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Hell I'd pay just for a PDF compilation of all the adventures/articles related to it. I was only able to pick up pieces of it, as it is right now I'm gonna have to order some back issues when I do run it, but I'd like to just buy it all together along with any information related to it that was in Dragon (I know there's stuff like that with Savage Tide, didn't know if it was done with AoW also) and all the various Web Enhancements in just one OCR PDF chunk with bookmarks and everything. Definately worth $30 I'd say.
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Okay,
This has been one heck of a read (whew!). I'll add in my request for a Hardcopy but I'll go a bit further.
I not only want a hardcopy (nice for personal reading at lunch and the like) and a Boxed Set (OMG This would go right beside all my ODD stuff and the other boxed sets for reverant gazing at by visitors to my sanctum of D&D) AND... a 3-ring binder in the fashion of the 2nd Ed. Monster Manuals/Compendiums for actual gameplay with a CD-ROM of the complete shebang incase something happens to the original loose-leaf.
I would not only shell out $200 for each and every one of these, I would also renew my subscription for 3 years in Dragon and Dungeon. Additionally, I would probably give the AoW AP HC as christmas gifts and the like.
I am not rich, I am just very focused on where my money goes and I will be saving for the eventuality / possibility / unlikelihood that any / all of this comes to pass.
Come one Paizo, that's over $1000 from me alone.. I know you want it... I'll trade ya!
FW
Forgive my ignorance regarding the game-publishing industry, but what prevents Paizo from simply excising the AoW adventures and Wormfood articles as-is from the back issues and lumping them together as a downloadable PDF? The stuff's already been published once, and I know that there are other magazines out there that publish in dual format. The issue of "permanence" resonates with me; my family and I tend to move a lot and I have had trouble hanging on to the AoW issues through 2 moves this past year. I won't be able to run it anytime soon, but to have that file would guarantee that I can dust it off and play it again long after the magazines would have crumbled into dust.
Am I missing anything, or is this a possibility?
Forgive my ignorance regarding the game-publishing industry, but what prevents Paizo from simply excising the AoW adventures and Wormfood articles as-is from the back issues and lumping them together as a downloadable PDF?
Same deal as the hardcover - WotC owns the magazines, so we need permission to publish them. New product (even if it's just a compilation) = new permission request. The format (PDF vs. hardcover) doesn't really make a difference.
On a sort of side note... Any know of a way to get another copy of the Diamond Lake map w/o having to buy issue #124 again? Even a smaller digital version would suffice. Kind of a drag when you lose something as valuable as the starting map!!
Have a look over at the the RPGenius site - you have to sign up to be able to access the free downloads, but I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for, along with lots of other useful stuff.
I'm sure someone has asked about this already, but I can't seem to find the answer, so... When do you (Paizo) expect you'll be looking at compiling AP2 into a hardcover for release?It will be at least several months to a year after the AP has concluded in the magazine, if we are allowed to do one at all.
--Erik Mona
Well, here we are at nearly a year since the original post. OBVIOUSLY the interest is high and SCAP continues to sell well so that seems like a "no brainer" for the guys in the WotC treasury department.
What's the word on a publication date for a AWAP hardcover????
((P.S. This is my very first post on the messageboards, so please be gentle if I've just asked an incredibly stupid question....))
We're all eagerly wanting the AoW hardcover, but the holdup seems to be on WotC's end of things, sadly. :(
*humorous moment*
Every time WotC says "No," an infested lizardfolk hatches.
Support the Age of Worms hardcover!
:D
Oh, and welcome to the Paizo boards! :)
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Forgive my ignorance regarding the game-publishing industry, but what prevents Paizo from simply excising the AoW adventures and Wormfood articles as-is from the back issues and lumping them together as a downloadable PDF?
The deal with WotC prevents Paizo from selling back issues in pdf form unless they are "sold out".
Because physical copies of all of those issues still exist, they cannot be sold in pdf form. Never mind the excising and electronic repackaging.
