I think one issue of not only Dragon, but also Dungeon, should go back to Oriental Adventures and update Kara-Tur (and if they can, The Hordelands) to 3.5
They did it for Dark Sun and I think it's time for our beloved and REAL OA setting (not that horrible Rokugan gimmick) to make a comeback and prove to WotC that it will be accepted widely unlike it was 17+ years ago.
I propose Dungeon have an adventure module, and updated (like the krakentua) and new oriental adventure monsters. Like they did with Dark Sun.
As for Dragon, I'd like to see articles on Kara-Tur's history, timeline, their deities and pantheons, how each class fits into Kara-Tur, information on each region, maps (one huge foldout map would be great, like the Faerun map in the FRCS), languages, what real-life culture each region is based off of, notable and important sites, spells, magic items, feats, regional feats, a new race possibly (like using the Winning Races article in the same magazine to make an OA-style race), martial art styles, etc. Most important of all, who're the important NPCs, what're their relations with Faerun, Zhakara, The Hordelands, etc. and also what are the current events and affairs as of the year 2625/1448 (1374 D.R.), the Kara-Tur year before the slash being Shou Lung's current year and the one after being Kozakura's current year. (both started back at 2607/1430, and I believe Faerun's timeline then was 1356 D.R., maybe 1358 D.R., can't remember).
It might not be as detailed as us Kara-Tur fans hope, but it's a start and will hopefully get WotC's attention for them to actually release a full-bound hardcover book on Kara-Tur alone. I'm tired of Forgotten Realms having these huge voids in the lands of Maztica, Zhakara, Endless Wastes and most important of all, Kara-Tur.
I second this! Would looooove to see some more love thrown towards Kara-Tur.
One of the latest editorials did mention that the Campaign Classics will be an annual thing, so there is hope this may come to pass!
I would not mind a Kara Tur update as long as it was presented generically (as it was in the original OA) again and not as part of the Forgotten Realms (which came later). I feel it really had a lot more value when it was intended to be dropped into any campaign and in no way tied to a particular published one.
Well, Yamo, I agree but I suggest something like that can easily be stated as a sidebar. Kara-Tur does fit well in any generic campaign and should be treated as such by non-FR players. If Dragon does do articles like this, I believe and hope they state in a sidebar how easy it is to incorporate it as a generic OA campaign.
As for the main meat of the article, I say the Forgotten Realms material should stay as the primary text. Faerun and Kara-Tur interact too much to exclude all Faerun information from such articles.
Is upport your idea, Razz. Yamo seems only to be constantly auto-knocking any suggestion, anyone makes. His jab appears, to be the closest he can get to agreeing with an idea :). But it looks as if the new style and set-up of the mag wouldn't allow for such an excellent idea. Too bad. It may be an excellent oppourtunity to also update any Kara-turan races as well.
Maybe Hazbro/Wizards/TSR is planning on Realms Region books on Kara-Tur, Maztica, and Zakhara. I would support such an undertaking...
We won't EVER see a Zhakara book, guys. The prejudice against the middle east is too great for anyone to publish anything like that until at least the year 2020.
As for Kara-Tur? Whether or not it's Forgotten Realms, I want to see this return. I really ache to run a Wong-Fei-Hung style Jet Li Martial Arts campaign set in Tu Lung, but right now, there's zero information to make this function.
I could run the whole thing off the cuff, but any guesswork I did would really just be gainsaid if something did come out, and usually, it's some stupid little unforseen detail that ruins your entire campaign.
I would rather just see a Shou Lung update. I think it would be effective to have them highlght a major power and then branch out from there. I do not think an all encompassing article is worth it. Just show a little bit and get people interested. Besides, the samurai have been way overdone with L5R.
I would like to see some information on Kara-Tur. I play a monk/cleric from Kara-Tur that is based on the movie Dangerous Beauty. I created a whole background for her based on Japanese history/mythology before I found out that has never been anymore than a half of a page devoted to the deities of Kara-Tur. I don't like the L5R stuff because it doesn't really fit in to the Forgotten Realms setting. The had *SMALL* blurb about Kara-Tur in the Unapproachable East, but nothing worth even reading.
So I would like to see a book on Kara-Tur.
I whole-heartedly agree!...A regions sourcebook on Kara-Tur, Maztica and Zakhara would be awesome!...There's virtually no information about them...And too much on the Dalelands, Waterdeep, etc.. Maybe a book about that mysterious continent north of Maztica as well....
