A Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for levels 7-11.
For millennia an order of scholars known as the Jeweled Sages catalogued the wisdom and lore of northern Garund's greatest minds within crystalline artifacts. Though these sage jewels have recently resurfaced, so too has the new generation of sages learned that something else dwells within besides ancient memories. The entire order gathers where the Jeweled Sages truly began in order to confront their hidden past, purge an ancient evil that has haunted them for ages, and define the future of the Scarab Sages faction.
Contents in Salvation of the Sages also contribute directly to the ongoing storyline of the Scarab Sages faction.
This scenario took 6 hours to go through for our group and trust me, it could've easily taken 8 hours if you let it all happen fully and try to give a better experience. I only managed to have it he 6 hours cause I just brushed over half of the second map. Let it be known I'll always talk about the scenario as written here. You can make it way better by 1) scheduling two sessions for it and 2) adding way more flavor and RP potential and possibilities
Spoiler:
Let's go over the 4 parts of the scenario one by one: the sages and the intro, the first battle, the exploration middle part and the last fight with the ritual.
The intro was not good at all. For people who don't know the sages and their struggle fully, the entire intro made no sense. So many complicated and confusing names, so many plotpoints being thrown around, I had to give my players a summary after the whole thing OOC so they understand even remotely what is going on.
Then they meet the sages. In a scenario where you meet ALL SAGES, you're obviously supposed to interact with all of them, have some cool RP, but it was just too many. Apart from managing 6 voices and 6 personalities and cramping those in a miniscule timeframe, my players also didn't care. There was no need at all to interact with them. But even if they wanted to, the scenario gives like no input on them. This is supposed to be a conclusion scenario for an entire faction, but then each of the sages only gets like 3 sentences written about them. The only guy they actually kinda knew was Torch.... At later parts they get a sage as a companion, but they lack stuff like saving throws??? Saving throws and attacks just both, always automatically succeeed. That makes it easier for the DM but the players HATED that.
Then the first battle happened. We played high with 4 player adjustment because of the APL being on 9. So instead of having a good and well balanced fight (so the lower subtier without adjustment), one of the troops got taken away, so they took out the second troop in a single round. But then the Gashadokuro had its turn, used its breath weapon once, and instantly killed one of the players. from 100% HP to negative CON, with one breath weapon. Thank god one of our players took a pregen and played one with breath of life... The fight is so immensely awfully balanced. And here is where the first new thing comes into play: Troops! Some DMs might've done stuff with them before, but I haven't. Would it have been the only abnormally from a normal scenario it would've been find, but that was far from he only thing. Because there was so much going on, I even forgot about the auras and the Grasping Graves. Would I also have remembered those, they would've certainly faced death first combat. The hazard on the map has 3 different components to remember, together with the monolith "trap", which is completely under-explained. "Arcane runes cover the basalt monolith", WHICH MONOLITH? The map doesn't specify. There is no marker, nothing there hints at where this stuff emanates from. Then there are no visual clues for the players as to what is going on with that thing, I had to make that up myself, which is fine but still poor scenario writing.
The next part is the exploration segment. It is said they get a sage to explore with them, who gets weird flashes from that area, but these flashes are never explained either. It's just "uhh ohh I feel like the jewel is remembering this. Want me to dig deeper and try to remember more?", like the hell. Give the DM a bit more input on that stuff. If you wanna give the players a choice, you gotta actually have the choice be present. The players were just weirded out by it. Then here we have several new things to work with. The cleansing room which was lacking in descriptions of magic auras and anything else important. The mindscape with the Div inside who was completely lacking any personality. Once a player succeeded the check to find out its real identity, I had it just drop the masquerade. So then the players asked "which are the dangerous doors?" and since the creatures always lies, it pointed out the safe rooms. That felt good for the players, since they were smarter than a div, but felt cheap for the DM cause the creature was completely lacking in motive and personality. The acid room... How were they supposed to know its acid?? And what is "Powerful Acid"? I wasn't able to find that ANYWHERE. When their check found out its just a flame spell, they just ignored it, without even knowing its acid. Why exactly is the "cramped remains of a large blue dragon infected with an incurable variant of Fading Light" a hazard? Once again, no explanation or guidance at all for the DM. It is called a Hazard, but nowhere is it said what the problem with it is. My players instinctively went "no touchy", but I didn't even know why not to touch it. Just completely lackluster on explanations for the DM, which is the only reason why they managed to contain such a huge module into 35 pages.
