Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Adventurer's Guide (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Adventurer's Guide (PFRPG)
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Being an adventurer is a dangerous line of work, but the rewards are well worth the risk. The smartest adventurers never go it alone—they not only bring allies to help explore the dangerous reaches of the world, but also seek aid in the form of support, supplies, and secrets from powerful organizations. With such a group to serve as a guide, an adventuring party's chances for success have never been better!

Pathfinder RPG Adventurer's Guide presents several such organizations, each with its own suite of benefits and boons to grant those affiliated with it. Designed for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and drawing upon the rich traditions of the official Pathfinder campaign setting, this indispensable guide for adventurers provides a wealth of new character options for your game.

Pathfinder RPG Adventurer's Guide includes:

  • Details on 18 different organizations that use adventurers to further their goals, including the law-enforcing Hellknights, the sinister assassins of the Red Mantis, and of course, the world-renowned Pathfinder Society itself.
  • A wealth of new player options, including feats, spells, magic items, prestige classes, archetypes, and new abilities and powers for a wide range of classes.
  • Rules and advice on how to incorporate the new options found in this book into your own game, whether it takes place in the official Pathfinder campaign setting or in a world of your own choice or design.
  • Notes on the movers and shakers of each organization—nonplayer characters who can come alive in your game as allies and advisors for the player characters.
  • AND MUCH, MUCH MORE!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-938-7

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Rulebook Subscription.

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Deepens My Investment in Golarion

5/5

I didn’t expect to find such a connection to this book, having not played the APs that touch on the various groups contained herein (and also just generally hating hellknights), but hoo-boy was I surprised.

The writing is lovely, the characters and organizations are vivid, and the player options are exciting and well-designed. The gray maidens chapter in particular blew me away in particular. The mechanics of their player options are a pedect combination of flavorful and mechanically effective, and have the added bonus of fitting together into a coherent and effective character build.


Great Book!

5/5

Read my full review on Of Dice and Pen.

These days, it can take a lot for a book focused on new feats, spells, etc. to impress me. I’ve reached a saturation point. There are so many options now that I can’t keep track of them all, and most new ones get forgotten soon after I read them. Adventurer’s Guide is one of the few books that stays in my mind and keeps pulling me back to it. I can’t recommend it enough!


The worst core line offering by far

1/5

The title is misleading, as was posited by many during the product preview, and mealy-mouthedly denied by Paizo. This is a Golarion book, period, which has no place in the core line, and the contents consist of an insultingly large percentage of reprints. Shameful, really.


Good Product if New

4/5

Soooo...I'm going to say that I obsessively collect Pathfinder products, and as such, much of this material is old hat for me. Emphasis here is 'for me.' With that said, I want to examine this in a vacuum.

The artwork is good, but then, it's been good. It serves more as a 'Faction Guide 2' for me than anything, giving some details about the various organizations, class options, feats, and ties. In particular, though, I like that I don't have to flip through two or three books to get character options for the factions. Hellknights in particular were always a pain due to how diffuse their rules were. I can now hand this book to a person and say "here ya go. Here's some ideas of factions in the setting."

One drawback, as has been mentioned, is spoilers for the various APs. While I use those sparingly, it can be somewhat problematic, and I'd suggest steering players away from this if that's the case.

Overall, it's a decent enough product. If you're new to the setting, it's worth picking up as a nice collected list. If you're old hat, a few options inside are interesting enough, and a few setting updates are worth examining. I'm particularly interested in the Lantern Bearers' new direction.


Solid addition with some faults

4/5

This book helps clear up and collect a lot of older material, balanced now with other released material for GMs. It also adds in a wealth of new material for factions of Adventurers across Golarion.

What's good?
A solid collection of old and new under one singular heading.

What's bad?
Some factions contain major spoilers, making it hard for a GM to just pass off to players who may be playing certain APs.

