I noticed the new spring attack feats lately, and the possibilities they open up intrigue me. Aside from the obvious ability to make characters more mobile in combat, I'm thinking that these feats could be very useful for characters and creatures with a single natural attack. Characters who wildshape into a wolf form and then use that feat chain to trip two or three different enemies could suddenly be viable.
I don't have the feats in front of me to confirm this though, for all I know they require that you use an attack with itteratives.
It doesn't say you have to attack with iterative attacks. It looks like it'd work, but it'd be an incredibly feat-intensive build... but fun!
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Sounds like a companion that will never see PFS play, to me.I hope it does. It's honestly not OP considering it only gets one attack and doesn't get Blood Drain til 7th. I could absolutely see it getting into PFS.Drain? O_O
Drain means at least 100gp out of the victim's pocket i.e. restoration.
Blood Drain is not ability drain despite the name. It deals damage.
I hope I am not working on the 20th.
I'm disappointed in the Blighted Defiler kineticist archetype in that it requires an Evil alignment. Yet another interesting kineticist archetype that alters the primary stat that is forced into evil territory and therefore pushes it into NPC territory for a lot of games.
I absolutely love that we finally have a Large-sized bear animal companion though! That was a fantasy staple that we've been missing for way too long.
I noticed the new spring attack feats lately, and the possibilities they open up intrigue me. Aside from the obvious ability to make characters more mobile in combat, I'm thinking that these feats could be very useful for characters and creatures with a single natural attack. Characters who wildshape into a wolf form and then use that feat chain to trip two or three different enemies could suddenly be viable.
I don't have the feats in front of me to confirm this though, for all I know they require that you use an attack with itteratives.
Spring Attack is already a full round action that allows you to make a single attack and break up your move so that you can move before and after attacking. The new feats just allow you to make additional attacks as part of this action, so they would actually work just fine for non-iterative natural attacks.
The only restriction of any consequence is that you cannot attack any single target more than once during the spring attack sequence.
Ah. Didn't know that was the prefered, different way to deal with that. I'll keep that in mind if it ever happens again.
EDIT: I was going to ask if there was a link on the site for the e-mail but found it under the Community Guidelines link under the preview/cancel/submit buttons.
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It doesn't say you have to attack with iterative attacks. It looks like it'd work, but it'd be an incredibly feat-intensive build... but fun!I noticed the new spring attack feats lately, and the possibilities they open up intrigue me. Aside from the obvious ability to make characters more mobile in combat, I'm thinking that these feats could be very useful for characters and creatures with a single natural attack. Characters who wildshape into a wolf form and then use that feat chain to trip two or three different enemies could suddenly be viable.
I don't have the feats in front of me to confirm this though, for all I know they require that you use an attack with itteratives.
Yay! Honestly though, this feat chain might be one of the best things to come out of the book. It might require a lot of feats, but I know a lot of people who want to play 'mobile' melee characters. I finally have something I can point them to other than a few archetypes.
I might be adding the spring attack feat chain on my list of 'automatically upgrading feats' (like vital strike) to make it easier to get.
Can the Shifters edge feat only be used with shifters?
It requires the Shifter's Claws class feature I believe, so you'll need at least a 1 level dip I think. I don't remember if it scales with Shifter level or general Class level.
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Can the Shifters edge feat only be used with shifters?
The most problematical prerequisite is "shifter claws class feature". So far, that prerequisite can be met by a level in either the actual Shifter class or in a certain Monk archetype (Menhir Guardian).
I'm disappointed in the Blighted Defiler kineticist archetype in that it requires an Evil alignment. Yet another interesting kineticist archetype that alters the primary stat that is forced into evil territory and therefore pushes it into NPC territory for a lot of games.
I absolutely love that we finally have a Large-sized bear animal companion though! That was a fantasy staple that we've been missing for way too long.
Perhaps you did not read the fine print? "...must be evil in order to use steal power." Otherwise, they can be any alignment.
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Nope.
Edgelords need not apply.
