Which magic items just don't live up to the hype?

That's the question we posed in the first installment of our new weekly feature, WORMY'S WEDNESDAY WHAT?

Be it flavor text or an awesome name, some items just fall kinda flat once you actually find one. Which are YOUR suspects and rejects with a name from the Hall of Fame but whose game is closer to the Hall of Lame? Or worse, the Hall of Boring! When you're thinking magic items, which ones don't quite live up to the hype?

Staves. They can be useful if found as loot, but far too expensive to bother buying or even crafting in most cases. Even when free I find most to be sort of "Meh."

The standard-issue Ring/Amulet/Cloak of +X armor/saves. All the more ubiquitous because it's built into the system as necessary, but they're easily the most boring magical items anyone could possess, and they eat up two to four item slots that could be used for more interesting items... but not having them gets you killed. Especially if you're not a caster.

We've ditched them for a built-in, auto-scaling system in my home games, but that doesn't change either their boringness or their necessity in an untweaked game.

Also that is a badass looking Worm That Walks.

Hammer of Thunderbolts.

Completely watered down from the awesome giantkiller of old.

I would say Tiny Coffee Golem and Orthos hit it on the nose.

Staves and generic +(Number) items are both very boring unless your GM is handing out wildly overpowered staves.

As an anecdote, I could not get my players to take a Staff of the Magi in our last session.

They took the railgun instead...

I would say Tiny Coffee Golem and Orthos hit it on the nose.

Staves and generic +(Number) items are both very boring unless your GM is handing out wildly overpowered staves.

As an anecdote, I could not get my players to take a Staff of the Magi in our last session.

They took the railgun instead...

HA!

I wonder if staves and wands are more boring now because they have been made almost entirely into spell-trigger items. It's a spell-gun with charges and (with rare exceptions) that's all it does.

Back in 1st/2nd ed, staves and wands often did things that spells could not, or had extra functions besides just a spell effect.

Thoughts?

I wonder if staves and wands are more boring now because they have been made almost entirely into spell-trigger items. It's a spell-gun with charges and (with rare exceptions) that's all it does.

Back in 1st/2nd ed, staves and wands often did things that spells could not, or had extra functions besides just a spell effect.

Thoughts?

I think you could do that, but people rarely do. I suspect it's because once a wand is out of charges it's just a stick.

Edit: I imagine the added cost isn't worth it.

The 'returning' weapon enchant. Sounds good until you realize it is almost completely useless since it returns at the end of the turn.

All of them are boring. In previous editions I would be thrilled to have that ogre slaying knife that gave, like, a +10 against ogres, and would never consider selling it. It would likely be the only magic item my character would ever possess regardless of the level they reached.

With wealth by level baked right into the challenge system of 3.5/PFRPG, magic items have become required thus they are common and generally dull in my opinion.

In my games I've adopted Purple Duck Games' Legendary Items series of scaling magic items to ensure that each character has one cool unique item and I eschew other magic items aside from the occasional scroll or potion. I also have not compensated for the loss of the ubiquitous item + x; my players tell me they appreciate the increased challenge and emphasis on tactically smart combat :) Other's mileage may vary of course.

Helm of Underwater Action

would be far more fun it if brought the action of underwater to the surface, and was not so damn expensive.

Helm of Underwater Action

would be far more fun it if brought the action of underwater to the surface, and was not so damn expensive.

If memory serves there's a pearl that does the same basic thing cheaper and more effectively. I forget the name. Pearl of the sirines maybe?

I wonder if staves and wands are more boring now because they have been made almost entirely into spell-trigger items. It's a spell-gun with charges and (with rare exceptions) that's all it does.

Back in 1st/2nd ed, staves and wands often did things that spells could not, or had extra functions besides just a spell effect.

Thoughts?

This is why I prefer 1st/2nd ed magic items.

