Set |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Proteans need to be like 1st edition AD&D's 'Hordelings' (or the mutant creature template), with a base chassis (with modifiable HD and size) and a list of flashy extras you can add-on, so that, with one four-page entry, you can make dozens of wildly different proteans.
If there's any 'race' of Outsiders that shouldn't have preset 'types,' it's the proteans!
Hymn of Entropic Electrons |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Proteans need to be like 1st edition AD&D's 'Hordelings' (or the mutant creature template), with a base chassis (with modifiable HD and size) and a list of flashy extras you can add-on, so that, with one four-page entry, you can make dozens of wildly different proteans.
If there's any 'race' of Outsiders that shouldn't have preset 'types,' it's the proteans!
Are you trying to impose your specific ideas on us proteans? Am I being detained?!
Todd Stewart Contributor |
13 people marked this as a favorite. |
Proteans need to be like 1st edition AD&D's 'Hordelings' (or the mutant creature template), with a base chassis (with modifiable HD and size) and a list of flashy extras you can add-on, so that, with one four-page entry, you can make dozens of wildly different proteans.
If there's any 'race' of Outsiders that shouldn't have preset 'types,' it's the proteans!
You could also very much make the case that the major protean types seen are an artifact of their choruses and an artifact of the fact that the local Maelstrom that denizens of The Great Beyond cosmology ever see is influenced by the interaction of the Maelstrom with the Abyss and later all the other outer planes.
In the immediate, local environment of an infected, festering wound you'll see a massive number of immune cells, while deeper into healthy tissue you won't. Deep into the Cerulean Void things get F'ing weird, and it goes on forever. Golarion's cosmology is a tidal shallow of an infinite and infinitely amazing/terrifying ocean, metaphorically speaking.
James Jacobs Creative Director |
22 people marked this as a favorite. |
The reason proteans look the way they do is because they're one of the most ancient of all forms of life, and so I asked the artists to build them with serpentine bodies and the heads of prehistoric sea creatures, to represent the fact that they're ancient things and, metaphorically, existed before the first creatures evolved onto land (aka before the first mortals appeared in solid realms).
There's plenty of variety among those basic constraints, but there's always enough to identify them.
Chaos does not always mean "without identifiable features." That's randomness. Randomness is certainly chaotic, but chaos is not constrained by randomness.
Ched Greyfell |
I'm sure I'm not alone in being on the fence about a hardcover book with all sorts of new stuff... when a new edition is coming out.
Basically, I guess my question is will non-stat, or fluff, info still be useful (canon) across editions. For instance, can I still consider the massive library of campaign setting material as official as ever, just disregarding stats that (will) no longer apply?
James Jacobs Creative Director |
11 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm sure I'm not alone in being on the fence about a hardcover book with all sorts of new stuff... when a new edition is coming out.
Basically, I guess my question is will non-stat, or fluff, info still be useful (canon) across editions. For instance, can I still consider the massive library of campaign setting material as official as ever, just disregarding stats that (will) no longer apply?
Absolutely. We're designing the 2nd edition of the game to work seamlessly with our world lore. In-world, the difference between editions should be more or less invisible.
GM Rednal |
That's one thing I'm super happy about. XD I always get a little bit worried about things like massive pantheon changes between editions. ("These are the most-worshiped deities in a region right now" isn't a concern for me. "Half the deities die every couple of years" is.)
I'm also really looking forward to Planar Adventures - I agree with some of the posters above that the neutral figures have felt a bit lacking in the game, and I'd like to see how they're supported in this book. ^^
Todd Stewart Contributor |
8 people marked this as a favorite. |
The reason proteans look the way they do is because they're one of the most ancient of all forms of life, and so I asked the artists to build them with serpentine bodies and the heads of prehistoric sea creatures, to represent the fact that they're ancient things and, metaphorically, existed before the first creatures evolved onto land (aka before the first mortals appeared in solid realms).
There's plenty of variety among those basic constraints, but there's always enough to identify them.
Chaos does not always mean "without identifiable features." That's randomness. Randomness is certainly chaotic, but chaos is not constrained by randomness.
Chiming in in agreement with what James said, I know that I've tried to emphasize in proteans' flavor text that they aren't just simply random all the time (though a particular one might be, but there's no absolutes or hard rules like that for their behavior - such a restriction is anathema).
On one level each Chorus has their own particular motivations (though each protean in that chorus might go about promoting that purpose in different ways and capacities, etc). There is apparent method to their madness, except when there isn't for some of them. The intent is that you genuinely shouldn't know what to expect with them, unless you know their Chorus then you have some vague notion of what 'might' happen.
But keep in mind that what might -seem- to be emergent order is more often an illusion than not, a perversion of an axiomite, devil, or archon's idea of Law: something like nails on a chalkboard at best to such creatures, and more likely a mind-twisting nightmare if such a Lawful being sought to understand it. Look too deep and you'd prone to pull the curtain of expectations and illusory order aside only to hear the slithering laughter of an innumerable number of hissing voices looming behind it, stretching out forever. Such is liable not to go particularly well for the average mortal at the very least.
They combine a bit of paradox, being both creatures of manifest whimsy and freedom, yet with the veneer of apparent pseudo-structure in their freewheeling, myriad choruses swimming the depths and singing the songs of the Speakers, and each Chorus singing a different and unique tune. But of course the proteans would see nothing wrong with that, even as it boggles the minds of most every other creature.
At least that's my rambling take on it. :)
nighttree |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm sure I'm not alone in being on the fence about a hardcover book with all sorts of new stuff... when a new edition is coming out.
Basically, I guess my question is will non-stat, or fluff, info still be useful (canon) across editions. For instance, can I still consider the massive library of campaign setting material as official as ever, just disregarding stats that (will) no longer apply?
