Can anybody out there make this real for me?
This sounds like such a cool ability but I'm having trouble trying to imagine how it works. Lets say a high level Ranger is hiding at the side of forest path and snipes some passing orcs. The orcs turn around to see the culprit and start moving in to kill the Ranger. On her round the Ranger "Hides in Plain Sight". What does that mean? Does she just disappear like turning invisible?
I'd be sooo stoked to have this ability; but, as either a DM or a player I can't imagine how to describe this happening. I'm pretty sure I understand the game mechanics - its the story telling/role playing execution of the ability thats troubling me. There has to be some description that allows the players to suspend thier disbelief - HELP!!!
Cheers,
C.
See Lord of the Rings and the elven cloaks. That's at least how I picture it.
Can anybody out there make this real for me?
This sounds like such a cool ability but I'm having trouble trying to imagine how it works. Lets say a high level Ranger is hiding at the side of forest path and snipes some passing orcs. The orcs turn around to see the culprit and start moving in to kill the Ranger. On her round the Ranger "Hides in Plain Sight". What does that mean? Does she just disappear like turning invisible?
If you read the Spider-Queen series (Extinction, etc.), there is a shadowdancer in the party. I thought the descriptions of his powers being used where particularly well done.
On her round the Ranger "Hides in Plain Sight". What does that mean? Does she just disappear like turning invisible?
C.
Well Cernunos, I think I got it.
Have you ever played paintball in the woods? I have on quite a few occasions and this really happens:
You're under stress. You know they're out there. So you're eyes are looking (scanning) for anything that moves. The problem is, if the enemy isn't moving, you're eyes don't see it and you don't even realize that there is an enemy just standing there in front of a tree (in plain sight) merely twenty feet away.
I guess it helps when you have the right clothing too. In a paintball game, everyone is in camoflage attire.
Hope this example helps.
Ultradan
Ever see a deer in the forest? More specifically, ever see a deer where there absolutely was no deer a moment before? And then, as soon as it stops moving again and you blink, it's gone? Hide In Plain Sight works like that for me-- it's not invisibility, just really good camoflage that works so well that even if you're watching, you can still lose sight of something.
Yes I have played paint ball and yes I have seen a deer in forest. Great examples, thanks! Still, I have some trouble imagining how this great ability works when the target is being observed and then disappears. I like the "blink and you lose it" example because it happens all the time while, say, bird watching (darned little warblers). But people are really big and hard to lose track of "once you've spotted them". I totally get it when the target is already in place and you just overlook them (in paint ball I got "knifed" this way once - the guy had a paint ball in his hand and smacked me with it when I walked by). However, when the target moves and is being observed how do they hide. Typically you have to create a distraction (smoke stick, "Hey your shoe lace is untied", that sort of thing); but how does this work "while being observed"? It's a concept and description challenge I haven't been equal to yet.
Comments are great - more insights welcome!
Cheers,
C.
The descriptions of the ability is slightly different, depending on which class you're dealing with.
The ability granted to both the Assassin and Shadowdancer, for example, is Supernatural and requires them to be within 10 feet of a shadow aside from their own. So it's easy to think of them as tapping into the power of Shadow to cloak themselves from view. I personally envision it as shadowy tendrils reaching out to wrap around them right before they disappear.
The Ranger's ability, however, is Extraordinary and merely requires the character to be in some(any) sort of natural terrain. This, in most cases, fits in quite well with the whole camoflage thing. He moves in just the right way to abruptly blend in with the brush, or dips down into the tall grass, or is appropriately attired to take full advantage of the sundry shades of grays and brows in the dark of a cave. For those that such a method might not sit well with, make it a Supernatural ability and have it draw on the power of nature to cloak the Ranger from view. A whirl of some of the local foliage just as he fades from view.
Whatever the case, they have to move, as hiding happens as a part of movement. So they at least have to make a 5 foot step.
Hey!
In John Woo movies something always moves in front of the camera, very brief, then the hero has gone when the obstruction has passed.
There are loads of things flying around in a fight, arrows, bodies, spells (which flash) etc. Use one of these.
Also, in movies, a character's head always follow attacks for drama. Just watch something like 'House of Flying Daggers'. Stuff is always watched, spears, swords etc, as it narrowly misses. A character using the skill could work such an attack into his skill description as he uses it.
How cool a trademark can you make from that?
Peace,
tfad
<---[- *WOOSH*
*NINJA VANISH*
This sounds like such a cool ability but I'm having trouble trying to imagine how it works.
Watch the opening sequence of The Professional.
Really, this is one of those abilities that just isn't going to make sense. That's what makes it so cool. "One second he was there, and the next...he was GONE!" You just have to suspend your disbelief.
