Legendary Shifters (PFRPG) PDF

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Legendary Shifters is the latest volume in our series of class-focused player supplements, this time focusing on the the mercurial shifters! This base class, introduced in Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Ultimate Wilderness, was designed to be the ultimate shapeshifting character, allowing players to take a variety of forms in the blink of an eye. Legendary Shifters works to further embody this concept with a redesign of the class that gives even greater freedom to transform into whatever you wish at a moment’s notice. With an updated version of wild shape dubbed shifter shape, legendary shifters can not only take different forms more easily, but also change between their forms without hesitation! In addition, this book contains a ton of new archetypes to help your shifter take the form you want them to, from the furious Dragon Touched to the tricky and capricious Fey Shifter. The insidious Mimickin allows for transformation into regular objects, while Necromorphs are focused on both transforming into and raising the dead. And if even more variety is required, the Polymorph Savant prestige class allows for almost infinitely varied shapeshifting, with access to a plethora of different forms. Plus, tons of new feats, spells, and more! Grab this 32-page Pathfinder Roleplaying Game class supplement from N. Jolly and Siobhan Bjorknas today and Make Your Game Legendary!

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An Endzeitgeist.com review

*****

This player-facing class book/class redesign clocks in at 32 pages, 1 page front cover, 2 pages of editorial, 1 page ToC, 1 page introduction, 2 pages of SRD, 1 page back cover, leaving us with 24 pages of content, though it should be noted that, as always, legendary Games has stuffed a TON of content within these pages, so let’s take a look!

Wait. Before we do, I need to fully disclose one fact. To say that I don’t like the shifter class would be a frickin’ understatement. After all the shapeshifting classes I’ve reviewed, the class was the blandest, more bring implementation of the concept I could possibly fathom. It’s one of my least favorite PFRPG classes released by Paizo, and coming from the amazing Occult classes and the similarly awesome vigilante, it was a huge disappointment for me. It’s a dedicated shifter class that’s less flexible than one that gets shifting as a bonus. And don’t get me started on the lack of actually unique things it can do. I wasn’t alone in that, so let’s see if the class redesign by Legendary Games actually manages to make the shifter interesting.

The legendary shifter base class gets d10 HD, 4 + Int skills per level, proficiency with simple and martial weapons as well as natural attacks gained from class features, and light and medium armors and shields, excluding tower shields. The class may take Sylvan as a bonus language, as well as Aklo, and they speak Druidic as a free language. Nice touch there! Chassis-wise, the legendary shifter gets full BAB-progression as well as good Fort- and Ref-saves.

Now, the basic shifting engine has been changed rather drastically: At 1st level, you choose a shifter’s aspect, and entering it is a swift action; ending the effect is a free action. Forms may be switched as a swift action and the aspect may be maintained indefinitely. Until 9th level, when chimeric aspect is gained, only one form at a time may be maintained. 14th level nets greater chimeric aspect – three aspects and related forms. The shift is NOT a polymorph effect. A new aspect is gained at 5th level and every 4 levels thereafter. Unless I have miscounted, 19 different aspects are provided and provide minor benefits that often actually manage to be interesting. I have no balance-concerns with them, as the form’s usefulness and the benefits gained correlate in smart ways: While a mouse aspect may generally suck a bit, gaining evasion does make it quite tantalizing now, doesn’t it? Also at first level, we’d have shifter’s shape, which allows for the assumptions of badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog. Dolphin, horse, manta ray, pony, viper, constrictor snake or wolf forms, analogue to beast shape I. However, it lasts for class level + Wisdom modifier hours, min 1, and the duration may be split, but only in 1-hour increments. Changing form in this shape may be used ½ class level + Wisdom modifier times sans penalty; beyond that, it reduces the total allotment of duration remaining by 1 hour. This is treated as wild shape, but the shifter lsoes the ability to communicate while in the. 3rd level unlocks all beast shape I forms, 6th level allows for the assuming of Large and Tiny and beast shape II forms. 8th level allows for the assumption of Huge or Diminutive animal form, or that of a Small or Medium (not capitalized properly) magical beast; the ability is upgraded to beast shape III. 12th level upgrades that further to beast shape IV, and unlocks Tiny and Large magical beasts; 16th level unlocks Diminutive and Huge magical beasts and makes the ability behave as magical beast shape. 6th level hastens shifter shape to a move action that does not provoke AoOs. 10th level upgrades this to optionally use as a swift action, and 18th level allows for the use of shifting as an immediate action.

The class also begins play with wild empathy and shifter evolution: This lets the shifter, as a swit action. Grow claws and a set of fangs – these are (HUGE kudos!) properly codified both regarding damage type and precise nature of the natural attacks. These start with the ability to bypass DR/magic and begin bypassing DR/cold iron and DR /Silver at 3rd level, with 7th level making them behave as ghost touch. 15th level lets the shifter ignore DR/adamantine and 19th level even DR/- - ouch! These benefits also extend to natural attacks conferred by polymorph effects and the synergy of natural attacks and those she can grow is properly codified. Damage dice of the shifter evolution natural attacks increases from 1d6 to 2d10 over the course of the 20 levels of the class. As you can glean, this makes shifters at low levels pretty dangerous, considering that we’re looking at 3 primary natural attacks. For very conservative games, this may prove slightly problematic, though in such a case, I’d simply advise in making the damage default to the standard for the natural attacks and rendering claws or bite, depending on low power level sought, secondary instead. Most games will not encounter a problem here.

