Bellona |
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I'm so excited to see the Aldori stuff.
What is some of the stuff they get that hasn't been listed yet? Is the Aldori fighter archetype new or the old one from the Inner Sea Primer?
Just in case you haven't found/received the information yet, here is a quick summary of the changes to the Aldori swordlord Fighter archetype (originally in the Inner Sea Primer).
- The archetype has changed name from "Aldori swordlord" to "Aldori defender".
- Defensive Parry now gives a shield bonus to AC (instead of untyped), and it replaces all forms of Armour Training (instead of just 1 and 4).
- No longer loses Weapon Training 1.
- Disarming Strike is now gained at F 6 (instead of F 5), and it replaces the bonus Combat feat normally gained at F 6.
- Steel Net is now gained at F 8 (instead of F 7), and it replaces the bonus Combat feat normally gained at F 8.
- Counterattack is now gained at F 10 (instead of F 11), is limited to once per round (regardless of how many attacks of opportunity the Aldori defender can otherwise make), and it replaces the bonus Combat feat normally gained at F 10.
Bellona |
I have a question regarding the Aldori Duelling Sword (ADS) and a related one about the Aldori Swordlord prestige class' Deft Strike class feature.
Assuming Exotic Weapon Proficiency (ADS), is the ADS meant to be Weapon Finesse-able only in a one-handed grip? Or can one also use one's Dexterity modifier to attack (hit) - instead of one's Strength modifier - when using the ADS in a two-handed grip? (My assumption so far has been that Dexterity can only be used for the one-handed grip.)
Regarding the Aldori Swordlord prestige class feature Deft Strike: if wielding the ADS in a two-handed grip, does it allow one to apply one's Dexterity modifier to damage, or 1½ Dexterity modifier to damage? (My interpretation so far has been that it should be only Dexterity modifier to damage, regardless of grip. If one wishes, one can instead use 1½ Strength modifier to damage instead, as normal.)
Bellona |
Possibly, but I am hoping for an answer from someone who had designed the Aldori item/prestige class in question.
(My impression of the Rules forum is that few designers speak up there, and that the best that one can hope for there is to get a question FAQ'ed enough that it is chosen to go into the official FAQ.)
Dark Midian |
Possibly, but I am hoping for an answer from someone who had designed the Aldori item/prestige class in question.
(My impression of the Rules forum is that few designers speak up there, and that the best that one can hope for there is to get a question FAQ'ed enough that it is chosen to go into the official FAQ.)
Do remember that the Aldori dueling sword is quite old, and also unless a developer decides to pipe up on their own it's not wise to constantly bump a thread they may not even be reading just to pester for an answer.
A better way is to use the rules forum as it's intended.
DM Beckett |
Here is my understanding. Not sure this needs a FAQ, as it is pretty clear from the two books.
I have a question regarding the Aldori Duelling Sword (ADS) and a related one about the Aldori Swordlord prestige class' Deft Strike class feature.
Assuming Exotic Weapon Proficiency (ADS), is the ADS meant to be Weapon Finesse-able only in a one-handed grip? Or can one also use one's Dexterity modifier to attack (hit) - instead of one's Strength modifier - when using the ADS in a two-handed grip? (My assumption so far has been that Dexterity can only be used for the one-handed grip.)
Regarding the Aldori Swordlord prestige class feature Deft Strike: if wielding the ADS in a two-handed grip, does it allow one to apply one's Dexterity modifier to damage, or 1½ Dexterity modifier to damage? (My interpretation so far has been that it should be only Dexterity modifier to damage, regardless of grip. If one wishes, one can instead use 1½ Strength modifier to damage instead, as normal.)
Aldori Dueling Sword: These slightly curved swords measure just over 3 feet in length. An Aldori dueling sword may be used as a Martial Weapon (in which case it functions as a longsword), but if you have the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Aldori dueling sword), you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls with an Aldori dueling sword sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon. You can also wield an Aldori dueling sword in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage.
