Before They Were Giants: First Works from Science Fiction Greats (Trade Paperback)

I think the word "greats" could definitely be argued against here.

I think the word "greats" could definitely be argued against here.

Since the compilation is limited to only living authors, that cuts out a lot of undeniable "greats" in the genre.

I think the word "greats" could definitely be argued against here.

Let's hear it.

I think the word "greats" could definitely be argued against here.

It depends how you define "greats".

Diya wrote:

I think the word "greats" could definitely be argued against here.

It depends how you define "greats".

Is it Books sold?
Is it appearance on Genre or Main Bestseller Lists?
Is it recognation by fellow genre authors?
Is it prices won?
Is it recognation by critics?

Obviously it's the one that trumps them all, Favourites of the Publisher :)

I only see one name that I have not read... I'd say these are greats of the realm for sure. Are there more greats out there? Yep. But these are good writer for sure.

It depends how you define "greats".
Is it Books sold?
Is it appearance on Genre or Main Bestseller Lists?
Is it recognation by fellow genre authors?
Is it prices won?
Is it recognation by critics?

In short: yes.

I'd say each of those categories is satisfied by at least a few authors in this book. As each interview will also include a brief overview of why the author is particularly notable, I'll save the rationale for the final product, but I'm extremely pleased with the author selection. Please keep in mind that this is "greats," not "the greatest"... just because your favorite author isn't on here doesn't mean they aren't equally awesome. Along with their accolades, sales, and quality as determined by me personally, several other factors contributed to whether or not a given author was included:

1) Had to be living.

2) Had to be contactable. (Next time, Ted Chiang! Next time!)

3) Had to be willing to give me his or her story for well below standard superstar fees, as we simply don't have the same budget as a major publishing house. (Authors were usually pretty cool about this when I could talk to them personally, but most agents were understandably reluctant to let anything go for less than market value.)

4) Had to be willing to conduct an interview. Several authors simply weren't interested in answering questions, which was half the point of the book.

A number of authors (including my hero Dan Simmons) didn't make it past that battery of tests, but fortunately enough did that I was able to pack this book solely with folks who are - in my mind - legitimate superstars, and fundamentally important to the current state of the genre.

Diya wrote:

I think the word "greats" could definitely be argued against here.

Let's hear it.

I think I might use "great" at a higher level than is used here. Bova, Niven and Gibson are the only ones I would list here as "great". Anthony, Brin, Spider Robinson and Haldeman are very respectable and would fall on some people's "Great" lists and I have enjoyed some of their work. I only know R.A. Salvatore from his Forgotten Realms work and I have heard of Kim Stanley Robinson although have not read any of her works. Doctorow's name looks familiar but I studied Russian in college for 3 years so it may be just a similar name. The other four are all new names to me (Griffith, Mieville, Stross and Swanwick). I have been active reader of Science Fiction and Fantasy for a number of decades. I may have read some of those four and have definitely perused the other five. They may yet become "greats". I would argue, however, the fact that I, an active reader, have not even heard of four of them would argue that they are all NOW "greats" at this time.

Of course, even with this commentary I will read all of these authors when the Planet Stories issue arrives and may look up some of their later work once they became "great".

Erik Mona wrote:

Diya wrote:

I think the word "greats" could definitely be argued against here.

Let's hear it.

I think I might use "great" at a higher level than is used here. Bova, Niven and Gibson are the only ones I would list here as "great". Anthony, Brin, Spider Robinson and Haldeman are very respectable and would fall on some people's "Great" lists and I have enjoyed some of their work. I only know R.A. Salvatore from his Forgotten Realms work and I have heard of Kim Stanley Robinson although have not read any of her works. Doctorow's name looks familiar but I studied Russian in college for 3 years so it may be just a similar name. The other four are all new names to me (Griffith, Mieville, Stross and Swanwick). I have been active reader of Science Fiction and Fantasy for a number of decades. I may have read some of those four and have definitely perused the other five. They may yet become "greats". I would argue, however, the fact that I, an active reader, have not even heard of four of them would argue that they are all NOW "greats" at this time.

Of course, even with this commentary I will read all of these authors when the Planet Stories issue arrives and may look up some of their later work once they became "great".

pssst. Kim Stanley Robinson is a man baby, yeah!

I think I might use "great" at a higher level than is used here. Bova, Niven and Gibson are the only ones I would list here as "great". Anthony, Brin, Spider Robinson and Haldeman are very respectable and would fall on some people's "Great" lists and I have enjoyed some of their work. I only know R.A. Salvatore from his Forgotten Realms work and I have heard of Kim Stanley Robinson although have not read any of her works. Doctorow's name looks familiar but I studied Russian in college for 3 years so it may be just a similar name. The other four are all new names to me (Griffith, Mieville, Stross and Swanwick). I have been active reader of Science Fiction and Fantasy for a number of decades. I may have read some of those four and have definitely perused the other five. They may yet become "greats". I would argue, however, the fact that I, an active reader, have not even heard of four of them would argue that they are all NOW "greats" at this time.

