GM Euan's Jade Regent

Game Master Euan

Welcome to GM Euan’s Discussion Thread!

This is for the Jade Regent AP (PF1). Please download and read the Jade Regent Players Guide (link). Note, we are not using the ‘Romance’ rules. You may certainly have romances with the NPCs as they develop, but we’re not going to map it out on a chart with graphs. We are going to use at least some of the caravan rules. I may do something different with the combats (or at least some of them), but we’ll see how it goes. The systems seems OK.

There is no recruitment. We have all our players.

Do not worry what the others are playing as it doesn’t matter. If we have all halfling bards, we’ll make it work, and likely have a lot of fun along the way. Build what you want to play. I’m more worried about balance between party members than I am balance between the party and your foes.

We will be using Roll20 (link) for the mapping, Paizo (link) for gameplay, and Slack (link) for some out of character discussions. There will also be a spreadsheet in Google Drive (link) for tracking treasure, NPCs, the caravan, time, and whatever else makes sense.

I want a brisk game, so please carefully consider your commitment. I hope to post twice a day, and more often as needed, though I try to post at the pace of play. I hope you will each post once a day, pending interactions and the like of course. If you haven’t posted for 24 hours, I will DMPC you, have you delay, or otherwise fall behind.

You will start at first level, but you won’t be there long! The campaign finishes at around 15th level. You are beginning in Sandpoint (link), a lovely little town in Varisia (link) just a little northeast of the great city of Magnimar (link).

The campaign begins on Gozran 1, 4711 AR, around four years after the Rise of the Runelords.

Please create your character following the standard Pathfinder rules (version 1) point buy system (link) using a 20 point buy. We’ll do Hit Points in the old Pathfinder Society style - maximum at first level, average +1 for all subsequent levels (so Fighters start with 10, and gain 6 at each level for example). We’re not using mythic, variant multi-classing rules, or any third party rules such as gestalt or spheres of power. I do not want to limit your alignment too much, but no evil folks rattling around please.

You’ll start with three traits (link), one of which must be chosen from the campaign (link, scroll down) list for the AP. You may have a drawback if you wish, but it does not give you an additional trait, so I don’t expect any but the most adventurous to do so.

You’ll start with 200 gp in your pocket, thanks in part to a successful event in your recent past. Perhaps you just finished a stint as a mercenary guard for one of the many businesses or districts in Magnimar; or just sold off your best crafting efforts; or perhaps inherited some money and just finished collecting it at the church of Pharasma in the Keystone district of Magnimar. Or maybe you just come from a monied family. Whatever it is, please mention it in your background - history or memory (see below).

I am open to most Paizo sources. As a general rule, if it’s not approved by the Pathfinder Society, I won’t approve it either, but there are exceptions (like crafting) so feel free to ask. I prefer not using ‘isolated’ sources (like material sourced only from other APs), but I will review on a case by case basis. Also, I know there are other sites with Pathfinder rules, but please try to link to the Archives of Nethys (link) whenever possible in your references.

No gunslingers or other ‘tech’ themes. Sorry. I like my fantasy fantastic and firearms throw me off a bit. Please no summoners and no very unbalanced builds. You should build well, but someone who’s only good at one thing, will spend a lot of time waiting as the others play. This isn’t a competition. You will be working as a team, and will only succeed as a group. Limit your race to the core book though alternate race traits are probably fine. Lastly, nothing from the Occult Adventures. I find that all the characters I’ve met or built from that book, are a bit broken or just plain confusing.

Please write a description (what do people see when they look at you?) along with a semi-public background (what would someone with a Knowledge, Local DC 15 (link) know about you?). Please also write a detailed background that’s private to you and me. Speak about what’s essential to your character, goals you may have, people you may know, and a memory of something important to you. The detailed background need not be long. 6-8 short paragraphs are sufficient in most cases (history x2, essentials, goals, people, memory).

PLEASE pay attention to your background and description. I am far more interested in who you are than what you are. Build a character that is interesting and capable of solving problems. Please do not build a min-max barbarian beat-stick (which isn’t to say no barbarians, just make it colorful!). You won't have much fun in this game. It isn't that you won't be fighting obviously, just avoid the one-dimensional character.