What's fun?
Inclusion of multiple races and creeds and even transgendered factions and npcs in multiple parts of the book. This book really fleshed out some factions which had little to no crunch.

What's odd?
Certain feats are fun but others are less the useable. A feat that allows a bonus on maneuvers but doesn't stack with improved maneuver feats? Those are the ones that help avoid AoO. So what's the point of the feat? Additionally a heads up to some people about the amount of reprints would have calmed an angry section of customers.

Honestly I love the book and can't wait to try out some of the new material and some of the updated versions of older (and due to other books options more unbalanced) options.

When you get past the salty tears of angry optimizers, you're left with a fine entry into the guides section with Inner Seas flavour.


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Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
Did the Lanternbearers get much love?

I think so.

Lantern bearers:
The Prestige Class brings light powers into combination with combat abilities designed to fight the drow.

The Blossoming Light Cleric archetype forsakes armor and militant power in exchange for powerful redeeming magic.

The Lantern Lighter Ranger archetype focuses on rescuing prisoners of the drow and even drow themselves who wish to flee their oppressive society.

Two new elven swords, an antitoxin honey, a banshee's howl magic rapier which sobs and can wail in combat, elven vengeance magic chain which helps protect against attacks by certain demon worshipers, a lantern of hidden light with light that can only be seen by the wielder, and a ring of retreat allowing a quick exit to an elf gate as per word of recall in equipment.

Also three spells: One like daylight only longer, one to negate poison attacks, and one to help with difficult moral dilemmas.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Alright moving my focus what goodies do we have from the mammoth lords?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
jedi8187 wrote:
MYTHIC FEROS wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:
What factions get the Alchemist, Bloodrager, Brawler, Hunter, Magus, Medium, Occultist, Spiritualist, Summoner, Vigilante, and Warpriest archetypes.

** spoiler omitted **

Thank you so much. Can you provide more info on The Bloodrager, Magus, Medium, Occultist, and Summoner please. just a quick blurb of what they focus on with in their organization.

You are very welcome! :)

Bloodrager:
Enlightened Bloodragers are taught by Old-Mage Jatembe's methods to better control the raging magic within.

Magus:
Magic Warriors serve as exemplars of the original Magic Warriors who accompanied Old-Mage Jatembe. Sigilus join the Cyphermages and learne to incorporate rune magic into their weapons and armor.

Medium:
Storm Dreamers commune with the mystical predecessors of the Storm Kindlers and act as spiritual advisors for the group.

Occultist:
Curators search through relics gathered by the Aspis Consortium and find uses for them rather than leave them sitting on a shelf.

Summoner:
Devil Binders use the Hellknight philosophy of devils as challenges to be overcome and just take it to the next level by dominating them to use as tools and instruments of their will.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Got to sleep again...sorry...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thank you for all this Feros! :)

Liberty's Edge

Wow... this book is awesome. There's just... so much.... wow...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I like most of the book (finally got the pdfs this evening), but the nerfs to a couple PFS mainstays are kinda jarring to me.

Spoiler:
Ioun Stone Resonance (clear spindle in particular) and Lore Warden got nerfed HARD

Contributor

5 people marked this as a favorite.
technarken wrote:

I like most of the book (finally got the pdfs this evening), but the nerfs to a couple PFS mainstays are kinda jarring to me.

** spoiler omitted **

Personally, I think the new lore warden is better. Not only does it no longer have some obviously garrulous trades, but it actually gives you choices in when you get the lore warden's abilities. It's like a built-in archetype-unique advanced armor training option.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Not only does it no longer have some obviously garrulous trades,

If an archetype no longer has a garrulous trade in a forest, who is there to tell you about it?


I'm assuming it won't be some of the people that didn't like reprints.

Liberty's Edge

Why do I keep seeing people mentioning the PDFs? It says PDFs aren't available until May 31. Can someone confirm if it is already available please?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Coinshot Colton wrote:
Why do I keep seeing people mentioning the PDFs? It says PDFs aren't available until May 31. Can someone confirm if it is already available please?