At 2nd level, the shifter gets track and adds Wisdom modifier to AC and CMD, or half as much when also wearing armor or using a shield; 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter increase this by +1. 3rd level nets woodland stride; 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter yield a wild shape based bonus feat; 5th level nets trackless step. The capstone nets shifter shape at will and nets shapechanger apotheosis, becoming immunity to transmutation effects unless willing to accept them.

The pdf also provides a wide array of different archetypes, 12, to be precise. Bound beastmasters get an animal companion and instead apply shifter evolution benefits to the companion’s attacks instead. The Wis-bonus to defense is lost in favor of the companion sharing in aspects, and instead of chimeric aspect and its greater version, we have the option to have the companion also assume shifts, but the form taken must be that of the legendary shifter. The dragon touched is an archetype I would not allow in more conservative games, as the claws gained from shifter evolution are replaced with a 15 ft.-cone or 30 ft.-line breath weapons that deals 1d8 + class level damage of the chosen energy type corresponding to the dragon blood; the damage increases by +1d8 at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, and there is no limit imposed on it. It won’t break the game for most groups, but unlimited AoO energy damage can be pretty potent. Personally, I’d have imposed a hard cap for the low levels here and then delimited that at higher levels. Instead of shifter aspect, the archetype begins with low-light vision and gains progressively better draconic traits. Unsurprisingly, the shifter shape is completely changed to instead provide the ability to assume draconic forms. Similarly, the chimeric aspect and capstone are modified.

The elemental nexus chooses a chosen element’s basic utility wild talent as well as a kinetic blast wild talent, with full damage progression as though shifter levels equaled kineticist levels. Additionally, we get the kinetic fist form infusion at 0 burn cost and Improved Unarmed Strike. The blast may only be used in conjunction with kinetic fist and replaces shifter evolution. 1st level and every 4 levels thereafter net a utility wild talent, and Wisdom modifier times per day, the archetype may lower the burn cost of a wild talent by 1. This replaces shifter aspect. As a nitpick here: The reduction should imho only work for utility wild talents granted by this archetype; otherwise the option is a bit too dippable for my tastes. Instead of the Wisdom boost, we get elemental defense at 2nd level, being treated as having accepted 1 burn. 5th level and every 3 levels thereafter, the archetype is treated as having accepted 1 more burn. Bonus feats allow for kineticist tricks and 5th level unlocks elemental forms via the modified version of shifter shape. 9th and 14th level provide expanded element instead of the chimeric aspect abilities.

The fairy shifter has HD reduced to d8 and only ¾ BAB-progression, but gains the hunter’s spellcasting progression, but draws spells from druid and ranger lists, using Charisma as governing spellcasting attribute. Kudos: Spell overlap between spell lists is noted. Unsurprisingly, this one then proceeds to codify shifter shape in the fey form direction. Instead of the Wis-boost, these folks use Charisma to bolster their defenses and extend that to flat-footed. The capstone is similarly modified. The Giant shifter replaces claws with slams, and bingo, does what it says on the tin. Lycanthropic warriors are limited regarding their aspects, but get scaling DRs instead of the Wisdom boost and they begin play with hybrid form availability – nice tweak and easily multiclassed one. Metamorphic genius has d8 HD and 3/4 BAB-progression. The archetype also gets the infusion discovery and alchemy instead of shifter aspect and the chimeric abilities; extract levels of shapeshifting tricks are reduced by 1 and it also comes with some flexibility. These also get a longer duration and Int is a governing attribute here. In the absence of shifting, quicker extract imbibing (only of those noted by the archetype) maintains the action economy of the base class.

As a huge fan of the Dark Souls games and the classic monster, I smiled broadly when reading the Mimickin - you get Disguise as a class skill and the archetype nets scaling mimic shapes…and yes, this means grab and swallow whole at higher levels. Oh, and multiple mimickin can form larger objects! Oh, and they get to move stealthily. As a fan of the Prey game and Dark Souls, this one really rocked my world. And before you’re asking: The 3 new object form spells within are what makes this work.

These is a mini-engine tweak/micro-archetype that exchanges trackless step and bonus feats for a ranger’s spellcasting. Necromorphs are a cool thematic undead/undead-controlling type of shifter that can maintain multiple gentle repose effects and Hide in Plain Sight in dim light at 5th level. One of the cooler theme-archetypes; no Dead Space-y stuff, though. Speaking of which: Oozeling. It’s the single best ooze-style class option I’ve seen in a long while. Compression from level 1 and some potent defenses, as well as a more complex natural weapon table made me smile. Protean masters would be the inevitable unchained eidolon archetype. Surprisingly, all eidolon subtypes are unlocked – I kinda expected these to unlock over the levels, but limited evolution points keep this in check. Higher levels provide more flexibility here.

The pdf also includes a new 10-level PrC, the Polymorph Savant, who needs the Basic Alteration feat (one of the feats within – unlocks speaking and behaves like alter self) as well as shifter shape and a BAB of +5. The PrC has ¾ BAB-progression and ½ Fort- and Ref-save progression, 4 + Int skills per level and d8 HD. The PrC adds class levels to legendary shifter regarding the effects of class features and gets the ability to assume Tiny, Small, Medium or Large insect shapes, as per vermin shape II. 2nd level adds ghost touch to shifter evolutions, with 6th level making the attacks count as aligned, 10th providing the adamantine bypassing. At 2nd level, being under shifter shape nets uncanny dodge and evasion. 3rd level unlocks Diminutive, Tiny, Small, Medium, large or Huge monstrous humanoids; 4th level and 8th net a bonus feat, 5th nets fey shapes – get it? Yep, the progression is pretty close to the base class, and instead of specializing provides basically the jack-of-all-trades shifter.