Was updating the Dungeon module "The Pit" (issue 17, excellent mod) from 1st ed to 2nd ed for a mini-tournament I'm running this weekend. Was looking at the loot in the dungeon and equipping the premade characters with magic items. In doing so I revisited a ton of 1st ed/2nd ed items and was looking at the Wand of Fire (as an example) - It was a very cool mid level utility (for combat) item!
The counting of 1s as 2s for the fireball effect, the fixed damage for the Burning Hands, fixed rounds without the need for required concentration for the Wall of Fire effect, different IN speeds for different spell uses, etc. It felt like a magic wand, not something the exactly replicated an ability my wizard could already do.

The small quirky features and deviations from listed spells made those items feel special and not just a spell multiplier (3rd ed). Same goes with potions. Same goes with everything actually.

I think magic items should be similar to existing spells, but I think they should also get a detailed entry with some small variations, perks, drawbacks or limitations that make them distinct from listed spells.

Jason Nelson wrote:

I wonder if staves and wands are more boring now because they have been made almost entirely into spell-trigger items. It's a spell-gun with charges and (with rare exceptions) that's all it does.

Back in 1st/2nd ed, staves and wands often did things that spells could not, or had extra functions besides just a spell effect.

Thoughts?

This is why I prefer 1st/2nd ed magic items.

Was updating the Dungeon module "The Pit" (issue 17, excellent mod) from 1st ed to 2nd ed for a mini-tournament I'm running this weekend. Was looking at the loot in the dungeon and equipping the premade characters with magic items. In doing so I revisited a ton of 1st ed/2nd ed items and was looking at the Wand of Fire (as an example) - It was a very cool mid level utility (for combat) item!
The counting of 1s as 2s for the fireball effect, the fixed damage for the Burning Hands, fixed rounds without the need for required concentration for the Wall of Fire effect, different IN speeds for different spell uses, etc. It felt like a magic wand, not something the exactly replicated an ability my wizard could already do.

The small quirky features and deviations from listed spells made those items feel special and not just a spell multiplier (3rd ed). Same goes with potions. Same goes with everything actually.

I think magic items should be similar to existing spells, but I think they should also get a detailed entry with some small variations, perks, drawbacks or limitations that make them distinct from listed spells.

This. So Much this.

With WBL and Ye Olde Magick Shoppe on every corner, discovering a magic item has gone from 'Oooohhh!!!' in 1e/2e, to 'Meh.' in 3.x/PF

Ring of Sustenance. Unless your GM is forcing you to track rations and starvation is actually a problem, it just wastes a couple of paragraphs in the book.

I dig the idea of scaling "magic" items, not "spell" items, that has been presented. The only problem is... that's a lot of jink to work through.

Ring of Sustenance. Unless your GM is forcing you to track rations and starvation is actually a problem, it just wastes a couple of paragraphs in the book.

I dig the idea of scaling "magic" items, not "spell" items, that has been presented. The only problem is... that's a lot of jink to work through.

I couldn't disagree more. I always have a ring of sustenance. Not eating is the least that this wonderful ring does. Only 2 hours of sleep needed? Yes please.

Plus it's cheap, which I'm a fan of.

James Langley wrote:

Ring of Sustenance. Unless your GM is forcing you to track rations and starvation is actually a problem, it just wastes a couple of paragraphs in the book.

I dig the idea of scaling "magic" items, not "spell" items, that has been presented. The only problem is... that's a lot of jink to work through.

I couldn't disagree more. I always have a ring of sustenance. Not eating is the least that this wonderful ring does. Only 2 hours of sleep needed? Yes please.

Plus it's cheap, which I'm a fan of.

As a player item - it isn't great (has it's perks) and functions as a practical/ease of play capacity - which is purely mechanical (and boring IMO). As DM item it can be a ton of fun.

Imagine an NPC adventurer gets lost after the rest of his friends die in the maze of Lord Demonomania? Don't worry, his Ring of Sustenance lets him live on as he slowly goes insane trying to find a way out. He considers removing the ring, but that week of eating rats and innate desire to live overcame that. Puts it back on and soon enough he eventually forgets how to eat (and a few other biological functions) and even imagines himself as something else beyond human - maybe immortal, maybe as master of maze?

Would also be fun to place on a prisoners arm, maybe with some form of metal secured gauntlet on top that would make it impossible to remove - then lower the poor sap in a very deep pit and wait for them to try to chew off their arm/run their head into the walls (with some kind of healing effect in the pit to mitigate self-damage).

