Greyhawk Maps?


Dungeon Magazine General Discussion

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Just curious if these are still planned and what issue we will see the first one.

Also will we see Cauldron and other locations on the map?

Just curious, and eagerly awaiting them.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Yup; the 1st quadrant of the Greyhawk map is scheduled to appear in issue #117 of Dungeon. The next three quadrants will follow in the next three issues.

As for locations; the map is gonna have a lot of tags, and some of those will be locations featured in adventures that have appeared in the magazine.


James Jacobs wrote:

Yup; the 1st quadrant of the Greyhawk map is scheduled to appear in issue #117 of Dungeon. The next three quadrants will follow in the next three issues.

As for locations; the map is gonna have a lot of tags, and some of those will be locations featured in adventures that have appeared in the magazine.

Very cool!

Thanks.


Awesome.


Hi,

I'm really looking forward to these, especially if locations from the Top 30 all-time adventures & from Dungeon Adventures (Cauldron etc) are marked!

Cheers

Richard


Two things that I wish for, hopeless though they be...

a) a hex grid on the map (if it corresponds to the original maps, all the better)

b) nice vibrant colours, rather than the washed out and boring colours of the LGG.

Cheers,
Merric


MerricB wrote:

Two things that I wish for, hopeless though they be...

a) a hex grid on the map (if it corresponds to the original maps, all the better)

b) nice vibrant colours, rather than the washed out and boring colours of the LGG.

Cheers,
Merric

Oh I wouldn't call those hopeless things at all. ;)

Sean Glenn
Art Director Dragon and Dungeon magazines


Sean Glenn wrote:


Oh I wouldn't call those hopeless things at all. ;)

Thanks muchly, Sean - I feel much more positive about the maps now. :)

Cheers,
Merric


Maybe my Greyhawk expectations have been lowered a bit the last 15 years...

But short of printing them on toilet paper I would be ecstatic just about whatever they looked like.


Sean Glenn wrote:


Oh I wouldn't call those hopeless things at all. ;)

Sean Glenn
Art Director Dragon and Dungeon magazines

Is there any chance the Greyhawk maps might show some major roads and trade routes?

JK


Any truth to the rumblings that these have been pushed back? Dungeon 118?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

There is indeed truth to the rumblings. Rather than rush the maps, we decided to delay them a month and get it done right. The first map quadrant will appear in issue #118.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

As James mentioned in the last post, we have indeed delayed the four-part Greyhawk poster map to Dungeon #118. A project of this magnitude deserves the most attention it can possibly get. We're sorry about the delay, and assure you that it will result in a better, more comprehensive product overall.

I have just completed entering map tags from "Iuz the Evil" and "The Marklands," having entered all of the tags from the previous versions of the Flanaess map from the 1983 boxed set, From the Ashes, and the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer. I've also entered select locales from the "Scarlet Brotherhood" sourcebook, so the map now contains a few Amedio Jungle and Hepmonaland locations of note.

It goes without saying that locations such as White Plume Mountain, the Vault of the Drow, and the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth will appear on the map, as will the village of Hommlet and the elusive town of Sobanwych.

Then, I'll double-check the map against recent articles I published in the Living Greyhawk Journal and Dungeon, which should provide a few more details about the southern Nyrond coast, the Bright Desert, Blackmoor, Woolly Bay, Sterich, Keoland, and Zeif.

If there's time, I'll then delve into the Dungeon archive to add additional tags from adventures that came before my time with the magazine. There's only so much time in the month, and I cannot guarantee that I'll be able to ratchet it down this obsessively.

If anyone has a map tag pre-Dungeon 103 that they'd like to see on the map, be sure to post it here and I'll make sure it appears. Otherwise, it's between me and the clock. ;)

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon


Erik Mona wrote:
Then, I'll double-check the map against recent articles I published in the Living Greyhawk Journal and...

Do you have room in your head for anything apart from Greyhawk trivia, Erik? ;-)

How are these tags being handled, anyway? Is the map going to be overwritten by a lot of text, or will they be "coded" and an index appear on the borders?

(Why are most of my Dungeon queries of late about maps?)

Cheers,
Merric

Frog God Games

Erik Mona wrote:


If anyone has a map tag pre-Dungeon 103 that they'd like to see on the map, be sure to post it here and I'll make sure it appears. Otherwise, it's between me and the clock. ;)

Erik, I don't know if it survived the edit for issue #118 or if you even noticed, but I included the locations of Adakkan Strold and Strathern Point from "Incident at Strathern Point" in issue #21 as a sort of trivia throwback to the old days on the Istivin hinterlands map. I don't know if that is where Matt Maaske originally intended, but it seemed to fit okay to me.