Deft Strike (Ex): An Aldori swordlord can add his Dexterity bonus (if any) to damage rolls made with an Aldori
dueling sword instead of his Strength bonus. This bonus on damage rolls applies whether the swordlord is wielding an Aldori dueling sword one-handed or two-handed. An Aldori swordlord cannot use this ability if he is wielding a shield or using an off-hand weapon (including armor spikes, unarmed strikes, or natural weapons).
If you have Exotic Weapon Proficiency, you can wield the Aldori Dueling Sword, (normally an Exotic 1 Handed Weapon or a Martial "Longsword"), as a Finessable Weapon, even though it is not a Light Weapon. If you wield the sword in two hands, you can deal Str x1.5 as normal, (it is not a Light Weapon).
The Prestige Class allows you to use Dex for Damage instead of Str, essentially giving you three options; Weapon Finesse can apply to all.
Str for Damage wielding in one hand
Dex for Damage wielding in one hand
or
Str x1.5 for wielding wielding it with two hands
I believe the ruling is that Dex to damage does not allow you to get the extra x.5 for wielding it in two hands, (except for the Unchained Rogue that specifically does), but could be wrong. The Class itself, though does not say that it does with Deft Strike.
KingOfAnything |
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I believe the ruling is that Dex to damage does not allow you to get the extra x.5 for wielding it in two hands, (except for the Unchained Rogue that specifically does), but could be wrong. The Class itself, though does not say that it does with Deft Strike.
It is the reverse, actually. Dex-to-damage was explicitly one-handed before the Unchained Rogue (Dervish Dance, agile). The rogue didn't have the restrictive language and it was clarified that it meant they could get 1.5x Dex-to-damage. Because Deft Strike applies when wielding two-handed, and it says that Dex replaces Str, it would get the 1.5x Dex bonus to damage.
DM Beckett |
DM Beckett wrote:I believe the ruling is that Dex to damage does not allow you to get the extra x.5 for wielding it in two hands, (except for the Unchained Rogue that specifically does), but could be wrong. The Class itself, though does not say that it does with Deft Strike.It is the reverse, actually. Dex-to-damage was explicitly one-handed before the Unchained Rogue (Dervish Dance, agile). The rogue didn't have the restrictive language and it was clarified that it meant they could get 1.5x Dex-to-damage. Because Deft Strike applies when wielding two-handed, and it says that Dex replaces Str, it would get the 1.5x Dex bonus to damage.
What you said does not seem to be the reverse of what I said, but repeating it with the exception of the Dex x1.5 part.
I could be wrong, but I believe that it was clarified that normally Dex to Damage does not get the extra x1.5 for two-handed fighting, Except for the Unchained Rogue.
As you pointed out, in almost every other case it is irrelevant as the ability to get Dex to Damage usually stipulates either fighting with one hand or that the item is a Light Weapon which does not benefit from fighting with two hands anyway.
Happy to be proven wrong, especially as this seems to be something that has gone back and forth a lot.
KingOfAnything |
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You implied to be a general rule what was, in fact, several specific cases including specific restrictions.
So no, the Unchained rogue does not specifically include an exception that allows it to 1.5x Dex. The Unchained Rogue omits the rules language that prevented 1.5x Dex. The FAQ clarified what that omission meant.
The differences between a general rule and a specific rule are subtle, but important. You can tell because we reached opposite conclusions.
Whenever she makes a successful melee attack with the selected weapon, she adds her Dexterity modifier instead of her Strength modifier to the damage roll.
Deft Strike, like a rogue's Finesse Training, only replaces Strength with Dexterity. Neither restricts you to using one hand or limits the bonus to damage (a la agile).
DM Beckett |
You implied to be a general rule what was, in fact, several specific cases including specific restrictions.
So no, the Unchained rogue does not specifically include an exception that allows it to 1.5x Dex. The Unchained Rogue omits the rules language that prevented 1.5x Dex. The FAQ clarified what that omission meant.