I love the Ring of Sustenance, so much horror and torture potential.

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

James Langley wrote:

Ring of Sustenance. Unless your GM is forcing you to track rations and starvation is actually a problem, it just wastes a couple of paragraphs in the book.

I dig the idea of scaling "magic" items, not "spell" items, that has been presented. The only problem is... that's a lot of jink to work through.

I couldn't disagree more. I always have a ring of sustenance. Not eating is the least that this wonderful ring does. Only 2 hours of sleep needed? Yes please.

Plus it's cheap, which I'm a fan of.

As a player item - it isn't great (has it's perks) and functions as a practical/ease of play capacity - which is purely mechanical (and boring IMO). As DM item it can be a ton of fun.

Imagine an NPC adventurer gets lost after the rest of his friends die in the maze of Lord Demonomania? Don't worry, his Ring of Sustenance lets him live on as he slowly goes insane trying to find a way out. He considers removing the ring, but that week of eating rats and innate desire to live overcame that. Puts it back on and soon enough he eventually forgets how to eat (and a few other biological functions) and even imagines himself as something else beyond human - maybe immortal, maybe as master of maze?

Would also be fun to place on a prisoners arm, maybe with some form of metal secured gauntlet on top that would make it impossible to remove - then lower the poor sap in a very deep pit and wait for them to try to chew off their arm/run their head into the walls (with some kind of healing effect in the pit to mitigate self-damage).

I love the Ring of Sustenance, so much horror and torture potential.

Our DM used one once on an Elven monk who was set to guard a pirate ship in an underground cavern. Elves live a long time. He didn't eat. He slept very little. It was a fun encounter.

I like the ring of sustenance as a player, especially if I have a crafter. I did this with an alchemist and got in my 8 hours of crafting per day while the rest of the party was asleep!

Helm of Underwater Action

would be far more fun it if brought the action of underwater to the surface, and was not so damn expensive.

The helm was cool in 1st Ed also for some of its quirks, like the lenses that slid out to help you see underwater, and the fact that it made a bubble of air around your head instead of letting you actually breathe water (though that did inspire arguments about whether you could use it out of the water to protect yourself from poison gas).

The Helm of Underwater action is a 3E classic. Far too expensive for what is basically "Now you can breathe underwater."

Staves being too expensive to use at low levels, and not worth the investment at higher levels.

Apparatus of Kwalish. I mean, come on. What serious adventurer would ever get stuck inside one? A 6 year old kid wanting to explore underwater, sure.

Boots of striding and springing. Sure, the +10 to move is nice. But the awesome cool thing about it in 1E was the jumping ability. Come on, +9 to Jump? That lets you jump, like, 2' higher in the air, as opposed to the 10' it used to. Man, I used to bounce up so many walls with those things.

Boots of Speed. I'm not saying they're not useful...but what this is is a reusable potion of haste. Boots of Speed in 1e let you move FAST...only a higher level monk was faster. They don't even grant a move bonus now...so much for SPEED. The PF Boots should be called Boots of Haste.

Gauntlets of Ogre Power and Girdles of Giant Strength. Compared to 1E, these things have NO flavor at all. I know exactly why they were changed, but still...no flavor. Meh. Stat bonus. No rock throwing/catching. No arms only for the gauntlets. No 'I am as strong as a Hill Giant!'. Bland as can be. Compare the implications in 1E of saying "I have a Girdle of STORM GIANT STRENGTH!" versus what they are now.

Adamantine Armor. The DR is so underwhelming its hard to describe. Nobody in their right mind wears it over the Dex bonus and lightness of Mithral. ANd as inferior armor, it costs MORE!

Wands. Wands have no flavor. There is nothing special about them. A spell in a can with nothing about them different then casting it yourself...except they are too expensive to be as effective as casting the spell yourself.
Wands should have SOMETHING unique about them that doesn't break them.
So, bring backs Wands of Fire instead of Fireballs, or something.