Also, all the neat locations in Hold of the Sea Princes from the old U (Saltmarsh) and UK series of adventures(specifically Crystal Cave, Sentinel, and Gauntlet)would be neat, though you may have covered that already.


Mere words cannot express how jazzed I am about this. I'd also like to extend kudos to Dungeon for the high level of representation Greyhawk has received compared to WotC's overall tendency to avoid it.

(Yeah, I know, "what avoid, it's the default, yadda yadda." If it's so default, why doesn't, say, Sunless Citadel suggest a location in the Flaeness? But I digress.)

In short, Greyhawk Goooood. :)

-The Gneech

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

>>>
Erik, I don't know if it survived the edit for issue #118 or if you even noticed, but I included the locations of Adakkan Strold and Strathern Point from "Incident at Strathern Point" in issue #21 as a sort of trivia throwback to the old days on the Istivin hinterlands map. I don't know if that is where Matt Maaske originally intended, but it seemed to fit okay to me.
>>>

I don't remember if these made it or not. I'll double-check today.

>>>
Also, all the neat locations in Hold of the Sea Princes from the old U (Saltmarsh) and UK series of adventures(specifically Crystal Cave, Sentinel, and Gauntlet)would be neat, though you may have covered that already
>>>

Got it. Not all of the villages around Lake Spendlowe will appear, since most of them are in the same "hex" and I want the map to be asthetically pleasing first and canonically perfect second. Kusnir and Hallbridges appear, but sadly Gannaway does not. They're almost all villages, though, so I'm not sweating it too much. Perhaps we'll revisit the area in an adventure eventually, so I can redress Gannaway's absence then.

Basically all that's left now is:

The Fright at Tristor
Tammeraut's Fate
Bright Desert Article
Hardby Article
Place Cauldron, Sasserine, etc.
Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil
FtA Atlas Adventure Sites
Greyhawk Adventures Hardcover sites
Vecna Lives

Ancient Dungeon adventures

Can he finish in 24 hours? Only Cyndor and Istus know for sure.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Erik Mona wrote:
Can he finish in 24 hours? Only Cyndor and Istus know for sure.

Don't forget Lendor! He's all about this project!

Frog God Games

I'm sure you remembered Orlane from N1, but I thought I'd throw it out just in case.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Erik, just wanted to throw in the town of Darkhaven, from the Scourge of Worlds DVD adventure. The town itself is somewhat up for placement, as all we know is that it's slightly to the east of the Sea of Dust. I don't think it's been in any other products.

This one is an outside pitch, since I can't say these are conclusively Greyhawk, but what about the places from the original Adventure Path (The Sunless Citadel through Bastion of Broken Souls)?

I'm relatively confident that the locations from the Iconics novels, such as New Koratia, aren't part of the Flanaess.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also I think the module Gargoyle had some location maps of the sterich area.


I must say, I am chomping at the bit for this map. My last Dungeon subscription lapsed 12 years ago, and I not ashamed to say that I resubscribed pretty much just for this.


Erik Mona wrote:

We're sorry about the delay, and assure you that it will result in a better, more comprehensive product overall.

Erik & James, thanks for the heads up.

Personally, I would rather have you guys take your time and do it right, even if it slides even farther back than #118. (but not too long, we don't want another T1-4 here! :-D )


Erik!

How about the locations from Rary the Traitor! Other than that, it seems that you are all set to get everything MOST people remember on the map. Man I am stoked for this.

Thanks!

Aaron.

Frog God Games

James Jacobs wrote:


Don't forget Lendor! He's all about this project!

Speaking of Lendor, I don't know if it would be on the first map or not or if it's too late, but hopefully the Lendore Isle locations will appear (Restinford, Garotten, Bone Hill, the Duchy of Kroten-wherever that actually is-, etc.). Was Deep Dwarven Delve located on Lendore? I never got the silver boxed set so I haven't read that adventure to know.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Restenford and Garrotten are on the map.