Subscribers to book lines (this is in the Pathfinder RPG line, others are the Player Companions, Campaign Settings, Adventure Paths, etc.) get a free PDF as soon as their physical copy ships. That process usually starts about two weeks before the street date and continues for a week or so.

The people with PDFs are subscribers who came up early in the shipping queue. If you're not a subscriber you can't buy the PDF until the listed date of May 31.


Coinshot Colton wrote:
Why do I keep seeing people mentioning the PDFs? It says PDFs aren't available until May 31. Can someone confirm if it is already available please?

Subscribers get their PDFs when their copies ship. They ship early, timed to arrive by the public release day.


I don't mind the reprints as much as I thought I would. The nerfs, though, are where I feel a bit more uneasy.


technarken wrote:

I like most of the book (finally got the pdfs this evening), but the nerfs to a couple PFS mainstays are kinda jarring to me.

** spoiler omitted **

What happened to the clear spindle?


1) Has someone posted the whole index of contents yet? Can someone do that?

2) What does the Armiger get? Oh, I bet they get Smite Chaos as a class feature that stacks with the Hellknight prestige class' Smite Chaos! :)


Can you say anything about the Grey Maiden PrC and Vigilante Archetype? Thanks so much.


Abraham Z. wrote:
technarken wrote:

I like most of the book (finally got the pdfs this evening), but the nerfs to a couple PFS mainstays are kinda jarring to me.

** spoiler omitted **

What happened to the clear spindle?

Spoiler:
Clear Spindle now provides one CL 12 'Protection from Alignment' per day. If you want to actually use it as a counter for a dominate or charm you can activate it as an immediate action...which burns the stone out permanently. At least the book also contains Suppress Charms And Compulsiond...

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Would love to hear more about the Red Mantis Alchemist. Also, really glad the PrC makes the Sawtooth Sabre finessable. Quite the nice addition.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

*grumbling*

Second level spell to shut down psychic spell casters for anywhere from twelve hours to a day per level. I like psychic spellcasting, but it'd be nice to have spells keep it in mind for balance purposes.

Sovereign Court

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Ioun stone resonance:
To be completely honest... I can understand why "total immunity to mind control for 4,500 gp" got shut down. That's a big slice of mind blank at a very low price.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Emily D. wrote:
Can you say anything about the Grey Maiden PrC and Vigilante Archetype? Thanks so much.

The PrC is what I would call a great spell-less Antipaladin option.

The vigilante archetype changes the thematic of the vigilante identity from a voluntary costume swap to an involuntary debuff of sorts. It oozes flavor, and I love it.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So just got done looking through the book. Gotta say. Less than impressed with it. It doesn't have any archetypes which I consider very cool or innovative and many of them are just reprints.

A book that I wasn't really looking forward to was this months player companion but man does it have some fun options. So at least there's that.


Kalindlara wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Now we just need them to hit the raging enhancement with a nerfbat :3


Alexander Augunas wrote:
technarken wrote:

I like most of the book (finally got the pdfs this evening), but the nerfs to a couple PFS mainstays are kinda jarring to me.

** spoiler omitted **

Personally, I think the new lore warden is better. Not only does it no longer have some obviously garrulous trades, but it actually gives you choices in when you get the lore warden's abilities. It's like a built-in archetype-unique advanced armor training option.

So given my name, I am a fan of the fighter, and as you have maybe seen on the paizo forums, there are many who believe the Fighter gets the short end of the stick. The Lore Warden had its ups and downs before, and it's sounding like it got pretty screwed. Many took the archetype so they could get combat expertise, because they hate the feat, and all the awful pre-reqs to do certain combat maneuvers. So all I'm getting is it got nerfed, and I find this to be upsetting, but you think it's better. Can you give me some details on why you think this, especially since I don't have access to the reprint.