Please try not to build around ‘save or suck’ spells and effects. For the most part, until late in the game anyway, I’ll avoid the same (though with Hero points in play I’m a little less restrained). We’re here to have a good time and push our characters to succeed - but putting every big-bad in the AP to sleep, for example, is counter to everyone having fun. So build well, but be mindful of overall balance.

I like the sort of output that Herolab produces, but any reasonable character sheet structure is fine. If you want to send me PDF updates once a level to keep your details private, that’s fine too.

I do request though that you include - either at the top or bottom of your document or somewhere else equally handy - a quick cut-and-paste combat section. Ideally it’ll have your most common combat combinations. If I need to GMPC you for any reason, I’ll use what’s there, modified by the situation of course or delay you. I’ll try not to use up any limited resources. If there are no combinations, I’ll delay you in most cases especially at higher levels where it gets more complicated.

I’m sure you will have questions I have not answered. For more information please see the Campaign tab. There is a lot of useful stuff there on what I’m looking for in terms of tone, some discussion of die rolling, etiquette, crafting, and more to let you know what sort of campaign I plan to run. It might help to answer some questions you may have and is an important read.

Finally, out of respect for Paizo, and the age of possible players and readers, I keep my campaigns PG 13 for the most part. Please do the same.

When you have a character ready for my review, ping me in Slack or link to them here in a spoiler.

Feel free to coordinate with the other players, but I prefer you do as much of that in character as you can - there will be opportunities in the Gameplay thread and I won’t expect your final characters right away. Naturally, if you want to have some sort of prior relationship with another character or some other complicated construct you’ll need to have those conversations out of character to save time.

An addendum. I am using background skills also. So two extra skills per level chosen from the background list (link).

Let me know if this raises any questions.

I'm going to post for Rory here, so hopefully I don't forget it exists.

An addendum. I am using background skills also. So two extra skills per level chosen from the background list (link).

Let me know if this raises any questions.

Always, there are always questions.

Presently I don't have any crafting skills for Rory, in his original backstory his maternal grandfather did leather-craft. I used Craft armor to make 'natural' armor that could be used by druids.

I was wondering if he used both background skills to make stuff from leather and natural elements, if he could make basic leather stuff, like belts, saddles and leather armor but then expand it to make stuff out of other natural elements: Bone, horn and more exotic stuff, like Darkleaf.

Eventually I'm hoping to spend a Feat on craft wands which would be made from similar materials.

I imagined his people living in the Sanos forest in their 'hobbit holes' providing clothing and gear for themselves from the woods around them. Everything except for metal for weapons, those they'd get from the gnomes.

I'm just not sure what that would look like. Maybe a skill in craft armor and a skill in profession or artistry for 'natural materials'? Since he's a hunter I want him to be able to use the 'whole' animal but I want it to have some in game practicality. So if we kill a dragon he could craft the hide into armor, or something like that.

Aldizog checking in here with my PC.

No questions.

Wow. Seems like you’re calling Mukluk dense here. I mean, you’re not wrong. Mukluk is all the ways of dense, but there was no need to be so overt about it.

Still working on Rory, his last game he was a little snarky, so I used that word here. I felt like it was more "Oh the sheriff won't kill us, he'd just lock us up" Like "you don't have to worry about it" But then thinking about it, it was like, well they do execute prisoners. but it's not called murder. Like he forgot that capital punishment was a thing.

I don't know the intent was to make it seem like mukluk is dumb, but using snarky as the description probably made it seem like it. I don't want it to seem like he's mean, because he shouldn't be.

Mukluk Muletender wrote:

Wow. Seems like you’re calling Mukluk dense here. I mean, you’re not wrong. Mukluk is all the ways of dense, but there was no need to be so overt about it.

Still working on Rory, his last game he was a little snarky, so I used that word here. I felt like it was more "Oh the sheriff won't kill us, he'd just lock us up" Like "you don't have to worry about it" But then thinking about it, it was like, well they do execute prisoners. but it's not called murder. Like he forgot that capital punishment was a thing.

I don't know the intent was to make it seem like mukluk is dumb, but using snarky as the description probably made it seem like it. I don't want it to seem like he's mean, because he shouldn't be.