And lastly, the boss fight. SO MUCH GOING ON. You know what this fight was? Someone must've played too much Undertale, because this was just the final boss fight in the pacifist run.... One player pointed it out and it was spot on. Don't get me wrong, the fight was very cool, very creative! I think this part was the best part of the entire session, sadly it still fell short. The DM gets BOMBARDED with backstory for Aryana, which the players never really get to see, but that is a given with Society. I really liked the Paladin, he gave the whole thing some cool bonus, since Antipaladins are rare. The mindscapes were kinda cool, getting to look inside of the Sages heads, but it fell short because at that point we were already on the 5 hour mark and nobody cared anymore really, since they were tired. Getting to know more about Torch was cool, but the other sages all felt so bland and boring. The ghost siphoning power from the stones was very cool, but once again a new aspect that the DM had to work with. The entire scenario is just a whole overburden when DMs are used to normal scenarios and prep times.
TLDR the scenario had so much amazing potential but it tried to do way too much in a 4 hour time frame that it didn't do a single thing really right. If you wanna run this, do the theme justice. Schedule 2 sessions (or 8 hours for your players. If you don't take that long, go get food afterwards, it'll be 6 hours for sure). Read it far in advance, make better sheets for the sages, give them true personalities, give your players a chance to actually interact with them. And know which PCs they'll bring, so you can figure out which scenarios they were in, that way Torch's knowledge of them will be cooler. If this was a module and better done, it would be awesome. But the way it stands now, it's bad.
I started playing Salvation of the Sages with my half-orc Paladin of Sarenrae. I say "started" because I had to leave before the first encounter due to a plot point discussed in the spoilers below. Suffice it to say, there's something that makes this scenario very hard for paladins and certain other character concepts to play within alignment and other restrictions. Putting that to one side, however, the scenario looks really interesting, has an epic conclusion, and nicely resolves some long-standing storylines within PFS. I guess I'd recommend it for those PCs with more . . . flexible . . . conceptions of morality.
SPOILERS!:
Salvation of the Sages starts with a briefing in the city of Merab in Osirion. Venture-Captain Diya Akan and one of the jewelled sages, Tahonikepsu, explain the situation. The sage jewels used by the leaders of the faction have, since their inception, been contaminated with a fragment of the soul of an evil necromancer named Aryana Tahari. Although at present the contamination manifests as easily-resisted evil thoughts and urgings, the influence of Tahari's soul seems to be growing. The jewelled sages have decided to come together as a group and try to remove the contamination before it becomes too powerful and leads the order into evil. To do this, they need to perform a ritual at the heart of Tahari's stronghold when she was among the living: a village named Resa that has now fallen into ruins. There's a lot of additional information and backstory that stems from previous scenarios (none of which I've played), so I'm just summarising the gist of the plot here.
My involvement as a player in the scenario unfortunately ended with the next scene. The members of the order assemble, and the GM asks for Knowledge (religion) checks. It turns out that one of the jewelled sages is a freaking lich, and, yep, detects as evil! In a group with multiple paladins, that brought the adventure to a sudden lurch. I will say some excellent role-playing eventuated all around, but the bottom line was that there was no way my character could ally himself with a lich--so I had to walk! I'm of two minds about the issue. On the one hand, I think it was short-sighted and exclusionary. On the other hand, it was a good moral dilemma and no one said life as a paladin would be easy. I do find it ironic now that there's no consideration of this problem whatsoever in the scenario, but there is extensive discussion of how PCs may react to another problematic member of the sages--Grandmaster Torch. Anyway, the rest of this review is based purely on reading the scenario.