--Erik


Very cool. I've been looking for a good Greyhawk map for ages. Am I glad I just started my subscription. Dungeon is turning out to be one of the best supporters of Greyhawk since Gygax. Great work, Mr. Mona. This is exactly the kind of thing that should increase your subscriber base.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I am curious where you'd put the Sunless Citadel, Durgeddin's Forge, Nightfang Spire, etc. But, given that I've placed several of 'em already, I'm okay with 'em not being on the map, since I doubt that they'll be in the same places. :)

Thanks for the update; the post office manages to mess up my subscription issues rather regularly, so I was thinking about getting extra copies of those issues from the FLGS. Now I know not to ask for #117...


Don't know if this has been covered, but what are the chances some of the locations/maps from the unpublished Ivid the Undying stuff might be included?


Hey, Erik,

A couple things came to mind. Have you thought to include any material from the Gord the Rogue series, or is that material verbotten?

Also, what about the location of Mordy's secret castle in the Yatils?


Here's a few locales for you:

Castle Mukos: Ruins near White Plume Mountain. S2, RtWPM

Dingaverge: Small town on the edge of the Fellreev (hex A4-54 on the Darlene map). Dragon #56

Dragotha's Lair: Home of the undead dragon. Located either near WPM or the Howling Hills. S2, Dragon #134.

Dwarfhaven: Small town on Lendore isle, HQ of church of Fortubo. Dragon #88

Fharlanst: Destroyed castle of the death knight St Kargoth. Dragon #290

Ghazel: Outpost in the Bright Desert. Dungeon #30

Lady Kath's estate: Located 1 or 2 day's ride from Eastfair. Dragon #291

Monduiz Dephaar's stronghold: located in the eastern Blemu Hills. Dragon #291

Morshaldin Castle: ancient home of the Knight Protectors of the Great Kingdom. Dragon #290

Nol-Daer: Ruined castle in the Suss Forest. Dungeon #13.

Skrellingshald/Tostenhca: Ancient Flan mountain city in the Griffs. GA

Trollpyre Keep: Former estate of the death knight Sir Loran, located in southern Sunndi on the edge of the Vast Swamp. Die, Vecna, Die!


Erik Mona wrote:

Restenford and Garrotten are on the map.

--Erik

Len Lakofka and I did a map a few years ago with the exact shape of the island and all its cities (Loreltarma, Kroten, Garrotten, Restenford, etc.). Just tell if there is a need.

Eric Dumas

Sovereign Court

Hi all-
Although Gargoyle and Puppets aren't part of the continuum (or childsplay for that matter), they do offer some cool locations (as previously mentioned about Garygoyle).

But I was also reviewing my Sagard novels...with Sagards Village and Grimkeep as well as many other locales in Sagard the Barbarian - #1 - The Ice Dragon. In Sagard the Barbarian - #2 - The Green Hydra, there are the Hydranian Islands off the cost of Hukka Marash and Raed. In book 3, Sagard the Barbarian - #3 - The Crimson Sea, there is of course the Crimson Sea and the Skull Islands just south of the Hydranian Islands. In book 4, Sagard the Barbarian - #4 - The Fire Demon, there are the Isle's of Dread and Lake Ebon.
I do realize that books 3 & 4 take place not in areas of the Flanaess (as defined by canon) and even some of the first two books are iffy as well, having Sagard's Village on the offical map would be completly b#@++in.
To help the effort as much as possible, I just went to upload the 4 maps on my site, but they aren't showing. So I've zipped them here: www.GreyhawkOnline.com/sagardmaps.zip

I just hope I"m not too late.

Theocrat Issak
CanonFire! & GreyhawkOnline - Protect Your World

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

>>>
Len Lakofka and I did a map a few years ago with the exact shape of the island and all its cities (Loreltarma, Kroten, Garrotten, Restenford, etc.). Just tell if there is a need.
>>>

Sure! Send it along to erik.mona@paizo.com. I just guessed at their location, and would be happy to move them.

--Erik

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Issak Haywood wrote:


I do realize that books 3 & 4 take place not in areas of the Flanaess (as defined by canon) and even some of the first two books are iffy as well, having Sagard's Village on the offical map would be completly b@&&@in.

Issak, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Unfortunately, the Sagard books are off limits since they are not owned by Wizards of the Coast. I'd love to put a few of the locations on the map, as well, but it's just not going to happen.

I'm not sure you know, but I once wrote an extensive treatise on "Oerth Beyond the Flanaess," culling information from the later Gord and Sagard books. It's an imperfect analysis, but it ought to be pretty fun to read. Unfortunately, I've long lost the file and can't seem to turn it up with a Google search. It was posted to the old AOL Greyhawk folders and (if I'm remembering correctly) it's quite long.