Now, the feats within allow shifter to retain combat power while Tiny or smaller sans being crippled; Animal Spirit makes you use Charisma as governing attribute; Bestial Roots allows archetypes that trade this in to gain animal shapes (but not the magical beast shapes of the base class); Morphic Berserker is a legendary shifter/barbarian crossover feat, and Morphic Lyricist and Morphic Stalker represent the multiclass facilitators for bards and slayer, respectively. The pdf concludes after aforementioned spells with Ines, a beautifully illustrated and well-written, fun NPC – Ines is overflowing with love, raised by fey and comes with a cool boon. Two thumbs up for the cool NPC!

Conclusion:

Editing and formatting are very good on both a formal and rules language level. Layout adheres to Legendary Games’ two-column full-color standard and the pdf comes with a blend of previously used and new full-color artworks. The pdf comes fully bookmarked for your convenience.

Siobhan Bjorknas and N. Jolly deliver a huge improvement over the standard shifter here. Honestly, just forget about the base class and use this one instead. The legendary shifter is, at least in my book, preferable in pretty much every way – this class does the dedicated shapeshifter, the one based on the magic-chassis, as well as you can probably do the concept. Heck, while a lot of this pdf delivered pretty much exactly what I expected to find, it actually managed to surprise me in a positive way, in a book that I honestly expected to bore me to tears. The oozeling and mimickin, in particular, made me smile a really devilish grin. So yeah, this is a very good book. There are a few components where I’d have preferred a tad bit more nuance, but that’s me complaining at a very high level. As such, my final verdict will clock in at 4.5 stars, rounded up, since given the design goal, this is probably as close to excellent as the shifter without divorcing it from core-engines, is ever likely to get.

Endzeitgeist out.


Not perfect, but close enough

*****

I'll keep this short, as others have gone in depth into the pros and cons of the Legendary Shifter class and its archetypes. The Legendary Shifter is what the base Shifter class should have been upon release.

While not perfect, the Legendary Shifter more than adequately represents the idea of the druidic paladin with the emphasis on wild shaping. While I'm not sure how wild shaping into a magical beast compares to plants and elementals, there is a simplistic synergy in the Legendary Shifter emulating a magical beast when the Druid can't.

To be extremely nit-picky, there are some typos. But none are so prevalent to detract from the quality of the class and archetypes. The only real negative I have is that the Polymorph Savant prestige class is only for a Legendary Shifter.

I highly recommend this PDF for everyone.


Improvement over the vanilla shifter, lesser than a druid

***( )( )

Typed a long post but got error due to 30 minutes limitation. This is a rewritten post.

The legendary shifter is limited to basic beast and magical beast form, unavailable to elemental nor plant. So while you can get an ability that allows you to do chimeric animal aspects, you cannot combine beast shape with either elemental nor plant. Meanwhile, feral shifter the druid archetype isn't limited by such.

Elemental nexus feels like a kinetic stuck with elemental fist with less tricks but elemental body.

The intro about the book is a bit misleading. You cannot really play a chimeric elemental because expanded elemental replaced chimeric aspect, and from the wording it seems there are only the base 4 elemental available. You're also forbidden from taking a feat to learn basic animal shapes.

You only beat the druid in elemental form I progression by one level, later the elemental nexus has the same elemental shape progression as the druid while missing many shapes.

For example, elemental nexus learns 3 type of the basic 4 elemental, while vanilla druid has it all (animal, 4 elemental, vermin, verdant, shapechange) and only get better with archetypes.

Oddly, it has one line claiming you cannot gain magical beast form. <An elemental nexus cannot take the shape of a magical beast.> But there are no way gaining magical beast form from the book anyway unless by heavily multiclassing.

Dragon archetype is stuck with one scale color till mid level. It's also a bit weak, highest buff he can get before level 8 is +2 to STR & CON and cannot fly in said shape till level 11.

Here, the ability draconic shape also says altered shifter shape, however it does not specify about "cannot take the shape of a magical beast" unlike the elemental nexus.

In later sector of the booklet, bestial root specifies it (draconic shape) could be one of the prerequisite to learn shifter shape (without magical beast form), therefore I believe it's editing errors.

The giant archetype loses the ability to change into any animals other than a giant, unlike a goliath druid who has a limited selections of animals other than giant to choose from.

However from the way it's sentenced I would say you can turn into a gargantuan / colossal animal if you take bestial roots, making it bit more viable.

Overall I would say the book is an improvement over the vanilla ultimate wilderness shifter, but often feels lesser lacking in shape choices than a druid.

There are also oddities such as the prestige class almost nullifies the point of the dragon archetype at the same level.

I think it would be great if the archetypes were combat styles that player get to choose from like ranger rather than replacing most features.


Finally, the Shifter we deserve.

*****

I won't go into detail on the specifics of the class as other reviewers have done a great job of summarizing everything in this PDF. Instead I just want to thank the author for providing a fun, well-balanced class that captures everything I loved about the D&D 3.0 Shifter and Master of Many Forms, updating the concepts for Pathfinder, fixing all the wonkey stuff, and delivering a martial master of shape shifting! If you were like me and was disappointed in the Ultimate Wilderness Shifter, then this class is for you. As if the base class wasn't great enough, the PDF also includes some great archetypes and a very cool prestige class. Want to play an elemental shifter? A fey shifter? You like Attack on Titan and want to play a Pathfinder version of Eren Yeager? You can do it. Want to play living objects, an ooze, or a dragon shifter? You can do it. Buy this PDF. You will not be disappointed!