Of course, even with this commentary I will read all of these authors when the Planet Stories issue arrives and may look up some of their later work once they became "great".

Everyone's welcome to their own interpretation of the word "great," or course, and I doubt any two people's lists will be identical, but I would like to point out that every author here has a really solid reason for being in this collection and qualifying as a "great" in my mind. And they aren't always the same reason! Some of them have won a number (or a truckload) of major industry awards, which is probably one of the most objective ways of assessing greatness. Others have unbelievably high sales, which makes them great in terms of popularity (although I admit that alone wasn't enough to get anyone into the anthology - I had to personally enjoy their books as well). Still others have made a tremendous impact in a particular area of speculative fiction - for instance, though Nicola Griffith may not have the sales of somebody like Salvatore, she's probably done more than anyone since James Tiptree, Jr. for advancing LGBT themes in SF (something her half-dozen Lambda awards attests to). And Salvatore, for that matter, is probably the main reason why tie-in fiction outsells pretty much everything else these days... there's a reason Drizzt's so popular.

In any case, each interview also includes a preface by me explaining why I think a particular author is important to the genre. So all I can say is, if you're not sure now, please pick up a copy of the book, and see if it can change your mind about any of them! :)

I can't say I have heard of all these authors, but the ones I have I would consider greats.

Any chance of Alan Dean Foster showing up in one of these?

Any chance of Alan Dean Foster showing up in one of these?

He was definitely on my list of potential folks... perhaps if it does well we can do some more books like this!

Cover? :)

Now if only we could get a cover by Michael Whelan.

I'm so looking forward to his show on the Cape in August. I just have to leave my charge cards home or I'll be coming home with a multi-thousand dollar piece of art, a bill I can't pay, and a look of pure Evil from my girlfriend :)

Now with the final cover!

Ooooo...

Retroey.

Now with the final cover!

...and an updated description.

Any particular reason why out of 15 authors only one woman?

Or will there be a second volume with 15 authors and only one male?

Just curious.

Any particular reason why out of 15 authors only one woman?

Or will there be a second volume with 15 authors and only one male?

Just curious.

Two main reasons:

1) Because I made my list based on my interpretation of the authors' significance to the genre and my own personal fondness for their work, without regard for gender, race, or creed.

2) Because of all the women I asked to be in the anthology, only Nicola was interested (or even emailed me back). Trust me, I'm well aware of the contributions of female SF authors... Pierce Watters regularly expresses his opinion that Ursula K. LeGuin is the greatest living author, and will cut anyone who says otherwise. :P

Honestly, #2 is a pretty major factor in who is and isn't involved in the collection, male or female - some folks are just too busy, too hard to contact, or not in a position to sell their reprint rights at the rates we can offer. And in the end, there were only 15 slots, so numerous authors that I really love didn't get contacted. On the whole, though, I stand by my roster - everyone in this collection is phenomenal, and I'm honored that they wanted to work with me!

I think it's also worth noting that Paizo has published quite a few books by such monumental female authors as Leigh Brackett and C.L. Moore. Neither of them is still alive though. Worlds of Their Own contains three pieces by women. So it's not like the Planet Stories line isn't giving credit where credit's due to female authors.

I think it's also worth noting that Paizo has published quite a few books by such monumental female authors as Leigh Brackett and C.L. Moore. Neither of them is still alive though. Worlds of Their Own contains three pieces by women. So it's not like the Planet Stories line isn't giving credit where credit's due to female authors.

For real! We're your go-to guys for Leigh Brackett and C. L. Moore, and I'm personally of the opinion that bringing Jirel of Joiry (the first-ever female sword and sorcery protagonist) back into print is probably the best thing we've done with the line. (And both she and Brackett certainly do more for the history of women in SF than most books being released these days....)

Paizo brought Moore and Brackett to my notice; I don't know if I would have ever read them otherwise.

Pierce Watters: whenever somebody refers to him, it's always some interesting tidbit like this. I sure wish we'd get a blog post or an interview or something from him.

Now if only we could get a cover by Michael Whelan.

I'm so looking forward to his show on the Cape in August. I just have to leave my charge cards home or I'll be coming home with a multi-thousand dollar piece of art, a bill I can't pay, and a look of pure Evil from my girlfriend :)

SWEET! I am going to have to motor down to Orleans to check this out!