As far as ideas and content go, the material from any setting can be picked out piece by piece and then adapted into any generic home played campaign. I myself would love to have setting specific Kara-tur articles showing up, simply because I'd like to learn more about it and have it quantified up to date. I'm all for regional books too, Maztica and Zakhara included.
Yes, we wants the Zhakara, Maztica, and Kara Tur settings - we must have them, my precious....
I know Maztica was someone else's baby but I'm hoping they will work with me on that. I can make it more than Faerun dressed in beads and feathers. I would like to see articles that tie the Continents together. A sort of world traveller series.
{Climbing back atop soapbox...} Yes, we definitely need some type of adventure path to tie all of the continents together into one contiguous campaign setting. I think we should start with a Silk Road campaign, connecting Faerun, Zakhara, and Kara-tur together along one trade route. This would also allow gaps in the mythic Earth that FR has developed into to be filled {*cough* INDIA! *cough* POLYNESIA! *cough*} as well as helping update things like the Horde. PCs could be merchants and caravan guards, build forts and caravansaries, clear roads and construct bridges or tunnels (possibly travelling through a stretch of Underdark), explore and map newly discovered territories, and become involved in the conflicts between the nations and merchant houses of the territories travelled through...
I know Maztica was someone else's baby but I'm hoping they will work with me on that. I can make it more than Faerun dressed in beads and feathers. I would like to see articles that tie the Continents together. A sort of world traveller series.{Climbing back atop soapbox...} Yes, we definitely need some type of adventure path to tie all of the continents together into one contiguous campaign setting. I think we should start with a Silk Road campaign, connecting Faerun, Zakhara, and Kara-tur together along one trade route. This would also allow gaps in the mythic Earth that FR has developed into to be filled {*cough* INDIA! *cough* POLYNESIA! *cough*} as well as helping update things like the Horde. PCs could be merchants and caravan guards, build forts and caravansaries, clear roads and construct bridges or tunnels (possibly travelling through a stretch of Underdark), explore and map newly discovered territories, and become involved in the conflicts between the nations and merchant houses of the territories travelled through...
{**joining on the soapbox**}
Recently found the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas, and there's a whole bunch of continents marked "Terra Incognita." Who knows what's there (besides Ed Greenwood)? I wanna know! There's a whole SLEW of things that aren't covered or updated for Third Edition.And here's a bit of trivia that I found fascinating...
Maztica is really, really close to Evermeet (nautically speaking, of course). The FRCS setting mentions that there have been several expeditions by Helm missionaries into Maztica that haven't turned out so well.
With the serious xenophobic attitudes of the Elven Navy, it would be interesting to see an adventure where said Helmite missionaries are blown off course!
I also would like to see a generic non-FR Kara-Tur update
Recently found the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas...
Man, the FRIA is expensive! $140 - used on Amazon.com. Ouch!
Maybe,just maybe in that galaxie far,far away known as WotC somebody will hear us cry out for more.Just think of all the possibilities,like maybe even someone like R.A.Salvatore could have Drizz't in search of an ancient artifact that takes him into the strange lands of Kara Tur,HEY now thats not nice,it's nice to dream a little.And besides I did say maybe.
Recently found the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas...Man, the FRIA is expensive! $140 - used on Amazon.com. Ouch!
But so, so worth it. Zoom In, Zoom Out. Did that for HOURS. Even included Realmspace, for those into Spelljamming.
Yeah personally, I am sick of Faerun. I love FR, but Faerun is stealing all the spotlight from areas in Toril that are long overdue for some 3E upgrades.
Only parts of Faerun I care to read up on is the areas that have yet to be explored or detailed via 3E such as Hartsvale, High Ice, Sossal, or the Hordelands even.
The truth is if Kara-Tur is to be updateed it should be done to fit both into FRCS and D@D core equally to be suitable to fans of either/or , not to mention any other setting you might want to place it.But truthfully instead of some articles wouldnt it be better served with its own updated website just like Athas?
Is there any news on this? A lot of peeps where I live are waiting for kara tur also; please update; is this coming?
Thanks much for the update :)
I think he mean's a Kara-Tur article will be presented in next issue, which is the Campaign Classics issue.
Wow, it's been a year already, I noticed. Hmm...blech, I'll be in my nineties by the time enough Kara-Tur articles are released to warrant a return to the setting...
Post more Kara-Tur articles yearly! :D
So is Kara-Tur still a part of Toril or it's own world again, in the eyes of wotc?
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But so, so worth it. Zoom In, Zoom Out. Did that for HOURS. Even included Realmspace, for those into Spelljamming.Recently found the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas...Man, the FRIA is expensive! $140 - used on Amazon.com. Ouch!
