Pathfinder Lost Omens: The Grand Bazaar

I want it all.

MINE!!!

My friend is really excited to have both mundane and magical accessibility items!

So this month's Paizo Live had a couple new spoilers for those looking forward to this book. Luis Loza was there and confirmed that there would be a snarecrafter shop in the book, with a section carved out for the much needed Kobold snares we've been missing. So now we'll get those items soon enough!

The other guest on the Lost Omens section, senior editor at Paizo Lu Pellazar, said that there is also a tattoo shop full of new magic tattoos! They're apparently being written by Avi K, another senior editor (according to Twitter, correct me if I am wrong!), and was probably the #1 category of item I wanted more of for this book!

Maybe next month, we can inquire if there's any unique Hobgoblin weapons that'll be in here, lmao.

Really hope the tattoo area allows runes to be directly applied to ones body, gaining similar effects to handwraps of mighty blows or putting runes on explorer's clothing. If only for roleplay/aesthetic reasons.

I won't be around for the live version of paizo live, but if anyone could ask about weaponized prosthetic arms, that would be awesome! Also sorry for the double post, but in my defense no one has posted here for a month

I won't be around for the live version of paizo live, but if anyone could ask about weaponized prosthetic arms, that would be awesome! Also sorry for the double post, but in my defense no one has posted here for a month

Got it.

No way!! Thank you so much!

Are the shops generic or are they tied to a specific location (even if its just through flavor)?

All of the shops are based out of Absalom and have a few connections to the Grand Bazaar of the city. It's easy enough to pluck a shop out and use it anywhere you need, however.

Am I the only one who is *very* uncomfortable with the racial and cultural stereotypes being depicted on the cover?

Particularly the gnome in the front and the orc (half orc?) in the rear left, but to a lesser extent the hairdresser and tailor are very stereotypical as well.

Am I the only one who is *very* uncomfortable with the racial and cultural stereotypes being depicted on the cover?

Particularly the gnome in the front and the orc (half orc?) in the rear left, but to a lesser extent the hairdresser and tailor are very stereotypical as well.

Hmm?

Am I the only one who is *very* uncomfortable with the racial and cultural stereotypes being depicted on the cover?

Particularly the gnome in the front and the orc (half orc?) in the rear left, but to a lesser extent the hairdresser and tailor are very stereotypical as well.

Not sure what you mean; what stereotype is being evoked? The gnome is dressed like a shepherd, and I can’t think of anything the hairdresser and tailor could be looking like. Are you objecting to the face paint on the orc?

I try to be really sensitive to this stuff, and I’m not seeing whatever you are here.

Yeah, I don't see anything stereotypical as well.

What I'm guessing, and this is just an assumption and not an attempt to convey Jared's thoughts, is how they are culturally portrayed. Like how the orc is holding the large basket thing on their head. Which I know is a big thing seen in alot of indian cultures. I suppose you could take this as a stereotype?

However, I feel like these are more akin to cultural references, and not racial stereotypes. Golarian has alot of cultural crossovers with our own world. I can't say what to be offended by or not, and it is not my intent to come across that way if I do, but I personally like this. It would be one thing if characters were mocking or judging characters for their appearance or behaviors, but I don't see that on this cover. My 2 cents

However, I feel like these are more akin to cultural references, and not racial stereotypes. Golarian has alot of cultural crossovers with our own world. I can't say what to be offended by or not, and it is not my intent to come across that way if I do, but I personally like this. It would be one thing if characters were mocking or judging characters for their appearance or behaviors, but I don't see that on this cover. My 2 cents

That was how I saw it as well.

They're just...existing. In a place that is notably cosmopolitan.

Edit: actually I can see the orc coming across as offensive, but the rest I'm kind of lost.

Am I the only one who is *very* uncomfortable with the racial and cultural stereotypes being depicted on the cover?

Particularly the gnome in the front and the orc (half orc?) in the rear left, but to a lesser extent the hairdresser and tailor are very stereotypical as well.

Not really...