Might be worth tracking down for those interested, but I'm afraid I no longer have a copy.

--Erik


Erik Mona wrote:


I'm not sure you know, but I once wrote an extensive treatise on "Oerth Beyond the Flanaess," culling information from the later Gord and Sagard books. It's an imperfect analysis, but it ought to be pretty fun to read. Unfortunately, I've long lost the file and can't seem to turn it up with a Google search. It was posted to the old AOL Greyhawk folders and (if I'm remembering correctly) it's quite long.

Might be worth tracking down for those interested, but I'm afraid I no longer have a copy.

--Erik

Hey, Iquander, guess what I just happened to have been reading last night? A pile of dusty old GH printouts from the old AOL board. What are the odds? You on Suhfang, Roger on Erypt, etc., including you on Sagard. Those were fun times.

I don't have an electronic copies with me any more, but I do have paper copies. You don't want/need photocopies of your material, do you? Or electronic if I can dig them up back at the family home over Christmas (well, at least there is a chance I still have them)?

Anyway, nice to see all the care and effort from those days has really paid off for you. Looking forward to continued quality GH stuff in Dungeon . . .

John J,
who used to be Clovis the Paladin in your TSRO Bigby days

Sovereign Court

Hi all -
Erik / John -
I do have many of the old AOL Board messages for CanonFire!.com that I've been going through and separating.
These are the logs that I have Logs 13-26, 28, 30 -
No they are not yet on CanonFire for download, but they will be, so I keep saying.
But if one of you (or someone else) can pass along which log those come from, I'll make sure I separate that article (or series) and make upload that as a special download.

Theocrat Issak


Howdy all,
Just wondering, will these maps go beyond the borders of the map from the LG gazetteer? I would love to see some more detail on areas to the west especially. Perhaps if not in these maps, maybe a future map freebie? I've been playing since 1e, but 3e is the first edition in which I have made use of Greyhawk, so I'm not familiar with any past explorations of these "off-the-map" areas in TSR products.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Unfortunately, these maps do not extend further west than the LGG maps (if anything, they extend a tiny bit less west than that one). I wanted to get the Flanaess done correctly before we go traipsing around the rest of the globe, after all. :)

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon


Thanks for the quick response Erik.
I'm not surprised to hear about the extent of the maps, I am still very excited for them though. I have been planning on running some of the classic adventures, and it will be nice to know where they are located in relation to each other. I guess I'll just have to keep my subscription current until that westward expansion appears;). By the way, great job with Dungeon, Erik. I couldn't be more pleased with what I have seen lately and with what is on the horizon. All of the Dungeon staff's hard work has been greatly appreciated.


Issak Haywood wrote:

Hi all -

Erik / John -
These are the logs that I have Logs 13-26, 28, 30 -
No they are not yet on CanonFire for download, but they will be, so I keep saying.
But if one of you (or someone else) can pass along which log those come from, I'll make sure I separate that article (or series) and make upload that as a special download.
Theocrat Issak

Issak - I have the same logs, plus rough culls for Best of Greyhawk from 11 and 12 (the logs for folders 27 and 29 were corrupted). Iq's article was entitled either "Other Side of Oerik" (in his introductory post), "Utter West" (the title I have the article saved under), or "Bounds of Oerik" (the actual post series title). The first post was "96-06-16 22:45:54 EDT" (anyone else feel old yet?). Folder 12 starts in 96-03, so it's after that.

To the best of my knowledge, I've got every significant "article" that was posted on AOL, plus the logs and a few curiosities. I supposed I ought to zip all this stuff up and send it to Canonfire or something.

Cheers,
Nell.


Erik Mona wrote:

I wanted to get the Flanaess done correctly before we go traipsing around the rest of the globe, after all. :)

Which means you could go traipsing around the rest of the globe, and I ought to get cracking on a few long-shelved proposals if I want to have any say in it at all. :-)

I'm really liking the new Dungeon, Iq. Good job.

Cheers,
Nell.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Thanks, Nell. Always good to gain the approval of a Great Old One. ;)

--Erik


I added these towns and villages to my Markland's maps from Gord's Greyhawk along with the Town of Port Valour from my copy of Castles:

Furyondy:

Broadford is ten miles north of Littleberg, Furyondy from page 168 Artifact of Evil.

Fountainspring (pop 2,000) this town is one day and one league (63 miles) north of Littleberg.