Creative Director
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Lilith and Robert are right. Before we can do anything like an Age of Worms hardcover we need WotC's approval, and so far, we haven't been able to secure that approval. Likewise, for online PDFs, as long as we have physical copies of an issue in stock, we can't put them online as PDFs, per our license agreement with WotC. It's just the way it is, unfortunately.
Lilith and Robert are right. Before we can do anything like an Age of Worms hardcover we need WotC's approval, and so far, we haven't been able to secure that approval....
So, how can we help? Letter writing, bribery, protesting, etc. There's a potential army of us all waiting to...do something (that probably proves we care WAY too much about this stuff).
:-)
To Arms!!! *begins gathering all of his worms*
his might have already been discussed on here but in searching I couldn't find anything on this topic, and so if I missed it and it's already been discussed I apologize and would be pleased if someone could point me in the right direction. I have read some stuff that states it's uncertain if there will be any more beyond the already existing Shacked City. I think that you could easily find the demand for a product if it was marketed correctly. If the staff of Dungeon Magazine and the Circle of Living Greyhawk worked together they could allow for these Adventure Paths to be sanctioned for play within the campaign. In doing so there would be lots of perks for both Pazio and the RPGA Living Greyhawk listed below
Perks for Pazio:
1) Sell More Dungeon Magazine: If the hardcovers are exactly the same as the 12 installments in prior in the magazine you would probably get alot of LG DMs that aren't currently subscribed to the magazine that would become such.
2) Target Audience for the Hardcover: It's probably a risky move to publish that big monster hardback book without knowing it probably will sell fairly well. Incorporating it into the biggest longest running 3rd Ed campaign would ensure that alot of them sell.
Perks for RPGA:
1) A module that takes character from level 1-20 with a linked storyline. Only work for the RPGA would be to modify it to work for various party levels which are a lot easier than writing up the whole module and also modifying it. Alternately they could just say a character playing that series can’t play anything else and must play the adventure path in complete chronological order. This works into less work for modifying APLs. There is no need to play anything else since it’s designed to take you close to 20th level. The fact that you would have several parts in the storyline of an adventure path to still play once you hit 16th level (normally in RPGA your character is retired and can only play in a few special modules), so it would work for some players that want to get the chance at higher level play
2) The adventure paths are already set in Greyhawk and they aren’t in regions that really interfere with any other established regions or plotlines that I’m aware, but I’m just getting back involved with the RPGA and I gotta say they have gotten really organized and the restrictions on items from books beyond the 3.5 core is fairly vast and balanced.
I think that the fact that players can play the adventures in Dungeon Magazine and get player reward points is a great starting point. However the fact that it’s for a limited time makes it really hard to do, for example I started DMing the Savage Tide Campaign when it first came out and we play every Friday and we fell behind the latest module so getting player reward points for them won’t be possible unless we have a Weekend Marathon to catch up. Player reward points for playing the module shouldn’t be time sensitive.
Nothing in my post was meant to bash on Pazio, The RPGA, or Wizards I like all three of them. I’m sure the business aspects of doing my suggestions are a lot tougher than I made it sound. I’m just wondering if maybe the idea had been talked about and perhaps in the future something along those lines might be possible. If it’s not a feasible venture that I’m curious if someone could explain why not, I really enjoy the storylines of all the Adventure Paths and think they would be fun to run RPGA character through as well as DM. While I understand that Pazio can't print a HC of either of these without Wizards permission, I was curious with the above mentioned potential benefits why that wouldn't want to give Pazio the rights and make the attempt when if executed properly a business model for the market is already there just waiting to be tapped.
Thanks & Always Good Gaming,
Matt Butler
NorthernOkie wrote,
Well, here we are at nearly a year since the original post. OBVIOUSLY the interest is high and SCAP continues to sell well so that seems like a "no brainer" for the guys in the WotC treasury department.
What's the word on a publication date for a AWAP hardcover????
What he said, any news at all? Even if its a no?
