Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Taldor, the First Empire (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Taldor, the First Empire (PFRPG)
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Taldor Endures!

The first—and at one point, largest—empire in Avistan after devastation of Earthfall, Taldor has stood for millennia, and though its neighboring nations snicker at its lavish parties and out-of-touch nobility, none dare challenge the mother empire's might! With 6 millennia of history spanning the breadth of a continent, Taldor is a land of long-buried secrets and ruins, partnered with modern cutthroat dramas and political action. Secrets and treasure abound across Taldor—many forgotten, but far more deliberately buried. Will you fight to preserve the glorious traditions of the past, or will you pave the way for a reformed Taldor to attain new heights?

Taldor is the dynamic setting for the War for the Crown Adventure Path, making this comprehensive guide to the nation's geography, politics, and history a perfect resource for that campaign, as well as for many Pathfinder Module adventures! Inside this book you'll find:

  • A thorough gazetteer of Taldor's major prefectures and provinces, including details on the reigning nobles of each and over 70 points of interest across the nation, from Antios's Crown and its endless royal necropolis to the militarized city of Zimar.
  • An overview of Taldor's government, foreign relationships, and society.
  • Nearly a dozen adventure sites tied to Taldor's past glories and modern decay, from ruined cities to lost valleys of the dead.
  • Nine new monsters perfectly adapted to life in Taldor, including the corrupting giniver, perfectly suited to hiding in plain sight, and testaments to noble excess such as the titanboar and the blood-bathing baetriov.

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Taldor, The First Empire is intended for use with the Pathfinder campaign setting, but it can be easily adapted to any fantasy world.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-999-8

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscription.

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Taldar Land of Intrigue

4/5

Not one of my first choices(or second, third, etc.) but still a good read none the less.


Gives Taldor enough Detail to be Playable

4/5

I wrote a lengthy review that the website ate and I don't have the energy to redo it.

The short version is that previously published Taldor material was thin to the point that to set a game in Taldor you would have to basically create the nation from scratch. This book fixes that problem. If you want to run a game in Taldor it is essential, if you want to run a game in the Inner Sea where the PCs can go to Taldor it is very useful.


Glorious!

5/5

This book is rich with culture, history and geography! this reads like a novel, and I find every page containing interesting trivia and long awaited answers to my most Taldane of questions!

The Golden Age of Taldor map is brilliant, and we also get a full timeline for Taldor. Interactions with other cultures is discussed, and a section on religion give us hints on who is considered to be the true 'Taldan Pantheon' (with a satisfying nod to Aroden and its 'arcane' clerics... must... build... one... :) )

The map of Taldor and its prefectures will also become an invaluable tool to any GM running a game set there, which only further aggrandizes its sister achievement and masterpiece: a full geographical section on each prefecture of Taldor, as well as supplementaty information on the provinces (apparently in Taldor, both Bill and Hillary bow to the elephant cavalry!). This section is, for the lack of a better word, a veritable tour-de-force!

Then we have a section on various sites within the Empire, and the coolest harpy cleric of Groetus I've ever seen (when she told you she'd give you the moon she wasn't kidding gents!) This section is a great idea generator for GMs wishing to run their own campaigns or supplement published Taldor-based adventures with a spiffy sidequest or two...

At the end we have a small bestiary which will allow druids and rangers to proudly call their next pet 'titanboar' or 'fading fox' or 'emperor stag'. Selective breeding is a thing in Taldor, and not only for their horses, but for their game too! but for the rest of the bestiary I'll stay silent so as not to spoil that most excellent new bathrobe wearing undead. 'New bathrobe'-wearing undead; or new 'bathrobe-wearing undead', as in new undead? hmmm... hmmm.... who can tell? [/goldblum mode]

Taldor deserved a lore-only book like this. Your mechanical queries can be addressed by the dozens of books preceding this one, but the knowledge gained within these pages will turn the most bland barbarian into a hardcore or unchained Ulfen devotee of the Lion Throne!

Taldor is Avistan.


Mixed bag.

3/5

Lots of flavor. Lots of geography. Not much substance. If you are running a game in Taldor, it's probably a good idea to get this book.

The bestiary in the back feels out of place. IMO use that space to talk about the specifics of Taldor nobility.