The first encounter of the scenario is triggered when the group move toward the ruins of Resa. By bringing the sage jewels back in proximity to Tahari's source of strength, the group enable the evil necromancer's spirit to activate a deadly ward. In a very cool and well-described moment, a basalt monolith erupts from the rumbling earth, sandstorms begin assaulting the area, and masses of undead creatures arise to attack. In mechanical terms, the monolith gives off periodic waves of negative energy and needs to be disabled through skill checks, while the horde of undead use the troop rules from Bestiary 6 to good effect. A really nice touch is that the undead can air walk by climbing along the surfaces of buildings that collapsed millennia ago, but so can PCs who have strong connections to undead (like dhampirs or sorcerers with the undead bloodline). One of the jewelled sages directly assists the PCs in the combat, while the others are helping off-grid cinematically. It looks like a really good encounter to start things off, though it is also the last combat the PCs will face until the last part of the scenario.
The middle part of Salvation of the Sages is general exploration of Tahari's underground vault containing her research laboratories. There aren't any encounters here, but there are a couple of traps (with a decontamination trap that inflicts a maximized fireball on players particularly nasty and may insta-kill some PCs). There's a ton of background information on Tahari, the diseases she created, potential cures, and much more. It's definitely fitting that there's so much information to process in a mission that spotlights the Scarab Sages. Players who like to put the pieces together and assemble a narrative will be happy with what they have to work with. In a way, it's like a dungeon crawl but with important lore in every room instead of monsters. Some character concepts won't have much to do in this section of the scenario, but authors can't always cater to everyone and I think that's okay. The hack n' slashers certainly have their fair share of scenarios.
The big capstone to the scenario is probably the most complex encounter I've ever seen in PFS. The PCs take part in a ritual to draw the evil of Tahari out of the sage jewels and into a coherent form so it can be banished or destroyed. There's a *lot* going on here: multiple skill checks for the rituals; four different sets of enemies with complex stat blocks who arrive, contingent on events, at staggered times; multiple ongoing hazards and magical effects that have to be resolved each round; an elaborate presentation of a mindscape mechanism (PCs can journey into a sage jewel to try to expel Tahari); and handling the jewelled sages themselves, who can either help the PCs (if freed from Tahari's influence) or turn against the PCs (if possessed too directly by Tahari's evil). At this point in the game's (and organized play's) lifecycle, I have no qualms about complex encounters--though I think if any scenario should be gated behind 4 or 5 star GM access, it might be this one! GMs need to prep for this encounter thoroughly and probably have a round-by-round flow chart or something similar ready. I haven't played or run the encounter, so I can't evaluate how well it works in practice but it does sound pretty epic.*
I really appreciate how the scenario's epilogue accounts for a wide variety of possibilities in what happens during the ritual. Resolution is provided for if the ritual works or fails, of course, but there's also specific discussion of each of the sages and what happens to them if their own sage jewel was destroyed. As I often say in these reviews, too many scenarios end too abruptly, but that's not the case here.
My concluding thoughts are that, although it's certainly a bottom-heavy scenario and the issue with the lich is significant, I have to imagine Salvation of the Sages was a satisfying resolution to those players invested in the saga of the sage jewels. It makes me wish I had been playing since the beginning of PFS so it could have full impact on me.
* I always write my reviews before reading forum discussion on a scenario so that I reach my opinion independently. It sounds like there's a lot of concern that the final encounter is ridiculously hard. I can't offer any opinion on that, since I didn't play through or run it haven't really delved into the nitty-gritty of the mechanics. Still, I now think it might have been a stroke of luck that my paladin didn't go through with this mission!
Spectacular (!!), but on the heavy side (!!) for a GM
Perspective: Playing as Trapper Ranger/Living Monolith 11, with a party of Illusionist Wizard 11, Hellcat Monk 10, Spell Sunder specialized Barbarian 11, Swashbuckler 11, Archer Bard 11.
Scenario Experience: This is likely one of the hardest 10-11 subtiers I've ever played. It's on par with The Waking Rune in sheer power level (albeit without resorting to "one-shot the party" spells). The skill challenges were challenges for a highly skilled party. The backstory moments are amazing, very descriptive and enjoyable. This is what a faction retirement scenario should be like!