*****

So if you had any issues with the old shifter, this fixes them. The change to wildshape, the unique archetypes, the new class features, they're all amazing. It's kind of awesome to see how the base of this class was taken and made into something that actually does what you'd want from the class. Five stars, easy.


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I got this one this morning, and all I can say for now is that if you were even slightly dissatisfied with the 'official' Shifter class, you want this. You may want it even if you love the official Shifter. It is AMAZING.

Much fuller review to come later!

Silver Crusade

8 people marked this as a favorite.

And as always, it's time for my dev post on rebuilding this class.

Legendary Shifter
So how does one go about doing a rebuild? The first thing I did was give shifting at 1st level, because to me, holding a key class feature until 4th level makes anyone playing at level 1-3 not feel like they're playing the class, and that's something I really didn't like. To balance this, the forms being able to be taken earlier are limited to make sure this shifting didn't cause too many problems. In addition, the legendary shifter is not locked to their aspects, using traditional wildshape mechanics to avoid creating new mechanics where necessary. Now you have as much control over your form as a druid, as well as being able to change into magical beasts to further separate yourself from druids and hunters. Doing this helped give the class a definitive mechanical niche where others weren't already. And lastly to this first part, at 20th level, at will wild shape.

Second of all, shifting is divided into uses that can be broken up into hour long sessions. I have to thank my playtesters for this, as they were quite insistent about how this should work, and listening to them really helped make sure this class functioned properly. This is also why the shifter's claws feature has a better scaling damage boost, and why the ability to pierce magic damage reduction was made at first level, to better allow players to avoid the issues of natural attacking.

Third, bonus feats. The class needed them, they got them, and I feel it opened up the combat potential of the class as well as freeing up general feats for more utility options, which to me felt very needed. Also the alignment restrictions were dropped, which removed a bit more of the 'druid' from the class, but at the same time, I didn't feel as though they helped the class at all, instead holding it back. I'm not big on alignment based classes anyways.

Fourth, there are now class features that speed up shifting so that players can shift more quickly and jump into the fray without needing as much start up time. This helps the class feel more like you're evolving into a more adept shifter rather than the previous stagnancy in shifting speed.

Fifth, aspects are now constantly active. The limit to the aspects were removed because I didn't feel like the majority of the bonuses needed limiting. Because of this, their power didn't change, but I think being able to switch out sooner was greatly helpful. Aspects are also gained faster to help with this customization.

These were the pillars I used for this redesign, and the end product is something that I feel better encapsulates what people wanted from the class both mechanically and thematically.

Bound Beastmaster
The fact that the class didn't have an animal companion archetype seemed odd to me, so I decided to fix that. The unique aspect of this archetype beyond the animal companion is that the animal companion both receives any aspect boosts and can shift along with the legendary shifter, creating a very nice paired dynamic. If turning into a bear is nice, turning into a bear while your wolf companion does too is amazing!

Dragon Touched
Another archetype that I thought needed touched, there was quite a lot of safeguarding to keep turning into a dragon so soon from being broken as all hell, but starting small and not gaining flight until later levels certainly helps. It's less versatile in the shapes it can take, but being able to take dragon shape is a huge boost, making it a fair trade.

Elemental Nexus
Kineticist archetype, I knew you'd come! Not only can you turn into an elemental, but you also gain some kineticist powers, such as elemental defense and kinetic blast (limited to kinetic fist, sorry), but you are able to expand your element, making you able to play a chimeric elemental of your choosing.

Fairy Shifter
Now to make this archetype different, not only can you turn into fey with fey shape, this archetype is charisma based (makes sense for fey) and gains charisma based hunter casting. As a charisma based archetype, it's a bit different, but I think the variety of fey you can shift into is a nice change of pace from doing animals.

Giant Shifter
Who wants to be an animal when you can GET RIPPED?! I know a lot of people who just wanted to get big, and this is the archetype to do it. Being able to boost your size at will is very useful as well as being able to stay humanoid, making this a safer archetype for people who just want some cool stat buffs.

Lycanthropic Warrior
And of course we needed a werewolf archetype. This one was really hard to get perfect, and I'm very happy with the end result. Sure, you're more aspect limited, but the versatility of being able to take hybrid form easily overrides this, making it a suitable choice for those who like giant shifter, but still like animals.

Metamorphic Genius
What class shifts better than an alchemist? Using the most polymorph friendly class, you get extracts and an intelligence based class, allowing you to take a huge variety of forms and even speed up the use of certain extracts as you level, making you able to take new forms and use useful extracts in combat.

Mimickin
Now here's the really unique one of the book. How many of you have ever wanted to play a mimic? Because that's exactly what you can do here. Transforming into objects, swallowing people, being sticky, these were all design goals I had for this archetype which I believe I met, and I've had a lot of people from the playtest tell me that this was their favorite archetype.

Mystically Trained
Ranger casting, basically it. For those who want magic, it's a small archetype which does just that.

Necromorph
Not only can you become the undead, you can also raise them too with this archetype. The ability to take the form of undead while having them as companions makes this a very cool corpse themed archetype, and anyone wanting to do necromancy should have all the tools they need with this archetype.

Oozling
This was my take on the oozemorph, and you'll see that there's fewer issues than the original due to ooze shape and such. I'm hoping that all the kinks were worked out, and you can even take the shape of different oozes as you advance in level in case your normal ooze form can't cut it.

Protean Mutant
I love the word 'protean'. Also instead of taking different forms with this archetype, you MAKE them, as you have a number of eidolon evolution points you can use to make your own form, including taking a different base form and qualifying for evolutions as though you were any type of eidolon. Definitely for those who love to tinker, this archetype is one of my faves.