There are no mechanics in this book (save the bestiary), which makes it feel out of place IMO. A lot of Campaign Setting books have mechanics in them these days.

Bit of an odd duck. 3 out of 5 stars.


Disappointed

1/5

I was really hyped to hear one of my favorite locales on Golarion was getting revisited. After all it had been more than 8 years since Taldor was explored and given the new 68 page format of the country sourcebooks I assumed many details could be explored.

Unfortunately this book did not impress me at all. It was lackluster and pretty bland, no wow, no pizzazz. It did not inspire any additional interest in Taldor.

The book is divided into four parts so Ill briefly talk about each of them without giving too much away.

Life in Taldor – The first section details a history of the people of Taldor and lightly touches on the nobility and titles of Taldor. I was especially disappointed in this. Nobility and titles in Taldor are a cornerstone of this nation, something that make it distinctive in character from other nations, a highlight of that nation and yet the titles section was given a half-page description of generic noble titles, many titles previously describe we not even written about or mentioned.

The history of its Imperial house was non-existent, there was no list of Grand Princes, nothing descriptive of noble houses. I mean at this point I don’t know the name of the imperial house of Taldor because it remained as skeletal in description as what is found in the Inner Sea Guide. There was just nothing.

Gone was any mention of The Bearded as the ruling social class as it was ret-conned and minimized like the banning of Sarenrae. It fails to detail any of the more than 50 Grand Duchies and their locations other than 12 that correspond with the primary prefectures that it states are in the Empire.

The history section is mainly a descriptive rehash of events that have been already covered in other books, there were very few new events detailed within. More could have been included for an empire that is six thousand years old. The description of the Taldan people was literally two paragraphs long and the other two pages spent on the topic were on Chelaxans, Andorans and other surrounding nations and races.

Gazetteer – The Gazetteer generally does a good job at describing the twelve main prefectures of Taldor and it adds some details, new cities and locales and personalities. One of my favorite parts was some details on the ruling nobles of the prefectures. The cities described were mainly just that descriptions – there were no details on population, racial make-up, no flavoring whatsoever.

Adventures in Taldor - This part is a good but brief description of some key locales within Taldor. Each locale is given a one page description, with details and major NPC descriptions which is probably enough to get a GM to build his own adventures around.

Bestiary – This part is really unnecessary and should have been relegated to the upcoming AP. The monsters are lackluster. Taldor is supposed to be an Empire that tamed its heartland so the real monsters should be the humans within. But the book doesn’t do much in that aspect.

There is no mention of the lands directly to the east of the empire. How they may have affected the empire or anything. The updated map was pretty good I did like that they included some locals from the novels and pathfinder scenarios, except that Yanmass still has two locations in previous maps - one next to the river and another away from it. Even the novel Shy Knives have it located near the river. So I am not sure if Yanmass is a port city or a city in the center of the plains.

Overall this book is a huge disappointment for a nation whose ruling class is supposed to be a distinctive feature that is supposed to add to the character of Taldor. Yet it does very little to fill that gap, it leaves Taldor feeling generic and boring.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Dragon78 wrote:
Who is this "she" everyone is talking about?

Princess Eutropia I believe


I'm starting a Taldor-based campaign right around now, so I wish this was already out. Will wait with bated breath for it and then can adjust/incorporate elements into my campaign as necessary...


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Wouldn't it be more interesting if Eutropia was solidly Neutral instead of Evil or Good? Maybe make it so that while is she disgusted by the corruption and decline of Taldor she's still an imperialist that believes that Galt, Andoran, and Cheliax must one day rejoin the empire for their own good.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Hmm, no, I'd find her more interesting if she was Good and not only trying to save her nation but gain and help her nation's allies as well.

Taldor needs heroes.


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Rysky wrote:

Hmm, no, I'd find her more interesting if she was Good and not only trying to save her nation but gain and help her nation's allies as well.

Taldor needs heroes.

To each their own I suppose. But I like the notion that Taldor is a very complicated nation that's problems are not just a case of the nobility being Evil. Unlike Cheliax, Irrisen, Nidal, or Geb which are outright Evil because Asmoedus, Baba Yaga, Zon-Kuthon, or undead have just taken over the country, Taldor is in decline because various economic, social and political issues that cannot be easily fixed. There's no big bad in Taldor just lots of morally ambiguous intrigue and what's what makes it interesting and different to me.