I bought it a couple of years ago and agree that it is worth it. If you can still find it, WotC used to have two updates for the Atlas that you could download off of their website. I've got them on a disk somewhere...
So is Kara-Tur still a part of Toril or it's own world again, in the eyes of wotc?
It still is, and always will be, but WotC is too scared to delve back into it again because it didn't do well practically a whole generation ago.
I don't understand why sales from the 80s is going to affect sales of 2007+, especially now that many people are acceptable and enjoy of oriental culture, japanese anime is mainstream, and a lot of gamers do not agree that the default setting for D&D is "Medieval-only". Bringing back Kara-Tur would be a wonderful way for WotC to bring a lot more continued interest in the game if they release Kara-Tur as not only a Forgotten Realms subsetting, but release a guidebook on the web or within the pages of a Kara-Tur book on how to simply adapt it to a general OA setting.
A Kara-Tur article is on its way.
Thank you Dragon for supporting the great campaign settings that were/are still played by people. It's much appreciated.
Is there any chance of a map like the hordelands article?
/d
That'd be one pretty huge map. LOL
Now another Oriental Adventures themed magazine would be useful in helping to bring Kara-Tur alive. If the whole magazine was dedicated to running Kara-Tur and material for Kara-Tur, that'd probably warrant WotC to second-think about releasing Kara-Tur someday.
That'd be one pretty huge map. LOL
Now another Oriental Adventures themed magazine would be useful in helping to bring Kara-Tur alive. If the whole magazine was dedicated to running Kara-Tur and material for Kara-Tur, that'd probably warrant WotC to second-think about releasing Kara-Tur someday.
agreed on all accounts here.
I think he mean's a Kara-Tur article will be presented in next issue, which is the Campaign Classics issue.Is true.
Post more Kara-Tur articles yearly! :DDepending on what we get, I'm sure at least 2/4 of the Dragon editorial team are amenable to this idea. ;)
Anybody know when/if this came out? What issue? I mean, Mr. McArtor surely wasn't talking about Dragon #315---was he!?!?!
THANKS (in advance) FOR ANY HELP!
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Anybody know when/if this came out? What issue? I mean, Mr. McArtor surely wasn't talking about Dragon #315---was he!?!?!THANKS (in advance) FOR ANY HELP!
Issue 351 (I think), January 2007. Be warned though, the article is fairly short ... good i thought, but short. Has some basic info about a town in Shou Lung (sp?) and a little more detail about a nearby monastery, some magical items, some adventure hooks...
It still is, and always will be, but WotC is too scared to delve back into it again because it didn't do well practically a whole generation ago.
I don't understand why sales from the 80s is going to affect sales of 2007+, especially now that many people are acceptable and enjoy of oriental culture, japanese anime is mainstream, and a lot of gamers do not agree that the default setting for D&D is "Medieval-only". Bringing back Kara-Tur would be a wonderful way for WotC to bring a lot more continued interest in the game if they release Kara-Tur as not only a Forgotten Realms subsetting, but release a guidebook on the web or within the pages of a Kara-Tur book on how to simply adapt it to a general OA setting.
As much as I'd like to have the setting back, I'm afraid WotC might "westernize" the setting for the US mainland customers. IOW, it will be a Eurocentric setting in Asian wardrobes and architecture.
Also the fact that you mentioned anime is recognized by mainstream, that too I do not want injected into Kara-Tur. I can handle Wuxia,* Chanbara,* and Jidai Geki,* but not anime.
Mahalo from Hawaii.
*Go and google them for their meanings.
Book of Nine Swords ostensibly represents an 'oriental' product development, the swordsage class in particular.
Ahh, #351, good. I have it on order but it hasn't arrived yet.
Anime!?!? Oh, my the Heavens protect us all! That'd be worse than rokugan ever was!
Nice that I FINALLY found ALOT of people who agree with me when it comes to Kara-Tur and the 3.5 edition. Before I found this thread, about a year ago, I sent a question to Paizo asking if they were going to do any maps of Kara-Tur, Zakhara, or Maztica, like they did the 4 poster-sized maps of Faerun. You know, like what we ALL want, have it so the new maps can be put together with the 4 maps they did for Faerun. They responded by saying nothing like that was planned for the future but to keep an eye out for it, because it could happen. Figures they'd answer like that. One of the 1st AD&D books I ever bought was the original OA, so I've been a HUGE fan of Kara-Tur since I was about 14. (The character I'm most proud of is a samurai that I've had since I was 17. By 3.5 edition rules, he's a lvl 12 sam/lvl 4 weapon master.) I'm clearly all for a much needed update for these regions.