As some have already shared above, I see those characteristics as cultural references, as well as a way to make it easier for newcomers to perceive the characters' roles/professions in a fantasy world, even if the baker is an orc or the hairdresser is an elf.

Yet, if you are feeling uncomfortable with their appearance, I'm sure the developers would be thankful for your contribution by sharing how you feel about it and how they could improve their approach.

The latest paizo live stream, Luis dropped that there will be an ancestry in this book, but did not say which one.

Let the speculation begin!

My guess is Witchwyrd

The latest paizo live stream, Luis dropped that there will be an ancestry in this book, but did not say which one.

Let the speculation begin!

My guess is Witchwyrd

That would be fun, and maybe offer a chassis for Kasatha to come back.

They also said there are archetypes in the book!

The latest paizo live stream, Luis dropped that there will be an ancestry in this book, but did not say which one.

Let the speculation begin!

My guess is Witchwyrd

I hope you're right, I have a strong personal connection to and love for witchwyrds.

We also learned that there's a bathysphere (an early submersible used for marine research) in there (not an item per se, but a vehicle) - which to me suggests either a general vehicle-related shop, or some kind of dock where you can rent some extra-cool aquatic vehicles.

It's not gonna be witchwyrd probably, as Luis said on Reddit there are no plans for a multi arm ancestry... They are cool though.

The only other appropriate thing I can think of are mercanes which would be.... Very odd.

Did they say it would be a new ancestry? It could be shoony.

Did they say it would be a new ancestry? It could be shoony.

Shoonies aren't new ^^'

Did they say it would be a new ancestry? It could be shoony.

Luis wouldn't set us up to speculate what the ancestry would be if it were a re-print of the Shoony. It's likely gonna be a new one, either brand new or a returning favorite.

But as Luis also said on Reddit, we can probably write off Witchwyrds and Kasathas from that list, since multi-armed ancestries are still not planned to be a thing (yet).

Sporkedup wrote:

Did they say it would be a new ancestry? It could be shoony.

Shoonies aren't new ^^'

I know, hence me asking if they specifically said it would be something new. Because if they didn't, it could be a reprint and expansion of shoonies.

I'll not hoping for that. Just musing.

Trying to think of any particularly cosmopolitan ancestry we don't have yet. All I can think of is samsaran, which seems unlikely.

GGSigmar wrote:

Sporkedup wrote:

Did they say it would be a new ancestry? It could be shoony.

Shoonies aren't new ^^'

I know, hence me asking if they specifically said it would be something new. Because if they didn't, it could be a reprint and expansion of shoonies.

I'll not hoping for that. Just musing.

Trying to think of any particularly cosmopolitan ancestry we don't have yet. All I can think of is samsaran, which seems unlikely.

He specifically did not say it would ge a new ancestry. His exact words, iirc, were that an “ancestry will be featured”. I meant to repeat that in my original post, but must have forgot as I revised it.

Honestly if we hadn’t already seen Azerketi complete with chapter listings on the side, I might wonder if they were bumped between books.

Hmmm... I kind of like it that this book resembles Magical Marketplace, but it can be messy with so many merchants. It works best if you use the contents only when the PCs are actually visiting the Grand Bazaar, or if you lift these shops and use them individually elsewhere. Or if each merchant only sells certain types of items none of the others do.

I guess I'm a bit concerned because I'd likely most often use this book in the same way as Ultimate Equipment, i.e. to equip PCs and NPCs, or to pick some items for treasure, say, in a goblin lair? It means I'm fine with shops and NPC merchants listing their wares, that's great, but I'd also want to able to quickly compare all the new runes, talismans, rings and other items when I'm choosing gear or treasure.
Thus my question is: are the items also listed (full stats) under their own chapters and headlines, such as they are in the in the Core Rulebook? Or alternatively, sold only by "The Rune Seller", "The Talisman Seller", "The Ring Seller" etcetera?