New Prestige Class: Polymorph Savant
For everyone who wanted master of many forms back, this is it. This archetype gradually increases the number of forms you can take, including vermin, monstrous humanoids, fey, ooze, plant, and dragon. It's also able to be taken by a straight legendary shifter, making it almost an alternative class for the book. With lower BAB, it's a less offensive route, but it does contain just about any form you could ever want to take.

Final Thoughts
This rebuild took a lot of time to help find the sweet spot I wanted to hit, and it was entirely worth it. The community helped shape this into a better project as well, and I thank all of my playtesters. For those who wanted a more robust shifter, I believe the legendary shifter accomplishes all that and more, so please check it out if you can.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

4 people marked this as a favorite.

So glad to see this one up and out. We debated whether to push forward with doing the shifter so soon after its release, but I'm glad we decided to take the plunge, as we're delighted with the final result!


N. Jolly wrote:

And as always, it's time for my dev post on rebuilding this class.

Legendary Shifter
So how does one go about doing a rebuild? The first thing I did was give shifting at 1st level, because to me, holding a key class feature until 4th level makes anyone playing at level 1-3 not feel like they're playing the class, and that's something I really didn't like. To balance this, the forms being able to be taken earlier are limited to make sure this shifting didn't cause too many problems. In addition, the legendary shifter is not locked to their aspects, using traditional wildshape mechanics to avoid creating new mechanics where necessary. Now you have as much control over your form as a druid, as well as being able to change into magical beasts to further separate yourself from druids and hunters. Doing this helped give the class a definitive mechanical niche where others weren't already. And lastly to this first part, at 20th level, at will wild shape.

Second of all, shifting is divided into uses that can be broken up into hour long sessions. I have to thank my playtesters for this, as they were quite insistent about how this should work, and listening to them really helped make sure this class functioned properly. This is also why the shifter's claws feature has a better scaling damage boost, and why the ability to pierce magic damage reduction was made at first level, to better allow players to avoid the issues of natural attacking.

Third, bonus feats. The class needed them, they got them, and I feel it opened up the combat potential of the class as well as freeing up general feats for more utility options, which to me felt very needed. Also the alignment restrictions were dropped, which removed a bit more of the 'druid' from the class, but at the same time, I didn't feel as though they helped the class at all, instead holding it back. I'm not big on alignment based classes anyways.

Fourth, there are now class features that speed up shifting so that players can shift more quickly and...

You did an amazing job on the Legendary Shifter. ***** easy, and I'll give it a real review in a day or so when I get a chance to write everything down properly.

I have to say that I think 'Mystically Trained' is the shortest archetype I've ever seen in a Pathfinder book, and one of the best in its simplicity.

I love the two feats 'Animal Spirit' and 'Basic Alteration'. Especially the latter. So simple and yet it opens up so many possibilities.

One question about the Lycanthropic Warrior archetype: when they can do a large-size version of their animal form, can they also make their hybrid form large in size as well?


I just posted my review, and I so hope it gets new buys for this. This class is amazing, with some of the best options I've seen in a while.

I would also like to know if there are any plans for a Legendary Shifters II, hopefully with a few more archetypes. Say, 'legendary' versions of the Fiendflesh and Verdant shifter? Maybe a 'Hagskin' or the like for someone specializing in monstrous humanoids?

Thank to everyone involved who made this masterpiece.

Silver Crusade

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Very much appreciate the review, and as for Legendary Shifters II, it'll depend on how well this one sells. I did try to include as many legendary versions of archetypes as I could, but for this project, I wanted to use new ideas to make sure that people who were already familiar with the shifter would have some new things with which to play. For me, I just wanted to have some cool stuff, like mimickin.

Shadow Lodge

I can't wait to get this and see what the Dragon Shifter ended up as. I really hope it got a useful breath weapon(damage wise) that can be used every 1d4 rounds but otherwise at will. :)


Dragonborn3 wrote:
I can't wait to get this and see what the Dragon Shifter ended up as. I really hope it got a useful breath weapon(damage wise) that can be used every 1d4 rounds but otherwise at will. :)

Going by my copy of the PDF it's at will, starts at 1d8 dmg + 1d8 every five levels, with the energy type depending on whatever draconic 'aspect' you chose at first level. Though you can widen it a bit when you get new 'aspects' at 9th and 14th levels.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well I got my copy.

Shadow Lodge

Eric Hinkle wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:
I can't wait to get this and see what the Dragon Shifter ended up as. I really hope it got a useful breath weapon(damage wise) that can be used every 1d4 rounds but otherwise at will. :)
Going by my copy of the PDF it's at will, starts at 1d8 dmg + 1d8 every five levels, with the energy type depending on whatever draconic 'aspect' you chose at first level. Though you can widen it a bit when you get new 'aspects' at 9th and 14th levels.

That's a little disappointing. At 5d8 points of damage at level 20(which a lot of tables don't see play at) it's not even close to a level 9 Kinetic Blast(5d6 but gets bonuses) :(

Even Form of the Dragon starts at 6d8(once per spell) and reaches 12d8(unlimited uses) at Form of the Dragon III.

From what I remember of the playtest though Dragon Touched gets FotD, so maybe that increases their Breath Weapon while shifted? Hopefully?


Pathfinder Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The breath weapon damage adds Shifter level, so it is actually 5d8+20 at 20th level -- and you can use it every round, with no cooldown.

Shadow Lodge

Hmm... not as bad as I feared. The flat bonus to damage will help a lot against energy resistance(and DR if my memory of non-true dragon options is correct).

Disappointment alleviated.