Also, I've been excited over this book for awhile, and I have been a subscriber of companions in the past, but I have been disappointed. Hearing a hardcover has reprints, and especially a Lore Warden nerf as one of the archetypes really upsets me. Alone that I was excited for some fighter love and instead am hearing that it's kinda the opposite saddens me deeply.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
MYTHIC FEROS wrote:
Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
Did the Lanternbearers get much love?

I think so.

** spoiler omitted **

Thank you!

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Human Fighter wrote:
The Lore Warden had its ups and downs before, and it's sounding like it got pretty screwed. Many took the archetype so they could get combat expertise, because they hate the feat, and all the awful pre-reqs to do certain combat maneuvers. So all I'm getting is it got nerfed, and I find this to be upsetting, but you think it's better. Can you give me some details on why you think this, especially since I don't have access to the reprint.

My copy hasn't shipped yet, but you were previously told;

"You get the benefits of Combat Expertise for purpose of qualifying for other feats at 2nd level..."

So, given your statement that the primary reason for taking the class was to get Combat Expertise for pre-reqs... what exactly is the problem? You get the same benefit you were looking for at the same level it used to be.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
CBDunkerson wrote:
Human Fighter wrote:
The Lore Warden had its ups and downs before, and it's sounding like it got pretty screwed. Many took the archetype so they could get combat expertise, because they hate the feat, and all the awful pre-reqs to do certain combat maneuvers. So all I'm getting is it got nerfed, and I find this to be upsetting, but you think it's better. Can you give me some details on why you think this, especially since I don't have access to the reprint.

My copy hasn't shipped yet, but you were previously told;

"You get the benefits of Combat Expertise for purpose of qualifying for other feats at 2nd level..."

So, given your statement that the primary reason for taking the class was to get Combat Expertise for pre-reqs... what exactly is the problem? You get the same benefit you were looking for at the same level it used to be.

But "old" Lore Warden still got a bonus feat at 2nd. If the new version doesn't, that's not getting Combat Expertise for free. That's being forced to take Combat Expertise as your bonus feat (and not even getting the feat itself for another 4 levels, if you wanted to actually use it.)

I don't know about you, but my Lore Warden needs all the feats he can get. He's already got more maneuver-boosting feats on his wishlist than he has available slots, so losing one without a very good replacement is intolerable for him.

Dark Archive

Can anyone give me the rundown on the Armiger archetype?

Contributor

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Human Fighter wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
technarken wrote:

I like most of the book (finally got the pdfs this evening), but the nerfs to a couple PFS mainstays are kinda jarring to me.

** spoiler omitted **

Personally, I think the new lore warden is better. Not only does it no longer have some obviously garrulous trades, but it actually gives you choices in when you get the lore warden's abilities. It's like a built-in archetype-unique advanced armor training option.

So given my name, I am a fan of the fighter, and as you have maybe seen on the paizo forums, there are many who believe the Fighter gets the short end of the stick. The Lore Warden had its ups and downs before, and it's sounding like it got pretty screwed. Many took the archetype so they could get combat expertise, because they hate the feat, and all the awful pre-reqs to do certain combat maneuvers. So all I'm getting is it got nerfed, and I find this to be upsetting, but you think it's better. Can you give me some details on why you think this, especially since I don't have access to the reprint.

Also, I've been excited over this book for awhile, and I have been a subscriber of companions in the past, but I have been disappointed. Hearing a hardcover has reprints, and especially a Lore Warden nerf as one of the archetypes really upsets me. Alone that I was excited for some fighter love and instead am hearing that it's kinda the opposite saddens me deeply.

I'd be happy to answer this for you, but I feel like I also need to talk about what made the old LW problematic from a design standpoint.

1) It was not future-proofed well. The old archetype gave all INT skills as class skills shortly before we started seeing a bunch of X to INT traits (like the ones in Ultimate Campaign). As written, LW would let you take traits like that and instantly give you more class skills.