I believe Mukluk was responding to this:

”Follow the trail, such as it is, to the end, and there you’ll find Walthus’s place. Can’t miss it once you're on the right trail, though there are some questionable bridges along the path,” he adds gauging the density of the dwarves.

That is, the GM was calling Dwarves dense.

LOL, now that I've reread the post, I think you may be right Durgan. Maybe it's that Rory, Storm and I have a guilty conscious. Rory did 'roll his eyes' at Mukluk along with his comment. But I was trying to figure out why the GM liked the post...

Also, I'm having trouble not abbreviating names to Muc, Dur and Kis, just saying.

For me, as a player, you can tease Mukluk to your heart's content. He may or may not fire back, but I won't hold it against you.

I'm sure Mukluk can handle all the jabs you toss his way. After all, Storm is the smart one of two of you and it's not like he is chopping to do some verbal jousting.

Then Mukluk might be worried.

I'm sure Mukluk can handle all the jabs you toss his way. After all, Storm is the smart one of two of you...

LOL, and Rory is a halfling so you know he doesn't jab that hard.

Just putting this everywhere, so dropping it here too

My posting may be slow for a couple of days, I still intend to check the boards a couple of times a day, but I'm not living at the computer. Don't wait for me to make the decisions and if we get in combat bot me if needed.

Both my wife and mom have come down with covid. My mom (86) was almost unresponsive so we called the squad, she's at the hospital. I'll end up being there a bit and taking care of my wife, thus not at the computer as much as usual and I hate posting on my phone.

Yeah, take care of the important stuff. We’ll make sure Stormy is cared for while you’re gone, don’t you worry, Roresy. I got some fresh pecan nuts and me Stew o’ Three Sisters so we’ll keep Stormy good and fed.

...31.0 gp leftover starting gold
+.251.0 gp first distribution
========
..282.0 gp to spend
-...5.0 gp nuts, lots of nuts
-..50.0 gp potion of clw
========
..227.0 gp to spend

I would have sworn I posted this the other day, but I looked behind all the pixels, and it's not there. Sigh...

Level Up!

I do believe you should now be level 2.

Please note the things that have changed or been added, and put it all in a spoiler so those who don't want to know your build can remain in the dark. For those of you with character sheets off site, please send me your updated sheets for reference if applicable. If it's the 'same' sheet, no need, just let me know when you're done updating it so I can give a once over. Thanks.

You gain all of your new abilities right away, including new spells and the like. You really leveled up when you deciphered the fan.

Durgan's level-up:
Cleric 2
+7 HP (+1d8+2)
+1 BAB/CMB/CMD
+1 Fort/Will
+1 FCB (skill points)
+4 skill points (Religion, Spellcraft, Arcana, Heal)
+2 background skills (Nobility, Appraise)
+1 orison/day (Detect Magic for now)
+1 1st-level spell/day (Divine Favor for now)

Sold Items:
Rory's Studded leather armor: 12.5 gp.
Storms Studded leather armor: 25 gp.
Sub total earned: 37.5
Purchased Items:
Chain shirt for Storm 200 gp.
2 Potions of CLW 100 gp.
Sub total spent: 300 gp.
- 262.5‬ total

If he'd used his spells in the fight maybe Kisaiya wouldn't have been wounded.

You do realize that Durgan did use his spells in the fight, and that the expended Liberating Command would not have spared Kisaiya any injury, right?

And 15 gp per charge is a ton of money at low levels when you consider things like flasks of acid vs swarms.

Oh of course I do, and I think Rory did as well. I didn't mean for it to sound like an attack on Durgan, I was just trying to spitball how Rory felt about magic.

If you look at his sheet:

I was having him mentally go through the process explaining his attitude. A writing exercise that will help me keep the character focused. If it sounded like he was being derogatory or snarky towards Durgan that really wasn't the intent.

I'm not sure more explanation is needed, but it can't hurt right? Rory grew up in the backwoods part of a small community that was self-sufficient except for the few things they would have traded for with the local gnomes. His ideas about money and possibly magic Possibly even where his pet wolf should be allowed to enter. would be very different than 'normal society.' Hopefully we can explore those differences without causing offense.

Totally happy to have Durgan heal the party for free, or to have Durgan not heal the party for free. Whatever you guys want. I had missed the "let's buy a wand" agreement on Slack.