David knott 242 wrote:

The breath weapon damage adds Shifter level, so it is actually 5d8+20 at 20th level -- and you can use it every round, with no cooldown.

Agh! Sorry I forgot that when I wrote my answer.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dragonborn3 wrote:

Hmm... not as bad as I feared. The flat bonus to damage will help a lot against energy resistance(and DR if my memory of non-true dragon options is correct).

Disappointment alleviated.

This breath weapon was actually the source of contention during the playtest. I realized the 1d4 thing, while a staple, didn't really help the archetype, so I removed it. The damage should scale well enough that it remains useful, and it can be used as a primary attack if one wishes, which I figured would be something most people with a breath weapon would want.


Bought it and downloaded it, will put up a review at some point.


A question for the Legendary Games head honcho... What are the chances of Legendary Games creating Hero lab files for sale for the Legendary Shifter and/or other Legendary classes? The Legendary Shifter is awesome and I know my players would love to play this class and other Legendary classes but we've become addicted to Hero Lab.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Player Killer wrote:
A question for the Legendary Games head honcho... What are the chances of Legendary Games creating Hero lab files for sale for the Legendary Shifter and/or other Legendary classes? The Legendary Shifter is awesome and I know my players would love to play this class and other Legendary classes but we've become addicted to Hero Lab.

I would love to offer these in HeroLab, but getting things converted and integrated to their system has become a substantial issue. There are a lot of reasons: Finding reliable converters is tricky, and even when we've gotten things done there are products we've had converted that have gotten backlogged in the onboarding queue there for quite a while. LoneWolf has focused a lot of attention recently on building out the Starfinder and 5E versions of HeroLab and they've slowed down the Pathfinder queue even more.

We've tried doing HL files ourselves and selling them on places like our own site, Drivethru, and Paizo, but history has shown that people just don't buy them in any significant numbers outside of the LoneWolf store. LoneWolf has been adding more staff, and now that their Starfinder and 5E platforms look like they are up and running, maybe the logjam will break up and things will get moving again. Meanwhile, if you know anybody interested in doing HeroLab coding, send them our way!


Jason Nelson wrote:

I would love to offer these in HeroLab, but getting things converted and integrated to their system has become a substantial issue. There are a lot of reasons: Finding reliable converters is tricky, and even when we've gotten things done there are products we've had converted that have gotten backlogged in the onboarding queue there for quite a while. LoneWolf has focused a lot of attention recently on building out the Starfinder and 5E versions of HeroLab and they've slowed down the Pathfinder queue even more.

We've tried doing HL files ourselves and selling them on places like our own site, Drivethru, and Paizo, but history has shown that people just don't buy them in any significant numbers outside of the LoneWolf store. LoneWolf has been adding more staff, and now that their Starfinder and 5E platforms look like they are up and running, maybe the logjam will break up and things will get moving again. Meanwhile, if you know anybody interested in doing HeroLab coding, send them our way!

Thank you for the quick response Mr. Nelson! Hopefully LoneWolf will staff up and start cranking out your material because it's great.

Silver Crusade

Shub-Niggurath's cousin Al wrote:
Bought it and downloaded it, will put up a review at some point.

Awesome, glad to hear it! Please let me know what you think of it, as if this does end up getting popular enough, I'd love to see what people would like to see from a second book. I have quite a few talented writers who are interested in hitting me up about a sequel at the moment.

And to anyone reviewing this, if you can, please cross post your review on open gaming store, amazon, and drivethru RPG. It helps us out and makes sure that the word is spread about this project.


N. Jolly wrote:
Shub-Niggurath's cousin Al wrote:
Bought it and downloaded it, will put up a review at some point.

Awesome, glad to hear it! Please let me know what you think of it, as if this does end up getting popular enough, I'd love to see what people would like to see from a second book. I have quite a few talented writers who are interested in hitting me up about a sequel at the moment.

And to anyone reviewing this, if you can, please cross post your review on open gaming store, amazon, and drivethru RPG. It helps us out and makes sure that the word is spread about this project.

Don't you have to buy the PDF on Drivethru to be able to post a review there?


Review is up!

EDIT: Realized I accidentally wrote "ass" instead of "all" and "S!!+er" instead of "Shifter" in places, so that's fixed now. This is why you don't write reviews when sleep-deprived, it makes you seem more foulmouthed than you intend to.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Eric Hinkle wrote:
Don't you have to buy the PDF on Drivethru to be able to post a review there?

On drivethru, yeah. It's honestly why I pick up all my stuff over there, since I can cross post the review everywhere. It might be worth asking if you can get a copy through there, since I know reviews there are really helpful.

Shub-Niggurath's cousin Al wrote:

Review is up!

EDIT: Realized I accidentally wrote "ass" instead of "all" and "S%++er" instead of "Shifter" in places, so that's fixed now. This is why you don't write reviews when sleep-deprived, it makes you seem more foulmouthed than you intend to.

Very much appreciated, and yeah, I ended up doing the latter of those two typos a lot when doing the first draft. It's just so close together. I'm seriously glad that people are enjoying this redesign as much as they are, as I did my best to see what issues people had with the class and work to make something that better encapsulated what people wanted from this concept. I went pouring over threads from people who wanted changes, seeing what they wanted, reading over other people's rebuilds, and discussing it with quite a few of them to make sure that what I put out was going to be what the concept deserved. This project involved a lot of research, as I looked up Master of Many Forms as well as Master Transmogrist (?) from 3.5 and anything else I could find that had the same concept. The original class in playtest wasn't that different from the base class, but the playtest helped push things along (totally don't use those to mine for ideas, not even a little), as it was the suggestion of others that lead to the hour duration for the class's shifting (it appears Paizo thought it was a good idea too).

