What caused the split between Allustan and Tenser / Manzorian?


Age of Worms Adventure Path

Shadow Lodge

Hi Everyone,

I was just wondering what caused the split between Allustan and Tenser (Manzorian)? There are hints here and there but nothing substantial.
I have a player playing a wizard apprenticed to Allustan and so the issue will most likely come up sooner or later. I was just wondering if:
a) There was an official/semi-official reason or
b) What other DMs have come up with regarding this (and Allustan in general).

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise


I haven´t read any official reason I could remember.
Looking for reasons, one look goes to alignment: Tenser is LG while Allustan is N. So it would be quite logical to assume philosophical differences between the two. Tenser fights actively against evil, while Allustan is perhaps more of a sage, collecting informations and willing to give them to the right people (I´d say his alignment should probably be N(G)).

Perhaps Allustans brother (Mayor Lanod Neff, IIRC) played a part in this. Mayor Neffs alignment is NE, not too far removed from Allustans N, but miles away from Tensers LG. So, some dispute between the two mages ended up with Tenser giving Allustan the choice between confronting his brother because of some misdeed or leaving Tenser (with Tenser being lawful, he probably won´t settle for a compromise.) And even for Allustan, who knows that his brother is rotten to the core, blood is thicker than water.

Just some ideas.

Stefan

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

I've been playing Allustan as being NG (to make him more of a fit for a party patron), so alignment alone wouldn't cut it. When in doubt, you can always say that the fight was over a woman and leave it at that. :)


At 60 or so, romantic jealousy isn't very becoming in Tenser--it's plausible, but doesn't really fit the "powerful but remote patron of good" role that T/M is playing in the campaign, IMO.

This is a point the writers have left vague, and I think they want, perhaps to leave room for individual DMs to come up with their own answers that fit their own campaigns. Also, it's not the sort of thing that either man would be forthcoming about.

My working hypothesis is that while Allustan has "good tendencies," he is much closer in philosophy to the Circle of Eight, whose prime directive is to maintain the balance, than he is to his former master, who has gotten more radically and forcefully LG as he ages. As an above poster noted, his blood ties to a brother who is selfish and corrupt may lead Allustan to see things less in black and white terms than Tenser does.

As for the incident that precipitated the break between the two--maybe Tenser tried to interfere with Lanod Neff's allies in the Free City, putting Allustan in a difficult position, or maybe one of Tenser's projects threatened his brother's position Diamond Lake somehow.

The Exchange

I had a terrible time explaining why Allustan would be so interested in the Cairn, yet exhibit no desire to accompany the party in its exploration. I changed Allustan to make him very old. That way he could say his adventuring days were over and he was 'retired'. He'll get involved in the Cairn again in an 'archaeologist' role in the opening scene of GoW. It also helped explain why he wanted an armed guard when venturing to BlackWall.

Of course, that doesn't help explain the split. When that question has come up, I've done exactly what Peruhain suggests, basically telling the PCs that Allustan is not interested in discussing his past falling out with Tenser. Ancient history and all that...


Stebehil wrote:

I haven´t read any official reason I could remember.

Looking for reasons, one look goes to alignment: Tenser is LG while Allustan is N. So it would be quite logical to assume philosophical differences between the two. Tenser fights actively against evil, while Allustan is perhaps more of a sage, collecting informations and willing to give them to the right people (I´d say his alignment should probably be N(G)).

Stefan

This is basically what I've used...or plan to, my group hasn't broached the topic with Allustan yet. IIRC, in "The Whispering Cairn" or the backdrop they made a passing reference to the falling out being over adventuring or something like that. I took it to mean, that Allustan wanted to take a less proactive role than Tenser. Why either would get hotheaded enough about it for Allustan to refuse to say Tenser's name for years is beyod me.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Herremann the Wise wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I was just wondering what caused the split between Allustan and Tenser (Manzorian)? There are hints here and there but nothing substantial.

It's wrapped up in the politics of the Circle of Eight, but the short strokes is that Tenser left Mordenkainen's "neutral" philosophy orgnaization and actively supported the "Good" forces on Greyhawk.

Those members of the Circle of Eight and their cohorts subscribing to the belief in the balance - and Allustan is one of them - treated Tenser as a pariah for that rift with Mordenkainen.


I haven't had to explain the split yet, but the explanation I've worked up in the event it occurs is this:

I envision less of a split between Tens and Allus themselves, but rather both becoming dissatisified with the Circle of Eight and its company, but at different times and circumstances.

Just because they both split with the Circle and its aims, doesn't mean they would themselves be chummy. More to the point, perhaps one (Tens) proposed a break, asking the other (Allus) to join him. At that point and time, Allus elected to stay. Tens would view that as a betrayal, if only Allus. didn't act decisively at that moment.

If Allus would later choose to leave the company of the Circle for his own reasons, it might be he still is unable to mend the original break with Tens.

The backstory in my game has more tension between Celeste and Tens. than is evident in the AoW, too. I thought Celeste, as an agent of Tens. was pretty much left out to dry in the Shackled City. (1) There has to be some resentment there; (2) Maybe Tens. is not so goody, goody as his stat bloc says he is and he still retains some yearning toward balance/neutrality.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Inappropriate touching...


To combine two ideas, maybe they both fell in love with Celeste and thats what caused the brake up? Or maybe Allustan fell in love with Celeste and Tenser told him not to persue it (cuz he knows she is an outsider but dident want to tell Allustan) and Allustan took that as Tenser meddling in his affiars and/or coveting Celeste?