Hmmmmm, Menhir Guardian has shifter's claws....
That's a pretty powerful one level dip for Druids and Spheres Shifters. They'll get both Monk AC and access to Shifter's Edge. Of course, the limitation of being Dex Based is pretty nasty if you don't want to stick to smaller sized forms.
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Menhir Guardian also has 'wild flurry', which 'modifies furry of blows', which I find the most hilarious typo ever.
So, not even a clause for "doing bad things for the greater good"? No "using this ability shifts your alignment towards Evil"? Just a sign that says "you must be this Evil to ride"?Perhaps you did not read the fine print? "...must be evil in order to use steal power." Otherwise, they can be any alignment.I'm disappointed in the Blighted Defiler kineticist archetype in that it requires an Evil alignment. Yet another interesting kineticist archetype that alters the primary stat that is forced into evil territory and therefore pushes it into NPC territory for a lot of games.
I absolutely love that we finally have a Large-sized bear animal companion though! That was a fantasy staple that we've been missing for way too long.
Actually, I did see that, but what I did not see was that it did not replace Gather Power, it simply alters Gather power. I was looking at that ability all wrong. This actually makes me a little happier with the archetype now since I was thinking they would be shoe-horned into being required to use Steal Power to reduce Burn costs, but it simply enhances Gather Power. Thank you, Fourshadow, for making me do a more thorough look at that archetype. The main issue though, is if you don't use Steal Power, then it appears you are unable to benefit from the other big things baked into the archetype such as extra damage and ability boosts.
But, yes, shaventalz, that ability is definitely a 'you must be evil to use this ability'. I get that idea and you can still do bad things for the greater good, you just have to be a bad person to consider doing such a thing for the greater good. And maybe that greater good is preserving you're only life by battling against the BBEG? lol
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So, not even a clause for "doing bad things for the greater good"? No "using this ability shifts your alignment towards Evil"? Just a sign that says "you must be this Evil to ride"?Perhaps you did not read the fine print? "...must be evil in order to use steal power." Otherwise, they can be any alignment.I'm disappointed in the Blighted Defiler kineticist archetype in that it requires an Evil alignment. Yet another interesting kineticist archetype that alters the primary stat that is forced into evil territory and therefore pushes it into NPC territory for a lot of games.
I absolutely love that we finally have a Large-sized bear animal companion though! That was a fantasy staple that we've been missing for way too long.
Actually, I did see that, but what I did not see was that it did not replace Gather Power, it simply alters Gather power. I was looking at that ability all wrong. This actually makes me a little happier with the archetype now since I was thinking they would be shoe-horned into being required to use Steal Power to reduce Burn costs, but it simply enhances Gather Power. Thank you, Fourshadow, for making me do a more thorough look at that archetype. The main issue though, is if you don't use Steal Power, then it appears you are unable to benefit from the other big things baked into the archetype such as extra damage and ability boosts.
But, yes, shaventalz, that ability is definitely a 'you must be evil to use this ability'. I get that idea and you can still do bad things for the greater good, you just have to be a bad person to consider doing such a thing for the greater good. And maybe that greater good is preserving you're only life by battling against the BBEG? lol
You can play one that's non-evil and walking the edge with a lot of mechanical pull; basically any time you are desperate enough and steal power, you have crossed the edge and are now evil. And you get some good stuff when you do. So it's this constant temptation to get the extra power when the chips are down, but it drives you to evil if you give in. You might be able to climb back out to neutral...this time...but maybe each time it gets harder and harder, as you are tortured by your past decisions.
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Alternatively, worshippers of Lamashtu will enjoy being able to sacrifice dozens of baby animals while on the go.
Do anyone know if it was intended that levels in the Sylvan Trikster (page 77) archetype do not count as witch level for hexes? It's not written in the description.
I do like that we have large bears, giant moles, and prehistoric horses.