2) It broke a lot of design conventions. For example, it replaced armor training, a relatively weak utility ability, for a massive scaling +2 bonus on all combat maneuvers that stacked with the fighter's weapon training, for a total bonus of +11 at high levels. Effectively, it traded a weak defense for the best maneuver-based offense in the game. And with the bravery Trade, you effectively traded a scaling trait for a scaling feat. Desirable, but not balanced.

So, as for the new archetype.

You trade bravery and the 2nd level bonus feat for the ability to count as having Combat Expertise for feat prerequisites and 2nd level, and at "bravery increase levels" you get more mileage out of your Combat Expertise feat. Then whenever you would have gained an armor training increase, you instead pick one of the old lore warden class features that you qualify for and get it. (Instead of the huge maneuver bonus, you can take a brawler's maneuver training, which is much better balanced.)

This causes for some cool builds, like picking up Know thy enemy at Level 3. Not everything can be picked up right away (there are level requirements) and it is still a VERY generous archetype in my opinion. It is simply toned down, rather than nerfed into the ground.

Contributor

shaventalz wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
Human Fighter wrote:
The Lore Warden had its ups and downs before, and it's sounding like it got pretty screwed. Many took the archetype so they could get combat expertise, because they hate the feat, and all the awful pre-reqs to do certain combat maneuvers. So all I'm getting is it got nerfed, and I find this to be upsetting, but you think it's better. Can you give me some details on why you think this, especially since I don't have access to the reprint.

My copy hasn't shipped yet, but you were previously told;

"You get the benefits of Combat Expertise for purpose of qualifying for other feats at 2nd level..."

So, given your statement that the primary reason for taking the class was to get Combat Expertise for pre-reqs... what exactly is the problem? You get the same benefit you were looking for at the same level it used to be.

But "old" Lore Warden still got a bonus feat at 2nd. If the new version doesn't, that's not getting Combat Expertise for free. That's being forced to take Combat Expertise as your bonus feat (and not even getting the feat itself for another 4 levels, if you wanted to actually use it.)

I don't know about you, but my Lore Warden needs all the feats he can get. He's already got more maneuver-boosting feats on his wishlist than he has available slots, so losing one without a very good replacement is intolerable for him.

New lore warden counts as having CE at 2nd, and actually gets CE at 6th. (If they already have CE at that point, they get a different feat that lists CE as a prerequisite instead.) It is down one feat compared to old lore warden, but it is a necessary trade off for how strong the armor trading trades are.


Does the Magus archetype for the Cypher Mage's change the magus spell list to allow then to specialize like a Thasillonian mage ?


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
1) It was not future-proofed well. The old archetype gave all INT skills as class skills shortly before we started seeing a bunch of X to INT traits (like the ones in Ultimate Campaign). As written, LW would let you take traits like that and instantly give you more class skills.

I don't really have much to weigh in on regarding this, but I wanted to point out that this statement is wrong; that's not how the stat replacer traits work, nor how lore warden works.

Per the FAQ on these abilities, "this changes the check only at the time of rolling, so this does not change static class features or options made during character building such as your class’s class skills." It then goes on to call out the lore warden's wording as something that that sentence applies to. So, while I'll agree that the lore warden ability might lead to some confusion thanks to how it's worded, it doesn't actually work the way you've stated, as-written.

I'd hope that the rewrite is more about adjusting the wording to match the rules, rather than nerfing it based on this...


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Human Fighter wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
technarken wrote:

I like most of the book (finally got the pdfs this evening), but the nerfs to a couple PFS mainstays are kinda jarring to me.

** spoiler omitted **

Personally, I think the new lore warden is better. Not only does it no longer have some obviously garrulous trades, but it actually gives you choices in when you get the lore warden's abilities. It's like a built-in archetype-unique advanced armor training option.

