paizo.com Recent Posts in Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDF Discussionpaizo.com Recent Posts in Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDF Discussion2018-09-14T22:02:47Z2018-09-14T22:02:47ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDFStSwordhttps://paizo.com/products/btpya1rs/discuss?Alternate-Paths-Martial-Magic#132018-07-08T15:21:46Z2018-07-07T00:41:22Z<p>Review up.</p>
<p>If anyone has any question my review didn't cover, feel free to ask.</p>Review up.
If anyone has any question my review didn't cover, feel free to ask.StSword2018-07-07T00:41:22ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDFLittle Red Goblin Games (alias of Scott_UAT)https://paizo.com/products/btpya1rs/discuss?Alternate-Paths-Martial-Magic#122018-07-06T14:52:23Z2018-07-06T14:52:23Z<p>In the introduction of the alt path series it always talks about the fact that the classes in the book are generally aimed at advanced players who are already familiar with the classes/options available to them and want to play something new/unexpected. With that in mind, I wouldn’t advocate for a curse-wielder in your standard 4 person party. If you’re using Alt. Path material, there shouldn’t be anything standard about your party.</p>
<p>That having been said, if you wish to fit them in there you can, as described in the preceding post, fit them more into that skill monkey/bard/party face role. You can end up with solid skills via the aforementioned feats, I’d probably recommend going wondrous item / blast build. A lot of your “buffs” come from the fact that your foes will end up with debuffs (Your target’s AC isn’t higher but their foes attack roll is proportionally lower).</p>In the introduction of the alt path series it always talks about the fact that the classes in the book are generally aimed at advanced players who are already familiar with the classes/options available to them and want to play something new/unexpected. With that in mind, I wouldn’t advocate for a curse-wielder in your standard 4 person party. If you’re using Alt. Path material, there shouldn’t be anything standard about your party.
That having been said, if you wish to fit them in there you...Little Red Goblin Games (alias of Scott_UAT)2018-07-06T14:52:23ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDFVolvogghttps://paizo.com/products/btpya1rs/discuss?Alternate-Paths-Martial-Magic#112018-07-05T13:34:30Z2018-07-05T13:34:30Z<p>@ Little Red Goblin Games ... thanks for the response! Your summary is pretty much spot on to my own thoughts. However, it's also frustrating the bloat that has occurred due to the number of "5th wheel" type classes. Don't get me wrong though, the classes are always interesting and/or unique and flavorful I just wish that more of them could be considered for a "core" group of players. In light of this, if one wanted to make the curse-wielder a candidate for your standard 4 man adventuring crew, what changes could be made to accomplish this? Possibly a tweak to weapon proficiencies, good fortitude save progression and an additional 2 skill points per level? Optionally, what would be really interesting is if there were options available to the curse-wielder similar in affect to the vigilante's specializations. Any thoughts on this?</p>
<p>Cheers
<br />
Volf</p>@ Little Red Goblin Games ... thanks for the response! Your summary is pretty much spot on to my own thoughts. However, it's also frustrating the bloat that has occurred due to the number of "5th wheel" type classes. Don't get me wrong though, the classes are always interesting and/or unique and flavorful I just wish that more of them could be considered for a "core" group of players. In light of this, if one wanted to make the curse-wielder a candidate for your standard 4 man adventuring...Volvogg2018-07-05T13:34:30ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDFLittle Red Goblin Games (alias of Scott_UAT)https://paizo.com/products/btpya1rs/discuss?Alternate-Paths-Martial-Magic#102018-07-04T19:13:12Z2018-07-04T19:13:12Z<p>@Volvogg
<br />
So one thing you need to keep in mind for the Curse-Wielder is that they ARE a spotlight class (like the bard, or as you say “5th wheel”). They often find themselves in the (unchained) Rogue position where, while they are a debuffer, they “can do the thing”.</p>
<p>Weapons
<br />