Brilliant energy weapons. Sounds cool, until you realize they are only effective against NPC's and PC's in armor. They are utterly useless against undead and constructs, and can't even damage a brick wall.
In Short, they are tool for NPC's to kill armored PC's, and that's it.
Revise Brilliant.

Elemental Mods on all weapons. +1d6 cold damage? Seriously? That is so underwhelming that even against Fire subtype creatures, its not worth taking.

Cloak and Boots of elvenkind. In 1E they were actually effective. Now, vanilla +5 Competence bonus. Yawn.

==Aelryinth

Brilliant energy weapons. Sounds cool, until you realize they are only effective against NPC's and PC's in armor. They are utterly useless against undead and constructs, and can't even damage a brick wall.

In Short, they are tool for NPC's to kill armored PC's, and that's it.
Revise Brilliant.

Oh yes. This. This so much. The description says "Lightsaber" but the actual mechanics say "supermarket scanner that hurts humanoids".

Boots of striding and springing. Sure, the +10 to move is nice. But the awesome cool thing about it in 1E was the jumping ability. Come on, +9 to Jump? That lets you jump, like, 2' higher in the air, as opposed to the 10' it used to. Man, I used to bounce up so many walls with those things.

FYI: If you increase your speed by 10' you get a +4 bonus to your acrobatics for purposes of jumping.

If brilliant were named "Penumbral" and flavored as a soul-consuming shaft of purple black darkness that feeds on the living...Hells, it would be PERFECT. Every life-reaping undead's wet dream.

But...Brilliant? What?

==Aelryinth

Aelryinth wrote:

Boots of striding and springing. Sure, the +10 to move is nice. But the awesome cool thing about it in 1E was the jumping ability. Come on, +9 to Jump? That lets you jump, like, 2' higher in the air, as opposed to the 10' it used to. Man, I used to bounce up so many walls with those things.

FYI: If you increase your speed by 10' you get a +4 bonus to your acrobatics for purposes of jumping.

Whiiiiiiich is why I said +9 to jump...+5 from enhancement on the boots and +4 from increased movement.

Seriously, just about anything that allows non-casters increased movement options is overpriced. It's like they want you to be able to cast spells to move fast, or something.

==Aelryinth

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Aelryinth wrote:

Boots of striding and springing. Sure, the +10 to move is nice. But the awesome cool thing about it in 1E was the jumping ability. Come on, +9 to Jump? That lets you jump, like, 2' higher in the air, as opposed to the 10' it used to. Man, I used to bounce up so many walls with those things.

FYI: If you increase your speed by 10' you get a +4 bonus to your acrobatics for purposes of jumping.

Whiiiiiiich is why I said +9 to jump...+5 from enhancement on the boots and +4 from increased movement.

==Aelryinth

Ahh. Well, maybe not as good, but +4 is better than nothing.

I suppose it comes down to:

I would like magic items to be able to do things spells can't do.

I would like magic items to offer things that are actually better then cast spells at applicable levels, so non-casters have options.

I would like magic items that cater to non-casters, period. being able to cast spells should not always be better, especially when it comes to gear.

Stuff that is better when worn by non-casters, or penalizes casters when worn, would start swinging some balance back the other way.

==Aelryinth

Aelryinth wrote:

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Aelryinth wrote:

Boots of striding and springing. Sure, the +10 to move is nice. But the awesome cool thing about it in 1E was the jumping ability. Come on, +9 to Jump? That lets you jump, like, 2' higher in the air, as opposed to the 10' it used to. Man, I used to bounce up so many walls with those things.

FYI: If you increase your speed by 10' you get a +4 bonus to your acrobatics for purposes of jumping.

Whiiiiiiich is why I said +9 to jump...+5 from enhancement on the boots and +4 from increased movement.

==Aelryinth

Ahh. Well, maybe not as good, but +4 is better than nothing.

The old boots were: either 15 or 18 move 24/7; Jump 10' upwards, standing jump 15' forwards, running jump 30' forwards.

That 10' vertical jump was AWESOME.

But there's a huge premium on vertical movement in 3.5. It's like it steps on the toes of casters who have Fly, or something.