The differences between a general rule and a specific rule are subtle, but important. You can tell because we reached opposite conclusions.
I don't want to bog this thread down, but I wasn't implying anything. The last ruling I heard on the matter is that Str 1.5 does not convert to Dex 1.5 for wielding a weapon in two hands. The Unchained Rogue is the only exception, (not because of the specific wording of the Uncahined Rogue, but because the FAQ says, in that case only, yes).
It's not a matter of General vs Specific rules. The General Rule is that Dex does not normally get 1.5 for to handed fighting, as I understand it. Has this been changed somewhere? If so, than I'm wrong, and that's why I've repeated mentioned "as far as I know".
A Specific rule is that Uncahined Rogues can. No other option would unless it also had a Specific Rule. If I recall, this also applies to anything that replaces Str to Damage, so Cha to Damage likewise does not get the extra damage for fighting with two hands, nor would Int to Damage.
Deft Strike does not have such a rule. Most other cases of Dex to Damage are designed to not allow it by their nature.
If I am incorrect, please post a FAQ or Ruling, as I would honestly like to know.
Isabelle Lee |
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Probably a good time to start a new thread. ^_^
As for answers from the designer: Bellona, it's important to note that both the Aldori dueling sword and the Aldori swordlord prestige class are pickups from much older books. I never laid a finger on 'em. So you probably won't have much luck asking about design intention here.
Haladir |
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Bellonna: Some version of the Aldori dueling sword has been in print since the 3.5 Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting, which was published almost a decade ago. It looks like the weapon itself really hasn't changed much when converted from 3.5 to Pathfinder.
No idea who the original designer was, or if that person is even still around.
I think you should post in the Rules forum and ask for an FAQ.
EDIT: And Ninja'd by one of the designers!
KingOfAnything |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
The previous version of the Aldori Swordlord included the restriction.
An Aldori swordlord can add his Dexterity bonus (if any) on damage rolls made with an Aldori dueling sword instead of his Strength bonus. This bonus on damage rolls applies whether the swordlord is wielding an Aldori dueling sword one-handed or twohanded, though the swordlord does not apply 1-1/2 times his Dexterity bonus on damage rolls while fighting two-handed. An Aldori swordlord cannot use this ability if he is wielding a shield or an off-hand weapon, including armor spikes, unarmed strikes, or natural weapons.
Without the restriction, Deft Strike applies 1.5 Dex-to-damage when fighting two-handed, like normal.
Isabelle Lee |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
EDIT: And Ninja'd by one of the designers!
I should note: I'm technically not a "designer" (which I believe is a specific official position). I'm a freelancer writer who has written for Paizo products, including this one.
Best for me to keep my official relationship with the process clear, and all that. ^_^
CorvusMask |
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I'm pretty sure that in general 1.5 damage bonus with two handed only applies to str unless specifically written otherwise. Restriction being pointed out doesn't always means that opposite is true(aka if it isn't mentioned, then dex damage gives that 1.5 damage bonus on two handed), some rule text is written out just to remind readers how it works.
Like, in case of elven curve blade, I'm pretty sure it doesn't give that dex 1.5 bonus on two handed, only with str.
Xethik |
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Like, in case of elven curve blade, I'm pretty sure it doesn't give that dex 1.5 bonus on two handed, only with str.
I think that strongly depends on how you are getting Dex to damage, and not the weapon it is being applied to.
But, yes, I think another topic is appropriate.
CorvusMask |
Please back that assertion up with references. In a new thread, preferably.
I don't really feel like making new thread for it since it can be summed up as "Rules say this 'Wielding a Weapon Two-Handed: When you deal damage with a weapon that you are wielding two-handed, you add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus (Strength penalties are not multiplied). You don't get this higher Strength bonus, however, when using a light weapon with two hands.', rules do not say that damage modifier is multiplied, just str bonus."