Your proficiency is generally going to be determined by what you take as your cursed bond. If light armor is unsuited to you, a heavy curse bound armor is a great idea for you. Weapons are a little rougher; obviously selecting a cursed weapon gives you proficiency with any one weapon you want, but what happens when you select armor or a wondrous item? Well, you will lack a bit in the damage provided by your weapon but your damage is not going to come from your weapon’s damage dice. It’s mostly from power surge and, as a medium BAB (+15 @20th) class you’re probably not a damage beast anyway (except maybe with a cursed weapon). Your big contribution on that front is gonna be your cursed strike and the debuffs it inflicts.</p>
<p>Playing One
<br />
Think of this more like an anti-bard. They are probably going to hit you, maybe do some damage, but then the target is going to be totally hobled. To get that boost to hit (typically 1/4th level to hit) an armor user can take weaponized armor and a weapon user gets that off the bat. A wondrous item user is a little more “spellcastery” (perhaps “utility-focused” is a better phrase) than a straight damage dealer; their mystic curse can be devastating if you select the correct spell. They also are not hugely in need to a weapon in many instances. Taking something like power blast (which is a ranged touch @ 60 ft) that can instill a debuff (via cursed blast) more or less negates your need in that regards (medium BAB vs touch for a huge debuff like bestow curse, even with an associated Will save, is awesome).</p>
<p>Builds
<br />
You can totally play the “I am a cursed sword dude” if you pick a weapon as your cursed bond. You’ll end up playing something like a debuff rogue, though they are not generally “martial, I hit you with a stick” kinda dudes. If you pick your evolutions correctly they can end up a ranged shutdown character (ala the cursed blast line), a skill monkey (cursed wondrous item, Piercing Insight, Scholar Of Old, Ancient Whispers, etc).</p>
<p>(Btw legitimately appreciate the feedback)</p>
<p>@StSword
<br />
Sagebeast is a little weird (but what isn’t?)
<br />
On the most basic level it’s a class that says, “I’m a wizard until I run out of my spells per day, then I become a fighter”.
<br />
This doesn’t really cover everything as they are not “full on wizards” (less spells per day and the like) and they don’t really become a “fighter”. Their fighter side ends up being “so I let the troll spirit I have sealed within me out. I get some troll abilities”. You also have ways to burn spell slots on some of your monstrous abilities before you run out of spells (and to help you burn them down quick when/if you need to).</p>
<p>And we always have a standing offer of, “Hey, we’ll send you a copy if you do a review for us.” We don’t require it to be a positive review so long as it’s fair and well thought out.</p>@Volvogg
So one thing you need to keep in mind for the Curse-Wielder is that they ARE a spotlight class (like the bard, or as you say “5th wheel”). They often find themselves in the (unchained) Rogue position where, while they are a debuffer, they “can do the thing”.
Weapons
Your proficiency is generally going to be determined by what you take as your cursed bond. If light armor is unsuited to you, a heavy curse bound armor is a great idea for you. Weapons are a little rougher; obviously...Little Red Goblin Games (alias of Scott_UAT)2018-07-04T19:13:12ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDFStSwordhttps://paizo.com/products/btpya1rs/discuss?Alternate-Paths-Martial-Magic#92018-07-04T19:03:18Z2018-07-01T21:28:23Z<p>As is normal for the LRGG alternate path books, this has some interesting class concepts in it.</p>
<p>Thanks to the preview I already know about the Beasts. Heck, I've already thought up two more possible expansions- A psionic equivalent, someone implanted with crystals to absorb psychic powers, and a blue mage trick of copying powers you see used. </p>
<p>But would anyone be kind enough to give a rundown of the Sagebeasts? </p>
<p>Not that they are the only other class that interests me, but that is the one that I really don't want to wait until I become unbroke enough to buy this to learn more about.</p>As is normal for the LRGG alternate path books, this has some interesting class concepts in it.
Thanks to the preview I already know about the Beasts. Heck, I've already thought up two more possible expansions- A psionic equivalent, someone implanted with crystals to absorb psychic powers, and a blue mage trick of copying powers you see used.
But would anyone be kind enough to give a rundown of the Sagebeasts?