Naw....I'm likely not moving to 2E....so I'll take what I can get for 1E ;)
Sara Marie Customer Service Manager |
21 people marked this as a favorite. |
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Seventh Seal |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Can't wait to see stats for the Lady of Pain and the Paizo take on Sigil.
Any chance Tim Butler can legally bring any Planescape stuff with him?
Unlikely for anything you've just requested: both The Lady of Pain and Sigil (the City of), as well as much of Planescape, are Wizards IP & so cannot be used by Paizo.
Unfortunately.
A'kin, The Friendly Fiend |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
General Dissa Ray. wrote:Can't wait to see stats for the Lady of Pain and the Paizo take on Sigil.
Any chance Tim Butler can legally bring any Planescape stuff with him?
Unlikely for anything you've just requested: both The Lady of Pain and Sigil (the City of), as well as much of Planescape, are Wizards IP & so cannot be used by Paizo.
Unfortunately.
I'm sure I have something in the back to help you with that dear... we've had an influx from Krynn lately, and I'm the same will happen from Golarion once this delightful little tome gets released.
Dean HS Jones |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
AmbassadoroftheDominion wrote:... the suspense is killing me, and since I don't have a DeLorean, I can't put a flux capacitor in it and jump to June to buy a copy.I would recommend against trying that. I have lost track of how many great Paizo products have been removed from the timestream because of accidental time travel paradoxes. ;)
I mean, it's cool that the Time Thief survived as a 3PP option thanks to Owen, but I miss being able to play one in PFS like in the original timeline.
Gorbacz |
9 people marked this as a favorite. |
So uh War for the Crown's third book's add seems to have the new cover for Planar Adventures. And now I want to know what the heck is that creature because its so cool looking
(it kind of looks like xenomorph with tentacles and mandibles?)
How can you be so cruel to Dragon78? Not only are there a fey and an incorporeal outsider in WftC ep.3 bestiary, but there's also the Planar Adventures cover artwork featuring the *WINDOW CRASHES* what ... what are you? *SCREAMS, SLITHERING NOISES* NOOOOOO! GET IT OUT OF ME! GET IT OUT!
Todd Stewart Contributor |
7 people marked this as a favorite. |
So uh War for the Crown's third book's add seems to have the new cover for Planar Adventures. And now I want to know what the heck is that creature because its so cool looking
(it kind of looks like xenomorph with tentacles and mandibles?)
O.O
...
:D
I'm the happiest person alive right now based on that cover.
Rysky |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
CorvusMask wrote:So uh War for the Crown's third book's add seems to have the new cover for Planar Adventures. And now I want to know what the heck is that creature because its so cool looking
(it kind of looks like xenomorph with tentacles and mandibles?)
O.O
...
:D
I'm the happiest person alive right now based on that cover.
*gears turn*
ASTRADAEMON!!!!
CorvusMask |
Todd Stewart wrote:CorvusMask wrote:So uh War for the Crown's third book's add seems to have the new cover for Planar Adventures. And now I want to know what the heck is that creature because its so cool looking
(it kind of looks like xenomorph with tentacles and mandibles?)
O.O
...
:D
I'm the happiest person alive right now based on that cover.
*gears turn*
ASTRADAEMON!!!!
Uh, I guess it could be astradaemon(it was first thing that popped to my head but I was like "Astradaemons don't have tentacles and mandibles" until I just now reminded myself they actually do <_<) with different design yeah now that I think about it. I really strongly associate astradaemons as colorful with red and black though, but it is really cool design in the cover
James Jacobs Creative Director |
James Jacobs Creative Director |
Todd Stewart Contributor |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Damn, I love the placeholder art, but that cover is dope.
(And that goes double for those of us to have been reading Todd's storyhour over a decade now)
Not the same critter, just the homebrew monster served as partial inspiration for the Pathfinder one which has gone off in its own wild direction. :)
(And your reading is deeply appreciated)
FallenDabus |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
FallenDabus wrote:Damn, I love the placeholder art, but that cover is dope.
(And that goes double for those of us to have been reading Todd's storyhour over a decade now)
Not the same critter, just the homebrew monster served as partial inspiration for the Pathfinder one which has gone off in its own wild direction. :)
(And your reading is deeply appreciated)
Yeah, but even partial inspiration is pretty damn cool. I remembering literally screaming when I realied why the Astradaemon seemed so damned familiar.
Todd Stewart Contributor |
Frozen Mustelid |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm excited that this book is coming out, but I am a bit concerned about the contents. I like the idea, but with 2E around the corner I'm concerned that this might be a quick cash-in to get more funds for 2E's development.
I know I can't expect unbiased information on quality of the material from Paizo, but can we at least get an estimate of the approximate power level? Is this going to be more APG/UC level, ACG level, or Unchained/UI level?
Barachiel Shina |
We now have 7 Inevitables, 8 Aeons, 14 Psychopomps and 10 Proteans. The "neutral" denizens of the outer planes are still far from the celestials and fiends in number and diversity, but fortunately Mr. Jacobs has said there are new Inevitables in this book - the ones with fewer members until then.
New Inevitables finally. I hope new Aeons as well.
Chris Lambertz Web Production Manager |
James Jacobs Creative Director |
11 people marked this as a favorite. |
Chris,
I think one of those bullets might need fixing:
A presentation of the 20 core deities of the Pathfinder RPG, including divine gifts they can grant their faithful.
I admit I COULD be wrong there...
The bullet is correct. There's quite a bit of lore about the deities in this book, from details on their planar realms to notes on their relationships to, as indicated on the bullet point, divine gifts they can grant worshipers in the form of divine intervention or other rewards for holy/unholy/whateverholy quests and the like.
Todd Stewart Contributor |