Pros:
+ Off the bat, the encounters start epic, and it continues all the way to the final encounter
+ The pretty nasty backstory of the bad guy foreshadows really sharp teeth. What dedication!
+ The backstory of the sages (!!), to each a glimpse into their own past struggles
+ The final encounter is spectacular with very interesting mechanics
+ So many skill checks (!!) with many pretty hard DC's. Don't bring a no-skill character to this scenario, as you will likely be bored to tears
Cons:
- There are soooooo many moving parts for a GM to keep track of, in the sense of modifiers to skills that the player is not supposed to know about. Our GM ran this for the second time, but still it was hard to keep track of everything
- The scenario runs very long. We played pretty quick and hurried, I think skipping only one location, in about 6.5 hours.
- Ideally, this scenario would have been provided with a form for the GM for him to keep track of all the modifiers. It really helps time-wise to have all the weird chronicle related stuff sorted out before the session, so the GM doesn't have to ask for it in the middle of an encounter, to avoid breaking immersion
Salvation is an epic scenario with combat, puzzles, and some roleplay.
THIS is why we roleplay! For stories like this! Matt Duval, thank you!
The only fault with this scenario is that it was too long. We ran out of time (at 5 hours). The only way you don’t run out of time is if the GM and players are prepared and aren't slow. Also, for some reason the scenario asks you to look through your chronicles for XYZ (how many choices have you made for boons?) so we spent 30 minutes doing that, and these stats were never used. We could have used that time.
Disclaimer: If players aren’t going to be smart about this one you’d better bring optimized PCs. There is the very real threat of death in this scenario. My group failed.
Spoiler:
Length: Extremely long (6 hours). You need fast players and GM and can’t look through boons at the start.
Experience: Player with 7 average PCs at subtier 7-8.
Sweet Spot: Subtier 7-8. The GM told me 10-11 was suicidal.
Entertainment: Awesome and epic and made my PC a hero. (10/10)
Story: Amazing arc concluding story. (10/10)
Roleplay: Not much, but it was good. (9/10)
Combat/Challenges: Themed and balanced well, unusual puzzles, challenging, but gave you a chance. (10/10)
Maps: Good and a custom map too. (9/10)
Boons: Boons were great, like challenging scenarios like this ought to be. (10/10)
Uniqueness: Epic scenarios on this scale are rare and I can’t get enough of them. Thank you! (10/10)
GM Preparation: I have no idea but I bet the last encounter takes time to do properly.
After months of preparation, four of us decided to tackle this scenario. Let’s say that our party was far from optimal. We had a level 9 ranger, a level 9 psychic (me), a level 10 occultist and a level 11 chained summoner without eidolon. You can imagine that playing on tier 10-11 with this setup was quite daunting. Before you ask: yes, two of us died at various stages throughout the scenario. I had to sacrifice myself during the first combat to save the ranger from being shredded to pieces, but thankfully I had a boon ready for this event. The second death, this time the ranger, I managed to undo due to a successful breath of life and caster level check. I guess that’s what boons are for.
Were those the only scary moments? Quite frankly: no. We were on the brink of death multiple times. A certain spell on the higher levels is extremely dangerous for a level 9 character and we both only barely made it. Luckily I had enough Scarab Sages boons to gain just enough of a bonus to survive the spell, while the ranger ended up using two boons to also manage to cling on to life. The other two player characters were either in a permanent state of daze or in single-digit hit points. And yet we still managed to pull through with great teamwork, summons and being great skill-monkeys.
So the combats are, evidently, really challenging, but the story is above excellent and the setting is outstanding. You really get a sense of creepiness, danger and mystery while playing this scenario. You get tossed into a dungeon that will challenge your wits, while staying true to the theme of the scenario. The NPCs present will have a major impact as well and, upon reading back the scenario, can really add to the atmosphere of the scenario as well.
It is, however, a scenario that is not easily prepared at all. There are tons of moving pieces the GM has to take into account and, without a doubt, this scenario will run long. Our GM had to downplay some of the atmospheric elements as we were running out of time even though our timeslot was a few hours longer than normal. If he hadn’t done so, the creepiness would have increased tenfold during the final combat, and the role-play with the sages would have been more immersive.