So given my name, I am a fan of the fighter, and as you have maybe seen on the paizo forums, there are many who believe the Fighter gets the short end of the stick. The Lore Warden had its ups and downs before, and it's sounding like it got pretty screwed. Many took the archetype so they could get combat expertise, because they hate the feat, and all the awful pre-reqs to do certain combat maneuvers. So all I'm getting is it got nerfed, and I find this to be upsetting, but you think it's better. Can you give me some details on why you think this, especially since I don't have access to the reprint.

Also, I've been excited over this book for awhile, and I have been a subscriber of companions in the past, but I have been disappointed. Hearing a hardcover has reprints, and especially a Lore Warden nerf as one of the archetypes really upsets me. Alone that I was excited for some fighter love and instead am hearing that it's kinda the opposite saddens me deeply.

I'd be happy to answer this for you, but I feel like I also need to talk about what made the old LW problematic from a design standpoint.

1) It was not future-proofed well. The old archetype gave all INT skills as class skills shortly before we started seeing a bunch of X to INT traits (like the ones in Ultimate Campaign). As written, LW would let you take traits like that and instantly give you more class skills.

2) It broke a lot of design conventions. For example, it replaced armor training, a relatively weak utility ability, for a...

I don't think this ruins the Lore Warden, but it was basically the only thing that made a CMB centric build good for late game, especially for non-weapon using maneuvers, and seeing it getting nerfed hurts a lot. I mean I think you of all people can admit the Fighter needs all the help it can get as both the author of a lot of the Weapon Master's Handbook and the highly rated Unchained Fighter (and expansion), so seeing something like this happen just makes me feel like Paizo wants to leave the fighter behind because harming one of the most well known archetypes for it for CMB builds just makes me sad.


Forrestfire wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
1) It was not future-proofed well. The old archetype gave all INT skills as class skills shortly before we started seeing a bunch of X to INT traits (like the ones in Ultimate Campaign). As written, LW would let you take traits like that and instantly give you more class skills.

I don't really have much to weigh in on regarding this, but I wanted to point out that this statement is wrong; that's not how the stat replacer traits work, nor how lore warden works.

Per the FAQ on these abilities, "this changes the check only at the time of rolling, so this does not change static class features or options made during character building such as your class’s class skills." It then goes on to call out the lore warden's wording as something that that sentence applies to. So, while I'll agree that the lore warden ability might lead to some confusion thanks to how it's worded, it doesn't actually work the way you've stated, as-written.

I'd hope that the rewrite is more about adjusting the wording to match the rules, rather than nerfing it based on this...

It just lists out the bonus class skills now. You even still spend ranks on Int-based skills in general.


I'm sad to hear Supress Charms and Compulsions, the most overpowered spell below 8h level, got a reprint. Is it at least nerfed or is it still an auto nope to all effects, no matter how powerful?

Panicking Mythic Hero: "Oh no, Nocticula has dominated our normally mind affecting immune Empyreal Lord ally!"

3rd Level Wizard Follower: "Hold my beer."


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
QuidEst wrote:
Forrestfire wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
1) It was not future-proofed well. The old archetype gave all INT skills as class skills shortly before we started seeing a bunch of X to INT traits (like the ones in Ultimate Campaign). As written, LW would let you take traits like that and instantly give you more class skills.

I don't really have much to weigh in on regarding this, but I wanted to point out that this statement is wrong; that's not how the stat replacer traits work, nor how lore warden works.

Per the FAQ on these abilities, "this changes the check only at the time of rolling, so this does not change static class features or options made during character building such as your class’s class skills." It then goes on to call out the lore warden's wording as something that that sentence applies to. So, while I'll agree that the lore warden ability might lead to some confusion thanks to how it's worded, it doesn't actually work the way you've stated, as-written.

I'd hope that the rewrite is more about adjusting the wording to match the rules, rather than nerfing it based on this...

It just lists out the bonus class skills now. You even still spend ranks on Int-based skills in general.

