The Whip as a Sacred Weapon

I'm a little confused about how the Warpriest's Sacred Weapon ability interacts with the special abilities of a specific weapon. For example, the whip. I understand that the Sacred Weapon abilities damage would overwrite the whip's regular damage, but the description for the whip says:

A whip deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher

Does this mean that a Warpriest of, say, Calistria, wielding his/her goddess' favored weapon, would deal 0 damage on each attack against an armored opponent? Or is Sacred Weapon presumed to replace that aspect of the whip's damage as well? Presumably the whip would still have its 15-foot reach and ability to hit any target within its range, right?

Sacred Weapon changes the damage die rolled but does not affect the weapon's other properties.

Unless you take Whip Mastery, you can't deal lethal damage with it or hurt armored creatures, Sacred Weapon or no. You also provoke when attacking with it without Whip Mastery, so if you're planning to use the whip regularly you really need that feat.

Seems like an easier solution would be to use a Scorpion Whip instead, though obviously Whip Mastery would still be useful to avoid the AoO.

I was mostly just curious; I think a Calistrian Warpriest would be kind of weird...giant platemail painted like a bee, throwing a whip around...

Scorpion Whip doesn't have reach though.

And,

Calistrian Warpriest dual-wielding whip + scorpion whip!

Seems like an easier solution would be to use a Scorpion Whip instead, though obviously Whip Mastery would still be useful to avoid the AoO.

I was mostly just curious; I think a Calistrian Warpriest would be kind of weird...giant platemail painted like a bee, throwing a whip around...

Errm, why painted like a bee? That's just silly.

I think the Calistrian Warpriest works rather well. You already start with whip proficiency and Weapon Focus: Whip. A human warpriest could then add Weapon Finesse and Slashing Grace at level 1. Being a Dex-based character, you'd probably want to go a little lighter on the armour as well.

Whip Mastery is an easy grab at Level 3, and depending on your GM, you could probably just use a scorpion whip til then.

I'd imagine that "Scorpion Whip" would have to be your Sacred Weapon, and not just the regular "Whip", and such a Warpriest would have to wait until level 3 to gain Exotic Weapon Proficiency, since it requires a BAB of +1 to take.

Though a Half-elf could qualify for it at 1st level.

Or, just go with Whip Mastery and a regular Whip, like the others have said.

If you are proficient in a whip, you are proficient in a scorpion whip.

Ah, indeed.

If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip

It would still have to be its own selection for Sacred Weapon, though.

spectrevk wrote:

Seems like an easier solution would be to use a Scorpion Whip instead, though obviously Whip Mastery would still be useful to avoid the AoO.

I was mostly just curious; I think a Calistrian Warpriest would be kind of weird...giant platemail painted like a bee, throwing a whip around...

Errm, why painted like a bee? That's just silly.

I think the Calistrian Warpriest works rather well. You already start with whip proficiency and Weapon Focus: Whip. A human warpriest could then add Weapon Finesse and Slashing Grace at level 1. Being a Dex-based character, you'd probably want to go a little lighter on the armour as well.

Whip Mastery is an easy grab at Level 3, and depending on your GM, you could probably just use a scorpion whip til then.

Calistria's sacred animal is the bee, and her sacred colors are yellow and black. Hence the platemail painted like a bee.

Ah, indeed.

Scorpion Whip wrote:

If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip

It would still have to be its own selection for Sacred Weapon, though.

Only when using it as a scorpion whip.

spectrevk wrote:

Seems like an easier solution would be to use a Scorpion Whip instead, though obviously Whip Mastery would still be useful to avoid the AoO.

I was mostly just curious; I think a Calistrian Warpriest would be kind of weird...giant platemail painted like a bee, throwing a whip around...

Errm, why painted like a bee? That's just silly.

Calistrian clergy wear black and yellow a lot.

I think the Calistrian Warpriest works rather well. You already start with whip proficiency and Weapon Focus: Whip. A human warpriest could then add Weapon Finesse and Slashing Grace at level 1. Being a Dex-based character, you'd probably want to go a little lighter on the armour as well.

Whip Mastery is an easy grab at Level 3, and depending on your GM, you could probably just use a scorpion whip til then.

I suppose the ultimate permutation of this would be a DEX 20 Elf Calistrian Warpriest in studded leather armor with a whip and stiletto heels. The real challenge would be enduring the snickers and outright laughter at the gaming table, though ;)

I direct you here

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Repentia-Squad

Omg! I just realized Calistria has to be totally inspired by the brothel in FF7!