Because if Merchant #1 has 2 new runes and 5 talismans in their assortment, and Merchant #5 has 4 runes and 2 talismans, while Merchant #6 has 1 rune but no talismans... you'd need to have an amazing index, and still it'd be (IMO) a pain to use the book.

Hmmm... I kind of like it that this book resembles Magical Marketplace, but it can be messy with so many merchants. It works best if you use the contents only when the PCs are actually visiting the Grand Bazaar, or if you lift these shops and use them individually elsewhere. Or if each merchant only sells certain types of items none of the others do.

I guess I'm a bit concerned because I'd likely most often use this book in the same way as Ultimate Equipment, i.e. to equip PCs and NPCs, or to pick some items for treasure, say, in a goblin lair? It means I'm fine with shops and NPC merchants listing their wares, that's great, but I'd also want to able to quickly compare all the new runes, talismans, rings and other items when I'm choosing gear or treasure.
Thus my question is: are the items also listed (full stats) under their own chapters and headlines, such as they are in the in the Core Rulebook? Or alternatively, sold only by "The Rune Seller", "The Talisman Seller", "The Ring Seller" etcetera?

Because if Merchant #1 has 2 new runes and 5 talismans in their assortment, and Merchant #5 has 4 runes and 2 talismans, while Merchant #6 has 1 rune but no talismans... you'd need to have an amazing index, and still it'd be (IMO) a pain to use the book.

I assume everything will be nicely arranged and sortable on AoN and pf2.easytool.es soon after publication

Because if Merchant #1 has 2 new runes and 5 talismans in their assortment, and Merchant #5 has 4 runes and 2 talismans, while Merchant #6 has 1 rune but no talismans... you'd need to have an amazing index, and still it'd be (IMO) a pain to use the book.

The items are arranged into thematic shops. For example, the monster hunter shop has a number of snares, but also includes a rune and some magical ammunition. We wanted to give readers the feeling of walking into a shop and seeing a variety of items rather than just weapons or just shields or just wands. We figured this would give the players the chance to stumble upon an item they weren't necessarily looking for, but is suddenly interesting to them. Basically, we want to inspire impulse buying!

We figured this approach might make it kind of difficult for readers who prefer the categorical listings in the Core Rulebook or eventually know every item in the book. To make things easier, we have a large table in the back that lists every item in the book by level and category for easy reference, much like the treasure table in the Core Rulebook.

He specifically did not say it would ge a new ancestry. His exact words, iirc, were that an “ancestry will be featured”. I meant to repeat that in my original post, but must have forgot as I revised it.

As for the ancestry, I will say that it is a brand new ancestry. In fact, it's so brand new, it's something that's never been playable in Paizo's history, be it Pathfinder or Starfinder. :)

Ooo, Luis. Got me champing at the bit here.

A Veiled Master, perhaps?

A whole new race....man I wasn't thinking about getting this book but now I might.

Finally, a playable Paizo Golem!

Looking forward to this book even more now. Having thematically grouped flavorful items seems like a good way to find stuff for a particular type of character, and a brand new ancestry is a pleasant surprise!

Hm... Stheno, Tenome, Sasquatch, Eunemvro, Yeti, Minotaur, I dunno.

Centaur?

As for the ancestry, I will say that it is a brand new ancestry. In fact, it's so brand new, it's something that's never been playable in Paizo's history, be it Pathfinder or Starfinder. :)

This was my guess. While Mercanes and Witchwyrds make sense, they both have factors that made me think otherwise (Large size and multiple-arms respectively).

Now the real question would be whether or not this Ancestry has ever be featured I Pathfinder or Starfinder in any capacity (i.e. NPC or monster), or if it is truly and wholly new.

I'd imagine they are a ancestry of people with a penchant for mercantilism and trade, just given the overall scope of the book.

Taking a quick romp through all the Bestiarys for PF1 and PF2, I didn't find anything that seemed to fit other than the Witchwyrds and Marcanes.

So I'm guessing an entirely new ancestry.