Doesn't that just make it LESS future-proofed now? Like, for example, in the crazy and completely not-possible situation of a new game that's backwards-compatible with PF but has a new set of skills available and boasts the ability to convert characters back and forth, keeping "gets all Int-based skills as class skills" works forever, while saying "gets these specific skills which may not exist in a purely hypothetical science fiction setting" doesn't.

Or even if someone adds a new skill. Are Lore and Artistry counted among the Lore Warden's skills now? They should be. But probably not, since Unchained is something that tends to be forgotten outside of the Companions.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alchemaic wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Forrestfire wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
1) It was not future-proofed well. The old archetype gave all INT skills as class skills shortly before we started seeing a bunch of X to INT traits (like the ones in Ultimate Campaign). As written, LW would let you take traits like that and instantly give you more class skills.

I don't really have much to weigh in on regarding this, but I wanted to point out that this statement is wrong; that's not how the stat replacer traits work, nor how lore warden works.

Per the FAQ on these abilities, "this changes the check only at the time of rolling, so this does not change static class features or options made during character building such as your class’s class skills." It then goes on to call out the lore warden's wording as something that that sentence applies to. So, while I'll agree that the lore warden ability might lead to some confusion thanks to how it's worded, it doesn't actually work the way you've stated, as-written.

I'd hope that the rewrite is more about adjusting the wording to match the rules, rather than nerfing it based on this...

It just lists out the bonus class skills now. You even still spend ranks on Int-based skills in general.

Doesn't that just make it LESS future-proofed now? Like, for example, in the crazy and completely not-possible situation of a new game that's backwards-compatible with PF but has a new set of skills available and boasts the ability to convert characters back and forth, keeping "gets all Int-based skills as class skills" works forever, while saying "gets these specific skills which may not exist in a purely hypothetical science fiction setting" doesn't.

Or even if someone adds a new skill. Are Lore and Artistry counted among the Lore Warden's skills now? They should be. But probably not, since Unchained is something that tends to be forgotten outside of the Companions.

Not so, remember that Pathfinder Unchained states here:

Quote:
Any class that gains Craft or Perform as a class skill also counts Artistry as a class skill. Lore is always considered a class skill for all characters.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Curse you Luthorne, I just got back here from looking it up XD


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Luthorne wrote:
Alchemaic wrote:

Doesn't that just make it LESS future-proofed now? Like, for example, in the crazy and completely not-possible situation of a new game that's backwards-compatible with PF but has a new set of skills available and boasts the ability to convert characters back and forth, keeping "gets all Int-based skills as class skills" works forever, while saying "gets these specific skills which may not exist in a purely hypothetical science fiction setting" doesn't.

Or even if someone adds a new skill. Are Lore and Artistry counted among the Lore Warden's skills now? They should be. But probably not, since Unchained is something that tends to be forgotten outside of the

Not so, remember that Pathfinder Unchained states here:

Quote:
Any class that gains Craft or Perform as a class skill also counts Artistry as a class skill. Lore is always considered a class skill for all characters.

Huh, never noticed that line.

Alright, so I was wrong on that specific point. And the rest of it?


Which of the old Prestige Classes are reprinted exactly the same?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

I'm sad to hear Supress Charms and Compulsions, the most overpowered spell below 8h level, got a reprint. Is it at least nerfed or is it still an auto nope to all effects, no matter how powerful?

Panicking Mythic Hero: "Oh no, Nocticula has dominated our normally mind affecting immune Empyreal Lord ally!"

3rd Level Wizard Follower: "Hold my beer."

Heh. :)

_____

On a more serious note, though, I think Suppress Charms and Compulsions is better balanced (and significantly less powerful) than (say) the Protection from Evil line. To compare the two:

1. It doesn't last nearly as long. (10 minutes, instead of 10 minutes/level.)

2. It doesn't offer immunity while up; instead, it just offers a bonus on saves. (Unlike Protection from Evil, which you can just put up and then just ignore the existence of charms and the like.)

