don't think it will be a problem.
(Come to think of it though, a rarity system might not be bad if it put items that were less common at the higher rarity. I can't imagine any gaming table needing more than one trident card for example.)
I would be more likely to purchase the product if it were themed to the latest adventure path. I'm not saying to put on the packaging "Age of Worms - Package One" because that would detract from the generic nature of the product. Rather, what I would like is if the cards included, oh say, a certain circlet found in the adventure path.
One last comment - is the random distrbution actually random, or for each pack do you distribute say, 2-4 potions, 1-2 suits of armor, 1-3 weapons, and the remainder miscellaneous? That seems like it might be a good system in that you would get a good variety of items and also have an idea of what you are going to get.
The idea of having a boosters with say, all armor, strikes me as terrible. An average treasure hoarde has a variety of items, and I would be much less inclined to buy a pack of only armor considering that I would use a maximum of maybe two cards from it.
I think I'd prefer a CD-ROM of printable images or PDFs, which would allow me to print them as I needed them.
They wouldn't need to be double-sided since I would actually have more space to write additional descriptions and effects.
I'm still tempted to try it. I might just buy one or two copies of Item Pack 1 and not deal with randomized packs. I like knowing what I'm getting and I like getting what I need, not multiple copies of what I don't need at all.
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Director of Game Design
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While I cannot guarantee the contents of each booster, the number of cards in the set tell me that in each pack you should get.. roughly...
1 or 2 armor
2 or 3 weapons
2 potions
1 ring, staff, or rod
1 wand
1 scroll
2 miscellaneous items
Roughly. You might get a pack that is very scewed from this.. but hopefully that will be unlikely.
Jason Bulmahn
Average Age threads have already shown that 25-45 is the age group with most of those in the 30 yr old range. ...
FH
I'd just like to point out that, statistically speaking, those threads don't really prove anything about the average of a magazine reader. Instead, they show the average age of a magazine reader who also has access to the internet and who also felt the need to reply to those threads.
It's quite possible the two groups - contain similar enough data; it's more likely not true, though.
While I cannot guarantee the contents of each booster, the number of cards in the set tell me that in each pack you should get.. roughly...
1 or 2 armor
2 or 3 weapons
2 potions
1 ring, staff, or rod
1 wand
1 scroll
2 miscellaneous itemsRoughly. You might get a pack that is very scewed from this.. but hopefully that will be unlikely.
Jason Bulmahn
Like I said, I prefer to know that I'm buying exactly what I want.
And for laughs and a look at my sentiments toward boosters:
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=49
Don't worry, I'm satisfied with buying Item Pack 1. At least I know that if I need another ring, I'm getting one.
Say you go into a game store with five dollars, whether you're a pizza-fed teenager or an aging Castle & Crusader. There's really not much for you to spend your money on at the store, since a book is going to run at least $10, and even a magazine is creeping into that territory. Miniatures? Forget about it.
Actually, yes miniatures. I can buy a Reaper mini I'm interested in at that price point. My wife paints, so I'm all hooked up. ;)
Or I can take my five bucks and go buy a couple slices of pizza and a Coke. :D
It should be noted that all of the images in a single set are different. There may be four potion cards in the first box, but all of them are different (with different matching descriptions).
The second set has another additional 18 potion cards, four of those being the four from the first set, the other 14 being brand new potion cards with new images and descriptions.
We did this so that you could get the duplicate potion cards if you wanted but not be forced to get 8 copies of the same breastplate everytime you need to buy a new deck.
Jason Bulmahn
Cool, that's what I was thinking. I am already looking forward to the time I hand out the card that 'looks' like the "cure serious wounds" potion...
Okay, make your Fortitude save, that was Dark Reaver Blood. :)
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All in all I can say the following:
I might buy ItemPack 1. But as I am a dedicated D&D-Roleplayer (and it doesn't matter if I am 35 years or what I earn monthly) and not a randomized-booster-pack-collector of anything, I will not buy any of those following booster packs. Sorry, but this development of randomized RPG-aids is just an annoying thing to have. The product idea, however, rocks!