Ye are free to debate about it though :D
Rysky |
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KingOfAnything wrote:Please back that assertion up with references. In a new thread, preferably.I don't really feel like making new thread for it since it can be summed up as "Rules say this 'Wielding a Weapon Two-Handed: When you deal damage with a weapon that you are wielding two-handed, you add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus (Strength penalties are not multiplied). You don't get this higher Strength bonus, however, when using a light weapon with two hands.', rules do not say that damage modifier is multiplied, just str bonus."
Ye are free to debate about it though :D
In a new thread where it can be properly discussed.
CorvusMask |
CorvusMask wrote:In a new thread where it can be properly discussed.KingOfAnything wrote:Please back that assertion up with references. In a new thread, preferably.I don't really feel like making new thread for it since it can be summed up as "Rules say this 'Wielding a Weapon Two-Handed: When you deal damage with a weapon that you are wielding two-handed, you add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus (Strength penalties are not multiplied). You don't get this higher Strength bonus, however, when using a light weapon with two hands.', rules do not say that damage modifier is multiplied, just str bonus."
Ye are free to debate about it though :D
If someone does create that thread, I wouldn't mind link though. I could say a lot of things if I bothered to xD So if someone wants to make thread about it, sure I can go there to post them, but I don't care enough about alternate damage modifiers matter to start it myself.
DM Beckett |
Please back that assertion up with references.
Wasn't that what I asked of you?
:P
Ye are free to debate about it though :DIn a new thread where it can be properly discussed.
I started a new thread, HERE for further discussion. I'm not sure I'll even follow it, as I was just trying to see if something had changed as far as the last I had heard, less than to argue one side or the other, but it's there if folks want.
Did I leave out anything from the question or is it pretty straight forward?
technarken |
Is the Storm Dreamer Medium archetype supposed to completely remove Spirit Surge while keeping the Taboo class feature and powers that depend on Spirit Surge, or is there something it was supposed to get that either replaces these abilities or lets them function absent spirit surge?
I'd really appreciate some sort of input on this. I'd hate for such a flavorful little archetype to be marred by this.
Ventnor |
Please back that assertion up with references. In a new thread, preferably.
Unchained Rogue Finesse Training: When I'm replacing Strength for Dexterity, what happens with a one-handed weapon? What about an off-hand weapon?
With a two-handed weapon, you add 1-1/2 times your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls, and with an off-hand weapon, you add half your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls. As per the ability's text, if an effect would prevent you from adding your Strength modifier on damage rolls, you don't add your Dexterity modifier. However, any other effects that would increase the multiplier to your Strength bonus on damage rolls (such as the two-handed fighter archetype's overhand chop) do not affect your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls.
Kalindlara Contributor |
Bellona |
Thank you to everyone for you comments/answers, and a big thank you to Beckett for starting the new thread!
It's unfortunate that the changes in wording between the ISWG and AG have made things unclear, and the PU FAQ certainly muddies the waters even more. Maybe the developer (if that's the right term) should weight in either here, or in the new thread. Otherwise there will be a million and one interpretations of the RAW (+FAQ).
Plausible Pseudonym |
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LOL x 1000 at this item:
These magical baubles were originally created to aid Chelish nobles in slipping away to engage in trysts with fellow partygoers, but the Silver Ravens have seized upon them as an excellent way to baffle
foes in public areas without resorting to combat.
It's a single use item that costs 3,500 gp!
Him: "Let's make an arrangement to meet tomorrow afternoon at a discrete, luxurious inn I know, we can lie to our spouses about where we are."
Her: "Or, we could burn 7,000 gp to create an illusion of the two of us standing in this corner talking for ten minutes, which will only hold up if no one actually comes over and talks to us. Then we use 30 seconds of invisibility to sneak off and have a quickie in a broom closet before coming back and explaining why our illusions suddenly vanished in a room full of people."
Him: "Genius!"
Wei Ji the Learner |
It's a single use item that costs 3,500 gp!Him: "Let's make an arrangement to meet tomorrow afternoon at a discrete, luxurious inn I know, we can lie to our spouses about where we are."
