Back to From Hell
** spoiler omitted **
Or:
Omigod, never-mind all the magician stuff, Alan Moore's a hippy.
But yeah, removing all the stuff that makes Gull Gull rather than Jack the Ripper is a horrible decision. Of course this is the script that replaced "I made it all up, and it all came true anyway." with "I can haz psychic visionz!!"
Bitter? No, why?
Which is partly a roundabout way of saying: I felt that in the book, Marie Kelley just happened to survive by circumstance and luck. I don't recall there being anything that particularly set her apart from the other women (of course, that might have to do some with Eddie Campbell's art, which is awesome at some things, but character differentiation isn't always one of them!), unlike in the movie where it's all -----> this one's the survivor, look! she hasn't got any shiznit on her!<--------.
And is it just me, or is the role of the well-meaning, but ineffectual copper a leit-motif of his work? (Which I only bring up to segue into...)
Alan Moore, a hippie? Remember in V when the well-meaning but ineffectual copper goes to the concentration camp and DROPS ACID?
Or the well-meaning, but ineffectual coppers in The Watchmen reminiscing over a Grateful Dead album cover? (Aoxomoxoa, I think, I don't remember.)
Ironically, I can't think of any hippie law enforcement officers in Top 10, but, yeah, Moore is one of my all-time fave hippies. He even has two wives!
Spoiler
So, in addition to all the spells and magic items and, of course, the whole spell-casting system of our beloved Dungeons and Dragons in all of it's manifold forms, Jack Vance also gave fantasy role-playing it's first CE role model. Unfortunately, very few of the murderous warlocks, montebanks and blackguards infesting America's basements since 197- have lived up to the style, panache and wit of Cugel the Clever.
Wait, what? You're calling a character I enjoyed as much as Cugel Chaotic Evil? I think this requires fifty million threads on how alignment in a RP straightjacket that should be removed from the game! Seriously though, have you gotten to the IOUN stones yet? (Don't know why Vance always put it in caps, but he did.)
And look, can we not talk about Watchmen please? I just saw the director's cut and was disappointed all over again...
Cugel the Clever is the poster-boy for CE!
IOUN stones show up in Rhialto the Marvellous -- the collection with all the morally-bankrupt arch-magicians. If you think Cugel is CE, wait until you read Rhialto!
Sounds like you've read those more recently than I have, Kirth. (Think I pawned my copy to be honest.) Any idea why it's always in caps?
As for Cugel's alignment: "Just cause I'm CE doesn't mean I'm a monster." *bats eyes*
Still working on Stephenson, Lord Dice?
How's that kobolds book, Kirth?
Anyone else reading something?
1. Sounds like you've read those more recently than I have, Kirth.
2. Any idea why it's always in caps?
1. Just more often, probably. I'm a maniac Vance fan, as if you couldn't tell from my screen name...
2. I always got the impression that IOUN is an acronym, although I won't hazard a guess as to what the letters might stand for.
How's that kobolds book, Kirth?
Turned out to be a dog, frankly. DeCamp getting "cutesy" to the point where you want to throw up (I won't even dignify this with a spoiler):
The main character, finding himself in Fairyland, spends half the book as a frog, in love with a vole, before he gets turned back and then does a lot of flying around fighting a bunch of mooks thrown in just for the hell of it so he can save the world by touching three video-game posts.
I think that's a fairly accurate summary, anyway.
Just started on Pratt's Blue Star, though, and it looks really promising -- sort of a "what if Europe in the 1700s had witches but no gunpowder?" kind of thing. For those also confused about the title, the "Blue Star" is a gem, not a sun.
Finished The Tudors. It was a bit jarring to realize I'd hit a piece of history close to my usual interests that I hadn't actually revised my understanding of since the fables learned in high school. I knew Elizabeth was anti-Catholic and executed a fair number, but the degree to which she and her inner circle were consumed with paranoia about what amounted to loyal subjects in all but religion and how hard they worked to make Spain their archenemy when Phillip was far from interested in making an enemy of England is pretty impressive. And a bit pathetic.
Now starting Edith Hamilton's Mythology. She's not coming off so much as a prissy old aunt in the prose like she did when I was assigned to read her, but I have the contrast with Bullfinch who could have shat diamonds to inform me now.
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The main character, finding himself in Fairyland, spends half the book as a frog, in love with a vole, before he gets turned back and then does a lot of flying around fighting a bunch of mooks thrown in just for the hell of it so he can save the world by touching three video-game posts.
I think that's a fairly accurate summary, anyway.
You have a way, Kirth, of warning me away from books that compels me to go out and buy them.
[Adds Land of Unreason(?) and Blue Star to list]
She's not coming off so much as a prissy old aunt in the prose like she did when I was assigned to read her, but I have the contrast with Bullfinch who could have shat diamonds to inform me now.
I think I know what you're saying in this sentence, but I'm not quite sure.
As for Liz, well how loyal could those subjects be if they weren't willing to accept her royal diktats as religious truth? Seriously, though, I'd hazard a guess that at least 75% of all the monarchs who ever lived were pathetic.