Plus, having Princess Eutropia be the enlightened, forward thinking female ruler ironically enough feels kind of old hat given that White Estrid and Queen Telandia Edasseril already have that theme as well. That's why think making her a Neutral or Lawful Neutral aligned female character that's a determined yet ruthless reformer would be more innovative in Paizo's case. It could her challenging nuance and players something more complex to deal with. Besides, Neutrals and Lawful Neutrals are still totally heroes even if they a bit overly pragmatic.

Hope this makes sense, Rysky. And I hope we both kind of get what we want.

tl;dr - I hope Eutropia takes after Stannis Baratheon over Daenerys "White Savior" Targaryen.

Silver Crusade

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Delightful wrote:
Plus, having Princess Eutropia be the enlightened, forward thinking female ruler ironically enough feels kind of old hat given that White Estrid and Queen Telandia Edasseril already have that theme as well.

... having only two other enlightened/competent/forward thinking women leaders (and only one is Good) in the entire world doesn't make having a third an "old hat". Not even close.

Liberty's Edge Developer

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Rysky wrote:
Delightful wrote:
Plus, having Princess Eutropia be the enlightened, forward thinking female ruler ironically enough feels kind of old hat given that White Estrid and Queen Telandia Edasseril already have that theme as well.

... having only two other enlightened/competent/forward thinking women leaders (and only one is Good) in the entire world doesn't make having a third an "old hat". Not even close.

ONE other enlightened female, since White Estrid is, y'know, absolutely nothing like what he described as being out for herself. She just happens to be the one queen in a setting that mostly has kings.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Crystal Frasier wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Delightful wrote:
Plus, having Princess Eutropia be the enlightened, forward thinking female ruler ironically enough feels kind of old hat given that White Estrid and Queen Telandia Edasseril already have that theme as well.

... having only two other enlightened/competent/forward thinking women leaders (and only one is Good) in the entire world doesn't make having a third an "old hat". Not even close.

ONE other enlightened female, since White Estrid is, y'know, absolutely nothing like what he described as being out for herself. She just happens to be the one queen in a setting that mostly has kings.

And has an awesome Linnorm buddy ^w^

(Sadly this is the extent of my knowledge about White Estrid :()


Rysky wrote:
Delightful wrote:
Plus, having Princess Eutropia be the enlightened, forward thinking female ruler ironically enough feels kind of old hat given that White Estrid and Queen Telandia Edasseril already have that theme as well.

... having only two other enlightened/competent/forward thinking women leaders (and only one is Good) in the entire world doesn't make having a third an "old hat". Not even close.

There's also Queen Galfry of Mendev! I see your point though. I find the lack of female heads of state that are Good is more of a result that most rulers are non-Good in Golarion to begin with. My point was though with those examples still being around why can't Taldor have a different type of female heroine that's a bit on the more morally ambiguous said? To me that gives greater roleplay opportunities for players to affect whether her possible future AP in Taldor has her be more pragmatic or idealistic.

Plus, Paizo doesn't exist in a vacuum. A lot of other creative works seem determined to have princess characters be the young, willful idealists, and while at first I think that trope was a great progressive archetype that moved away from the passive virgin trope it has become in my opinion a new box that female characters are forced into.

But, hey, this all relative opinion and desire. Hopefully no matter what happens Paizo does something interesting.


Rysky wrote:
Crystal Frasier wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Delightful wrote:
Plus, having Princess Eutropia be the enlightened, forward thinking female ruler ironically enough feels kind of old hat given that White Estrid and Queen Telandia Edasseril already have that theme as well.

... having only two other enlightened/competent/forward thinking women leaders (and only one is Good) in the entire world doesn't make having a third an "old hat". Not even close.

ONE other enlightened female, since White Estrid is, y'know, absolutely nothing like what he described as being out for herself. She just happens to be the one queen in a setting that mostly has kings.