Sorry for the typo´s english is not my first language...

Silver Crusade

well it could just be a simple matter of Allustan placing his family above what could've been a promising future with Tenser. or even more importantly, there may not even be an actual "rift" between the two. maybe Allustan is the archmage's eyes and ears in that region, but to best facilitate that goal, they came up with the "rift" in case anyone of substantial power and influence were to check up on him, they'd find out about it and be more inclined to either work with him or leave him be.

Silver Crusade

Look no further than the real world for a reason.

How many people/families carried out a feud that lasted for generations while not even remembering the (likely stupid) minor incident that started it?

All it takes is two hot-headed persons (as mages can be) that happened to be together at the wrong time.

It could be an academic dispute for instance. Maybe Allustan once had a pet theory which he thought would make him famous within intellectual circles of the Free City but which Tenser disproved in a condescending manner?


(some spoilers)

My solution to Allustan's split with the evil-fighting Manzorian (Tenser) was to make Allustan a good-hearted, bookish coward. This also explains why:

He is disinterested in exploring the Whispering Cairn until the PCs have cleared all the dangers (or so he thinks).

He wants to teleport for help instead of actively fighting the lizardfolk.

He hangs out in Diamond Lake during events leading up to the Age of Worms, even though he is a fairly high level wizard (for Eberron).

I also have Marzena (Blackwall Keep) tell the PCs that she and Allustan were fellow students under Manzorian back in the day. Allustan was the most talented, and Marzena had a thing for him at one point, but could not respect his lack of courage.

In my campaign, Allustan wants nothing more than to tend his garden, research what interests him, and watch over his wayward brother. It's a big deal for him to travel to the outskirts of the King's Forest (Mistmarsh) to visit Marzena when there are reports of increased Lizardfolk activity.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

How bout this - maybe it should have been Allustan's Floating Disc or Allustan's Transformation. Allustan did the bulk of the research for either spell but it went unrecognized and Tenser got the glory. Allustan has never forgiven him for it. It wouldn't be the first time someone who heads up a lab gets credit for no work and the poor sclepps are ignored.


Herremann the Wise wrote:
I was just wondering what caused the split between Allustan and Tenser (Manzorian)? ...

Tenser is a jerk, plain and simple.

In GH, Tenser is militantly LG with little tolerance for dissenting opinions. Allustan is N, perhaps more in line with the rest of the Circle of Eight -- not a formula for success.

It's not exactly in agreement with some AoW material, but it works for me.

Jack


Sebastian wrote:
Inappropriate touching...

Represent! No matter how many times I use Master-Apprentice mollestation humor in my camapigns it never gets old! Catholic school will do that to you...

Sovereign Court

Mortepierre wrote:
Look no further than the real world for a reason.

I would prefer a more fantastic reason for the dispute. Imagine Tenser telling Allustan, "I told you NEVER put a portable hole in a bag of holding!" Or perhaps said apprentice had an unfortunate incident involving bookworms. Then Allustan could tell the PC's about how much he REALLY hates worms...


Whatever the reason, I think it has something to do with the reasons Tenser left the Circle of the Eight. Allustan's neutral alignment and his less-than-proactive involvement in countering evil in the campaign seems to indicate where his priorities lie. Tenser has always been a champion of good and advocated using the Co8's resources to battle evil like Iuz and the Great Kingdom while Mordenkainen and most of the rest felt it was best to remain disinterested in the affairs of morality and make certain no single group gains too much power. I imagine Tenser/Manzorian and Allustan had a similar disagreement over the use of resources at the University of Magical Arts or something like that, with Tenser supporting a more active role in campaigns opposed to evil and Allustan heatedly disagreeing with such a "waste" of resources.


Allustan is a coward.
Manzorian collects magic items to not use them.
I'm going to have it be over a ring of regeneration that
Manzorian called dibs over.
Why didn't the module say he was Tenzer in Greyhawk?
Maybe he faked his death to avoid enemies.


My theory is that Allustan beat him one to many times in Dragonchess.

Or, maybe Tenser caught Allustan and Mordy playing Dragonchess during one of their regularly scheduled game times...you know how those nerdy high mages get.


Perhaps Tensor claimed to have created Dragonchess, but Allustan actually laid much of the foundation of the game. Lawyers got involved. Meanwhile Allustan creates a seperate game called Dungeonchess. Tempers flare and lawyers get rich, until a group fo Coastal wizards scoop in and buy up the rights for both games from the goonish wizards.


Here's the rules for Dragon Chess, if y'all want it (along with a bunch of other chess variants).


waltero wrote:
How bout this - maybe it should have been Allustan's Floating Disc or Allustan's Transformation. Allustan did the bulk of the research for either spell but it went unrecognized and Tenser got the glory. Allustan has never forgiven him for it. It wouldn't be the first time someone who heads up a lab gets credit for no work and the poor sclepps are ignored.

Well, the alignment/philosophy difference sounds about right to me, but then I'm not exactly current on my Greyhawk history...

But I like the sounds of this better, lol

You could have Allustan muttering about how it was actually his Floating Disc spell for days after the PCs ask him about the rift.

Or better yet, have him cast the spell on the way to somewhere with the party (Blackwall?) and then get all huffy when a PC asks him about his "TENSER'S floating disk".


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You got chocolate in my peanut butter!
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