Hmm. It could be the Stheno, which fits what Luis has told us (never been playable in Pathfinder or Starfinder). I don't think they'd have made such a point of mentioning the Stheno if they didn't have a proper introduction coming up relatively soon.

It could also be an ancestry that has something other than a mercantile bent to their culture and still be related to the overall theme of the book, such as an ancestry related somehow to the products/commodities in the book. We already know we are getting the Automaton in Guns & Gears, so it won't be that. But, it could be something in a similar vein. The ancestry could possibly be something like a sentient Golems, Gremlins, Tsukomogami, an animated item or magical weapon/armor with intelligence, a Tattoo Guardian, a Living Symbol, or even an unbound Familiar that has lost its master, survived, and even become more powerful somehow. I mean if we can get Leshies, Fleshwarps, Sprites, and Automatons for an ancestry, why not one of these, too?

Hm... Stheno, Tenome, Sasquatch, Eunemvro, Yeti, Minotaur, I dunno.

I have noticed a pattern among monsters intended to be PC ancestries: They tend to have their own ancestry name as one of their keywords -- definitely more than the alignment, size, and type of most creatures. Exceptions tend to be closely related to other PC ancestries (such as hobgoblin having goblin as a keyword).

Of the monsters listed above, the only one that follows the pattern is the Stheno. If it isn't the Stheno, it would have to be something that we don't yet have a generic bestiary entry for.

I mean it still could be one of the other ones, because its not like there is rule for "you can't add ancestry trait afterwards" ;p

Sporkedup wrote:

Hm... Stheno, Tenome, Sasquatch, Eunemvro, Yeti, Minotaur, I dunno.

I have noticed a pattern among monsters intended to be PC ancestries: They tend to have their own ancestry name as one of their keywords -- definitely more than the alignment, size, and type of most creatures. Exceptions tend to be closely related to other PC ancestries (such as hobgoblin having goblin as a keyword).

Of the monsters listed above, the only one that follows the pattern is the Stheno. If it isn't the Stheno, it would have to be something that we don't yet have a generic bestiary entry for.

I believe I saw someone from Paizo outright dismiss this, that traits have no bearing on their likelihood as an ancestry.

Hm... Stheno, Tenome, Sasquatch, Eunemvro, Yeti, Minotaur, I dunno.

Minotaur I would say could work, but since they stated it hasn't been seen in Starfinder either I'd have to write that one-off due to the Nuar, which are literally descended from the Minotaurs within Absalom Proper

Sporkedup wrote:

Hm... Stheno, Tenome, Sasquatch, Eunemvro, Yeti, Minotaur, I dunno.

Minotaur I would say could work, but since they stated it hasn't been seen in Starfinder either I'd have to write that one-off due to the Nuar, which are literally descended from the Minotaurs within Absalom Proper

Worth noting there’s a brief mention of minotaurs living among humans in the AoE article on Vudra, so we may see them in 2e eventually. I’d love that, personally; I have a cow fursona!

David knott 242 wrote:

Sporkedup wrote:

Hm... Stheno, Tenome, Sasquatch, Eunemvro, Yeti, Minotaur, I dunno.

I have noticed a pattern among monsters intended to be PC ancestries: They tend to have their own ancestry name as one of their keywords -- definitely more than the alignment, size, and type of most creatures. Exceptions tend to be closely related to other PC ancestries (such as hobgoblin having goblin as a keyword).

Of the monsters listed above, the only one that follows the pattern is the Stheno. If it isn't the Stheno, it would have to be something that we don't yet have a generic bestiary entry for.

I believe I saw someone from Paizo outright dismiss this, that traits have no bearing on their likelihood as an ancestry.

The relevant quote

Ly'ualdre wrote:

Speaking of Seugathis, I found it rather interesting that they were given a trait tag for their Ancestry while their creators, the Neothelid, do not. It jumped out at me immediately when I saw it.

On the matter or Serpentfolk, if always kind of assumed they were an analog to the Illithid, but knowing for certain that they are is very cool. That said, I can understand and even agree with Serpentfolk as a GM only tool. Although, I still like my idea of a Yuan-Ti style "Lesser Serpentfolk", but I digress.