And has an awesome Linnorm buddy ^w^

(Sadly this is the extent of my knowledge about White Estrid :()

She's actually really cool! Besides taming (or befriending) a linnorm, she pulled off an awesome raid on Nidal's capital, broke a Chelish blockade at the Arch of Aroden and sold all her sweet loot in Absalom. She also thinks magic is neat so I suppose she's kind of nerd too.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Going with the general vibe that good-aligned rulers are rare (presumably) because their values tend to clash with a certain ruthlessness and pragmatism that seems to be necessary to achieve and/or maintain power, it would certainly be interesting to see how they pull it off.

The bureaucrat on the throne by day, crime-fighting vigilante by night could be a thing, but it's also kind of stereotypical. A leader who subtly and openly empowers others (supporting a free and independent press, strengthening civil society, financing lawyers that defend the fundamental freedoms of the people in court, patronage of like-minded individuals etc.) would be more interesting.

Normally, the big reveal ("she was behind all of this the whole time!") is reserved for the villainess. I wonder if it could work the other way around as well (the PCs suddenly gaining a lot of respect for the queen as they figure out that she is the brilliant mastermind working behind the scenes to promote her vision of benevolent rulership).


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I know close to nothing about Taldor outside of what is in the Inner Sea World Guide... ><'

This book will certainly help me a lot. I hope there are illustrations for the most important NPCs - at least for Stavian III and Eutropia, I'm really found of illustrations for the relevant characters in a setting.

It's funny how I can relate Eutropia's name to utopia and entropy... =D


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The name actually means "versatile". It's an Roman or Ancient Greek name, and indeed there was a Roman princess of that name, a half-sister of Constantine the Great.

Shadow Lodge

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While I'm personally sick to death of the exact troupe Rysky is asking for here, I guess the best route, and one that I think would work very well for a book on Taldor would be to present a lot of options suggesting and hinting at both options being very valid possibilities.

A little bit more back on topic, one of the aspects of Taldor I'd like to see emphasized is the idea that they are a huge percentage of patrons for various ideas, enterprises, the arts, expeditions, etc. . . comes from Taldor or Taldor's nobility and riches. That Taldor is still very much interested in advancing cultural advancement, education, and artistry, and despite being an empire in decline, is still first and foremost in these fields.

I've also been very intrigued by the concepts of the Bearded and Unbearded. Especially if viewed similar to some of the things from Kingdom of Heaven (Does making someone a Knight make them a better fighter? -> YES!) or A Knight's Tale. I both loved the idea that it presented a form of meritocracy where anyone could earn a power/influence/nobility by exceptional actions, but also that it can be used to remove potentially key figures from rebelling or causing trouble, or to cause rivals more trouble.

I also really liked that Grand Prince Stavian III was having an issue with an heir, as being a patrilineal society would really play against not only most other nations, but especially Qadira.

Knightly Orders is a must. But also the military. Because Taldor has travelled to, warred with, and incorporated just about everyone's warriors, I'd expect one of the huge benefits that Taldor's military is know for is it's ability to improvise against most other styles other nations are known for, and having taken some of the better aspects of their fighting styles and made it part of their common training. A strong look at enough material to play a military or knightly campaign would be great, and I think fit very well in this book.

Additionally the concept of the Ulfen Guard. Additionally other Taldan factions, groups, sects, etc. . . We really don't need much on The Lion's Blades, but they and the Ulfen Guard can't really be it.

Strong looks at what Taldor does, has, and is strong or good at, and NOT what it isn't, used to do, or used to be, (except for historical references).

Silver Crusade

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DM Beckett wrote:
While I'm personally sick to death of the exact troupe Rysky is asking for here,

Where and what are all the other examples of this "Good Princess saves her country from Evil/Corrupt family or other nobles trope" in recent memory? Because I can't really think of any, especially not in Pathfinder.

Liberty's Edge Developer

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Quote:
Where and what are all the other examples of this "Good Princess saves her country from Evil/Corrupt family or other nobles trope" in recent memory? Because I can't really think of any, especially not in Pathfinder.

