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I am currently on deployment in Iraq and am about to DM a game for a group of my fellow soldiers. The game I want to run is more realistic than the typical high fantasy of D&D. The Unearthed Arcana book has been an immense help to me for designing the specific house rules that will give the game the feel that I desire. I wish to list a few of the changes I am going to make to the core rules so that I may get input from other players and DMs. Maybe there are options that I have yet to consider, perhaps the options that I am taking advantage of will have an, as yet unrealized by me, negative impact on the game.
First, I think the characters will earn about 30% of the standard xp award for any given encounter or challenge. I like how this will slow down advancement to a level that is, thought still fantastic, a little more realistic.
Second, every character will start the game with one level in either an npc class or one of the generic classes as presented in UA. I will probably go with the npc classes because I like the idea of the characters starting out as everyday people who then are forced or choose to deviate from their normal lives for one reason or another.
Third, I like the Bell Curve rule from UA. Rolling 3d6 instead of a d20 for action resolution and checks will result in less critical successes and failures, but when they do happen it will bo more spectacular not, "Ho hum, another crit."
Fourth, there will bo no magics that alow resurection or reincarnation. I want the players to fear for their characters, not confident in the knowledge that the high level priest in the next town can bring them back to life.
Fifth, I am going to use a version of the Defense and Armor Damage Reduction variants. Armor will no longer determine whether or not a character was hit, but instead decide how much damage was ignored by vitrue of the armor's stopping power, and how much damage is only subdual as the armor absorbs some but not all of it.
Sixth, the players will be making their own defense rolls as well as attack rolls. I like the players feeling that the fate of their characters is in their hands.
I know that some of these options will make the game more complicated and slow it down some, but I think that in the end that it will be worth it. There are probably some other house rules that I will be using that I cannot remember off the top of my head.
Amyway let me know what you think. Do you have a house rule that would work great with this setup? Is one of these options going to bring me more pain than pleasure?
Thanks for the input.
Third, I like the Bell Curve rule from UA. Rolling 3d6 instead of a d20 for action resolution and checks will result in less critical successes and failures, but when they do happen it will bo more spectacular not, "Ho hum, another crit."
Doing this might be more hassle than it's worth; if your characters are low level and starting out with a level of NPC or generic class, the chance of them rolling a crit threat and then following it up with a second hit roll will be low enough to be realistic. I've seen that frequent crits comes from higher levels (which is acceptible) and players who min/max their combat bonuses (whom you can burn through non-combat means).
Fourth, there will bo no magics that alow resurection or reincarnation. I want the players to fear for their characters, not confident in the knowledge that the high level priest in the next town can bring them back to life.
That's easy enough to restrict simply by making high level priests very rare, as in only the largest cities; my world doesn't even have epic levels...
Fifth, I am going to use a version of the Defense and Armor Damage Reduction variants. Armor will no longer determine whether or not a character was hit, but instead decide how much damage was ignored by vitrue of the armor's stopping power, and how much damage is only subdual as the armor absorbs some but not all of it.
This is a great concept, but it might be time-consuming to adjudicate; but I haven't read the rules yet, so I officially have no opinion.
Sixth, the players will be making their own defense rolls as...
Again, I haven't read the altern. rule on this, but it might also cause a lot of administrative overhead.
Good luck and God Bless,
M
"That's easy enough to restrict simply by making high level priests very rare..."
Yeah, but if players know they exist, even as rumors, they're not going to fear for their character's lives nearly as much as they will if they know they don't exist at all. Another thing to note is that PCs are the stars of the whole campaign and tend to be extraordinary people who do extraordinary things, so even though resurrecting clerics may be rare overall in the setting, if anybody is going to encounter them and employ them, odds are it'll be a PC. I think the original poster has the right idea for the feel he wants to create.
I found that when I was in Iraq, my players wanted to get away from real and gritty (which as you know is everyday life over there). They all wanted high fantasy, pure escapism. It made play much easier for us to stick with the DMG and PHB and the 6 dice.
But that was just my group.
You can always lower HP for a more real (one arrow can kill you) type game. if you keep all PCs and NPCs to single hit dice, but allow larger creatures to have half of their normal hit dice, you will see how scary a Troll can really be.
Personally I've always loved first level for it's realistic hit point to damage from a weapon ratio.