Director of Game Development
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This sounds like such a cool ability but I'm having trouble trying to imagine how it works.Watch the opening sequence of The Professional.
Really, this is one of those abilities that just isn't going to make sense. That's what makes it so cool. "One second he was there, and the next...he was GONE!" You just have to suspend your disbelief.
I think you nailed it as far as a non-natural, non-'shadow', gritty, city-type feel to the ability. The other explanations have been great too, but GOD I love that movie.
If you ever see "Shooter" "The Hunted" or "Jarhead" you have seen a few good examples of HiPS as well.
Don't think of your Ranger as being in an outfit of leathers and green linen when you use this, think of him as being in a Ghillie Suit and instead of his ability being like a magical tie to shadow, it is more like Special Forces training and discipline. I as the Ranger can strike you in the stomach with my sword and then in the split second it takes you to look down and assess the damage I have done, I can shift my position (5-foot step) and freeze, perfectly still becoming just another bush in the background.
The human eye is trained as we grow up to identify things based largely on shape and color. So if you break up the shape and change the colors of a thing, it can be near impossible to spot unless you devote a lot of energy to finding it.
Also read the Perception rules. If a character hides the opponent gets an immediate (free) perception check. If they don’t make it then they will have to actively search for the hidden character which is a move action. That description should show you the Perception check isn't as easy as just a quick scanning of the background.
A couple of good threads on HiPS:
A mechanical discussion of HiPS.
A more general discussion of HiPS.
Hide in Plain Sight is a great ability, but it won't guarantee you won't be seen after making an attack. I believe RaW says that if you try to hide after an attack then you do so at a -20 to your hide check. Hide in Plain Sight just means you get to make that attempt a lot easier, as opposed to jumping into a bush.
Hide in Plain Sight is a great ability, but it won't guarantee you won't be seen after making an attack. I believe RaW says that if you try to hide after an attack then you do so at a -20 to your hide check. Hide in Plain Sight just means you get to make that attempt a lot easier, as opposed to jumping into a bush.Actually, that isn't true at all. The only place that rule comes into play is in sniping, where your struggling to maintain your hidden position, rather than attacking and revealing yourself, then hiding again while you move.
Wow! If that's true, that's awesome! My 18th level rogue/shadowdancer just got a LOT more dangerous! Thanks, man!
Hide in Plain Sight is a great ability, but it won't guarantee you won't be seen after making an attack. I believe RaW says that if you try to hide after an attack then you do so at a -20 to your hide check. Hide in Plain Sight just means you get to make that attempt a lot easier, as opposed to jumping into a bush.
NO, you are thinking of the Sniping rules which are not what HiPS lets you do at all. This is debated heavily and in detail on THIS THREAD but I will hit a few of the highlights here.
You are referring to the Sniping rules presented as a subset of the Stealth rules. HiPS does not say "lets you use sniping rules" it says "lets you use Stealth," even while being observed and without anything to hide behind as long as you are meeting X requirements, it says nothing about extenuating circumstances or penalties to your check under any circumstances. You cannot apply the Sniping rules to someone in Melee using HiPS to Stealth as part of a movement. Sniping is ONLY for ranged attacks and you cannot ever move while using sniping rules because the -20 Stealth check to maintain an obscured location is a Move Action.
This and many other HiPS debates are talked about in detail at the link provided above.
EDIT:: I see this was already taken care of. Well at any rate, you should check out the link, the Shadowdancer in you will love it I'm sure.
*Manifests out of the shadows behind shadowlord* "Take a look, you've been ninja'd" *fades back into the darkness*
I see that. I will have to work faster next time.
In my quest to be thourough I overlooked the simplicity of:
Actually, that isn't true at all. The only place that rule comes into play is in sniping, where your struggling to maintain your hidden position, rather than attacking and revealing yourself, then hiding again while you move.
Can anybody out there make this real for me?
I just posted this in another tread, but I think this is relevant here as well.
Things can make more sense if you twist the definition of "hidden" a little bit. If instead of considering hidden as invisible, you consider hidden as "opponents cannot declare an attack against you", HiPS can make more sense without altering and mechanics itself.
The way I see it in some situation, opponents still see the hidden character, but for a reason or another, cannot declare an attack against him. Maybe the hidden character is moving a lot, maybe he's keeping to the opponent's dead angle, maybe he's kicking sand in his opponent's eyes; the result is still the same as being hidden.
A frustrated opponent is still granted the ability to swing "blindly" in the occupied space if his Perception happens to be greater than the "hidden" character's Stealth, with the normal 50% miss chance (or is it 50% damage now?)
anyhow, just saying that the word hidden may take a broad definition with minimal impact on the mechanics but a huge impact on suspension of disbelieve.