Paizo brought Moore and Brackett to my notice; I don't know if I would have ever read them otherwise.

Ditto.

<sigh> You know, this is my 1000th post on paizo.com. I'd been looking forward to this occasion for quite some time. I mean, this website is special to me. I've never written more than TWO posts on any other website's boards, but this site just drew me in. To me, 1000 posts is quite an achievement.

I was hoping to time it so that my 1000th post would be in some heavily trafficked thread. I was hoping to write some special, meaningful post that many people would remember for a while.

And what do I write? "Ditto." Shakespeare's got nothing on me, huh?

Well, I do have SOMETHING of substance to say...

...and an updated description.

And reading that description just put Before They Were Giants onto my wish list. Seriously.

I've never written more than TWO posts on any other website's boards, but this site just drew me in. To me, 1000 posts is quite an achievement.

Gratz on the 1K mark Aaron!

1,000 is an achievement. 10,000 they start looking at you funny. 30,000 you contract lycanthropy and move to Texas :P

Paizo brought Moore and Brackett to my notice; I don't know if I would have ever read them otherwise.

Pierce Watters: whenever somebody refers to him, it's always some interesting tidbit like this. I sure wish we'd get a blog post or an interview or something from him.

Pierce is our secret weapon: the senior editor of Planet Stories and all-around sales guy. He doesn't hang out on the boards much, but he's one of those people who know everyone who's anyone in the SF publishing industry, and likely knew them all before they were famous. If you want Ben Bova's phone number, or somebody who's had his life threatened by F. Paul Wilson, or who's actually gets along with Harlan Ellison, Pierce is your man. Maybe I'll do a blog post on him, one of these days....

In fairness, Paul threatened my life, too. ;)

gbonehead wrote:

Now if only we could get a cover by Michael Whelan.

I'm so looking forward to his show on the Cape in August. I just have to leave my charge cards home or I'll be coming home with a multi-thousand dollar piece of art, a bill I can't pay, and a look of pure Evil from my girlfriend :)

SWEET! I am going to have to motor down to Orleans to check this out!

Wow, Googled the gallery and it's right by one of my favorite Chinese places! Schwing!

In fairness, Paul threatened my life, too. ;)

Don't worry, Erik, I'm sure you and Pierce are neck and neck on many folks' hit lists...

Bear, Bova, Brin, Robinsin, Gibson? That's a superb hit list of modern great fantasy authors.

Awesome job paizo.

Patrick Curtin wrote:

gbonehead wrote:

Now if only we could get a cover by Michael Whelan.

I'm so looking forward to his show on the Cape in August. I just have to leave my charge cards home or I'll be coming home with a multi-thousand dollar piece of art, a bill I can't pay, and a look of pure Evil from my girlfriend :)

SWEET! I am going to have to motor down to Orleans to check this out!

Wow, Googled the gallery and it's right by one of my favorite Chinese places! Schwing!

Which one? I'll have to check it out.

Another suggestion for a future volume: David Weber.

I've always found him (and Elizabeth Moon, for that matter) to be really good at getting me actually engaged with the characters.

Kata. the ..... wrote:

Erik Mona wrote:

Diya wrote:

I think the word "greats" could definitely be argued against here.

Let's hear it.

I think I might use "great" at a higher level than is used here. Bova, Niven and Gibson are the only ones I would list here as "great". Anthony, Brin, Spider Robinson and Haldeman are very respectable and would fall on some people's "Great" lists and I have enjoyed some of their work. I only know R.A. Salvatore from his Forgotten Realms work and I have heard of Kim Stanley Robinson although have not read any of her works. Doctorow's name looks familiar but I studied Russian in college for 3 years so it may be just a similar name. The other four are all new names to me (Griffith, Mieville, Stross and Swanwick). I have been active reader of Science Fiction and Fantasy for a number of decades. I may have read some of those four and have definitely perused the other five. They may yet become "greats". I would argue, however, the fact that I, an active reader, have not even heard of four of them would argue that they are all NOW "greats" at this time.

Of course, even with this commentary I will read all of these authors when the Planet Stories issue arrives and may look up some of their later work once they became "great".

pssst. Kim Stanley Robinson is a man baby, yeah!

Yeah, I should have probably checked on that before the post. I did play football with a Stacey, a Leslie and a Carol and bought a lot of space art from Kim Poor, so I definitely should have known better. But it does support the comment that I have never read any of "HIS" work. I'll probably pick up his Mars trilogy just to make it up, unless someone wants to suggest other works that would be best read first.

Another suggestion for a future volume: David Weber.

Nice guy, too. I really enjoyed chatting with him at Origins.

