Whoops, sorry folks. In writing up this product page, I accidentally labeled it a Tier 1–5 adventure. This is, in fact, a Tier 3–7 scenario. I'll put in a request to get the product page updated with the correct information.
It not only advances the Grand Lodge faction, but I bet there are a few Players out there with an axe to grind with Grandmaster Torch!
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Three things:
1) DRUMA LODGE! DRUMA LODGE!
2) Half-orcs for the win! The Blues Brothers need to do this mission.
3) Will this mission help us reconcile the Torch of 9-00 with the Torch of 9-04 and 9-07? I am still reeling from the difference between the two.
The Torch of the Scarab Sages Arc is complex, but he's a reasonable ally -- albeit one you might want to be cautious with trusting fully. You sympathize with his past, and understand why he went dark. Also, he's obviously matured and grown since becoming a sage.
The Torch of Assault on Absalom is a "Wha-a-a-at?" for me. The only thing I could think of to explain him allying with demons and assaulting innocent Absalom civilians is that he temporarily lost his mind due to the Black Moon's whispering in his head. But there's no indication of that in the later Scarab Sage episodes.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A Tale of Two Torches
The Grandmaster reveals that it was all a ruse.
Which parts?
All of them. Now that he has his sage jewel he plans to enact the ultimate plan - turning the Grand Lodge into a Dickensian Playhouse while the big wigs are off chasing the enemies of the society.
My half-orc Grand Lodge character has exactly one scenario left at Level 7! Perfect!
I know Paizo folks are rolling into convention season, especially with PaizoCon coming up, but any chance we can get the maps list for this one?
Organized Play Developer
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I just wanted to pop in and drop some clarifications for GMs prepping this scenario. Since this advice contains some minor spoilers, I've tagged it below.
1) In the hedge maze encounter on page 15 the final sentence before the stat blocks for the living topiaries says "If the PCs do not succeed on at least 2 of these checks, they spend 1d4 additional hours lost in the maze, and Amynta Irel arrives with her entourage a er the PCs face the encounter in area B." This should actually refer to the encounter in area A14. There was a last minute change making the wine cellar part of the main estate instead of its own area, which caused the hedge maze to change from area C to area B. The party should not encounter Amynta until they have met Emilia in the cellar.
2) The portion of the hedge maze shown on the included map is simply the estate-side entry for the maze. The maze itself is much large than would conveniently fit on a standard battle mat, so GMs are encouraged to draw or describe portions of the maze as necessary and appropriate for any combat encounters that may occur.
Thanks everyone!
I just wanted to pop in and drop some clarifications for GMs prepping this scenario.
Thanks.
Clarifications always appreciated, especially before the scenarios drop!Looking forward to running this one.
Dot.
|
Three things:
1) DRUMA LODGE! DRUMA LODGE!
2) Half-orcs for the win! The Blues Brothers need to do this mission.
3) Will this mission help us reconcile the Torch of 9-00 with the Torch of 9-04 and 9-07? I am still reeling from the difference between the two.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **[/spoiler]
Could it be that simple? Could one of Torch's escape plans have been a simulacrum-type thing that backfired and is now going around as Evil-Torch and doing terrible things while Good-Torch is concentrating on Sage things?
Hey, I'm copying my review into here so that it can be discussed.
Do you agree? Do you think I'm out to lunch?
Amynta is an enemy of our enemy and the team has no direct reason to consider her an enemy, she is just caught in the crossfire of the Society conflict with the Grandmaster. From what we discovered of her, she would also make a great ally if recruited to the Society.
The only reason my character had to plunder her home was theft as a crime of opportunity. Commiting crimes of opportunity are not in character for most of my Pathfinder agents. The information we gathered on Amynta suggested that she would compulsively investigate to retaliate against slights, giving my character further incentive to not further provoke here by stealing anything more than her prisoner.
I had no more reason to steal her stuff than I had to steal from the bartender at the start of the scenario.
During this scenario the gold rewards rewarded indiscriminate theft. Indiscriminate theft tends to be the first habit I need to break when a new roleplayer joins the local PSF community. We have been trained and I train my players that rewards come from being good pathfinders: focus on the mission, Explore-Report-Cooperate, bypassing an encounter through other means than combat is ok; this scenario undermined some of that training.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As to the rewards, none of the entries say the PCs must take the items to earn the gold. Each one says if the PCs do not search the room or find the items, they get gold reduced. As long as they find everything, they earn the rewards even if they take nothing.
|
Organized Play Lead Developer
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
As TriOmegaZero notes above, the Rewards entries are very firm in the PCs only having to discover or identify valuables, not take any of them. Doing the former still results in the full gold reward. Further, several encounters involve a significant reward just for bypassing certain NPCs. Stealing shouldn't be necessary, and we payed special attention to ensuring that in development.
I've heard reports from a recent convention that GMs were regularly giving PCs 0 gp for having stolen nothing. Don't do this to your players.
|
Organized Play Developer
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
In addition to TOZ's blunt but not inaccurate statement
For a quick run-through:
Area A1 only requires that you defeat or bypass the guards.
Area A2 only requires that you resolve the situation with the majordomo or defeat the guards.
Area A4 only requires that you search the library, not loot it.
Area A5 only requires that you search the majordomo's room, not loot it.
Area A6 only requires that you search Amynta's room, not loot it.
Area A12 only requires that you search the kitchen, not loot it.
A14 only requires that you locate the items (though admittedly, this one is easier to mistake as requiring you to take the items.)
Area B does not provide any gold.
The rewards sections for all of the encounters in this adventure were written in such a way that you should not have lost gold for choosing not to loot, as we were very aware that this adventure might already feel dicey for characters playing paladins and other extremely lawful characters.
I withdraw any general complaints and apply them only to rooms A5 and A6 specifically: These rooms are not related to the mission objective, or an objective that we could imagine the Society having (such as the journal detailing Emilio's family crypt). A group that really strives for the flawless heist is going to miss out on these rewards (930g in high tier), at no fault of their own. The group does not need to steal from these rooms (searching is enough), but once they discover the valuable Journal hidden in the library they have no reason to search those rooms unless it is to steal (we got the impression that the library was where any information valuable to the Society would be hidden and defended).
Why is this a problem? Why does this bother me? It is ok to lose out on gold. It is ok to gain partial or no prestige, and to fail to aquire boons. In this case it feels like players that try to complete a focused heist and succeed at it, are going to get a penalized. Strangely if this was a crypt or a plane shifted museum we would have gone out of our way Explore those last two areas .
What about this heist made players stop Exploring and focus so narrowly on the mission? Is that a good or bad thing?
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I concur with Livgin.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
While playing this it definitely seemed like taking all the silverware was needed to get full credit. If that's not technically so by the terms of the encounter reward conditions - well, for a player it does look like it. You can only go on for so long about expensive silverware before we think we're playing Many Fortunes 9.0
The premise of this adventure seemed to be to be smash and grab: get the guy out of there as fast as possible because you don't know when momma is coming home. A group that's hyper-focused on the main objective, is being thoroughly professional. It's a bit sad if that means you lose out on neat stuff.