My players just defeated Tongueeater at the Lucky Monkey (a close call!) and are now trying to figure out what to do about the missing wands. I expect they'll end up at the Kopru Ruins at this Saturday's game one way or another. I've read through the encounters there again, and I wanted to ask others who have run it or are preparing to run it how you would handle this area to make it challenging, logical, and yet still give the players a chance to succeed.
It seems that there is a pretty decent chance that the thugs at the winch on the near side of Phantom Lake will set off an alarm that sounds throughout the cavern. If that happens, do the players have any chance? It seems that at that point the villains will prepare an organized resistance. Tarkilar is basically a sitting target (except for his traps and undead minions), but it seems Skaven and Triel are not going to sit around waiting for intruders to find them. The logical thing for them to do upon the alarm going off is to get some of their followers together and join up with each other. Then they should either go out to find and slay the intruders or set up an ambush in one of the more defensible areas (maybe around the gauntlet hallway with traps and arrow slits).
I can see Skaven and Triel telling guards to set up the preplanned ambushes in the gauntled area and one or two other spots, then taking spare thugs with them to search out the intruders. Then, if their initial encounter with the PCs goes poorly, I can see Skaven would either seek to escape altogether or (if that is not possible or seems too risky) seek refuge with his friends the spiders. I can see Triel taking leaving the first wave of thugs to slug it out while she retreats to an ambush site to cure herself and prepare to meet the enemy again now that she has gained some knowledge of their abilities.
Do you think if I run these foes in this manner (with some measure of intelligence and tactics) that the players have any chance to survive? They are six characters created with 28 point buy, four are fifth level and two are fourth level, a figher, fighter/barbarian, evoker, cleric, rogue, and bard (who has a measely 11 hp despite being 4th level).
My players just defeated Tongueeater at the Lucky Monkey (a close call!) and are now trying to figure out what to do about the missing wands. I expect they'll end up at the Kopru Ruins at this Saturday's game one way or another. I've read through the encounters there again, and I wanted to ask others who have run it or are preparing to run it how you would handle this area to make it challenging, logical, and yet still give the players a chance to succeed.
This has been a planning problem for me as well. I've just begun Flood Season and so far it has been a blast, but I really see an oncoming disaster at the Kopru Ruins. If ANYONE sounds the alarm to let the complex know intruders are headed their way, I just don't see how any party can survive. The only chance the party has is if they neutralize the guards at the winch silently and make their way around the complex, killing unprepared sleeping mooks. I remember hearing complaints about this before; there are entirely too many guards in this complex and if they are able to prepare, then this will be a TPK for sure. The trapped rooms alone are bad, but with some of the setups (i.e. the guards throwing alchemist's fire on members of the entangled party and then barracading the door) are just deadly. My advice is to try to play the guards VERY lax initially and maybe even remove some of them from the complex entirely. If you play Skaven as cowardly (ie he will retreat to the spider caverns and just chill there), it might not be so bad. I only have 3 PCs and concerned about what to do. This is what I intend:
1. There is a 50% chance one of the guards at the winch is sleeping; 25% chance both are sleeping
2. If the alarm is sounded it takes 40 rounds for Triel and the mooks to equip themselves effectively (during that time, the PCs can find them in the Barracks or in Triel's case, her room)
3. At the first sound of trouble, Skaven will have a small unit of mooks roam the area and find the intruders, while he runs into the spider caverns for safety and casts "Arcane Eye" to see what is going on outside. If the PCs are doing extremely well, he will try to flee the complex with his loot.
4. Tarkilar will not move from his area no matter what. He will meet the party in his caverns unless Triel personally goes over there to bargain for his help
5. I am considering removing 4-5 mooks, but am not sure yet
With this in place, I think a party of 4 5th level characters might have a chance.
I read over Skaven's description again and I see how his being such a coward in avoiding combat and his tendency to go to his "friend" the harpoon spider for help does suggest a way to keep him from joining forces with Triel to wipe the PCs out immediately. My players today ended up getting the stone of alarm tripped by the winch guards on the ledge. They killed on guard and captured the other one, but failed their intimidate attempts so got very little from the prisoner.