Even less than once is too much for a certain mindset of people.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What I would like to see is princess Eutropia being someone like queen Elizabeth or Victoria a woman of power seeking to revolutionize Taldan society.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

While that is a good idea, I don't think your examples are terribly good. Victoria was the essence of conservatism, Elizebeth 1 was largely interested in staying alive , and so set a moderating course between the policies of her brother and sister and in the environment of the radical changes made by her father , and Elizebeth II is a truly constitutional monarch careful to have no opinion on political matters (in public)

Shadow Lodge

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Crystal Frasier wrote:
Quote:
Where and what are all the other examples of this "Good Princess saves her country from Evil/Corrupt family or other nobles trope" in recent memory? Because I can't really think of any, especially not in Pathfinder.
Even less than once is too much for a certain mindset of people.

Actually, no ma'am. It and similar tropes are something we have been bombarded with for years, from Quest for Camelot to Star Wars (ALL), to Frozen, to Mulan. It is, HOWEVER, NOT the point of this thread, and I'm making an effort not to go off topic.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Neither Mulan nor the forgettable protagonist of Quest for Camelot were particularly princess-y. Nor does Princess Leia, in her combat fatigues with blaster pistol in hand, strike me as particularly trope-laden. (And neither Rey nor Jyn can even barely be considered princesses.) Frozen, maybe; I haven't seen it yet. So there's possibly one.

1,000 bonus points for using the word "Actually" in your post instead of merely implying it, though.

Sovereign Court

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If we're going to start pulling in out-of-Golarion references, then I've been bombarded by "competent woman seeks to rule, archaic rules and a heavily ingrained patriarchy stop her" since November. I'm f%~%ing tired of it. Don't even claim a couple Disney movies top that.

Given that Taldor is the country closest to "traditional fantasy" tropes and all of the heavily male dominated stories that come from that, yes, I'd like to see something different. There are plenty of interesting things that can come out from Princess Eutropia being good - leadership is hard and full of tough decisions. She doesn't need to be the villain to do that. (And we really don't need that for PFS, given the direction the Sovereign Court storyline has gone.)

Liberty's Edge Developer

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Kalindlara wrote:

Neither Mulan nor the forgettable protagonist of Quest for Camelot were particularly princess-y. Nor does Princess Leia, in her combat fatigues with blaster pistol in hand, strike me as particularly trope-laden. (And neither Rey nor Jyn can even barely be considered princesses.) Frozen, maybe; I haven't seen it yet. So there's possibly one.

1,000 bonus points for using the word "Actually" in your post instead of merely implying it, though.

Again, for a certain category of people, any example of women not being evil schemers is part of some "tired trope" or just an imposition on their fun.

Shadow Lodge

Iammars wrote:
If we're going to start pulling in out-of-Golarion references, then I've been bombarded by "competent woman seeks to rule, archaic rules and a heavily ingrained patriarchy stop her" since November. I'm f$+@ing tired of it. Don't even claim a couple Disney movies top that.

Firstly, what exactly do you think trope means? :p

Lets be clear here. I have zero problem with her being good, or a good aligned princess, or prince or whatever. I just do not find it at all interesting, especially as she is so perfectly poised to be such a great villain. Making her the "competent woman seeks to rule, archaic rules and a heavily ingrained patriarchy stop her" is boring as s+&~ and ultimately a let down.

Granted, this is obviously not a universal view, but, to me, it's just very weak storytelling. HOWEVER, ONCE AGAIN, THE POINT IS THAT THAT IS NOT THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD.

Liberty's Edge

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It's also telling that you see "decent good-aligned princess" as a tired trope. That doesn't mean an uncomplicated character, or a character that doesn't make mistakes or have misguided policies as as ruler.... I'm just "blergh" with continuing to have women be corrupt or otherwise evil rulers.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Lets be clear here. I have zero problem with Taldor being a stifling patriarchy. I just do not find it at all interesting, especially as it is so perfectly poised to be such a great geopolitical force. Allowing it to be "competent woman seeks to rule, archaic rules and a heavily ingrained patriarchy stop her" is boring as s$$* and ultimately a let down.

Granted, this is obviously not a universal view, but, to me, it's just very weak storytelling. HOWEVER, ONCE AGAIN, THE POINT IS THAT THAT IS NOT THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD.

Sovereign Court

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As a hero, Eutropia is poised to make much more interesting decisions. Even the goal of her assuming the throne is liable to throw Taldor into civil war. Who knows what negative side effects her ideas for reforming the noble classes might have. Having a Good alignment doesn't mean characters have to support her.