==Aelryinth

Agreed on boots of striding and springing/speed; both were very cool and interesting in their own way back in the day and now... pretty yawnsville.

Stuff that is better when worn by non-casters, or penalizes casters when worn, would start swinging some balance back the other way.

Don't most weapons fall under this category?

Boots of striding and springing. Sure, the +10 to move is nice. But the awesome cool thing about it in 1E was the jumping ability. Come on, +9 to Jump? That lets you jump, like, 2' higher in the air, as opposed to the 10' it used to. Man, I used to bounce up so many walls with those things.

I love my Boots of Striding and Springing. 30' move speed in full plate is awesome.

50' move with a surprising charge on my oracle/barbarian is even better.

Aelryinth wrote:

Stuff that is better when worn by non-casters, or penalizes casters when worn, would start swinging some balance back the other way.

Don't most weapons fall under this category?

Most armor and shields as well.

I suppose I haven't been that smart with my applications of that ring then :/ Ah well.

@Raisse: Except that spells do multiple dice of damage, and pluses only increase a modifier. Still a huge disparity there.
And that's just assuming damage. Ring of Three Wishes outshines any weapon. Except maybe one or two artifacts...

But, I suppose they do function better for full-martial characters than the gods that usually make up 1st tier...

Raisse wrote:

Aelryinth wrote:

Stuff that is better when worn by non-casters, or penalizes casters when worn, would start swinging some balance back the other way.

Don't most weapons fall under this category?

Most armor and shields as well.

Now, now, let's not get into all that.

You both know that mithral light armor has next to or no penalty for Arcane casters. A mithral light buckler gives them shield AC for nothing. Divine casters take no penalties at all, for all practical purposes.

it does not penalize a caster to use a weapon. They can pick any weapon, and if they want to use it, a single feat, the correct domain, or their class will grant them the PROFICENCY to do so. There's no weapon a non-caster can be proficient in that a caster can't also be, and generally for next to no cost.

Now, if a spellcaster took a penalty to their CASTER LEVEL for wearing armor or using a shield or wielding a greatsword...that would be a penalty to note. Stuff a caster Simply Could Not Do.

==Aelryinth

Caster level penalty rather than arcane spell failure? I like it. :)

Artanthos wrote:

Raisse wrote:

Aelryinth wrote:

Stuff that is better when worn by non-casters, or penalizes casters when worn, would start swinging some balance back the other way.

Don't most weapons fall under this category?

Most armor and shields as well.

Now, now, let's not get into all that.

You both know that mithral light armor has next to or no penalty for Arcane casters. A mithral light buckler gives them shield AC for nothing. Divine casters take no penalties at all, for all practical purposes.

it does not penalize a caster to use a weapon. They can pick any weapon, and if they want to use it, a single feat, the correct domain, or their class will grant them the PROFICENCY to do so. There's no weapon a non-caster can be proficient in that a caster can't also be, and generally for next to no cost.

Now, if a spellcaster took a penalty to their CASTER LEVEL for wearing armor or using a shield or wielding a greatsword...that would be a penalty to note. Stuff a caster Simply Could Not Do.

==Aelryinth

The statement was "most" not "all."

I wonder if staves and wands are more boring now because they have been made almost entirely into spell-trigger items. It's a spell-gun with charges and (with rare exceptions) that's all it does.

Back in 1st/2nd ed, staves and wands often did things that spells could not, or had extra functions besides just a spell effect.

Thoughts?

3rd and 4th level wands are way overpriced IMO. That is why I have never picked one up. 2nd level wands are tip-toeing the line. Staves I would not touch at their current price. For me it is an issue of not being price efficient.

Adamantine Armor. The DR is so underwhelming its hard to describe. Nobody in their right mind wears it over the Dex bonus and lightness of Mithral. ANd as inferior armor, it costs MORE!

This 1000 times.

I will also add that SR is also vastly overpriced. By the time you get it casters several levels below you have a good chance of bypassing it. Not that I like SR anyway because it also blocks helpful spells.

True on SR. It's always been fantastically expensive. It's handy against things like wands (ironic), but not much use against comparable-level spellcasters.