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You can play one that's non-evil and walking the edge with a lot of mechanical pull; basically any time you are desperate enough and steal power, you have crossed the edge and are now evil. And you get some good stuff when you do. So it's this constant temptation to get the extra power when the chips are down, but it drives you to evil if you give in. You might be able to climb back out to neutral...this time...but maybe each time it gets harder and harder, as you are tortured by your past decisions.Actually, I did see that, but what I did not see was that it did not replace Gather Power, it simply alters Gather power. I was looking at that ability all wrong. This actually makes me a little happier with the archetype now since I was thinking they would be shoe-horned into being required to use Steal Power to reduce Burn costs, but it simply enhances Gather Power. Thank you, Fourshadow, for making me do a more thorough look at that archetype. The main issue though, is if you don't use Steal Power, then it appears you are unable to benefit from the other big things baked into the archetype such as extra damage and ability boosts.
But, yes, shaventalz, that ability is definitely a 'you must be evil to use this ability'. I get that idea and you can still do bad things for the greater good, you just have to be a bad person to consider doing such a thing for the greater good. And maybe that greater good is preserving you're only life by battling against the BBEG? lol
But if alignment is a prerequisite for even activating the ability, you can't really just reach for the EvilDeathBeam. It's an effect, not the cause. You'd have to become Evil first, and as far as I can tell that's usually determined by actions in Pathfinder. You'd have to spend a turn or two charging up your Evil gauge by kicking puppies or something before the ability unlocks.
If using the ability was Evil, I'd agree with you. As it is, it sounds like it only works for...
Using the ability isn't just a single little evil act, it makes you evil in one go. Language can be ambiguous and doubly so with something philosophical or ontological like alignment, so I do totally see your reading of the ability as well, but in this case, the act in itself reflexively covers you (at least imo): being willing to and preparing to perform such an evil action is sufficient cause for your character to be evil. The other interpretation that doesn't match mine has legitimate merit but takes us far beyond rules adjudication and into things like ontology and concept theory, a la is the concept of evil definitional, a prototype, a theory, and so on (which I adore but should go in a different thread).
You can play one that's non-evil and walking the edge with a lot of mechanical pull; basically any time you are desperate enough and steal power, you have crossed the edge and are now evil. And you get some good stuff when you do. So it's this constant temptation to get the extra power when the chips are down, but it drives you to evil if you give in. You might be able to climb back out to neutral...this time...but maybe each time it gets harder and harder, as you are tortured by your past decisions.So, not even a clause for "doing bad things for the greater good"? No "using this ability shifts your alignment towards Evil"? Just a sign that says "you must be this Evil to ride"?Perhaps you did not read the fine print? "...must be evil in order to use steal power." Otherwise, they can be any alignment.I'm disappointed in the Blighted Defiler kineticist archetype in that it requires an Evil alignment. Yet another interesting kineticist archetype that alters the primary stat that is forced into evil territory and therefore pushes it into NPC territory for a lot of games.
I absolutely love that we finally have a Large-sized bear animal companion though! That was a fantasy staple that we've been missing for way too long.
Actually, I did see that, but what I did not see was that it did not replace Gather Power, it simply alters Gather power. I was looking at that ability all wrong. This actually makes me a little happier with the archetype now since I was thinking they would be shoe-horned into being required to use Steal Power to reduce Burn costs, but it simply enhances Gather Power. Thank you, Fourshadow, for making me do a more thorough look at that archetype. The main issue though, is if you don't use Steal Power, then it appears you are unable to benefit from the other big things baked into the archetype such as extra damage and ability boosts.
But, yes, shaventalz, that ability is definitely a 'you must be evil to use this ability'. I get that idea and you can still do bad things for the greater good, you just have to be a bad person to consider doing such a thing for the greater good. And maybe that greater good is preserving you're only life by battling against the BBEG? lol
I think I might have been misread the archetype, Mark. Maybe you can let me know if this is the accurate understanding now. Blighted Defiler can still use Gather Power as normal, but if they use Steal Power then they can get additional bonuses on top of the normal Gather Power.