ASEO out
Oh yeah. spent shells make great mini's if you are in a pinch. I know mini's were impossible to get hold of and keep track of while I was there. Nothing like reaching for more ammo and pulling out a fist full of Orcs. ;-)
I'm just about to start a campaign along similar lines, the trick I'm going to use with magic is to have an all-powerful order who effectively act as a secret police and track down any kind of magic (and its casters) and deliver it/them into the hands of their dubious leaders. The PCs are going to have to mask their magic although, conversely, it will be miraculous and terrifying to everyone if they witness it. Hence any ultra powerful magic must be very secret and hence the PCs have to work hard first to uncover it and second to ingratiate themselves with the caster.
The Defensive bonus is a great way to introduce a more thief orientated game. I'm also trying to work in a very alchemical theme to the whole campaign which I hope to use on a future submission using the Styes setting.
The experience thing in particular is something my players want to see (I'd be working on 50% awards); they just don't like playing high-level characters and I've always found the low-level stuff with lots of use of skills and scary combats against really tough monsters goes down best with them.
I'd be really interested to see how your adventures go as it seems we are going on the same wave-length. Look forward to hearing about them.
Rich
I've been considering running a more grim'n gritty game myself for some time. I'll be using the Midnight setting and the Darkness & Dread book from Fantasy Flight Games as a base.
Some changes I'm considering doing:
1. I'll be using the bell curve variant from UA, since that brings the result of the rolls from chance towards skill, which I find good.
2. I'll be using the damage conversion rules from UA, maybe in conjunction with the armor as damage reduction rules.
3. I will most likely restrict all classes to 10 levels (although I'll start on low levels, so that may not become a real problem). Multiclassing will not give you a penalty to Xp in this case. I'm considering giving out some higher than 10th level class abilities in the form of feats which requires 10 levels in the class that grants the ability as well as a character level equal to the level when it is usually granted.
4. I'll be using Midnight's spell system (basically the same as psionics/spellpoint system from UA). Also, in Midnight spells are not tied to a class, but to certain feats. A character capable of spellcasting can not cast spells of a level higher than half his character level.
5. I'll try to limit the spell levels to 5th at most, any other spells that may be used will be converted to incantations as per the UA rules. Also, I may decide reduce the effectiveness of scalable damaging spells to 1d6/2 levels (or equal to the level of the spell if it gives a set damage).
6. Hps are calculated according to a variant rule from Darkness and Dread (somewhat modified) so that you start with Hp equal to your Con score x a size modifier and gain 1 hp per level. Some creatures (like undead) will gain 2 hp per level instead.
7. I'm not sure how do do things with prestige classes which gives +1 spell level yet, but may decide to simply give them their own spell progression (unless I decide to leave them out).
If you want a real harsh gritty setting, take a look at the Midnight Campaign by Fantasy Flight.
Picture Middle Earth if Frodo had failed in his quest to destroy the one ring.
ASEO out
Some C4 and an Iraqi copy of a Spanish 250lb parachute-retarded anti-personal fragmentation bomb topped with incendiary anti aircraft artillery rounds made for quite a 4th of July display in 2003. And some of the frag left over made nice Ogres minis.
My group likes to do the gritty games on a regular basis. One of the best I ran was by limiting ALL magic. Mages were extremely rare and Priests were VERY tight with their spells outside of their flock. The PCs were 7th level before they laid onto a +1 weapon, then had to share it! There were some alchemical "healing salves" that healed 1d4+1 hp and they had a Priest of Ehlonna in the mix to aid in healing; and even then he wouldn't heal them unless they had been injured in the Goddess' service. We concentrated on details. Their masterwork weapons were priceless to them and laying onto some holy water was a huge benefit (lots of undead running around and few magical weapons to overcome DR). It put alot of emphasis on creative role playing and problem solving.
You want to see an experienced gaming group jump, put them up against a pack of wraiths, without magical weapons of any sort, and only 1 priest, two bottles of holy water, and a sunrod to get out of it alive. They got VERY creative!
Good luck and have fun! Semper Fi!
Hoo-ah! This old grunt says thanks and keep your chin down and head up.
What's the matter, Iraq not gritty enough? :P
30% XP will put you around where AD&D used to be. No problems there.
Generic classes... fine, fine.
Bell Curve... Hmm. I haven't messed with that. I'd be hesitant to do so, but you can change it at any time.
No ressurection is okay, but I prefer that they've never heard of it, and to get one requires serious quests and costs.
Haven't played "Armor as DR" yet, sounds more realistic.
The "players roll all dice" is good, but a series of bad dice rolls can kill a party faster than a PO'd DM. When the DM rolls, you get to "nerf as needed". If you're fine with high PC mortality, go for it.