Her: "Or, we could burn 7,000 gp to create an illusion of the two of us standing in this corner talking for ten minutes, which will only hold up if no one actually comes over and talks to us. Then we use 30 seconds of invisibility to sneak off and have a quickie in a broom closet before coming back and explaining why our illusions suddenly vanished in a room full of people."
Him: "Genius!"
I think this explains Chelaxian nobility far better than a hundred splats could.
Except it could be Him/Him, They/Them, Her/Her, etc, etc.
Good job.
Plausible Pseudonym |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think the item was more meant to be used with the user stuffing his face with hors d'oeuvres in the corner, then winking at someone in the crowd to follow him/her *a few moments later* :)
It could summon a custom succubus to do the deed right there and then with perfect imitation of anyone else and it would still be hilariously overpriced at 3,500 gp. I guess this is what happens when you ban or suppress the Calistrian prostitute market and you get weird black market work arounds like this.
Rysky |
Valeria Tanessen wrote:I think the item was more meant to be used with the user stuffing his face with hors d'oeuvres in the corner, then winking at someone in the crowd to follow him/her *a few moments later* :)It could summon a custom succubus to do the deed right there and then with perfect imitation of anyone else and it would still be hilariously overpriced at 3,500 gp. I guess this is what happens when you ban or suppress the Calistrian prostitute market and you get weird black market work arounds like this.
*grumble* dancehalls *grumble*
Valeria Tanessen |
Valeria Tanessen wrote:I think the item was more meant to be used with the user stuffing his face with hors d'oeuvres in the corner, then winking at someone in the crowd to follow him/her *a few moments later* :)It could summon a custom succubus to do the deed right there and then with perfect imitation of anyone else and it would still be hilariously overpriced at 3,500 gp. I guess this is what happens when you ban or suppress the Calistrian prostitute market and you get weird black market work arounds like this.
If I read the item correctly this item gives you a good 10 minutes though... a... very... solid... duration... if I say so myself.. :P
Benchak the Nightstalker Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8 |
LOL x 1000 at this item:
Discretion Charm, pg. 177 wrote:These magical baubles were originally created to aid Chelish nobles in slipping away to engage in trysts with fellow partygoers, but the Silver Ravens have seized upon them as an excellent way to baffle
foes in public areas without resorting to combat.It's a single use item that costs 3,500 gp!
Him: "Let's make an arrangement to meet tomorrow afternoon at a discrete, luxurious inn I know, we can lie to our spouses about where we are."
Her: "Or, we could burn 7,000 gp to create an illusion of the two of us standing in this corner talking for ten minutes, which will only hold up if no one actually comes over and talks to us. Then we use 30 seconds of invisibility to sneak off and have a quickie in a broom closet before coming back and explaining why our illusions suddenly vanished in a room full of people."
Him: "Genius!"
Broom closet?
More like the Lord-mayor's study (there are some things you just shouldn't do with sealing wax), the Paracountesses private "dungeon" (where does she get all those marvelous toys?), or the props room at the Kintargo Opera House (what's the point of re-enacting those Larazod and Ilsandra scenes without authentic equipment!?).
DM Alistair |
You'll have to forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere but there seems to be some confusion for me in this book for the Argent Dramaturge and it's Argent Performance ability. Reading the full write up, it states the following:
At 13th level, an argent dramaturge can start an argent performance as a swift action if she chooses.
The only issue is that this prestige class only has 10 levels in it. That's fine is by level you mean "total levels of all classes" but this is a bit of a problem as in the prestige class's Class Features block it lists that they receive this ability at Argent Dramaturge level 7 specifically.
The wording assumes that a player will go into the class immediately at 7th level. While this could be true for 99% of the players who choose to do so, there may well be some people who do so at, say, level 9! The wording in the feature would then make it appear that they would be able to do the swift action part of the Argent performance ability at Argent Dramaturge level 5 even though the class features block clearly shows it at AD level 7.
Just thought I would bring this to your attention.