This scenario is supposed to be the epic conclusion of the storyline of entire faction, a faction some of us love to bits. It overwhelmingly exceeds at that. Yes, it’s scary and yes, you can easily bite the dust and die. Yes, some of the checks are really nasty and unforgiving and yes, this might be the most challenging scenario some of us have ever played, but it is also worth it. Upon completing this scenario, you’ll really feel like you’ve accomplished something and made an entire faction proud, as evidenced by the boon on the chronicle sheet.
I got the strong impression that (Emerald?) was claimed quite a while ago
Spoiler:
by a rather familiar face.
I really hope my scarab sage with a flawed Sage Jewel and the Sage Candidate faction reward can get in on this. He's played most of the high-level scarab sage scenarios, too.
I really enjoyed playing this scenario for four hours until the instant pile of bullshit at the end. What kind of encounter is that? The funny thing is that we didn’t even make it that far. We got obliterated by an effect that doesn’t even allow a save. Instantly permakilled a full health con heavy raging invulnerable rager.
Well now that I’ve played it, I’m going to buy it and read it thoroughly before I put in a review. I’m willing to give the author the benefit of the doubt that perhaps our GM might have missed something or got something wrong at the table. I doubt this is the case, as he is usually very meticulous in his prep and very knowledgeable. Right now it looks to me like a deliberately deceptive, no win scenario, that punishes the party for following the Pathfinder tenets especially COOPERATE!
The writer clearly dislikes any spell casting class, as the adventure is designed to cripple, humiliate, and kill spellcasters. The adventure should be pulled, edited, and retooled for high level play only.
Without Doubt, our entire table was in agreement. Over 100 years of collective gaming experience, players each with over a decade of game play. The entire table without one exception, including the GM, felt the adventure was filled with mechanics that guaranteed death. Here is some feedback and recommendations from a table of very experienced play testers with decades of play knowledge. We love this game, this adventure is not written in the spirit of this game. Its actually an embarrassing example of the failures of the editing team to manage an overly zealous module writer that is clearly hell bent on punishing characters, especially spell casters.
SPOILER
Module Mechanics/Plot Discussion Spoiler:
THE FINAL ENCOUNTER IS PURE B@#$ S*&@!
The area of effect damage effect at the end guarantees death. Not even our tank survived the encounter. If an effect is not capped, it kills.No saving throw effects are against core rules. The damage dealt to every individual in the group was greater than a disintegrate cast by a 16th level wizard. We were 7-8. Using average damage lone, 33d6 damage is over 110 hit points of damage. The average 8th level barbarian with 18 con would have 93 hit points. Add "no saving throw" That is guaranteed death. There should be a tiered "cap" on how many d6 can apply. There is presently no cap. 15d6 at 7-8 (~52 damage) or 21d6 at 10-11 (~73 damage) should be the damage cap.
The number of effects that "trigger" 3d6 damage include the consumption of alchemical (non-magical) effects such as anti-plague. This clearly makes no sense as consuming alchemical objects would no further "disturb the balance" as drinking a glass of water. The ONLY reason to put that in this section is to GUARANTEE a less than optimal group synergy to face a group of monsters buffed by 6 artifact level items. Further, the skill check requirement is extremely high. Players should be DISCOURAGED from participating in the ritual, not REQUIRED to participate. Characters are actually PUNISHED for helping. The sages all being helpless is absurd. Seriously? Dreamscapes should be pushed into the minds of one of the players, especially the one that survived the prior dreamscape, to help facilitate that "option", one that is NOT CLEAR, not in the slightest. There should be time between the option to jump into the dreamscape and the area effect blast. There should be events in the dreamscape that reduce the amount of damage the characters would be exposed to. There should be opportunities to "cure" failed skill checks that insta-kill the party. This encounter is putative.
The final encounter's ghost is mechanically broken. Final monster's regeneration effect, combined with being incorporeal, and automatically making every saving throws casting three spells a round. Right... it breaks core rules. The damage output on that one creature alone must reach 100hp of damage a round just to offset the healing effect of the monster at 7-8. Players have no way of knowing to destroy the gems, or even that the gems are triggering these effects. There should be a clearly visible "magical" effect flowing into the ghost from the gems so the players can elect to sever the link somehow.