Other house rules that work for me:
Turn Undead does damage (UA)
Critical Fumbles on natural 1 (DC10 Dex Check to avoid, requires a move or standard action to recover)
Unconscious characters need to roll Con score on d% to stabilize
Email me at telas tx at gmail dot com (no spaces, use obvious characters) and I'll send you my House Rules document.
Telas
I found that when I was in Iraq, my players wanted to get away from real and gritty (which as you know is everyday life over there). They all wanted high fantasy, pure escapism. It made play much easier for us to stick with the DMG and PHB and the 6 dice.
I'd have to say that if I was in that situation, I'd be wanting pure escapism too. Although, I wouldn't want to inspire heroics...
I'm just about to start a campaign along similar lines, the trick I'm going to use with magic is to have an all-powerful order who effectively act as a secret police and track down any kind of magic (and its casters) and deliver it/them into the hands of their dubious leaders. The PCs are going to have to mask their magic although, conversely, it will be miraculous and terrifying to everyone if they witness it. Hence any ultra powerful magic must be very secret and hence the PCs have to work hard first to uncover it and second to ingratiate themselves with the caster.
Sounds a lot like the legates in the Midnight campaign world from Fantasy Flight Games. While I've never gamed in it (yet!) I picked up the first 4 books in hopes of one day running/playing in that world. Gritty, low-magic, money-poor (they push the bartering system which I've never really used in D&D but sounds interesting.
- Chris Shadowens
as an 11B going to Iraq soon id first like to say thanks for doing you jobs out there and continue mission.
as a 12 year DM/Player its good to hear i will still be allowed to make time with my curent gropu (we are all in the same company).
about the house rules im familiar with
the bell curve is great for skill checks and almost every other situation except combat. IMHO i found that the high frequency of criticals was more realistic in the fact that death from a single blow was still possible at most levels. also dont forget monsters and villians can take advantage of the same weapons and feats to sorta balance this out.
i personally restrict all ressurection and leave it to something more along the lines of divine intervention. raise dead is OK but even there they stay few and far between in my campaigns.
the defense and DR for armor is the only way to go when i play. i love the idea of armor doing as it does in real life and absorbing damage. the defense bonus to level is great allowing armorless characters to stay combat effective. tried these rules once in a high tech setting and never looked back.
hope all this feedback helps
again, thank you
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These replies have all been great. Thanks.
I have a another question though. I recently had my wife e-mail me a ten dollar microphone from radioshack. I plan to record our game sessions, and then turn the game into a story. I would also like to post updates on the campaign as it takes place in the campaigns section. The feedback that that would allow me to receive would be invaluable. What I want to know is, if something is posted on these messageboards, does it remain my intellectual property or does Wizards somehow then have a claim on it. I can't say with absolute certainty that what I write will be good enough to publish, but it has always been a dream of mine. Thanks again, please let me know if there is another venue where I should address this issue.
What I want to know is, if something is posted on these messageboards, does it remain my intellectual property or does Wizards somehow then have a claim on it. I can't say with absolute certainty that what I write will be good enough to publish, but it has always been a dream of mine. Thanks again, please let me know if there is another venue where I should address this issue.
Tambryn -
Most publishing houses want first publishing rights, and would consider any publishing on the web to a public audience (these messageboards would probably qualify) as a first publication.
As for paizo's rights to messages:
While Paizo Publishing does not pre-screen message content, Paizo Publishing does reserve the right to edit or remove submitted messages or material at any time. Paizo Publishing is not responsible for the content of messages submitted by users of the site. Users posting messages to the site automatically grant Paizo Publishing the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, nonexclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, sublicense, copy and distribute such messages throughout the world in any media.
Hope this helps!
- Ashavan
It must be great to be in Iraq, out in the middle of the desert, getting shot at, for Weapons that turned out to be hollow metal tubes, freedom that will never come, torture that killed less than 1/10 as many civilians as the war, and those sick beheading videos....
one word: OIL.
It must be great to be in Iraq, out in the middle of the desert, getting shot at, for Weapons that turned out to be hollow metal tubes, freedom that will never come, torture that killed less than 1/10 as many civilians as the war, and those sick beheading videos....
one word: OIL.
Welcome to the Messageboards.
Generally, we try to avoid this kind of talk, and attempt to stick to D&D and magazine related stuff. There are a few political boards out there on the web, but this isn't one of them.
Thanks, Tiejaz.