And, oh, Samnell:
IIRC, you were plumbing Bulfinch for Arthurian stuff. I never read Hamilton, but I thought she did Greek stuff, so:
If you're looking for unprissy Greek stuff, I'd recommend Robert Graves (you can skip the footnotes which are awesome fun, but academically uncredible) and if you really want some pagan sexytime, read Ovid's The Metamorphoses. Ovid jumps around from story to story as the whim takes him and can be a little much if you aren't already firmly grounded in the mythology he's retelling, but if you can make it through (or have an edition with good footnotes) it's awesome.
Welcome to the bestest thread in Paizoland, Witchwolf. And don't ever apologize for reading kids' books!
She's not coming off so much as a prissy old aunt in the prose like she did when I was assigned to read her, but I have the contrast with Bullfinch who could have shat diamonds to inform me now.I think I know what you're saying in this sentence, but I'm not quite sure.
I encountered Hamilton in school and her prose came across as extremely dated, almost Victorian. It seemed like the kind of writing you'd expect from a person who insisted that chairs wear socks so their ankles weren't exposed to scandalize her.
About a year ago I got a cheap copy of Bullfinch's medieval myths. The man's prose is stilted enough to make Hamilton seem about as inhibited as Gene Simmons. I pretty much gave up on the medieval stuff for the moment and decided to expose myself to Antiquity since I haven't been there since late high school and it's gotten rusty.
As for Liz, well how loyal could those subjects be if they weren't willing to accept her royal diktats as religious truth? Seriously, though, I'd hazard a guess that at least 75% of all the monarchs who ever lived were pathetic.
Oh certainly, but Elizabeth was personally insecure to the point of self-parody. Even when she was young and apparently quite fetching she seemed to require constant reminders of the fact. One can understand that her childhood was very traumatic and definitely did not encourage healthy development. But even once she was quite secure on her throne she required a constant stream of flattery and insisted everyone treat her as the queen of love and beauty...after being ravaged by smallpox and so always wearing a wig and layer after layer of caked on lead paint. There's a lot of "Mr. DeMille, I'm ready for my close-up" going on there.
Not quite the romantic picture of a poor woman unfairly put-upon by evil Spaniards (I recall seeing a dramatization that had the Spanish ambassador constantly giving her a sex offender stare.) and seditious subjects that I got in high school, to say the least.
IIRC, you were plumbing Bulfinch for Arthurian stuff. I never read Hamilton, but I thought she did Greek stuff, so:If you're looking for unprissy Greek stuff, I'd recommend Robert Graves (you can skip the footnotes which are awesome fun, but academically uncredible) and if you really want some pagan sexytime, read Ovid's The Metamorphoses. Ovid jumps around from story to story as the whim takes him and can be a little much if you aren't already firmly grounded in the mythology he's retelling, but if you can make it through (or have an edition with good footnotes) it's awesome.
I'm looking more for a survey that's also readable than sexytime fun. It would be nice to have a modern style overview that doesn't expunge anything, but I don't know that one exists. I'd probably have to dig up some kind of academic study of X in Y myths and mostly I'm reading for pleasure so that doesn't appeal a lot. Plus academic literary criticism is something I've got very limited tolerance for.
"Mr. DeMille, I'm ready for my close-up"
Huh. Second time today I've seen that quote on these boards.
Anyway, back to Greece: I'll repeat my recommendation of Graves's Greek Myths in two volumes. The footnotes are there, but can be ignored. The retelling of the myths are both exhaustive and beautifully-written (Graves was a poet, not an academic). And, again, provided you can find a good, modern translation, Ovid kicks ass! (IIRC, I have the cheapo version published by the Barnes and Noble press.)
I just read Prince of Wolves by Dave Gross and Death's Heretic by James L. Sutter and absolutely loved them.
I got an iPad and some iTunes gift cards for Christmas, so I'm gonna get the ePub of Master of Devils because Count Varian Jeggare and Radovan are the greatest.
Samnell, I'm not sure if it's what you're looking for, or even if you'll be able to find it, or if you're willing to debase yourself by reading comic-books (i am) but you might try Bacchus by Eddie Campbell. Even if you don't usually read comics, don't dismiss it sight unseen; it's about as far from a typical comic as comic can get.
Samnell, I'm not sure if it's what you're looking for, or even if you'll be able to find it, or if you're willing to debase yourself by reading comic-books (i am) but you might try Bacchus by Eddie Campbell. Even if you don't usually read comics, don't dismiss it sight unseen; it's about as far from a typical comic as comic can get.
I've debased myself on far worse than comics. :)
The main problem I have is that my tolerance for certain writing styles (especially the extremely formal or needlessly ornate) is extremely limited and I generally want to have fun while reading. I have a few other filters too, but those are more about the content itself (and on occasion, the writer) than the style of prose.
Contributor
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I just read Prince of Wolves by Dave Gross and Death's Heretic by James L. Sutter and absolutely loved them.
I got an iPad and some iTunes gift cards for Christmas, so I'm gonna get the ePub of Master of Devils because Count Varian Jeggare and Radovan are the greatest.