Personally, I think energy resistance is really expensive, too, especially when applied to armor. 18,000 for energy resistance 10? That's more than +4 armor costs.

Rite Publishing wrote:

Helm of Underwater Action

would be far more fun it if brought the action of underwater to the surface, and was not so damn expensive.

The helm was cool in 1st Ed also for some of its quirks, like the lenses that slid out to help you see underwater, and the fact that it made a bubble of air around your head instead of letting you actually breathe water (though that did inspire arguments about whether you could use it out of the water to protect yourself from poison gas).

Despite the name this item does NOTHING to help you score with mermaids.

Horn of Valhalla. Seriously, Fifty THOUSAND gold for a couple of second level barbarians? You have to be Twelfth level to afford it.. twelth. What on earth are you going to do with a second level barbarian at that level? Something farts and it dies. You could give it out for free and it wouldn't be worth the standard action.

I'll second energy resistance and the Horn. Good examples.

Spell Resistance is a flat 'miss chance' for spells they didn't want to introduce. 30% miss chance is still a miss chance. And it's more powerful against an enemy then against your own people buffing you. That's why they don't give it out.

As a magic item, however, it's even worse.

==Aelryinth

Caster level penalty rather than arcane spell failure? I like it. :)

It makes more sense, doesn't it? Wearing this stuff reduces your power. A 5 or 10% chance of spell failure a caster could chance. But always taking a -1 or -2 or -5 to caster level?

They'd stay as far from that stuff as possible.

Remember Noqual, the 'anti-magical' skymetal? I feel they completely blew it. The metal should grant an alchemical bonus to saves against magic, and an alchemical penalty to caster level while worn, equal to the enhancement bonus of the armor, minimum 1.

Instead we get this overpriced stuff nobody would wear. It's exasperating.

==Aelryinth

Remember Noqual, the 'anti-magical' skymetal? I feel they completely blew it. The metal should grant an alchemical bonus to saves against magic, and an alchemical penalty to caster level while worn, equal to the enhancement bonus of the armor, minimum 1.

Instead we get this overpriced stuff nobody would wear. It's exasperating.

==Aelryinth

I've considered for a long time doing something like this with Cold Iron.

I would stay away from it with Cold Iron. Main reason is DR. Giving casters a penalty to wield cold iron could be really bad against certain monsters.

On the other hand, it could be another reason to really, really hate demons, who knows? Although the caster that would be hit the hardest is the paladin.

Noqual doesn't have that DR problem. It's just...intereferes with magic...so it grants a resistance bonus, that anyone that can afford the armor already exceeds?! Ugh.

==Aelryinth

I wonder if staves and wands are more boring now because they have been made almost entirely into spell-trigger items. It's a spell-gun with charges and (with rare exceptions) that's all it does.

Back in 1st/2nd ed, staves and wands often did things that spells could not, or had extra functions besides just a spell effect.

Thoughts?

There's a fair number that still do.

I would stay away from it with Cold Iron. Main reason is DR. Giving casters a penalty to wield cold iron could be really bad against certain monsters.

Maybe not with weapons, but definitely with armor. Because right now there's absolutely zero reason to have cold iron armor, unless you want to cold iron armor spikes bear-hug some fey.

Well, and the fact that iron is brittle and would shatter if made into armor? :P Note that it's worse then steel as a base material in weapons for a reason.

==Aelryinth

Huh. Didn't know that. Learn something every day I guess.

I have to agree with the comments upthread about the stock items. Everybody marches around with a Ring of Protection +x, a Cloak of Resistance +x, an Amulet of Natural Armor +x, a +x magic sword, and a belt or headband of +x to a key stat. If I could redesign Pathfinder, I'd push these magic items out of existence. I'd compensate by either refining the saves and armor system to compensate or expanding the mythic surge system to give players a certain number of times per day they can use a little extra effort to make that hit roll or save roll.

A Cloak of Resistance +3 isn't really a magic item. It's a commodity. Spin as much story around the dang thing as you like, but it's still nothing more than a +3 bonus to your saves. The Cape of Effulgent Escape, on the other hand, is a flavorful magic item that is both useful and impressive.