3. It does have the ability to automatically suppress charms and compulsions a character is currently under for the allotted time, but it's reactive only. So (a) if the person effected is the spellcaster who could cast it, you're out of luck (making them the natural targets), (b) if the fighter gets dominated, they'll still often have a turn to act (to devastating effect), (c) without a successful spellcraft check, the party might not even know they're been dominated until they've acted (to devastating effect), and (d) in the best case scenario, where it's cast on the fighter and the spellcasters make the spellcraft check, it still requires the caster to spend their round countering the effect instead of doing something more effective (assuming the caster has the spell memorized, and doesn't need to spend a while digging through their backpack for the scroll), unlike Protection from Evil, which you can put up ahead of time, and doesn't even cost you action economy.

So all in all, I think Suppress Charms and Compulsions is a much less disruptive spell than the Protection from Evil line.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
New lore warden counts as having CE at 2nd, and actually gets CE at 6th. (If they already have CE at that point, they get a different feat that lists CE as a prerequisite instead.) It is down one feat compared to old lore warden, but it is a necessary trade off for how strong the armor trading trades are.

I'm going to try and reserve most judgement until I read the changes fully, but this sounds like the changes are being made based on a much older view of the Fighter where the levels where Armor Training/Weapon Training/Bravery were gained were viewed as effectively dead levels. In that case yes, Lore Warden is too strong because it trades out a bad class feature for one that people will actually use (although I'll point out that if you're going for CMB then you need all the bonuses you can get because a lot of combat maneuvers become incredibly difficult or literally impossible to perform at higher levels, when the +11 would come into existence). But, because of the Armor/Weapon Master's Handbooks, that paradigm has changed. Now Armor Training, Weapon Training, and Bravery are class features that you actually need to think long and hard about trading out, and I've personally started avoiding archetypes altogether (including the Lore Warden) because of the trades. Now it's less that the Lore Warden is too good compared to the base Fighter, and more that the Lore Warden is at a good level of balance and the other archetypes need to be buffed.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
QuidEst wrote:

*grumbling*

Second level spell to shut down psychic spell casters for anywhere from twelve hours to a day per level. I like psychic spellcasting, but it'd be nice to have spells keep it in mind for balance purposes.

...wait. "Shut down"? "Twelve hours to a day per level"? Did the spell just get a massive upgrade?!

(The old Suppress Charms and Compulsions spell worked like Remove Fear, but against charms and compulsions instead of fear. So it had a flat non-scaling 10 minute duration, offered a +4 morale bonus against charms and compulsions, and suppressed currently active charms and compulsions for the duration of the spell.)


MYTHIC FEROS wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:
MYTHIC FEROS wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:
What factions get the Alchemist, Bloodrager, Brawler, Hunter, Magus, Medium, Occultist, Spiritualist, Summoner, Vigilante, and Warpriest archetypes.
Thank you so much. Can you provide more info on The Bloodrager, Magus, Medium, Occultist, and Summoner please. just a quick blurb of what they focus on with in their organization.

You are very welcome! :)

** spoiler omitted **

Thanks again!

I have a few more character ideas after this. I'll pick it up when the pdf becomes available


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Porridge wrote:
QuidEst wrote:

*grumbling*

Second level spell to shut down psychic spell casters for anywhere from twelve hours to a day per level. I like psychic spellcasting, but it'd be nice to have spells keep it in mind for balance purposes.

...wait. "Shut down"? "Twelve hours to a day per level"? Did the spell just get a massive upgrade?!

(The old Suppress Charms and Compulsions spell worked like Remove Fear, but against charms and compulsions instead of fear. So it had a flat non-scaling 10 minute duration, offered a +4 morale bonus against charms and compulsions, and suppressed currently active charms and compulsions for the duration of the spell.)

He's not referring to suppress charms and compulsions, but I believe to haunting reminder.

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