So missing the conversation makes sense, and I love the way you're playing Durgan.

Let me give you a little insight to previous conversations from other games. A lot of times folks feel like their cleric (or whoever his doing the curing) feels like there expected to be a 'heal' bot and watch everyone's HP for them and 'make them better'. Which is not how the characters see themselves nor is it there job. So, we've tended to ask characters to ask the 'divine caster' to use the wand and then to roll the 'clw' themselves, taking the onus off of the divine caster.

I prefer a portion of the 'till' to go towards purchasing such tools like the clw wand so it doesn't come directly out of the 'divine casters' pocket, and the games I've played with Euan we've done that.

I find Durgan's point about not 'wasting' money fun and a great topic. But let's try and find some middle ground. Maybe Rory carry the wand, and if Durgan's unconscious or unavailable he use it?

Personally, I do not find this a fun or engaging topic. I think it’s actually kinda s~+!ty as a player to take control over a group purchase and refuse to use it because you were not paying attention to when we purchased it, a group purchase that is usually obligatory and unremarked upon and totally assumed when the rest here have played together before. I do not find negotiating over petty interpersonal debts enjoyable in the slightest and would prefer to never do it. Ever.

I don't see a real need for Wands of CLW. We have gotten by just fine in S&S with mostly Channels and spell slots.
Now, Mac is a lot more generous than Durgan. But I did think that "Hey, let me spare some charges by healing for free" would not be met with reproach.

Clerics have to prepare spells, and if you don't guess well, those spells are wasted for the day. Being able to convert them to cures lets me at least feel useful.

Not trying to take control over a group purchase. I believe Kisaiya can use the wand herself without needing another to use it on her. Feel free to carry it.

However, Durgan will not contribute to future wands, as I don't see the need for them. Happy to forget about his investment in this one.

This group's idea that this purchase is obligatory and unremarked upon is quite new to me in 20+ years of 3.X. It would be good to know what other such obligatory investments there are. As I said, I play in other games with one or more of most of this group where things are different.

I don't see a real need for Wands of CLW.

Again, the reason we use them is so the cleric isn't forced to be a heal bot. And if your down we're screwed, so we need at least one

However, Durgan will not contribute to future wands, as I don't see the need for them. Happy to forget about his investment in this one.

Mechanically I don't see that as possible, we pull the cost out before we do the split. In game we can pretend it's not happening, but group costs should be group costs. Especially when we get higher and start keeping other items.

Edit: anything that would be needed that includes cost items like a wand of lesser restorations, or spell components that cost a lot. I don't see expecting Durgan to foot the bill for those.

My preference in game is a whole 'cut' going to group costs, with Euan, we just pull out funds for the occasional wand or spell component. My other concern is I don't want to get overly concerned about how things get spend. Rory has the only serious magical item, will Durgan refuse to let him have part of the 'next' cut because Rory got too much the last time? It just feels like we're going down a road to argue about 'in game' finances that we don't need to have.

It would require some more complicated math adjustments, but it could be done if necessary.

And I appreciate the clarification as your intent, Durgan, as it felt like Kisaiya was being reproached for requesting wand charges, which is not something I am used to having be a matter of debate and would prefer to stay that way. I understand better that you did not mean it as a reproach, but as being helpful

It was "No need, I've got this" in a more-gruff manner.

If I am expected to contribute because that is this party's way of doing things, then I will, as that is new information that I didn't have before, but I would rather rely on free healing from Channels and excess spells where possible and only start depleting wands as a fallback option.

That makes perfect sense, and we probably will never need to buy another CLW wand. But I would think things like spell component costs coming out of the group till would be beneficial for the 'divine spell' casters, at least that's how I see it.

So, it's not about the money. It's culture shock.
I've played in a lot of PF games, including many with members of this group, and none have had this approach towards magical healing. It feels so strange to me. I'm glad it works for you but I do not wish to be part of regularly buying wands of CLW. When I say that they aren't needed, I mean in the game system. Just my opinion. Games where PCs cannot or do not often purchase such things are more fun for me because they feel more evocative of fantasy. For me these include:

For some context, I believe a few of us are veterans of the Californian organized play culture, which has always been big on “everyone has a CLW wand and takes the average out of combat.” Questions of “how much are you down” are instead “how many wand charges do you need.” I’ve been at a table in which GMs from other regions called such things “San Diego Heresies.”