In the end, Siobhan and I decided on a lot of things to make the class more unique, and the archetypes were some of the most fun design I've done in a while, especially the mimickin. It feel like there's still a lot of space to explore with this version of the shifter, and if the demand is great enough, I'll certainly be interested in making a sequel to this with a few friends who I didn't get to include initially.


Something I just noticed: the Legendary Shifter doesn't get an increasing uses of shifter shape per day, unlike the UW Shifter who gets more uses starting at level 6 and increasing every two levels from then (2 uses at 6th level, 3 at 8th, etc.). Was this intentional or did I just notice an error?

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Eric Hinkle wrote:
N. Jolly wrote:
Shub-Niggurath's cousin Al wrote:
Bought it and downloaded it, will put up a review at some point.

Awesome, glad to hear it! Please let me know what you think of it, as if this does end up getting popular enough, I'd love to see what people would like to see from a second book. I have quite a few talented writers who are interested in hitting me up about a sequel at the moment.

And to anyone reviewing this, if you can, please cross post your review on open gaming store, amazon, and drivethru RPG. It helps us out and makes sure that the word is spread about this project.

Don't you have to buy the PDF on Drivethru to be able to post a review there?

You do, but if you bought it elsewhere let me know at makeyourgamelegendary@gmail.com and I can gift you a complimentary copy through their system as well, which makes you an authorized purchaser so you can leave a review.


Jason Nelson wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:
N. Jolly wrote:
Shub-Niggurath's cousin Al wrote:
Bought it and downloaded it, will put up a review at some point.

Awesome, glad to hear it! Please let me know what you think of it, as if this does end up getting popular enough, I'd love to see what people would like to see from a second book. I have quite a few talented writers who are interested in hitting me up about a sequel at the moment.

And to anyone reviewing this, if you can, please cross post your review on open gaming store, amazon, and drivethru RPG. It helps us out and makes sure that the word is spread about this project.

Don't you have to buy the PDF on Drivethru to be able to post a review there?
You do, but if you bought it elsewhere let me know at makeyourgamelegendary@gmail.com and I can gift you a complimentary copy through their system as well, which makes you an authorized purchaser so you can leave a review.

Will do.

And please pardon my asking again, but may I get an answer to my question about whether or not the Legendary Shifter gets more than one use of 'shifter shape' per day?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Eric Hinkle wrote:
Something I just noticed: the Legendary Shifter doesn't get an increasing uses of shifter shape per day, unlike the UW Shifter who gets more uses starting at level 6 and increasing every two levels from then (2 uses at 6th level, 3 at 8th, etc.). Was this intentional or did I just notice an error?

That's actually correct; the L Shifter gets an increasing duration rather than additional uses. As written it the class feature, it's 1/2 level + Wis mod hours per day. Funny how the revised shifter also when to hours per day just as this was being released.


Thanks N. Jolly for setting me straight.

And I just re-posted my review for this PDF on both Amazon and DriveThru.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Thanks to all three of our fantastic reviewers for taking the time to leave us your detailed thoughts! Thanks also to the fans for pushing this book into the top three most popular downloads on Paizo the last several weeks. Let's see if we can knock off the Valkyries next week and rocket to NUMBER ONE!

Silver Crusade

Eric Hinkle wrote:

Thanks N. Jolly for setting me straight.

And I just re-posted my review for this PDF on both Amazon and DriveThru.

Very much appreciated, the more we can cross post reviews, the more coverage we can get this fun project.


I just posted my review (Brainiac58) here and on Amazon. I also picked up the paperback version to go along with the PDF. Great work Jason and N. Jolly!

Silver Crusade

Player Killer wrote:
I just posted my review (Brainiac58) here and on Amazon. I also picked up the paperback version to go along with the PDF. Great work Jason and N. Jolly!

Very much appreciated; I've been having quite a few people talk to me about things they'd like to see in a Legendary Shifters 2, and with this one doing rather well, I think that's a conversation I'd be willing to have. If we do a sequel book, it's going to support the base shifter as well, at least as much as I can, as I'd like to expand things. There's a good chance I'll be doing a small conversion doc for how to use the Leg Shifter archetypes with the original shifter.


N. Jolly wrote:
Player Killer wrote:
I just posted my review (Brainiac58) here and on Amazon. I also picked up the paperback version to go along with the PDF. Great work Jason and N. Jolly!
Very much appreciated; I've been having quite a few people talk to me about things they'd like to see in a Legendary Shifters 2, and with this one doing rather well, I think that's a conversation I'd be willing to have. If we do a sequel book, it's going to support the base shifter as well, at least as much as I can, as I'd like to expand things. There's a good chance I'll be doing a small conversion doc for how to use the Leg Shifter archetypes with the original shifter.

I would buy a Legendary Shifters 2 in a heartbeat! I'd love to see your take on the Rageshaper (The Hulk is one of my favorite heroes and I'd love to play a Pathfinder version) and your take on the Fiendish Shifter (and/or possibly an Angelic Shifter). Keeping my fingers crossed for a follow to the LG!


Let me say again that if we can get a Legendary Shifters 2 with coverage of the Verdant Shifter archetype, I'd be delighted. I've been trying to figure out how to do it myself but nothing really satisfies me.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

We may yet revisit the class - it's certainly proven popular, in the Top Ten Downloads here at Paizo every week since its release! Right now, though, the cavalier and barbarian are next in line to get the Legendary treatment!