PS Stating that we can buy what we want/need on the internet is not an option, if I have to pay about 25 bucks or even more for a single mini.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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PS Stating that we can buy what we want/need on the internet is not an option, if I have to pay about 25 bucks or even more for a single mini.
I agree that the internet market is probably not an option, but for the opposite reason you suggest. The reason the minatures are $25 a pop is not because they are randomly distributed, it's because they are randomly distrubuted across different rarities. The problem is made worse by the fact that the monsters that most non-collectors want are the rarest. It is this intersection of demand and supply that creates high prices, not the distrubtion of the goods by itself.
So, if, as has been said above, Paizo does not distribute the cards in different rarities, the supply problem will not be as pronounced. And, if they go so far as to make the most popular items easily available, this will further increase supply.
The problem with an internet market is that the transaction cost of purchasing something on the internet is high. I'm not going to spend $.25 to buy a card if I have to pay $2 in shipping and handling. You can see the same effect in hobby stores, where the rare collectors cards are in binders but the commons are in a box that you have to dig through. Thus, because there are no chase rares, I don't know if an adequate secondary market will arise.
Finally, for all those saying "random cards are the suck, I should be able to purchase a fixed set of cards in a package," I have a business idea for you! You can tap into this large unserved market of older gamers with disposable income. How you ask? Simple! Buy a large quantity of item cards. Sort them into units (i.e. 12 armor cards or what have you). Then, resell them! If Paizo is ignoring this huge market of poorly served consumers, then why not show them! They'll be lining up around the corner as you serve their unmet desires.
So eliminate the boosters and just make Decks, nobody seems to like the booster idea anyway.
I'm going to assume that by "nobody" you're referring to an anecdotal sampling of the dozen or so folks discussing this product's merits in this thread. I would assert that's a poor number to use as a sample.
We've endeavored to provide an incredibly useful tool for GMs for their fantasy RPG. As Jason stated, the boosters will have a nice sampling of various items and regardless of their "random" nature will still be quite useful to the average GM.
All of this being said, we're not going to continue to make a product that does poorly. If, as you assert, the older gaming crowd dislikes our booster concept so much that we see poor sales I'd imagine we'd be quite keen on changing to a different model.
However, I don't believe this will be the case. Our model covers all your bases; you still get to buy a boxed set every year and you still get a wide swath of highly useable cards for your fantasy RPG in every booster.
We'll see how it plays out.
One final note: our largest single demographic is 18 to 34 year old males; they make up over 65% of our market. Folks in this age category outnumber the "over 35" category 3-to-1. Obviously, we're going to endeavor to provide a product that targets the largest swath of our demographic possible. If, as you state, we've failed to target the older buyers with our booster format would we be far from justified in doing so given the data above?
I assert no. But, as has been stated by many, let's just see what happens.
P.S. I appreciate everyone's comments. Insight and opinion from our customers is never bad. Keep 'em coming. :-)
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Chief Technical Officer
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I'm not going to spend $.25 to buy a card if I have to pay $2 in shipping and handling.
That's good, because we're not going to sell it to you. Our costs for processing your credit card make that strategy a loser for everyone. To counter this, some webstores have minimum orders; paizo.com just has a policy of "nothing under $.99".
We haven't really discussed this much yet, but *if* we sell loose cards, we'll probably end up selling them in preconfigured groups.
-Vic.
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Finally, for all those saying "random cards are the suck, I should be able to purchase a fixed set of cards in a package," I have a business idea for you! You can tap into this large unserved market of older gamers with disposable income. How you ask? Simple! Buy a large quantity of item cards. Sort them into units (i.e. 12 armor cards or what have you). Then, resell them! If Paizo is ignoring this huge market of poorly served consumers, then why not show them! They'll be lining up around the corner as you serve their unmet desires.
I was just thinking something along these very same lines. Well put. Of course, then one has to determine how to price these customized sets, how much to charge for shipping, and then send them out... =)