THE PLAGUES BREAK CORE MECHANICS
Paladins are immune to disease. Period. End Stop. Have the NPC Paladin "fall from grace" then be subject to the plague. But to make it so that monks and paladins that are immune to disease are not immune to this disease again breaks core rules.
Targeting spell casters (elementals, effriti, etc) in the way that is targeted by increasing their weakest saving throw by 4, where the saving throw is so high to begin with, is impossible and again just unfair.
ALL SECONDARY AND TERTIARY PLAGUE EFFECTS ARE AGAINST CORE RULES. I don't care how much story you create, breaking core rules to the level where casting a spell forces the caster to gain 1d2 permanent negative levels is not a mechanic any game system can "balance" prepared to recognize as legitimate. Making that effect "incurable" is a guaranteed permanent death of the character. Not even a wish? Seriously? We know there is a way in the adventure to "cure" this "incurable" effect. There should be, at the least, a prestige amount that allows for Pathfinders that have "survived" the scenario to "cure" the effect in the event a player fails to secure this "cure" during the scenario. Anything else is ridiculous. I am stunned that Paizo authorized it. This should be retooled, PERIOD.
TRAPS V. TRICKS (This isn't 1st Edition D&D)
The acid effect in the pool room was also "not a trap" so no way to "perceive" it. This "not a trap but a trick" was corrected due to much player feedback. If a rogue can detect a magic trap, one without any visible effects, but can't detect acid pool concealed underneath water using the same skill, there is a problem with the encounter.
THE INITIAL OBELISK ENCOUNTER
The obelisk has boxed text that says we are to disable the device but when you reach the device , the skills required to disable the obelisk have nothing to do with disable device or use magic device. In fact its not a device at all. But the term "device" is used. Other words are required in the boxed text, specifically words like "The Obelisk must be dismantled, but this is no mere device as clearly significant mastery of the arcane and religion is essential to breaking it down" or something along that line. Choosing grandmaster torch is the instinct in this encounter with the text as written. But the module doesn't even give Grand Master Torch "bardic knowledge" its ridiculous. There is no need for "SAND" and "GRAPPLE CHECKS" to stop or impede movement. To create a swarm encounter with paralysis with an environmental effect that locks down movement is punitive. Combine this with the range limitations of swirling sandstorms and strong winds the effects are cumulatively putative, leading to many character deaths.
PLAYERS WILL BE DISCOURAGED FROM PLAYING PATHFINDER BECAUSE OF THIS ADVENTURE. At least one player said he would not play pathfinder ever again, he was so upset. If the developer's goal is encourage purchases, from a mere business judgment purpose, this adventure demands retooling. From a gaming planner's perspective, its not even written with a WARNING label when less difficult modules do come with a warning label. Its just not finished. This adventure could be better, much better, but it needs to be completely retooled.
I normally get paid to review materials, but I am giving this feedback to help Paizo figure out what the hell is going on. When this many players complain about an event, there is a problem. Of 21 players, only 7 managed to "survive" the final encounter. The remaining people either quit the adventure or failed altogether with a complete wipe.
This is NOT where Pathfinder should be heading. There are no bragging rights for module writers that "count the heads of characters permanently claimed in their scenario." If this is what Pathfinder wants, then they will lose their player base to satisfy the sadistic few eager to see suffering in a game.
Without Doubt, our entire table was in agreement. Over 100 years of collective gaming experience, players each with over a decade of game play. The entire table without one exception, including the GM, felt the adventure was filled with mechanics that guaranteed death. Here is some feedback and recommendations from a table of very experienced play testers with decades of play knowledge. We love this game, this adventure is not written in the spirit of this game. Its actually an embarrassing example of the failures of the editing team to manage an overly zealous module writer that is clearly hell bent on punishing characters, especially spell casters.
As someone who has run the scenario twice, your entire table is mistaken.