Sovereign Court

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KingOfAnything wrote:
Having a Good alignment doesn't mean characters have to support her.

Especially since the few storylines we have of her from PFS has been focused around how she's having lots of trouble doing that and who she has to make alliances with in order to help out with that goal. That's super interesting!


Meanwhile, on the "More Information about Taldor's power blocs front"... the Faction Guide presented 2-page spreads on the Kitharodian Academy, Lion Blades, and Ulfen Guards. Shockingly, since it was also one of Mark Moreland's first projects at Paizo, I suspect he may have some passing familiarity with the content. :) I would expect capsule summaries of these groups, with the interested reader being directed to the Faction Guide for more details.

Taldor's Knighthood was touched on in Knights of the Inner Sea (along with those of other nations).

The Kitharodian Acedemy makes a return appearance in Inner Sea Intrigue.

The Taldor Player Companion has more setting content than current Player Companions do, largely because the early ones had to do more of the "introducing X nation" work than the later ones. I am hopeful that this book will expand on those concepts, but there's actually quite a bit of cultural and historical info in the Player Companion already.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

About Eutropia we've been told this supplement won't change the political situation of Taldor as a Country so I don't get why people talk about what should Eutropia do when she gets the Throne. She's not going to get it it the near future if ever.

Personally I feel like she should be neutral. We know she wants the throne and is currently searching for legal precedents legally cementing her claim. She's not in the best position right now and seems willing to make bold moves to improve her situation.
I think she needs to be some sort of foil for her father. The grand prince is CN and he's described as follows in the wiki:

Pathfinder Wiki wrote:
As a ruler, Stavian III is as dissolute as the rest of his nation, and prone to much bitterness. He is an awkward man who dallies in frivolous activities and surrounds himself with sycophants, while the actual management of Taldor is left to the bureaucracy. Despite his licentious behaviour, Stavian III has proven himself a cunning administrator and has strengthened the position of emperor since the weak rule of his father, Stavian II

He works as a dissolute if (sometimes) shrewd ruler who doesn't really care for Taldor's current state of affairs as long as he gets to keep the power. I think Eutropia should be someone who wants to bring back Taldor's glory, but that doesn't mean she should be good alligned. The hard decisions required for ruling a Country like Taldor don't go well with good allignment imo (and besides she's said to be willing to go to war if she doesn't get the throne once her father is dead).


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Rogar Valertis wrote:
besides she's said to be willing to go to war if she doesn't get the throne once her father is dead).

Being willing to go to war would keep people from having a 'good' alignment?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
CrystalSeas wrote:
Rogar Valertis wrote:
besides she's said to be willing to go to war if she doesn't get the throne once her father is dead).
Being willing to go to war would keep people from having a 'good' alignment?

Depends on the reason. As I read it she's willing to cause a civil war with potentially thousands of casualities and, given how Taldor is surrounded by enemies at every side, to cause her nation's final collapse just to get a throne she feels she rightfully deserves. That's not how I define "good" in my games. There's nothing selfless in her reasoning as presented.

That said the material is old. For example Sativan III is said to continue the persecution of the cult of the Dawnflower, while that's been changed in more recent material, so the what Eutropia is willing to do might have been changed too.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Are we going to get troops with some sort of beard powered attack.

And an update of the magical walking divan. :-)

Sovereign Court

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Put me in the "Eutropia as driven, ruthless, and self-sacrificing for the greater good of Taldor" category. Somewhat like Elizabeth I (at least the movie version of her). Not necessarily nice, but not evil or even selfish... just driven. Willing to make tough decisions for the greater good. Drag Taldor into the modern age, whether it's ready or not. She could be both a friend and a foil, depending on the situation.

I'm also for Taldor being mostly anti-Sarenrae. It takes a while to get over a conquest/re-conquest. I like the complexity that not every good god is welcomed in every country. And, other than halfling slavery, the Inner Sea is pretty light on persecution, particularly religious. It doesn't have to be public heretic burning or anything, just illegal and frowned on by the general populace. Again, something that I think would add to Taldor's complexity as a solidly Neutral nation.