I suppose the ultimate permutation of this would be a DEX 20 Elf Calistrian Warpriest in studded leather armor with a whip and stiletto heels. The real challenge would be enduring the snickers and outright laughter at the gaming table, though ;)

Not for long. Calistrians have a mile-wide nasty streak against those they feel have slighted them.

I thought her sacred animal was the wasp?

Wasp, bee, potato, potahtoe.

No, it is specifically mentioned to be the wasp as the wasp, unlike the bee, does not die when it stings and it is not a "domesticated" animal like the bee. Much of the difference is symbolic, but this is a religion - symbols matter :) .

Wasp, bee, potato, potahtoe.

d00d... bees are bros, wasps are congealed evil. Everyone knows that. Also, you spelled potato wrong. Reference

Now, what happens when the Sacred Weapon is something like a Net, has yet to be answered.

Now, what happens when the Sacred Weapon is something like a Net, has yet to be answered.

Poisoned sand tube? Lasso? Snag net? Flask thrower? Launching crossbow?

Let not forget Ray.

Whoa. Can Ray of Frost deal 1d6 cold?
You need an arcane level, but still. Worth it.

You can grab it with the Two world magic trait, no need to multiclass.

Why you'd do that s beyond me though.

Also, weapon focus grapple.

If you wanted Sacred Weapon (Ray), for the purpose of having a really neat cantrip, you may as well build a Kineticist instead.

But I understand the principle of wanting such a question answered.

Kineticist/Warpriest Multiclass?

OH GOD... after the elven dominatrix thing, my mind wandered to the notion of a Goblin warpriest of calistria... so much dex, but damn!

Still, the calistrian warpriest is a good build; though there is the whole whip/scorpion whip confusion.

Well, the official Scorpion Whip is the one in Adventurer's Armory now, not the drek in Ultimate Equipment, and UE will be corrected in future printings.

Well, the official Scorpion Whip is the one in Adventurer's Armory now, not the drek in Ultimate Equipment, and UE will be corrected in future printings.

For PFS only.

Whoa. Can Ray of Frost deal 1d6 cold?

You need an arcane level, but still. Worth it.

Two worlds trait allows divine to snag an arcane cantrip.

Let not forget Ray.

Most rays don't work because "This increase in damage does not affect any other aspect of the weapon, and doesn’t apply to alchemical items, bombs, or other weapons that only deal energy damage." So can't only do energy, which means no battle poi and most rays. You can sneak in Ray of Frost with an Alchemical Reagent though.

Imbicatus wrote:

Well, the official Scorpion Whip is the one in Adventurer's Armory now, not the drek in Ultimate Equipment, and UE will be corrected in future printings.

For PFS only.

Future printings of the Ultimate Equipment will fix the problem.

That tells me it's a Rules change, not just a PFS change.

How would you do that?

graystone wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

Well, the official Scorpion Whip is the one in Adventurer's Armory now, not the drek in Ultimate Equipment, and UE will be corrected in future printings.

For PFS only.

Michael Brock wrote:

Future printings of the Ultimate Equipment will fix the problem.

That tells me it's a Rules change, not just a PFS change.

That may be true if and when it does get changed. Note he DIDN'T say PATHFINDER will use the scorpion whip found in the Adventurer's Armory, just "PFS will use the scorpion whip found in the Adventurer's Armory".

Right now there is NO FAQ/errata that allows this change that I know of. That would make it "For PFS only."

How would you do that?

This to me? And is it about ray of frost? Liquid Ice added effect when used as material component. "The spell creates an icicle of frozen water vapor that strikes the target and deals 1d3 points of piercing damage and 1 point of cold damage." To make this viable without a constant gp payout, take False Focus.

Now, what happens when the Sacred Weapon is something like a Net, has yet to be answered.

Are there any deities in Golarion who have the Net as a favored weapon?

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Now, what happens when the Sacred Weapon is something like a Net, has yet to be answered.

Are there any deities in Golarion who have the Net as a favored weapon?

A few. Chadali, Eaqueo, Folca, Mahathallah, Mazmezz, Rogorolos.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Now, what happens when the Sacred Weapon is something like a Net, has yet to be answered.

Are there any deities in Golarion who have the Net as a favored weapon?

Just remember that Sacred Weapons works on favored weapons AND any you have the Weapon Focus for. Any weapon can be a Sacred weapon for any Warpriest. (assuming it doesn't deal just energy damage)

Admonishing Ray does nonlethal damage.

Should work.

One ray does 4d6 already, though.

I suppose it would.

Maybe combine with the Channel Ray feat, and Variant Channeling.