Unfortunately, I think we need to really just start slammin' WOTC with request after request for these, (well those of us who are thorough enough when it comes to DM-ing, and I'm happy to say, all of you who posted on here asking for this updated info for not only FR but generic style clearly understand the time and passion it takes to create a fun and believeable campaign,) because I have TONS of info on Kara-Tur from the 1st and 2nd editions, and it's too much of a headache to attempt to update it yourself, which I've tried! Although I applaude Paizo for trying to get this, little by little, into their magazines, .......well eventhough I'm 30, I guess I've just grown impatient (LOL) and would like to see WOTC do this in one sourcebook for each area with proper maps and such. There was enough material put out for the other 3 regions in past editions, that it would seem that even if they did the bare-bones trick, (like they seem to do with most 3.5 material .... ex. where is the conclusion text for 'Expedition to Castle Ravenloft'?!?!? I can't find it ANYWHERE in my copy!,) you would think that a single sourcebook w/map for either of those 3 regions would be about/or just as big as the FRCS book.
Unfortunately again, we'd have to deal with the fact that WOTC, (like stated in an earlier reply,) would probably make these regions more western-like to appeal to their American audience, and I gather Paizo would stay true to the original TSR vision and just update the material.
I guess as I finally get off my box, and you reading this wake up from the sleep that my boring little rant just put you in, I guess no matter how much I jump up and down, no matter how much of a tantrum this 30 year-old gamer, (who is a proud 17 year gaming veteran,) throws, I'm just going to have to sit here with a pouty lip, with arms crossed and wait.
.....and as we all know, that's the hardest part.
But on the other side of the coin/arguement, don't you think WOTC owes it to us hardcore gamers that have been with this product for what seems like forever?
Well there are two campaigns that I can see someone doing that could greatly expand the Eastern Setting. (as one person I know said, "Oriental is for rugs and salads.")
1.) The Silk Road Campaign: the information could span from actually establishing it to how the DM can use it as a campaign setting.
2.) The Star Fleet: China once sent a treasure fleet on a diplomatic mission to start relations (tribute system) with other lands across the ocean. Using this (perhaps in journal form) you could greatly expand the information known about the lands around the Eastern Lands. If you go with one man's ideas about the original Star Fleet, the fleet managed to circumnavigate the globe.
I would love to see a "Silk Road" themed adventure/ campaign setting/ Adventure Path. With the end of Dragon and Dungeon it looks doubtful. Perhaps a 2nd party publisher might give it a try?
It's starting to look clear to me that we're never going to see Kara-Tur until:
A) We're old and gray
B) We're rotting in our graves
Let's do this step by step as to why WotC abandoned not only Kara-Tur, but the entire Oriental Adventures setting itself.
First, instead of using Kara-Tur as the original setting for Oriental setting, they used Lot5R...dumb move. They chose not to do Kara-Tur because it's set in the Forgotten Realms. However, they seemed to forget that Kara-Tur can still be used for a generic game and leave a chapter to update some of it to the 3.5E Forgotten Realms setting. Problem solved!
Second, they don't seem to understand that most of the youth they're targeting for D&D LOVE japanese anime or anything related to "samurai", "ninjas", "oni" and anything else Asian-related. It's in the video games, the PC games, the movies, everywhere. Yet they created Oriental Adventures and turned their backs on it.
Finally, WotC won't listen to us customers on more material for Oriental settings. They want to concentrate on keeping D&D "conservative" by keeping it Euro-medievial in style even though it's clear that not all medieval fantasy has to involve England-inspired history in order to make D&D a fun game.
I would love to see a "Silk Road" themed adventure/ campaign setting/ Adventure Path. With the end of Dragon and Dungeon it looks doubtful. Perhaps a 2nd party publisher might give it a try?
I am by no means a 3rd Party Publisher (although my wife and I do own a small printing company) I have been working on a Forgotten Realms campaign that takes the party from Waterdeep to Kara-Tur and back. I started a thread about it on ENWorld (Caravan Campaign).
I would love to see a "Silk Road" themed adventure/ campaign setting/ Adventure Path. With the end of Dragon and Dungeon it looks doubtful. Perhaps a 2nd party publisher might give it a try?I am by no means a 3rd Party Publisher (although my wife and I do own a small printing company) I have been working on a Forgotten Realms campaign that takes the party from Waterdeep to Kara-Tur and back. I started a thread about it on ENWorld (www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=202193).