I understand your position regarding the feel of healing. When I played Mummy’s Mask from beginning to end f2f, the life oracle player genuinely enjoyed playing the healing math minigame, and we never relied on anything else.

For me, it’s an acceptable break in play by post to not have to worry about dying b/c the healer wasn’t paying attention to my health or having to ask in-character every time. Do not forget that my character died in that very same Strange Aeons game b/c there was a miscommunication on how much health my character had left and thus not being at full when the next combat started. For me, out of combat healing is not fun; it’s a little math game to play that’s interrupting the parts of the game I actually enjoy.

I get that you are coming at it from a different preference though, and I would be willing to discuss how best to resolve it with both sides meeting in the middle.

A 1/4 share is Durgan saying "No, you can fund your own communal thing but I want my full share of gold." I'm not going to do that.

A 1/5 share (Party Loot gets a full share) implies that the scrolls and wands of Party Loot are equal in value to a PC. I think it's unreasonably large, as it implies 25% of each PC's wealth going to such things.

A 2/9 share to each PC, and 1/9 to Party Loot, sounds reasonable, especially given that only 3 PCs will be drawing on it. Even without Durgan casting healing spells on the party, you will still find that his Channels and protective abilities take a lot of pressure off of the wands and scrolls.

My two strongest preferences are that I have no responsibility for or ownership of Party Loot, and that it is funded by a fixed share rather than by ad-hoc deductions.

Generally speaking, the goal here is to not pin healing on the cleric so the cleric can be whatever sort of character they want to be. However, here we have a cleric who wishes to heal. I’ve played those - they can be much fun. Let's embrace that.

That means you won’t need many, if any, more wands of CLW. No need to set aside even a half share, quite a large sum of money, toward something you may not ever need again. It is something we should avoid.

I’d rather proceed with the cleric doing what clerics do well, and not worry about separate tracking for a healing budget that my not be needed. After all, you’ll also get potions, as you just did, scrolls, and other odds and ends from the AP - which may be enough to fill any gaps that may occur.

If the party feels they need something in the future we can discuss it then. If the party wants to do shares in the future we can cover that then too. We're not talking about a lot of gold over time since there's a healer in the party, so I'm even fine covering the cost by GM fiat so as to avoid any problems. I even have a way in game of doing so (Ameiko), so it's all seamless.

Now as far as feeling like healing is a bit of a jaded concept, well, it is a bit I admit. Not sure if there is a solution for that. Adventurers get hurt. A lot. And so there’s a lot of healing that takes place. Hard for it not to feel a little commonplace. That said, it’s true - this sort of healing is still somewhat miraculous. I'll try to keep that more in mind.

My two bits. Happy to make whatever we all decide work.

That works for me, GM. I want people to play what they want and to get to fulfill their intentions for their characters. If Durgan wants to be healing focused, I’m fine with adjusting to make that enjoyable.

I feel like I have a better understanding of the underlying competing gameplay styles and how that ended up causing conflict, so no hard feelings here. That’s why talking things out is always good!

Works for me.
Now understanding Kisaiya's concerns, I will do my level best to not let anyone die through lack of healing (as I have, knock on wood, successfully done so far in S&S).

..227.0 gp to spend

..227.0 gp to spend

We may not need it for the trip to Brinewall, but for a longer trip I might seek to add a traveling forge to the caravan.

This is mostly in reference to the GM's comments about taking item crafting feats, specifically if we wanted to use Craft Magic Arms & Armor. I did find some references to portable forges in Viking society so it should be possible with Golarion technology. It is my guess that it would count as its own wagon, though there is no such wagon in the Players' Guide.

Or, we just do any smithing when we stop in a town.

That's a very good idea. I was thinking of a crafting wagon of some sort, but the idea hadn't 'gelled' yet. So I spent some time thinking on it. :)

I'm imagining a wooden wagon, with wooden walls and a roof much like the armored or prison wagons in that they're reinforced. You can have a small charcoal fired forge within, a few small tables for projects. Throw a Traveler's Any Tool (link) in there and you'll have a masterwork crafting area for say 3 projects at a time if you cram in, though 2 is more comfortable.