Ms. Pleiades wrote:

Wasp, bee, potato, potahtoe.

d00d... bees are bros, wasps are congealed evil. Everyone knows that. Also, you spelled potato wrong. Reference

No, the 'other' spelling is potatoe. Reference: 1992: Gaffe with an 'e' at the end

/cevah

*ARISE!*

So what would be required (PFS legal, mind), to get a whip (or Scorpion Whip) as a *sacred weapon* to actually do *real damage* to anyone at the *earliest* level for a tengu scandalmonger of Calistria *without* a level-dip?

well, Deadly is a +1 ability if you want to do it with a normal whip, otherwise you're looking at needing proficiency in both whip & scorpion whip so you can use a scorpion whip as a normal whip that does lethal damage

I thought using a scorpion whip "as a whip" made it use the stats of a normal whip... Which is to say, all the stats, to include the inability to deal lethal damage

This whip has a series of razor-sharp blades inset along its tip. It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with both the scorpion whip and whip, you can use a scorpion whip in either the normal way (as a light performance weapon) or as a whip. When you use a scorpion whip as a whip, it is equivalent to a whip, but deals lethal damage and can harm creatures regardless of their armor bonus.

To actually answer Wei Ji's question, you need to take Exotic Weapon Proficience (Scorpion Whip), which requires a +1 BAB, so won't be available until 3rd level, and then Weapon Focus (Scorpion Whip) to treat is as a sacred weapon, which you could also do at 3ed, because the War Priest gets a bonus combat feat.

If there's a way to get the weapon proficiency at first, then you could use the free Weapon Focus to do it (I'm assuming that still requires proficiency, because it doesn't say you don't) - Heirloom Weapon is the obvious answer to that one

*ARISE!*

So what would be required (PFS legal, mind), to get a whip (or Scorpion Whip) as a *sacred weapon* to actually do *real damage* to anyone at the *earliest* level for a tengu scandalmonger of Calistria *without* a level-dip?

3rd level when you pick up Whip Mastery. Now if you where a 1/2 orc warpriest of Selket you'd be good to go at 1st without using any feats...

Andy Brown: I don't think he'd need Weapon Focus (Scorpion Whip) as the scorpion whip "acts precisely like a whip in all ways except that it deals lethal damage and can harm creatures regardless of their armor bonus [from FAQ] and that should mean weapon focus/sacred weapon whip works too. This assumes Heirloom Weapon [scorpion whip] for proficiency. He is, of course, stuck with THAT weapon until 3rd and after that I think he'd be better off dumping that weapon and just using Whip Mastery after that.

SO to Wei Ji, you could get it at first if you don't mind using Heirloom Weapon for 2 levels. It can work if you don't mind having a trait that's 100% useless after 2nd level. [well 99.9% as you could sell the weapon for 2.5 gp of pure profit ;) ]

Well, I'm not 100% convinced weapon focus (whip) or sacred weapon (whip) transfers across, so we're into table variation, and it might be better to play safe. I'm extrapolating that from the fact you now need the separate proficiency.

The weapon from heirloom weapon remains a bit more relevant now we have the Masterwork Transformation spell

Well, I'm not 100% convinced weapon focus (whip) or sacred weapon (whip) transfers across, so we're into table variation, and it might be better to play safe.

Seems pretty straight forward. What weapon proficiency do you use? Whip [and scorpion whip]. What is the weapon focus based on? Weapon proficiency. Sacred weapon? Weapon proficiency.

FAQ: "What this means is that the scorpion whip is normally a light performance weapon with no other special weapon features, but that someone with both proficiencies can also use it as a whip, in which case it acts precisely like a whip in all ways (one-handed weapon, attack out to 15 feet, provoke an attack of opportunity, can use the Whip Mastery feats, etc) except that it deals lethal damage and can harm creatures regardless of their armor bonus."

"acts precisely like a whip in all ways" seems rock solid IMO. Not having sacred weapon or weapon focus work would seem to acting NOT like a whip in all ways. Now I'm not saying there wouldn't be table variation but you could have that over ANY rule...

EDIT: note Whip Mastery feats are listed as usable, feats that require weapon focus [whip] to use...

good point. if feats that require the weapon focus are OK, sacred weapon should be. (waits for argument that you need Weapon Focus (scorpion whip) to take Whip Mastery)

(I'd forgotten about the FAQ, probably due to the UE errata)

Humans can gain proficiency with both whip and scorpion whip at first level thanks to military tradition, regardless of BAB.

Humans can gain proficiency with both whip and scorpion whip at first level thanks to military tradition, regardless of BAB.

Half-Elves can get it from a racial trait too, but the question was about a Tengu :-)

Tengus just need to convince their GM that a scorpion whip is a very tiny sword on a rope.