Now, that isn't to say that there are no concerns of merit with the adventure. I did warn the second table that there is a LOT of unfair mechanics in this one. And I did kill a PC each time.
But your aspersions on the character of the author are baseless and unhelpful noise, not constructive criticism.
The writer clearly does not understand the concept of scaling. As currently written, the adventure is mathematically impossible for a table of 7th level characters. Especially in an adventure as deceitfully written as this one.
That would probably explain my different results, as both of my tables were high tier.
Specific Points:
The obelisk has a Disable Device DC. It can be disabled by a rogue. Doing so just doesn't stop the fight.
The plagues use Horror Adventures rules. This is not a Core scenario. There will be differences.
The damage from the ritual should probably be capped, to prevent GMs from interpreting the damage in the worst way possible, which appears to have been done in your case. In neither case did I deal more than 10d6 of damage to the high tier table, and both deaths (not from ritual damage) were 7-8 tier characters playing up.
The disease is curable. Not by normal means, but by using the samples to concoct a cure.
Yes, the gems should be called out as connected to Tahari. As is discussed in the GM thread. The mindscape entrances are also called out.
After I played this scenario, I played an older scenario. Some may even recognize the name for the legendary lethal nature of it. This other scenario was much more 'unfair' but a prepared Pathfinder could handle it.
Spoiler:
King of the Storval Stairs.
Players going into this scenario *expecting* a cakewalk to be handed to them are going to be sorely disappointed at either tier.
Players going into this scenario expecting tough things to happen that may cause permanent character retirement (which people should be doing *anyways* at higher any tier) are much better prepared for it than folks who (in the immortal words of one of the players at a table that didn't fire last weekend) 'half-ass this'.
There is one clarification that should be made about the ritual preparation, because the language is a bit ambiguous and GMs who are bloodthirsty or hastily preparing this may attempt to power-dump damage onto the players.
I played this, I've prepared it to run it.
I had a random crew of Pathfinders sit down to my table at a convention and gave them a warning that this was a higher-tier adventure that could be difficult.
When they looked at their party composition they made the sensible call that they wouldn't be able to run *any* 7-11 with the crew they had at the table, much less this one.
My GM warned me it was the culmination of the Scarab Sages story arc for the most part. That's a faction whose original three-part introduction had Mythic involved. It is a reasonable expectation that something that makes Mythic entities worried enough to bring in Pathfinders to help is going to be something tough to deal with.
I have run and played this. The complaints in this thread are some of the most ridiculous hyperbole I have ever read and on these forums that is saying something.
Is this scenario hard? Yes. Is that a problem? No. Come prepared and you will do fine.
I have run and played this. The complaints in this thread are some of the most ridiculous hyperbole I have ever read and on these forums that is saying something.
Is this scenario hard? Yes. Is that a problem? No. Come prepared and you will do fine.
I don't half ass anything. You have no idea what you are talking about.
The storyteller who ran this particular event was very prepared and very experienced. For him to spend 6 hours preparing, just making sure he was correct on the mechanics, tells me that this adventure is poorly statted out.
It is clear to me that our experience was different from yours, maybe you softballed? Or maybe your GM softballed? That is far more likely than surviving the module as written.
There is no hyperbole, there are exact examples with detailed explanations and suggestions on how to correct the module, how it should have taken different levels and players into account.
Choosing not to read them, ignore them, or attempt to discredit what 90% of dozens of players have expressed in our region is wrong. It tells us you care more about your inflated opinion of the adventure and whatever perceived bragging rights you think may accompany it than the experiences of people that invest in the game along with the future of Pathfinder.
What is clear to me is that you don't know how to balance anything when it comes to gaming or you wouldn't discount the feedback of its players.
As someone who has run the scenario twice, your entire table is mistaken.
Now, that isn't to say that there are no concerns of merit with the adventure. I did warn the second table that there is a LOT of unfair mechanics in this one. And I did kill a PC each time.
But your aspersions on the character of the author are baseless and unhelpful noise, not constructive criticism.
Our table was not mistaken, we were wiped. No save 33d6 at tier 7-8.
WIPE.