Let's call it 3,000gp, holds 4 travelers and 3 cargo, consumption 2.

I do recommend this eventually. As Durgan says, it doesn't matter now, but it'll really help later I think.

That sounds good. I don't believe a traveling forge would be used while in motion - a fire hot enough to forge weapons would be exceedingly dangerous inside a wooden wagon on a bumpy road.

We might travel while working in the wagon on smaller projects that don't require the forge; make camp, set up the forge, and have access to the higher temperatures for a few hours.

There are a lot of good pictures of Civil War traveling forges which were sent to accompany artillery batteries. These are basically heavy ovens on wheels, along with chests of tools.

I don't think any of this would change the mechanics, only how I envision the forge being used.

Oh, I agree entirely. Can't get into a good hammering rhythm with the coach weaving hither and yon. Not exactly good roads if you know what I mean.

I'm expecting that during the day, while traveling, one or more of you will work on some crafting project or other, then in the evenings, the forge is worked and the heavy stuff is done. We won't track it so finely though as a rule. Just daily progression.

Oh, as you each have a caravan job, you'll only have the usual 4hrs a day to craft under most circumstances. When you hit villages and towns, if you're not a trader (and you still need more for the best return on investment) you can put in a full day of course.

Remember to check the Campaign tab for more on crafting, especially the time needed. It'll be clearer when we start doing things, but let me know if there are questions.

GM Euan - Jade wrote:

Getting some masterwork transformations?

yep :) Is there a fee for the three spells or is it just the cost of the MW? If so I may need to alter my purchases depending on the amount. if were doing the traditional math Caster level × spell level × 10 gp I'll need to adjust some :)

Father Zantus may not be Abadarian, but his churchly income sees to it that the poor of Sandpoint don’t suffer overmuch. So he does charge for spell casting… for the most part. He’ll certainly charge someone whose purse is as fat as yours. :)

Cool, what's the good father's level, so I can do the math? I'll probably just do two spells and use the gold from the third to pay for them. MW gladius and MW Storms armor.

Rory's cut of the gold: 897 gp. Expenditures: Father Zantus mw transformation @ 2: 360gp casting for Rory shortsword, 210 gp. for Storms armor. Miss Koya 5 potions (@ 1/2 price) 1 lesser restorations: 150 and 4 clw 100 Items purchased from general store: Tent, small, 10 gp. (5 lbs,) Blanket @ 2, 1 gp. (.75 lbs.) Outfit, Cold-Weathe, 8 gp. (1.75 lbs) = 839 gp. expenditure. So 58 gp. added to Rory's present total.

Level Up!

I do believe you should now be level 3.

Please note the things that have changed or been added, and put it all in a spoiler so those who don't want to know your build can remain in the dark. For those of you with character sheets off site, please send me your updated sheets for reference if applicable. Thanks.

You gain all of your new abilities right away, including new spells and the like. Normally, you do not regain what you’ve already used/cast for today. However, the blessings of Desna are upon you and you may refresh your abilities as if you had rested a day.

How do you want to approach the fortress?

um, Rory wants to approach mounted on Storm, Storm wants to approach on all four feet..

Obscuring Mist is stationary and centered on you. Neither it nor Fog Cloud specify that they sink the way Cloudkill does, so it would be at our level and inhibiting Rory's sight and movement unless the GM house-rules them to sink. Fog Cloud can be centered on a point in the distance.

Lol, 0 for 2, apparently I need to read the descriptions on spells before I intend to use them, heck, before I post select them even. Thanks for the heads up Durgan, at least I figure it out before were really up the creek.

So if he slid down the ladder and cast it, would he be able to climb out and it stay there?

Yes, it would stay there for the duration, unless blown away. :)

Can't get into the square north of Rory without provoking an AOO.

Double check with him, but usually GM Euan lets us cut corners, so you may have been able to.

Since you can't 5' step through a hard corner, I assumed that getting into that square north of Rory would provoke an AOO from Green - which is why I didn't go there.

I know the rule, that's what I'm saying, Euan has regularly let us step through hard corners before. So, I thought it was worth asking, GM Euan?