Glad to hear you loved them. I can't wait to read your reviews, and I'm sure James feels the same way.
I just read 'The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte" (Karl Marx) . A great book.
UNITED, WORKERS OF THE WORLD.
Grr...I hate it when e-books don't indent new paragraphs! Whose job it it to format these things?
Grr...I hate it when e-books don't indent new paragraphs! Whose job it it to format these things?
No promises, but I'd look for the "editor" credit on the copyright info page...
This is exactly why I read a hard copy!!
I hate waiting for books to come in mail (don't have a car so I order online as opposed to trying to work out a way to get to the bookstores-another of which seems to be packing up and closing down every week). Kindle became convinient since as long as I have a internet connection I can download new books whenever. Plus it gives me an opportunity to support other aspiring authors who self-publish in electronic formats. Also I'm all sorts of environment friendly, so as much as I like having books in my hands I get to feel good about myself going paperless.
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I just read 'The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte" (Karl Marx) . A great book.
UNITED, WORKERS OF THE WORLD.
Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past.
Rise up, my comrades, and overthrow the tyranny of the book thread!
Make sure to also read his The Civil War in France.
Vive le Galt!
Rise up, my comrades, and overthrow the tyranny of the book thread!
Make sure to also read his The Civil War in France.
Vive le Galt!
I knew this was your plan back when you gave me the noble title...
I knew this was your plan back when you gave me the noble title...Rise up, my comrades, and overthrow the tyranny of the book thread!
Make sure to also read his The Civil War in France.
Vive le Galt!
Hee hee!
I guess to be contrary I should go grab and re-read my copy of Atlas Shrugged?
Which one was the one about the architect?
My favorite ever book was written by a fascist.
That was the The Fountainhead Doodle.
Only book I've read by her, and I swear to good, I'd rather be down a well with Buffalo Bill yelling "It puts the lotion on its skin!" at me than touch one of her books again.
That was the The Fountainhead Doodle.
Only book I've read by her, and I swear to good, I'd rather be down a well with Buffalo Bill yelling "It puts the lotion on its skin!" at me than touch one of her books again.
Yeah I pretty much feel the same way about Das Kapital
That was the The Fountainhead Doodle.
Only book I've read by her, and I swear to good, I'd rather be down a well with Buffalo Bill yelling "It puts the lotion on its skin!" at me than touch one of her books again.
I managed to dodge Rand but ended up reading Terry Goodkind instead. I understand the quality is pretty much the same.
'Three Hearts and Three Lions' is making me remember one of my old campaigns. I'm sure this is not surprising to anyone.
That book's awesome! I have searched long, hard and in vain for a copy of The Broken Sword but haven't yet resorted to the internet. There's another book I've got that he wrote with Mildred something or other called The Demon of Scattery about Vikings ransacking an Irish village that was really good, too.
Currently reading "Mortal Engines" from Stanisław Lem.
I love his stories, Sci-Fi-Fantasy. For robots. :D
Le Guin sings his praises over and over in The Language of the Night, but I'm afraid I've only ever seen the movies of Solaris. Recommend a good place to start with Lem?
Le Guin sings his praises over and over in The Language of the Night, but I'm afraid I've only ever seen the movies of Solaris. Recommend a good place to start with Lem?
Audible has a new "Definitive Edition" translation of Solaris that I am listening to now. Some of the reviewers have said that this new translation is better than the Polish to French to English route that the previous version used. I'm enjoying it.
I have searched long, hard and in vain for a copy of The Broken Sword but haven't yet resorted to the internet.
Having read the original version in all its grinding, bone-deep fatalism, I was very sad when I bought a copy of the "revised" (1971?) reprint and realized how much "nicer" -- and less lyrical as well -- the older Anderson had made it.
Wiki says the 2002 reprint is the original 1954 text, Kirth.
Ooh! (Logs on to Amazon)
You should resort to the Internet already. :)
I would, but I've got a 4-ft. high bookcase filled with just recent acquisitions that I haven't read yet. I've declared a moratorium on buying more books, used or otherwise, until I've at least made a dent.
Speaking of which, I finished Cugel's Saga. Going to read a bit more of Melmoth before I go on to Rhialto.
But thank you for the links and thank you for provoking Kirth to go on about the differences between the two editions. I didn't know.
I recently finished (re)reading Dune (Herbert) (after finding the book again in my father's bookcases).
I just started Game of thrones (Martin) & I will continue with the other books of the series (Christmas present).
Hagor
The spice must flow!
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As I finish up Iron Council, I'm not sure where to go next. Should it be American Gods? Start into A Game of Thrones? I kind of want to take a break from Miéville for a bit, so I'll save Embassytown for later.
Incidentally, I highly recommend The Spice Route by John Keay. Not only is it a fascinating look on how humanity can create supply lines thousands of miles long without decent communication technology when properly incented, but it is also an absolutely fascinating gold mine of adventure ideas.
It also made me dream up a whole campaign theme of goblin conquistadors.
It also made me dream up a whole campaign theme of goblin conquistadors.
Paizo, take note!