I really want to like this, but it really does seem overpowered. At level 1 a Legendary Shifter has 3 natural attacks each doing 1d6 + Str mod damage, all at full attack bonus (so 3d6 + 3 Str mod total).
Compare this to a fighter with a greatsword doing 2d6 + 1.5 Str mod damage. The shifter is easily out-fighting the fighter, without even needing a weapon! And this is before even considering the cool array of shapeshifting powers the shifter gets.
I prefer the way the shapeshifting works in this version, but unless I'm overlooking something I don't see why anyone would ever play a fighter next to these guys.


Archon Tom wrote:
I prefer the way the shapeshifting works in this version, but unless I'm overlooking something I don't see why anyone would ever play a fighter next to these guys.

The question always is: Is that the fault of the other class, or the fault of the Fighter class?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Archon Tom wrote:

I really want to like this, but it really does seem overpowered. At level 1 a Legendary Shifter has 3 natural attacks each doing 1d6 + Str mod damage, all at full attack bonus (so 3d6 + 3 Str mod total).

Compare this to a fighter with a greatsword doing 2d6 + 1.5 Str mod damage. The shifter is easily out-fighting the fighter, without even needing a weapon! And this is before even considering the cool array of shapeshifting powers the shifter gets.
I prefer the way the shapeshifting works in this version, but unless I'm overlooking something I don't see why anyone would ever play a fighter next to these guys.

This is a reasonable concern, but the thing is, that's just natural attacks in general. It's not even a little difficult for any build to gain 3 natural attacks to start. There's plenty of races (such as catfolk, tiefling, ratfolk with a feat, a large swath of skinwalkers) that can gain claws very easily, along with taking traits to gain a bite attack. The idea of gaining this many natural attacks can be done without limits rather than how the legendary shifter is limited to only being able to get them in specific forms and for limited amounts of time per day.

Races that can do that don't even require class levels to do this, allowing them to be fighters and do the same thing you're stating here. You also have to consider that these natural attacks need 3 different attack rolls to connect to put out that kind of damage; this skewes them closer to average damage rather than the greatsword, which is far more swingy.

This is also considering that manufactured weapons are far more easily enhanced and can benefit from special materials. Single weapons also benefit more from power attack and deal more damage with attacks of opportunity, as well as being easier to augment with feats (taking weapon focus: greatsword is easier than taking two different weapon focuses for claws and bite, as well as feats like improved critical and such, benefiting a singular weapon more than natural attacks).

As to why anyone would ever play a fighter against this, the same question could be brought up against the majority of full BAB classes, especially things like barbarian, paladin, ranger, slayer, bloodrager, and avenger vigilante. I recognize that you may have a standard for the fighter in the sense of its power and importance, but the game design as a whole has passed it by (and yes, I am considering advanced weapon training in this statement), and having this class be held back by the fighter's power level would have resulted in a project that wasn't up to my standards or legendary game's standards.

Natural attacks are a powerful style of combat, and early they may seem overpowered, but for the most part, the numbers even out more and more as you go later into things. I won't say that the legendary shifter isn't more powerful than a fighter, as I do believe it is, but the primary selling point of the class isn't intended to be damage, it's versatility (another thing at which it beats the fighter). It's the legendary games way to try and bring others up to par rather than lowering something to a point where it's less fun to play, as seen by the rebuild of the fighter class, a class which is very much closer in line with the legendary shifter.

Sure, you can consider this power creep, but at a certain point, older content needs to be boosted to reach the standard that new content has reached (vigilante basically being rogue+++) in order to keep those older concepts as viable as they were when the game started. That's always been my intended goal, but as always, it's up to others to decide if that goal has been reached.

I appreciate your feedback here though, as it does let me know the concerns of building things like this and the possible issues that may occur because of it.


Can Paizo just link to this version of Shifter and completely make theirs obsolete? Especially since they stopped working on fixing the Shifter entirely now.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Thanks to everybody for taking the time to review this book - we're delighted by the response to it and hope you all continue to enjoy it!


Reviewed first on endzeitgeist.com, then submitted to Nerdtrek and GMS magazine and posted here, on OBS, etc.


Endzeitgeist wrote:
Reviewed first on endzeitgeist.com, then submitted to Nerdtrek and GMS magazine and posted here, on OBS, etc.

So what shapeshifting class do you like the most?


Well, it depends; for shapechanging based on the spell-engine/established transmutation, nothing beats LG's shifter. If it had a few more engine-based shenanigans to modify them, it would have been the perfect shifter class in my book. As a person, I like classes doing unique things, so I do have a bit of a soft spot for IG's Animist and the shpeshifting tricks of Spheres of Power; the Liber Influxus Communis' Metamorph and AAW Games' Underterror do the eidolon-partial-shifter-engine pretty well. I also recall a couple of faceless man-style archetypes, but I'd have to search through my library/ask my players.

Hope that helps!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Urgh, forgot Alexander Augunas' also really amazing shifter from Paranormal Adventures! Blame it on being tired from traveling...


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Question:
Does a Lycanthropic Warrior qualify for the Morphic Berserker feat?
Or any of the feats in this book besides Animal Spirit?


RAW answers:

1) No, the lycanthropic warrior trades in defensive instinct and thus doesn't meet Morphic Berserker's prerequisites. Theoretically, if you get your hands on intelligent instinct, whimsical aura, or unsettling aura in some way, you may take the feat, as per the Special line's stipulations, but since they all replace defensive instinct, that is very much a stretch.
2) There are only 7 feats in the book, many of which aim at multiclass functionality. LW qualifies for Animal Spirit, Miniature Reach.

Hope that helps!

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