Elemental Might still provides the normal bonuses to attack/damage from Burn accumulation and Elemental Overflow, but you lose the ability score bonuses and change to ignore critical hits and sneak attacks. On top of that, if you choose to use Steal Power then you gain an additional bonuses to your effective Burn points for Elemental Overflow. So instead of taking Burn and therefore affecting your HP, you could simply Steal Power to empower yourself that way.
And lastly, Stolen Strength is where you gain get your ability score boosts and eventually the ability to grow in size, but that is only empowered by using Steal Power?
I think I might have been misread the archetype, Mark. Maybe you can let me know if this is the accurate understanding now. Blighted Defiler can still use Gather Power as normal, but if they use Steal Power then they can get additional bonuses on top of the normal Gather Power.
Elemental Might still provides the normal bonuses to attack/damage from Burn accumulation and Elemental Overflow, but you lose the ability score bonuses and change to ignore critical hits and sneak attacks. On top of that, if you choose to use Steal Power then you gain an additional bonuses to your effective Burn points for Elemental Overflow. So instead of taking Burn and therefore affecting your HP, you could simply Steal Power to empower yourself that way.
And lastly, Stolen Strength is where you gain get your ability score boosts and eventually the ability to grow in size, but that is only empowered by using Steal Power?
I believe that's right, based on my reading of what you wrote.
I believe that's right, based on my reading of what you wrote.I think I might have been misread the archetype, Mark. Maybe you can let me know if this is the accurate understanding now. Blighted Defiler can still use Gather Power as normal, but if they use Steal Power then they can get additional bonuses on top of the normal Gather Power.
Elemental Might still provides the normal bonuses to attack/damage from Burn accumulation and Elemental Overflow, but you lose the ability score bonuses and change to ignore critical hits and sneak attacks. On top of that, if you choose to use Steal Power then you gain an additional bonuses to your effective Burn points for Elemental Overflow. So instead of taking Burn and therefore affecting your HP, you could simply Steal Power to empower yourself that way.
And lastly, Stolen Strength is where you gain get your ability score boosts and eventually the ability to grow in size, but that is only empowered by using Steal Power?
Thanks for looking that over, Mark! My incorrect understanding of the archetype made it seem that a non-evil blighter was severely hamstringing themselves by not using Steal Power. And while they definitely are weaker than a blighter that uses Steal Power and a baseline kineticist, it is not so far off that they feel detrimentally unbalanced.
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Sounds like a companion that will never see PFS play, to me.I hope it does. It's honestly not OP considering it only gets one attack and doesn't get Blood Drain til 7th. I could absolutely see it getting into PFS.Drain? O_O
Drain means at least 100gp out of the victim's pocket i.e. restoration.
Blood Drain is a monster ability that does CON Damage.
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I have to say, I REALLY like this book. Some of the negative comments had me concerned that this one might be a PDF only, but after a quick review of the PDF, I definitely want the book too. I can see getting a lot of use out of it.
Lots of good stuff in here, and very good artwork throughout. I really like the Seasonal Witch (I think that's the name).
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Lots of good stuff in here, and very good artwork throughout. I really like the Seasonal Witch (I think that's the name).
One could ahem... say that hmmmm hmm she's seasoned to hmm perfection! [/goldblumm mode]
Hey... my comment about what I liked about the book and my thoughts about the shifter got deleted ?_?
Correct.....if you mention shifter...you "may" get deleted (some have creeped through, but the majority have not)....
On this thread there is a ban on speaking about the Shifter class....we are discussing it on the Advice column....try posting your observations there.
As Sara said upthread, Shifter Discussions are forbidden in this thread until the 20th. Too many people were arguing about it, and it exploded over the weekend.
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In other words, don't talk about the (shape-changed?) elephant in the room :)
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In other words, don't talk about the (shape-changed?) elephant in the room :)
ROFLMAO....till then I don't actually have much to say....
I will wait till the gag order is over ;)
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The second most surprising thing (after a bunch of brawler archetypes in a wilderness book) is that they included two Psychic disciplines and they're both really good.