And I wanted to kick the fanboy who showed up to the book signing session with a suitcase full of hardcovers for him to sign. And not a small one, either.

Seriously, what was this guy thinking?

I'll probably pick up his Mars trilogy just to make it up, unless someone wants to suggest other works that would be best read first.

The Mars trilogy is epic, but he has a compilation about to come out, The Best of Kim Stanley Robinson, that reviewers are enthusing over.

The reviews are pretty harsh, the first two at time of typing, but I must admit that they are sadly close to the point for some of the stories.

The book is still full of refreshing stories, but with a few duds, worse, one author actually admits that his submitted work was pretty awful, but since it was from "before he was famous" it technically fits the theme.

I would have loved to read the China Miéville story, had it been translated in readable English first. Sorry, this must have been "art" or something, but being an engineer it just got lost on my being a Philistine. I do not really care either to read about the sexual orientation of an author being forced down my throat. "Mirrors and Burnstone" is a decent short SF story on its own and I find it annoying that the author seems to have been chosen because she has introduced LGBT themes via her work.

Dan Simmons is indeed missing, but I am glad to hear that he was considered.

In conclusion, not the best "Planet Stories" volume ever, but not a disaster either.

"Mirrors and Burnstone" is a decent short SF story on its own and I find it annoying that the author seems to have been chosen because she has introduced LGBT themes via her work.

Just to clarify, Nicola wasn't chosen because of the LGBT themes in her work--all the authors were chosen based on how fond of (and familiar with) their work I am, how important and influential they are to the genre, general audience name recognition, etc. In the introductory bios, since I didn't want to just have a generic "they're famous 'cause they're famous!" entry for everyone, I really tried to focus on what I thought each author was best known for, or the areas in which they've had the most significant impact on the genre. For instance, Salvatore is best known as somebody who blew the roof off of "tie-in" fiction, while William Gibson is probably the single biggest founder of cyberpunk and modern internet culture, China has been saddled with poster-boy status for the New Weird, and Cory Doctorow is as well known for his innovations in publishing and internet punditry as for his straight-up SF. Those are all things that distinguish the authors and help set them apart, but they're *not* the primary reasons the stories were chosen.

I also completely understand why some of the stories didn't work for you--I'll admit that this is a weird book because it's specifically *not* taking the authors' absolute best stuff, and I've been hoping that the interviews and its value as a teaching tool will make up the difference with folks, both authors and casual readers. (To me, it's as much a "how to write" book as a short story anthology.) But I'm really glad you enjoyed some of the stories, and I hope that overall you found it worthwhile!

James,

Thanks for the clarification, in my defence, I did use the expression seems to in my previous post. It is just that, like others maybe, I feel a bit queezy at times at what appears to me as imposed political-correctness. There is a fine line between accepting and promoting different life-styles and I am one of those who would like the line not to be blurred.

The goal of "Before They Were Giants" while worthwile in principle was always going to be hard to pull. Quite logically, the majority of authors have expressed reservations about their earlier work, underlining the fact that they writing skills had evolved for the better since then. Thus, by the same logic, it was indeed likely that the "true first forays" were going to be anything from refreshingly candid to pretty awful (depending on personal taste of course). The book itself is true to its title though, so no complaint on this point from me.

Compilations of "best stuff" (which is a very subjective expression in itself) from famous authors have been done to death and usually regularly released and not really what "Planet Stories" should be about anyway. So again, this was an original take on a work of compilation.

"Worlds of Their Own" the other PS compilation was a better read, but then more likely to gather the better of an author's effort than one collecting earlier works. So, just to reassure you, I can say it again: apart from a few odd stories, I have enjoyed the book. It ticks the "discover an author you may never have otherwise read" box of the "Planet Stories" line design in my humble opinion.

Quite logically, the majority of authors have expressed reservations about their earlier work, underlining the fact that they writing skills had evolved for the better since then.

I do get what you're saying, though I have to point out that if you asked a bunch of authors how they feel about their most *recently* published work, a lot of them would tell you that their writing skills have evolved for the better since then.

Now with the final cover!

Which wasn't appreciated by everyone

Not trolling, just linking to a nice collection of occasionally godawful SF and Fantasy covers (someone really ought to talk to the people at Baen about font-size), of which BtWG has to be one of the better ones.

Ross Byers wrote:

Now with the final cover!

Which wasn't appreciated by everyone

Not trolling, just linking to a nice collection of occasionally godawful SF and Fantasy covers (someone really ought to talk to the people at Baen about font-size), of which BtWG has to be one of the better ones.

And, of course, the same artist did this Planet Stores cover, which kind of settles the question of whether the BTWG cover was, uh, accidental. Clearly this artist has something on their mind.