I only recently started getting Dungeon and I am currently running SCAP. Which I bought in HC long after the path had finished in the mag due to the (accurate) praise on these boards. I would buy an AOW HC if there was one (or a box set, though I doubt this would happen) since I missed the original issues.
As far as i can see the only reason WOTC might have for not approving this is competition. Paizo's financial security is surely not a concern for wizards. If Paizo doesn't make a profit what do they care, give the licence to someone else. Surely WOTC will only care if in their opinion a HC AP will mean less sales for them.
If anyone at Wizards ever reads this could I just say, this is ridiculous. I spend my money on products I like. If I see two products I like, I buy two. If I see none, I buy none. I do not spend a fixed amount of money on D&D every month. If they are worried that an AOW HC would stop me buying WOTC books then they need to take a look at the quality of there product.
I bought the expedition to castle ravenloft, I have ordered the Tearing of the Weave and the Shadowdale module from wizards. If these are good I will buy more. In short my money follows the quality not the quantity of available material.
Keep up the excellent work on the AP's and lets hope that WOTC dont try to block a 4th AP. If they do I might just stop buying WOTC materials and stick to Paizo.
Elcian
No news yet regarding any future hardcover adventure compilations like Age of Worms. :(
Thanks for the update James. I will keep hoping..
Elcian
PS I might have missed this somewhere. if so appologies, will there definitely be an AP4?
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No news yet regarding any future hardcover adventure compilations like Age of Worms. :(Thanks for the update James. I will keep hoping..
Elcian
PS I might have missed this somewhere. if so appologies, will there definitely be an AP4?
Yeah apparently there was a quote saying that is gonna be completely material plane campaign.
No news yet regarding any future hardcover adventure compilations like Age of Worms. :(
I guess they still haven't said "Stop Asking" yet, though. Which is a straw to cling to, if nothing else.
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I personally suspect the hold up is all the hardcover "super adventures" that Wizard's is publishing themselves of late. There is the entire Expidition to "__________" series as well as the smaller modules they sell for their miniatures line like Vault of the Drow and the like. I also suspect that the suits at Wizard's assume that a AoW hardcover would cut into the sales of these adventures and thus they are not green lighting it. Perhaps when the "adventure" portion of the publishing schedule dies down some we will see the AoW hardcover approved.
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I suspect Brent is right. My guess is that WotC views the Adventure Path Hardcovers as not just a single-purchase rival for similar products, but as a sort of prolonged competition for its own adventure publishing market. Theoreticaly, each Adventure Path hardcover purchased will occupy a whole gaming group of potential customers for several months, during which time they will not need to buy any WotC adventures.
I think this is a false assumption, because in my experience a typical gaming group will include more than one person with aspirations of running a campaign. A group might have two or three or more people taking turns as DM for different campaigns. When this happens, it is unlikely that more than one of them is going to buy the same Adventure Path-like product. Those other DMs will be looking for fresh options that the other players (including the current DM) are not familiar with. If one is running a Shackled City campaign, another might look towards the WotC options with preference, simply because the Shackled City DM is less likely to be familiar with that than he would with Age of Worms, Savage Tide, etc.
The real tragedy here is that the Paizo Adventure Paths have a great potential to reinforce and expand the hobby, thus increasing WotC's market in the process. They're such great campaigns that enthusiastic players and DMs are eager to stick with them from start to finish, and thus have additional motivation to bring new players into the hobby to do so. The more Age of Worms campaigns being run out there in the world, the larger the market is for sales of Players Handbooks and the other books that players seek out.
Yeah apparently there was a quote saying that is gonna be completely material plane campaign.No news yet regarding any future hardcover adventure compilations like Age of Worms. :(Thanks for the update James. I will keep hoping..
Elcian
PS I might have missed this somewhere. if so appologies, will there definitely be an AP4?
Thanks, thats something to look forward too!