They were so afraid of trying to go down on the cage after setting off the alarm (they thought the enemy in the ruins would come out to cut the rope when they were over the middle of the lake) that they refused to use the cage to cross. Instead, one of them pulled out some equipment he had just bought including chains and a tack and pulley, and created his own little mechanism to slide down over the ropes more quickly. They lowered the cage with the dead guard in it first to the other side of the lake, then tried to cross over hanging on the chain. I made them make DC 10 Strength checks to hang on the chain and pulley each round as they swung accross, and the dwarf cleric fell in on the first round, plunging into the depths in full plate armor. He had cast water breathing on the party first, but even so, he ended up on the bottom of the lake facing the skulveyn by himself. Only a successful sanctuary spell and summoning a water elemental saved him long enough to walk to the other side. After all that, they only had time to fight the guards in the south entrance room before we ended the session.
I read over Skaven's description again and I see how his being such a coward in avoiding combat and his tendency to go to his "friend" the harpoon spider for help does suggest a way to keep him from joining forces with Triel to wipe the PCs out immediately. My players today ended up getting the stone of alarm tripped by the winch guards on the ledge. They killed on guard and captured the other one, but failed their intimidate attempts so got very little from the prisoner.
They were so afraid of trying to go down on the cage after setting off the alarm (they thought the enemy in the ruins would come out to cut the rope when they were over the middle of the lake) that they refused to use the cage to cross. Instead, one of them pulled out some equipment he had just bought including chains and a tack and pulley, and created his own little mechanism to slide down over the ropes more quickly. They lowered the cage with the dead guard in it first to the other side of the lake, then tried to cross over hanging on the chain. I made them make DC 10 Strength checks to hang on the chain and pulley each round as they swung accross, and the dwarf cleric fell in on the first round, plunging into the depths in full plate armor. He had cast water breathing on the party first, but even so, he ended up on the bottom of the lake facing the skulveyn by himself. Only a successful sanctuary spell and summoning a water elemental saved him long enough to walk to the other side. After all that, they only had time to fight the guards in the south entrance room before we ended the session.
This is pretty much how my party handled things as well. As for the ebon triad, this is the way I handled it in my SCAP. First of all, this faction of the ET is way to fragmented to put together a unifed defense. Skaven is a loner and coward, but didnt feel he would alow himself to be bullied by Triel or the gnoll (cant remember his name). The gnoll is completly wrapped up in his own position of power. That really leaves only Triel, as an ex guard of cauldron she and the human guardsmen should put up a spirted well organized defense. They wouldnt however cut the cable because (if memory serves me correctly) there is no alternate exit, but of course the PC's dont know that.
Also, the alarm stone going off rarely means an all out response from the rest of the force. A patrol (taking several minutes to assemble and brief) would be dispatched to investigate before an all out response. This is the time the party should use to cross the chasm. My party chose to lie and wait then ambush the patrol.
Triel kicked their butts, but I rolled really high so that didnt help matters much. Overall this is a fun adventure and had my party chasing and being chased by guards through out the ruins.
My players today ransacked through the Kopru ruins. We played a huge marathon session wherein they first fought Skaven. I foolishly had him attack them by himself, thinking after one strike with a lightning bolt while they were nicely lined up in a hallway he'd be able to escape to join the harpoon spider. Though he did almost kill one character and roasted the others pretty badly with the lightning bolt, he then got slaughtered in one round before he could take measures to escape. The party then ventured into the spider caves and ended up facing all the spiders and ettercaps at one time. They barely survived.
They fought a hard battle against Triel and a group of thugs and Alleybashers in the gauntlet hall with arrow slits, where Triel used the tactical advantage to the fullest. But eventually she was killed after having retreated and healed several times.
Finally, the group had one hillfolk they charmed lead them to Tarkilar's caverns, where they destroyed Tarkilar and the skeletal tyranosaurus without too much problem.
The harpoon spider and Triel turned out to be the biggest threats for my group, though ultimately noone died even though two characters had a close brush with death (the bard had his near death experience with Skaven's lightning bolt; the gnome rogue had hers with the harpoon spider which almost ate her).
Huge marathon session, no kidding....I think it took my group 4 or 5 sessions (about 15-18 hours) to make it through the Kopru ruins....how long was this session? You guys must be pretty focused gamers!