Crystal Frasier wrote:

And the drow. And Blood Mistress Jakalyn of Mediogalti. And the Widow Queen of Isger. And Arazni in geb. And Areelu Vorlesh in the Worldwound.

Paizo's "trope" is really "women make evil and corrupt rulers." Having a good female ruler is what would actually turn our norm on its head.

They tend to get into wars more often than men, if you think war is evil, then I guess the trope is a bit on the nose.

Silver Crusade

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Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Crystal Frasier wrote:

And the drow. And Blood Mistress Jakalyn of Mediogalti. And the Widow Queen of Isger. And Arazni in geb. And Areelu Vorlesh in the Worldwound.

Paizo's "trope" is really "women make evil and corrupt rulers." Having a good female ruler is what would actually turn our norm on its head.

They tend to get into wars more often than men, if you think war is evil, then I guess the trope is a bit on the nose.

Right...


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What was this thread about originally?

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I had something for this.


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This is totally random, but I invision Eutropia as a Sailor Moon type Princess, mild young lady by day kick butt magical girl by night!


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That would be funny if she turned out to be a vigilante:)

Paizo Employee Developer

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Funny for you, maybe, but not so funny for her enemies. Are you sure you aren't one of them?


What about making her an Alchemist with the Mad Scientist archetype. Or what about having her as a Silksworn Occultist. No wait, make her a Cayden Cailean Cleric with the Brewkeeper prestige class!

Magical girls are awesome but I think Eutropia deserves to be much weirder (and cooler) than that, right?

Silver Crusade

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Or an Agathiel Vigilante.


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I would say she should be a vigilante(magical child), kineticist, or bard(maybe with some kind of princess archetype).


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

....err...or just an NPC with levels of aristocrat and only a few non npc class levels (Bard maybe?).

I mean optimally any AP about Taldor should star the PC's. In which case Eutropia really shouldn't be the one charging and and constantly saving the day.

Shadow Lodge

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The main reason I was not really a fan of the Princess was I thought the Grand Prince would make a perfect Vigilante, sort of similar to Bruce Wayne in the Dark Knight, where as Grand Prince he pretends to be a decadent and somewhat powerless ruler and minorish mage, but at night takes to the streets. He was the first person I thought of when the class was being discussed and developed.

What if both where Vigilantes, neither knowing the truth about the other?


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MMCJawa wrote:

....err...or just an NPC with levels of aristocrat and only a few non npc class levels (Bard maybe?).

I mean optimally any AP about Taldor should star the PC's. In which case Eutropia really shouldn't be the one charging and and constantly saving the day.

Agreed.. the nature of complex political rivalries often means that the leading figures are held at bay by each other... leaving the active roles to their agents (PCs in some cases).

I still hope to someday see a class that is tied to the use of Capital (Goods, Influence, Labor, and Magic as well as gold) from Ultimate Campaign ... and a practical set of NPCs tied to Kingdom Roles (so the "Marshal" faction is lobbying for increased spending on X while the "Grand Admiral" faction is pushing for Y).


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Rysky wrote:
Or an Agathiel Vigilante.

Wait. That's the archetype that makes you a holy warrior furry superhero, right?

OMG! If Paizo does that I am so giving them all my money!

It would be a great opportunity for pseudo-furry representation in Paizo product!

Dooooooo eet.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
MMCJawa wrote:

....err...or just an NPC with levels of aristocrat and only a few non npc class levels (Bard maybe?).

I mean optimally any AP about Taldor should star the PC's. In which case Eutropia really shouldn't be the one charging and and constantly saving the day.

Having PC class levels doesn't mean any of that. Look at any AP, you'll find tons of characters with PC class levels who don't do that.


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MMCJawa wrote:

....err...or just an NPC with levels of aristocrat and only a few non npc class levels (Bard maybe?).

I mean optimally any AP about Taldor should star the PC's. In which case Eutropia really shouldn't be the one charging and and constantly saving the day.

Since when having PC levels means a NPC is going to steal the spotlight from the PCs?

I don't think Eutropia should be a Vigilante but she could very well be a Sorceress 06/ Swashbuckler 05 (for example) without having to save the PCs time and again. Characters like her are meant to give PCs quests or to serve as foils for them.

Silver Crusade

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I really want her to be a Bloodrager now.

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