In one breath you say I am mistaken, presumably as you breath in and while you breathe out, you say that you did kill a PC each time. the two statements do not reconcile with each other.
If 100% of the time you kill characters, you are doing it wrong and the module has a problem.
I don't softball when I run, certainly not at tier 7-11. The group I ran for had one permanent character death, they thoroughly enjoyed themselves.
It sounds like you were not prepared for higher level play.
Again, a permanent character death the one time you ran it.
That's not how the game is built. I seriously doubt you ran it as written. Certainly not tier 7-8. We were VERY prepared, I have over a dozen characters, half of which have reached retirement. I am very familiar with the game. And the players at my table are extremely well prepared and did well throughout the adventure given the multiple failed mechanics.
It doesn't matter how well prepared you are 33d6 unnamed damage at 7-8 tier with no saving throw is not survivable. Its not about us "being not prepared". Thats absurd.
You only take that damage if you do appallingly badly at the preparation ritual, which is in two stages. It sounds like your GM ran it wrongly and/or that your group was filled with people lacking any skills at all.
If you want to talk experience then I have 320+ games ran, 9 seeker character including one core and over 20 other active character options.
Just because your group did poorly does not mean it is a terrible scenario or that the author was malicious. It means your group did badly.
Welcome to the forums, Lord Neden! Glad to see someone who has been with the Pathfinder Society since its inception finally joining the online community. ^_^
Andrew, the writer was most certainly malicious in his intent. -2 for being good aligned. -2 for being an elemental. -2 for being a caster. How was that not malicious? And time is a factor. A Save that targets an arcane pc's weakest SAVE. Skill checks to make with 4 or 5 negative levels. Show me the not malicious intent toward mage/sorcerer/bards.
I've Played "King of the Storval Stairs" and had no problem. Same with "Waking Rune" on hard mode. Neither of those mods punished a player for being good aligned or arcane.
Our table was not mistaken, we were wiped. No save 33d6 at tier 7-8.
WIPE.
Your GM did not have to hit you with 33d6 at once. They made a choice based on what they read, unless you are saying there were eleven failures/activations on the first set of rolls.
Lord Neden wrote:
In one breath you say I am mistaken, presumably as you breath in and while you breathe out, you say that you did kill a PC each time. the two statements do not reconcile with each other.
If 100% of the time you kill characters, you are doing it wrong and the module has a problem.
2 characters out of 13. And none of them from ritual damage. Look at the high tier and consider what might kill a 7-8 character playing up.
I have seen several scenarios where characters were 'punished' for being 'good' (via Smite Good, Protection from Good, etc) as well as scenarios where characters are specifically and directly told that utilizing the powers of the arcane at certain points or certain locations could be very bad for the party, not just the caster.
Reading through the gm section, several tables were hit with huge amounts of unsaveable untyped damage all at once. Our gm ran the adventure as written. Quit drinking the Paizo punch.
This disease was deliberately and maliciously designed to kill arcane casters.
An evil spellcaster with spells prepared to thwart his enemies from a good aligned organization is tactical, not punishing.
Hey folks, let's try scaling back some of the aggressive tones and personal shots that I'm seeing here. Similarly, while it's OK to post concerns or criticism about the scenario (that's how we can improve on future offerings), please don't make attacks directed against the author or the author's perceived knowledge.
I already told you that Disable Device was usable, it just doesn't end the encounter.
I am fully aware that you are all emotional about this adventure. I've been there on other ones.
That is why I am doing my best to stick to statements of fact. Attacking the author, the developers, or anyone else is not going to help your cause.
Hey ScrollMasterRob, I'd like to thank you and your gaming group for advertising this module, which I've promptly purchased. I understand that it might not have been fitting to your play style, but it's going to perfect for us, as it reminds us of that summer of 1979 when the Tomb of Horrors and Gary's basement was all that kept us sane through the episodes of recurring memories of the Tet Offensive.
I gotta say, this has definitely gone on my purchase list pretty much exclusively due to the back and forth here in this thread. The desire for a challenging scenario and the itch to know exactly how much the haters are exaggerating is just too much to resist buying it.
Starfinder Society Developer