Pangate is the sole crossing of the Veng River and lies far above the crossroads (E4-78)

Stump is a seedy little village that lies one week by horse west of Littleberg. (Q4-81)

Tusham this town is about ten hours by horse from Crockport. (R4-80)

My own input the map from "Castles" which had Greyhawk and FRCS references in it was the CASTLE HART: OVERVIEW (No page number). The map shows Castle Hart on the western bank at the junction of the Veng and Crystal Rivers with the Town of Port Valour located on the opposite (Southern) bank of the Crystal River putting the town of Port Valour in the Viscounty of the March and Castle Hart in the County of the Reach. (I can fax you a copy of the the castle Hart overview map page if that would help in adding it and the town to the map.)

Can't cite the reference so probably not useful but the "Village" of Molag was about midway between Littleberg and Fountainsprings (Not to be confused with the real Molag in the Lands of Iuz to the North but it was one of the reasons I enjoyed adding it to my Markland's map).

For Veluna the village of Shancross lies on the Veluna side of the Velverdyva River. (U4-94)

For Valley of the Mage Bardillingham is the valley's largest town with a population of 3,000. (W5-115)

Would the Hamlet of Rastor (pop 100) from RtToEE merit addition?

Rastor is shown as being located 135 miles North West of Enstad on the overland map in the Lortmil Mountains, RtToEE.

Hope this helps.

Scarab Sages

I may be too late, and I may be dating myself, but....
Is "Kendall Keep" (The Keep on the Borderlands) going to be on the map?
If you dont have any plans too, could you please include it's location. If not, s'ok, I was just asking...

Thanks.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone! We got what we could from these posts tagged onto the map, which is now done. Yay! One less thing to worry about!

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Castle Mike, you're my kind of guy. Unfortunately, I didn't see this post before I sent the map off to the printer, but I'll give it an item-by-item run-down to give you some idea of how "complete" the map will be.

CastleMike wrote:


Broadford is ten miles north of Littleberg, Furyondy from page 168 Artifact of Evil.

Didn't get this one.

CastleMike wrote:


Fountainspring (pop 2,000) this town is one day and one league (63 miles) north of Littleberg.

Got it.

CastleMike wrote:


Pangate is the sole crossing of the Veng River and lies far above the crossroads (E4-78)

Stump is a seedy little village that lies one week by horse west of Littleberg. (Q4-81)

Didn't get these.

CastleMike wrote:


Tusham this town is about ten hours by horse from Crockport. (R4-80)

Got it.

CastleMike wrote:


The map shows Castle Hart on the western bank at the junction of the Veng and Crystal Rivers with the Town of Port Valour located on the opposite (Southern) bank of the Crystal River putting the town of Port Valour in the Viscounty of the March and Castle Hart in the County of the Reach.

I got Castle Hart. I can't remember if I got Port Valour or not. I probably did.

When you say "my own input," are you suggesting that you authored "Castles"? If so, neat. Thanks for sneaking that in, there. "Castles" was a rare bright spot in an otherwise pitch-black era insofar as Greyhawk support was concerned.

I didn't get the others you mentioned other than Rastor, which is on the map.

I did get Thrunch (from Isle of the Ape) and Dragon's Eye Tower (from the "Siege of the Tower" Endless Quest book), however, so it's not like I wasn't trying. ;)

--Erik


Hey Erik,

The map sounds pretty good. My apologies I should have typed my post a little better. I didn't author Castles but I figured I'd probably be the only to submit it as a source for the map for Dungeon. Thanks. Mike

Sovereign Court

Hi all -
So the maps almost out and gonna be ready for our consumption very soon. Nice.
CastleMike, when the map comes out, (or at least the section(s)) in which those towns you mentioned that Erik missed, would you mind giving us their "location" as best as you can figure?

With the Darlene Maps, I had them laminated and those hang on the wall. It seems like it'll be a few more months before they're retired, but if this new Dungeon Map looks as good as Erik is saying, then it'll certainly be laminated and hung on the wall in more places than just my walls!

Theocrat Issak


Erik,

Now that the map of the Flanaess is said to be finished, might I jump ahead with a question on the "westward expansion?"

To date, how much is known about the outlying regions of the Flanaess? I only know about the Chainmail setting and Aquarius. Is there enough material to even justify a map and, if so, would you like to flesh out additional information in adventure-form before the actual map appears?

Thanks,

MB

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