As I say, I think your right about the WOTC adventures being the stumbling block. Its miss guided as it assumes the amount of money dedicated to gaming is limited. In reality I think if there are more quality products people will buy more. To me this says Wizards think their product is inferior.
Elcian
I like to see a hard cover for Age of Worms Adventure Path too. I'm running for two groups and loving it.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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So, now that the news is out, and Dungeon and Dragon will be no more, the question must be asked. Will there ever even be an Age of Worms hardcover? Will the OGL allow such a thing? Will Wizards? Answers may be hard to come by, but they would be very much appreciated.
My gut feeling is this is the final nail in a AoW hardcover. It sounds like Paizo will no longer be producing material under the Dungeons and Dragons brand (hence Pathfinder being released as OGL). AoW is packed full of non-OGL material, even beyond the Greyhawk setting itself.
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CEO
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So, now that the news is out, and Dungeon and Dragon will be no more, the question must be asked. Will there ever even be an Age of Worms hardcover? Will the OGL allow such a thing? Will Wizards? Answers may be hard to come by, but they would be very much appreciated.My gut feeling is this is the final nail in a AoW hardcover. It sounds like Paizo will no longer be producing material under the Dungeons and Dragons brand (hence Pathfinder being released as OGL). AoW is packed full of non-OGL material, even beyond the Greyhawk setting itself.
One never knows what might happen. I wouldn't be so quick to strike that nail. Now, I will caveat that we have nothing planned in regards to an AOW hardcover, but WotC has indicated to us that they are open to the idea of Paizo publishing licensed D&D products and we plan to keep putting the idea of an AOW hardcover in front of them until they let us do it, or we retire. :) So the door is still open with WotC to do some of these things, irregardless of the ceasation of Dragon and Dungeon. We just don't have any plans at the moment.
-Lisa
No more beholders or mind flayers...
...
...oops, here comes WotC's thought police...
Now, I will caveat that we have nothing planned in regards to an AOW hardcover, but WotC has indicated to us that they are open to the idea of Paizo publishing licensed D&D products and we plan to keep putting the idea of an AOW hardcover in front of them until they let us do it, or we retire. :)
-Lisa
You're my hero!
I for one would LOVE to see The Age of Worms Adventure Path be put into a Hardcover or I would even support a boxed set of the same. I have been playing Dungeon and Dragons off and on since I was 15 (am 47 now) It I think is one of the best adventures I have seen since the Queen of Spiders Campaign Adventure back in 1986! I sincerely hope that you and Wizards of the Coast can possiably work on this together some how. THANK YOU for all of your years of hard work and GOOD LUCK with everything that you do!
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It's not going to happen.
WotC does not want you buying a 700 page book that will ensure that you never buy a single one of their adventures in the next year or two.
It has never been more clear than today: WotC does not want to compete with licensed Paizo D&D products. Period. And they don't want you to buy them.
I have my AoW in print - and I have it in pdf. I would have bought it in hardcover too. Not to be.
Forgive my ignorance, but why can't Paizo release the AOW hadcover without the D&D logo? If they're using OGL material, and I believe they are, why can't they release the book?
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Forgive my ignorance, but why can't Paizo release the AOW hadcover without the D&D logo? If they're using OGL material, and I believe they are, why can't they release the book?
Because WotC owns the copyright. That's the nature of the beast.
And it's not OGL, btw. Mind Flayers, Beholders etc? That's pure 100% licensed D&D.
But the content in Dungeon and Dragon is copyright: Wizards of the Coast.
I think Kyuss is owned by WotC, as are his Spawn. No Kyuss, no Age of Worms.
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I believe it may yet be another year or so before we might eventually see some sort of definitive news from WoC about this whole issue. (If anybody wants to keep track...?)
Besides, if you've got the original magazines, either in hardcopy or PDF, surely nothing is stopping you from running AoW. I know this doesn't help all players of the game, but I've been running AoW since TFoE showed up on shelves in Australia and my group is only now going in the labyrith for the same adventure.