Not that they are the only other class that interests me, but that is the one...StSword2018-07-01T21:28:23ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDFVolvogghttps://paizo.com/products/btpya1rs/discuss?Alternate-Paths-Martial-Magic#82018-07-04T19:08:39Z2018-07-01T17:36:03Z<p>Picked this up and as usual I am liking what I have read so far. However, one gripe that I have is the Curse-Wielder with it's limited proficiencies and only one good save. For a class that has one shtick going for it (debuffing) it's lacking a bit of versatility. As they have to inflict their debuffing via an attack I would think the class would have a few decent proficiencies baked into it, as well, being that the class is rather combat focused I would have thought a decent fortitude save and medium armor proficiency makes sense. As it stands now I am unable to craft anything that really makes sense from a player perspective (that is 4 players, each filling a specific role) without having to expend feats to shore up some of the issues I have outlined. In a nutshell, I am finding it difficult to pinpoint exactly what the class is useful for. To me it seems like it's another "5th" wheel class that is nice to have if you are running a larger group.</p>
<p>Cheers
<br />
Volf</p>Picked this up and as usual I am liking what I have read so far. However, one gripe that I have is the Curse-Wielder with it's limited proficiencies and only one good save. For a class that has one shtick going for it (debuffing) it's lacking a bit of versatility. As they have to inflict their debuffing via an attack I would think the class would have a few decent proficiencies baked into it, as well, being that the class is rather combat focused I would have thought a decent fortitude save...Volvogg2018-07-01T17:36:03ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDFVM mercenariohttps://paizo.com/products/btpya1rs/discuss?Alternate-Paths-Martial-Magic#72018-07-04T21:39:14Z2018-07-01T17:17:59Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Little Red Goblin Games wrote:</div><blockquote>Classes generally have a general page range and while we have lots of ideas on how to expand it; that was where it ended up at. We'd love to do an expansion on it if it gets enough traction to warrant it! </blockquote><p>Oh, I want this. I don't know how well Tome of Tomes did back in the day, but I would definetly buy an Alternate Paths: Alternate Archetypes. I would love archetypes for the Undying, Guardian, Thane, Warmonger, Lantern, Templar, Avatar, Calculator and Sapper.
</p>
Maybe add in archetypes for some of the standalone classes like Godhand, Vector and Steel Guard. Or more archetypes for Gonzo classes, I know my group would love more archetypes for Henshin Hero/Magical Girl so every one at the table can play a Henshin Hero of a different archetype while still being a group of Power Rangers.</p>Little Red Goblin Games wrote:Classes generally have a general page range and while we have lots of ideas on how to expand it; that was where it ended up at. We'd love to do an expansion on it if it gets enough traction to warrant it!
Oh, I want this. I don't know how well Tome of Tomes did back in the day, but I would definetly buy an Alternate Paths: Alternate Archetypes. I would love archetypes for the Undying, Guardian, Thane, Warmonger, Lantern, Templar, Avatar, Calculator and Sapper.
...VM mercenario2018-07-01T17:17:59ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDFStSwordhttps://paizo.com/products/btpya1rs/discuss?Alternate-Paths-Martial-Magic#62018-07-01T18:19:56Z2018-06-28T22:16:48Z<p>Well can't blame you, just looking at the names of the optional rules- universal spell combat, spellblade, magic knight, battle mages, cosmic magic, any of those, going by the names, could have been about magic enhanced combat along the lines of SoM, PoW, or Necromancer's Book of Martial Action 1&2's improved combat options.</p>Well can't blame you, just looking at the names of the optional rules- universal spell combat, spellblade, magic knight, battle mages, cosmic magic, any of those, going by the names, could have been about magic enhanced combat along the lines of SoM, PoW, or Necromancer's Book of Martial Action 1&2's improved combat options.StSword2018-06-28T22:16:48ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDFBrother Fenhttps://paizo.com/products/btpya1rs/discuss?Alternate-Paths-Martial-Magic#52018-07-01T18:19:55Z2018-06-28T17:08:16Z<p>Thanks for the clarification. </p>
<p>StSword had the good ideas. I'm the confused one. lol</p>Thanks for the clarification.
StSword had the good ideas. I'm the confused one. lolBrother Fen2018-06-28T17:08:16ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDFLittle Red Goblin Games (alias of Scott_UAT)https://paizo.com/products/btpya1rs/discuss?Alternate-Paths-Martial-Magic#42018-06-25T17:55:45Z2018-06-25T17:50:58Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">StSword wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Brother Fen wrote:</div><blockquote> Cool. Looks like another alternative to Path of War and Spheres of Might/Power. </blockquote><p>I wouldn't say that.