Mindflayers were pretty prevalent in D&D iirc. I don't feel like Serpentfolk have had nearly as much attention. Is like to see that changed if possible.

Out of curiosity, does Pathfinder have a Beholder analog? I can't really think of any Pathfinder monsters that seem to fill a similar role.

Also, maybe this thread should now be called "Monsters.. can I play them?" Lol

The methodology of what does and doesn't get its own trait tag is... kinda random. Probably best to not read TOO much into that.

And no, we don't have a beholder analog. That monster is so unusual and iconic and recognizable that it's something I never had much of an interest in trying to do a replacement for, to be honest.

Sporkedup wrote:

Hm... Stheno, Tenome, Sasquatch, Eunemvro, Yeti, Minotaur, I dunno.

Minotaur I would say could work, but since they stated it hasn't been seen in Starfinder either I'd have to write that one-off due to the Nuar, which are literally descended from the Minotaurs within Absalom Proper

I would say that still leaves Minotaur on the table. In another post, James Jacobs mentioned that one of the benefits of the PF2 ancestry system is that you don’t have to ask players to settle for a powered down version of a bestiary entry; base ancestries are already powered down, so it’s only a matter of time before you can come close to what is going on in the bestiary.

They may well be looking forward to getting to put the real thing in game instead of Nuar, proud as they probably are of that too.

It could also be an ancestry that has something other than a mercantile bent to their culture and still be related to the overall theme of the book, such as an ancestry related somehow to the products/commodities in the book. We already know we are getting the Automaton in Guns & Gears, so it won't be that. But, it could be something in a similar vein. The ancestry could possibly be something like a sentient Golems, Gremlins, Tsukomogami, an animated item or magical weapon/armor with intelligence, a Tattoo Guardian, a Living Symbol, or even an unbound Familiar that has lost its master, survived, and even become more powerful somehow. I mean if we can get Leshies, Fleshwarps, Sprites, and Automatons for an ancestry, why not one of these, too?

Am I the only person that has developed an irrepressible desire to see a ancestry of sentient golems based on the Paizo Golem? Especially after seeing that art for PaizoCon 2021.

Also, on the matter of Nuar; I find it very interesting that there is literally a Minotaur in Absolom that bears their Ancestral name as his own name: Nuar Spiritskin.

Um... can we have raw material list too? Some of adventure gears doesn't have exact one.

Aren't there a ton of centaurs on absolam that we don't have a lot of info about?

Asgetrion wrote:

Because if Merchant #1 has 2 new runes and 5 talismans in their assortment, and Merchant #5 has 4 runes and 2 talismans, while Merchant #6 has 1 rune but no talismans... you'd need to have an amazing index, and still it'd be (IMO) a pain to use the book.

The items are arranged into thematic shops. For example, the monster hunter shop has a number of snares, but also includes a rune and some magical ammunition. We wanted to give readers the feeling of walking into a shop and seeing a variety of items rather than just weapons or just shields or just wands. We figured this would give the players the chance to stumble upon an item they weren't necessarily looking for, but is suddenly interesting to them. Basically, we want to inspire impulse buying!

We figured this approach might make it kind of difficult for readers who prefer the categorical listings in the Core Rulebook or eventually know every item in the book. To make things easier, we have a large table in the back that lists every item in the book by level and category for easy reference, much like the treasure table in the Core Rulebook.

Thanks for your swift reply, Luis!

I thought about it, and yeah, it'd be silly if every shop only sells items from a single category. In this case, making a compromise is hard, unless you want to double the page count; you either publish a book with thematic shops, or it's a book that resembles Ultimate Equipment. I believe the table you mentioned will help a lot with what I had in mind! :)

I'll admit, the idea behind this book is kind of neat; for a GM running their game in Absalom, it's priceless. As for myself, I can always lift shops from it and place them in Vellumis, for example (that is where my next campaign is going to take place).