I don't know that durable, self buffing, melee Psychic with good senses is a very optimal way to play the class, but the Ferocity discipline gives you all the tools it reasonably could to try it. It's pretty much designed to go with the (pretty bad) Mutation Mind archetype and create a melee Psychic who doesn't worry about spell DCs and just buffs and fights. It doesn't work too well until level 13, but I admire the thought.
Symbiosis is amazing in both concept and execution, a psychic druid with great plant and animal control. You're Granny Weatherwax, looking through animals and engaging in literal headology with your normal psychic spells. I love that Symbiosis is the one discipline I can think of that gives you A LOT of bonus spells that aren't already on the class spell list.
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So I'm reading over the book, and I just have to wonder if someone who worked on Unchained stole someone's else's lunch or something, because it's been a long while since an Unchained Monk-friendly archetype has come out, the last one (of three total) being the Disciple of Wholeness in Healer's Handbook back in January.
Also, I'm pondering how easy it would be to swap the Water Dancer's element around. Doesn't look like it would be too hard honestly.
I'm still wondering how much of Chapter 4 and 5 I'll use. I mean Horror Adventures, some of that I do use...but still wondering how much I'll use of that section.
Any thoughts?
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I'm still wondering how much of Chapter 4 and 5 I'll use. I mean Horror Adventures, some of that I do use...but still wondering how much I'll use of that section.
Any thoughts?
Well, chapter 5 is the exclusive domain of someone who has an animal companion or familiar they actually care about. I imagine it's probably useful for those folks, but the most familiar stuff I've dealt with personally was a tumor familiar once.
Chapter 4 seems more frequently usable. First World and Green Faith stuff is focused on the First World and the Green Faith, so that's of questionable use, and then there's that weird section of just describing how spells can be used in the wild. Discovery and Exploration seems like something a Kingmaker group would be dealing with, where searching and "clearing" a territory is the end goal, but for a lot of games the end goal is on the other side of the territory and the most you're going to care about it is if something happens to cross your path. Foraging and Salvaging and Herbalism I could see getting some use as a sort of expanded Survival check, though at the same time that's another book you would have to open up and flip through. Hazards and Poisons are definitely things I could see getting used since they would factor into the normal adventuring day, along with Weather and Traps to a lesser degree (again, too much book flipping to be used all the time). And honestly the trophy rules are better implemented than the ones in Monster Hunter's Handbook.
I just noticed they made the brachiation wild talent weaker:(
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Okay, this is getting silly, someone has to start doing a search on any of the numerous SRD websites before naming things. This is the third unique Bottled Sunlight item.
The Arrow Champion is good in a goofy way. I especially like that they gave you three abilities so you can shoot a feinting arrow at someone, then quick swap to a melee weapon and go stab them next round to get your double precise damage back. Sure, you could just do two full attacks, but that would be boring, effective, and too conventional.
Spent much of the evening browsing the PDF, and I gotta say, I'm loving this book! However, reading PDFs tend to give me a headache after a while. I'll wait until my hardcover arrives before I do a deep-delve, where I can write a proper review. Off the top of my head, some highlights that stuck out are...
The archetypes are great. Some are exotic, others are pretty practical variants for those classes operating in a wilderness setting. The hunter, investigator and ranger have some real cool stuff.
Since I'm planning on creating a witch, I took a close look at those options, and am happy. Again, the archetypes are great. However, some of them seemed confusing at first glance in how they are written, but after re-reading, I think I have them down. Example- I'm assuming the season witch loses their familiar to get other features. Nothing specifically says the familiar is replaced. Also, depending on the season you chose, you get to pick a bonus hex out of two options, but below, it says that feature "alters the hex gain at 1st level", which sounds like it replaces the 1st level hex. But if that was the case, it's not really a bonus hex... Usually it would say you must pick specific hexes at that level. Anyhow, I decided to treat it as a bonus hex in addition to the one normally granted a 1st level. Since you're losing your familiar, a bonus hex seems appropriate.
The rest of the book has impressed me so far as well. Too much to absorb in one night though. So far, I am happy.