<p>While I'm sadly too too broke to buy this magnificent product right now, I did check out the preview on rpgnow which includes the optional rules.</p>
<p>Path of war and spheres of might are about enhancing the abilities of warriors, this book's alternate rules are about enhancing the martial power of spellcasters, which is a bit different. </p>
<p>That said, the optional rule "metamagic weapons" could be used to allow warriors to have essentially metaweapon feats, it's not like most metamagic feats have prerequisites non spellcasters can't meet in pathfinder. </p>
<p>So a fighter with bouncing arrows, monks beating up ghosts with ectoplasmic fist strikes, archers firing seeking arrows, etc. </p>
<p>While that sounds fun and gives warriors some help, I wouldn't call it a rival to SoM or PoW without adding a whole lot of metamagic feats. </p>
<p>Unless you mean a replacement as in adding more fighty classes with exotic abilities, which if Beasts are any indication this book does have covered. </p>
<p>Love Beasts by the way, I read about them and I just couldn't help but see lots of ways to expand it- Beasts who gain their powers by sorcerer like heritage, android Beasts whose powers are technomagical tinkering, alchemical beasts, racial paths/archetypes for Beasts who draw upon their kitsune/dhampir/skinwalker/elemental heritage, etc. </blockquote><p>We love the Spheres books and Path of War too but like Brother Fen said this book's systems are less extensive/invasive systems that gives martial and magic characters the ability to blend together a bit using modifications to the existing system.
<p>And I really like your ideas for expanding the content of Beast Fen, very creative! Classes generally have a general page range and while we have lots of ideas on how to expand it; that was where it ended up at. We'd love to do an expansion on it if it gets enough traction to warrant it!</p>StSword wrote:Brother Fen wrote: Cool. Looks like another alternative to Path of War and Spheres of Might/Power.
I wouldn't say that. While I'm sadly too too broke to buy this magnificent product right now, I did check out the preview on rpgnow which includes the optional rules.
Path of war and spheres of might are about enhancing the abilities of warriors, this book's alternate rules are about enhancing the martial power of spellcasters, which is a bit different.
That said, the optional...Little Red Goblin Games (alias of Scott_UAT)2018-06-25T17:50:58ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDFStSwordhttps://paizo.com/products/btpya1rs/discuss?Alternate-Paths-Martial-Magic#32018-06-25T17:55:50Z2018-06-22T21:15:55Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Brother Fen wrote:</div><blockquote> Cool. Looks like another alternative to Path of War and Spheres of Might/Power. </blockquote><p>I wouldn't say that.
<p>While I'm sadly too too broke to buy this magnificent product right now, I did check out the preview on rpgnow which includes the optional rules.</p>
<p>Path of war and spheres of might are about enhancing the abilities of warriors, this book's alternate rules are about enhancing the martial power of spellcasters, which is a bit different. </p>
<p>That said, the optional rule "metamagic weapons" could be used to allow warriors to have essentially metaweapon feats, it's not like most metamagic feats have prerequisites non spellcasters can't meet in pathfinder. </p>
<p>So a fighter with bouncing arrows, monks beating up ghosts with ectoplasmic fist strikes, archers firing seeking arrows, etc. </p>
<p>While that sounds fun and gives warriors some help, I wouldn't call it a rival to SoM or PoW without adding a whole lot of metamagic feats. </p>
<p>Unless you mean a replacement as in adding more fighty classes with exotic abilities, which if Beasts are any indication this book does have covered. </p>
<p>Love Beasts by the way, I read about them and I just couldn't help but see lots of ways to expand it- Beasts who gain their powers by sorcerer like heritage, android Beasts whose powers are technomagical tinkering, alchemical beasts, racial paths/archetypes for Beasts who draw upon their kitsune/dhampir/skinwalker/elemental heritage, etc.</p>Brother Fen wrote:Cool. Looks like another alternative to Path of War and Spheres of Might/Power.
I wouldn't say that. While I'm sadly too too broke to buy this magnificent product right now, I did check out the preview on rpgnow which includes the optional rules.
Path of war and spheres of might are about enhancing the abilities of warriors, this book's alternate rules are about enhancing the martial power of spellcasters, which is a bit different.
That said, the optional rule "metamagic...StSword2018-06-22T21:15:55ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDFBrother Fenhttps://paizo.com/products/btpya1rs/discuss?Alternate-Paths-Martial-Magic#22018-06-25T17:46:02Z2018-06-22T19:40:02Z<p>Cool. Looks like another alternative to Path of War and Spheres of Might/Power.</p>Cool. Looks like another alternative to Path of War and Spheres of Might/Power.Brother Fen2018-06-22T19:40:02ZForums: Product Discussion: Alternate Paths: Martial Magic (PFRPG) PDFRick Kunz (Webstore Coordinator)https://paizo.com/products/btpya1rs/discuss?Alternate-Paths-Martial-Magic#12018-06-22T17:41:19Z2018-06-22T17:41:19Z<p>Now Available!</p>Now Available!Rick Kunz (Webstore Coordinator)2018-06-22T17:41:19Z