Anyway, my two cents are in, (although they are worth less where you are) and I'll end this by saying that I definately support having an AoW hardcover and even a box set would be kick-arse.
One never knows what might happen. I wouldn't be so quick to strike that nail. Now, I will caveat that we have nothing planned in regards to an AOW hardcover, but WotC has indicated to us that they are open to the idea of Paizo publishing licensed D&D products and we plan to keep putting the idea of an AOW hardcover in front of them until they let us do it, or we retire. :) So the door is still open with WotC to do some of these things, irregardless of the ceasation of Dragon and Dungeon. We just don't have any plans at the moment.-Lisa
Thanks for that. However, I may now decide to start finding back issues round these parts. AoW is such a powerful story, I want to run it, and the lack of a definitive answer on the back issue front prompts me to go get the mags. I can't afford to wait much longer to pull the material together.
I am just wondering at the future of the Age of Worms Hardcover now that Paizo doesn't have the license from WOTC. I am willing to bet this event will make the AoW or even the Savage Tides Hardcovers unlikely to be published.
Any official word?
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WotC does not want you buying a 700 page book that will ensure that you never buy a single one of their adventures in the next year or two.
Somebody else mentioned something similar earlier, as well. In my case, at least, this is a false assumption, and I know it's false for other gamers in my group as well. When a product comes out that interests me, I buy it (assuming I can afford it!) It doesn't matter if I'm in the middle of a module or campaign that will take me months to complete, and it doesn't matter if I have a dozen other adventures ready and waiting on the shelf for their turn. I don't think I've ever said "oooh, that looks like a cool product, but I already have enough to keep me busy for years", or anything to that effect. I'll buy the WotC products that interest me regardless of whether or not Paizo publishes AoW, and I'll buy the AoW if and when it comes out regardless of what's on WotC's publishing schedule (or anyone else's, for that matter, since I buy other companies' products as well). I don't view any of this material as "competing" at all.
- Dennis
It's been a few months since the last post......... :D
It's not going to happen.
WotC does not want you buying a 700 page book that will ensure that you never buy a single one of their adventures in the next year or two.
It has never been more clear than today: WotC does not want to compete with licensed Paizo D&D products. Period. And they don't want you to buy them.
This does not really make sense. WOTC is not exactly 'competing' here. WOTC is the copyright holder for this material. Now I don't know the details of how this sort of arrangement might actually play out but I could easily see it being something along the lines of WOTC gets 1/2 the profits and Pazio does all the work (except for WOTC reviewing any changes). I'd not be at all surprised if Paizo went and looked at their spread sheets for expected profits from such an arrangement and came back with "that works for us". In this scenario its nearly money for nothing on WOTCs part (and money for work thats 90% complete on Paizo's part).
There is a thread on the Wizards board about this right now. Basically, some folks are politely trying to let WotC know that they want an AoW hardcover.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=830884
If you want one too, it couldn't hurt to say so on the WotC forums.
There is a thread on the Wizards board about this right now. Basically, some folks are politely trying to let WotC know that they want an AoW hardcover.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=830884
If you want one too, it couldn't hurt to say so on the WotC forums.
Bleh. Wizards doesn't listen to what their customers say. Why do you think we all like Paizo better?
Money speaks louder than words. I would buy the back issues and be done with it.
Money speaks louder than words. I would buy the back issues and be done with it.
I've already got all the back issues, but I'd still buy a hardcover. I was merely suggesting that those who would like to see a hardcover happen make their voices heard. Paizo cas slearly stated that the ball is in WotC's court, and WotC will only produce or approve the production of something they think there is a real demand for.
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I do hope that an AoW hardcover sees the light of day one day. That said, I doubt it is anytime in the next few year at the soonest. Looking at WotC product schedule for next spring they are publishing all of 2 D&D books in the first quarter. I suspect we will have our 4th Ed. announcement at Gen Con, and then we will finally be able to acknowledge the big elephant standing in the room over there at Wizard's. After that we will see what happens. Personally, I am taking a wait and see approach with everything at Wizard's right now. I think the primary reason there has been so little info on the digital initiative is that they are waiting til they announce 4th ed. at Gen Con. We will see if I am right, but I think all the signs point that way. What that means for any hardcover compilations of AoW or STAP for that matter is anyone's guess.
Looks like we all might have to pony up and buy out all the back issues of DUNGEON magazine in order to convince WOTC that there is a profit to be made from a Hardcover.
Having every issue of the AoW adventure path, I'd sooner buy the PDF copies of the back issues.
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It's not going to happen.
WotC does not want you buying a 700 page book that will ensure that you never buy a single one of their adventures in the next year or two.
It has never been more clear than today: WotC does not want to compete with licensed Paizo D&D products. Period. And they don't want you to buy them.
I have my AoW in print - and I have it in pdf. I would have bought it in hardcover too. Not to be.
What I have found is that often products go out of print fairly quickly. I buy everything I can get my hands on so I am not searching for it on ebay or in the used Amazon pile.
Buying a 700 page book will not slow me down in buying other adventures from WoTC at all. I began playing D&D in 1983 but have played sporadically and therefore there are many things did not buy when they came out and my budget did not allow me to be crazy back then. I have spent the last six months trying to fill in the gaps. I have most of what I want now (still would like to pick up some more Planescape stuff) but it has been a long and fairly expensive journey.
I look forward to the day we get AOW in hardcover to go with my other treasures.
I still would like to see an AoW Hardcover. I added my voice to the chorus on the WotC boards thread.
Olaf the Stout
I’m in for the box set. I remember the old days of being able to pull out a map section of Waterdeep form the Forgotten Realms City System box or a portrait of Count Strahd’s lost love form the Ravenloft box. The box set is a great way to cut costs. It’s much cheaper to fold and staple booklets and print loose pictures on light card stock than it is to print and bind a hardcover. It’s also great the have the handouts ready to go for the players. I like the idea of promo minis with the box, but I know that’s shoot for the stars.
I personally would be more inclined to buy a STAP box than an AoWAP box if it were a question of money, but I’ll wind up buying them all, if for no other reason than just to have the whole collection.
For Paizo, I would highly recommend creating box sets the world of the GameMasters series. You don’t need anyone approval but your own. Now that I think of it, screw WotC altogether. Make a whole line of products (books, modules, boxes, minis, etc.), price them to under cut WotC, saturate the market and put the “Big Wiz” out of business…. Yeah, I know, I’m shooting for the stars again. But I figure that if ReaperMinis can start a line of pre-painted plastic minis to take a chunk the business away from You-know-who, so can you guys. Heck, you could contract with them to manufacture GameMaster minis. I mean I’d love to see a little horde of Wayne Reynolds goblins or the whole assembly of the Rune Lords or the new Pathfinder iconics. I, like most other players and readers of Dungeon, have been hoping at some point Great Hasbro would allow his coastal dwelling wizard servant to produce minis of the iconic characters from the pages of the magazines that are soon to be gone.
For Paizo, I would highly recommend creating box sets the world of the GameMasters series. You don’t need anyone approval but your own. Now that I think of it, screw WotC altogether. Make a whole line of products (books, modules, boxes, minis, etc.), price them to under cut WotC, saturate the market and put the “Big Wiz” out of business…. Yeah, I know, I’m shooting for the stars again. But I figure that if ReaperMinis can start a line of pre-painted plastic minis to take a chunk the business away from You-know-who, so can you guys. Heck, you could contract with them to manufacture GameMaster minis. I mean I’d love to see a little horde of Wayne Reynolds goblins or the whole assembly of the Rune Lords or the new Pathfinder iconics. I, like most other players and readers of Dungeon, have been hoping at some point Great Hasbro would allow his coastal dwelling wizard servant to produce minis of the iconic characters from the pages of the magazines that are soon to be gone.
Lots of great ideas here!