Lemartes |
I've come to understand that in a bestiary rules and options are the main subject, while the description section is more part of the "were you can use it" subject. As Mr. Jacobs said, the names and the text for dragons are already enough for the purpose of a bestiary, and I dare to say that even their rules/abilities can be taken into consideration for setting purpose. We can save the "flavor text" for other books (even Planes of Power gave us this "fluff" =P we desired for the primal dragons, and it isn't even a book focused on dragons).
That said, I'm far more interested in the CR of the dragons in Bestiary 6. In fact, I'm curious about the average challenge rating of the book, not only for the dragons. I'm really excited about this bestiary mainly because it suggests that we are getting a really good number of high level foes - with deities and epic foes such as Krampus.
But as a dragon lover, I can't deny that they are in my top priority (alongside the fey and magic beasts).
I think I missed it but what are these new dragons?
Rysky |
The Gold Sovereign wrote:I think I missed it but what are these new dragons?I've come to understand that in a bestiary rules and options are the main subject, while the description section is more part of the "were you can use it" subject. As Mr. Jacobs said, the names and the text for dragons are already enough for the purpose of a bestiary, and I dare to say that even their rules/abilities can be taken into consideration for setting purpose. We can save the "flavor text" for other books (even Planes of Power gave us this "fluff" =P we desired for the primal dragons, and it isn't even a book focused on dragons).
That said, I'm far more interested in the CR of the dragons in Bestiary 6. In fact, I'm curious about the average challenge rating of the book, not only for the dragons. I'm really excited about this bestiary mainly because it suggests that we are getting a really good number of high level foes - with deities and epic foes such as Krampus.
But as a dragon lover, I can't deny that they are in my top priority (alongside the fey and magic beasts).
I think they're planar.
Plausible Pseudonym |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Thank you sir. :)
Hmm planar eh? So astral, abyssal, positive energy etc? Those could be neat!
I really like the outer dragons especially the time dragons.
Common speculation is that they are either NE/NG/CN/LN/N (with some wiggle room for the non N guys to slide to adjacent ones) or LG/LE/CG/CE/N. I'd bet on the former.
Kalindlara Contributor |
10 people marked this as a favorite. |
In addition to what others have said: just comparing a Paizo monster's Bestiary entry to its original printing (such as in an AP), I've almost always found that the flavor adds a lot to the monster.
World-neutralizing existing monsters also opens them up to appear in places that are... canonically weird (such as the Whispering Tyrant's gallowdead showing up in Hell).
The Gold Sovereign |
I am hoping the new 5 dragon's alignments are more like NE/NG/CN/LN/N but you never know.
I remember when I first read the monster manual from 2nd ed D&D and that got my imagination going.
This leaves me thinking about how much would a LG and LE version of the "Lawful Dragon" differ from one another, as outsiders/extraplanar beings are highly affected by tgeir alignment and plane of origin - even their appearance may change.
I'm really excited with the addition of extraplanar dragons to the outer planes.
Berselius |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
AlgaeNymph wrote:So, Paizo, while we're waiting, is it still too early for any information on who the empyreal lords're going to be?And fine... in an attempt to soothe things over regarding the delay... the following three Empyreal Lords are statted up in this book, and are listed in order of power, with the first being the highest CR and the last being the lowest CR of the three...
Arshea
Black Butterfly
RagathielHope that revelation doesn't make folks angrier than it does make them happier! :-P
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !
Berselius |
6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Dragon78 wrote:Actually they are outer planar based. We do not know what they called as a group or the name of each type.This one's Snuffles, that one is Cuddles, that's Waffles, over there is Sparkles, and then we have Floofylord.
Rysky? You brighten my day. (hugs) THANK YOU! :D
Also, while Floofylord loves his name, he actually prefers to be called STORMAGEDDON, DARK LORD OF ALL! ;)
The Gold Sovereign |
James Jacobs wrote:EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !AlgaeNymph wrote:So, Paizo, while we're waiting, is it still too early for any information on who the empyreal lords're going to be?And fine... in an attempt to soothe things over regarding the delay... the following three Empyreal Lords are statted up in this book, and are listed in order of power, with the first being the highest CR and the last being the lowest CR of the three...
Arshea
Black Butterfly
RagathielHope that revelation doesn't make folks angrier than it does make them happier! :-P
Well, while I'm happy to know Black Butterfly made it alongside my favorite, Ragathiel, that wasn't a surprise at all. I was almost sure they would. Unfortunately, no Archon...
BUT
Arshea stronger than the ancient Shadow Desna Black Butterfly and the angry Celestial Fiend General of Vendetta??? I need to read more about the Spirit of Abandon...
I was thinking about something like: Black B. CR 30, Ragathiel CR 28 and other... (I was hoping for Damerrich CR 29). I'm pretty much satisfied to know who are the Empyreal Lords and that my two favorite made it.
PannicAtack |
PannicAtack wrote:Are any of the Great Old Ones reprints from Strange Aeons?No. Too soon for those to be reprinted. Also, most of them aren't public domain and are not open content as a result, and thus wouldn't be good choices to reprint in a Bestiary anyway.
So by the time this comes out we'll have twelve Great Old Ones. That'll lend itself to a lot of different mythos-inspired campaigns.
Marco Massoudi |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I know it's kind of a long shot, but I hope to see the Great Old Ones, Rhan-Tegoth and Yig. They were creations of H.P. Lovecraft, and to my knowledge, all of Lovecraft's Creatures are Public Domain.
On a separate note, I hope the conqueror worm is an aberration or a vermin.
I think the chances of the three Great Old Ones in this book including Rhan-Tegoth and Yig are 50/50.
Either these two are in it (along with another creature from HPL that has not being classified as a GOO before, according to JJ)or it´s gonna be Mhar and Orgesh, the two Paizo creations.
Personally i hope for the former (not that i don´t want to see the latter later).
A real shame that Chaugnar Faugn, the Horror from the Hills by Frank Belknap Long hasn´t been included in the strange Aeons bestiary section, because that is the only place Paizo had the rights to print it in.
Sandy Peterson´s Cthulhu for Pathfinder will be a must-buy when it gets available to non-kickstarter backers in print sometimes in 2017.
James Jacobs Creative Director |
6 people marked this as a favorite. |
I know it's kind of a long shot, but I hope to see the Great Old Ones, Rhan-Tegoth and Yig. They were creations of H.P. Lovecraft, and to my knowledge, all of Lovecraft's Creatures are Public Domain.
On a separate note, I hope the conqueror worm is an aberration or a vermin.
I wouldn't say either of those are a long shot at all, for precisely the reasons you note.
Rysky |
Rysky wrote:Dragon78 wrote:Actually they are outer planar based. We do not know what they called as a group or the name of each type.This one's Snuffles, that one is Cuddles, that's Waffles, over there is Sparkles, and then we have Floofylord.Rysky? You brighten my day. (hugs) THANK YOU! :D
Also, while Floofylord loves his name, he actually prefers to be called STORMAGEDDON, DARK LORD OF ALL! ;)
^w^
*nods*
Good catch.
Oliver Veyrac |
CBDunkerson wrote:Book of Fiends and Tome of Horrors both come to mind as books we've used more than Advanced Bestiary.James Jacobs wrote:We've used templates from that book from the beginning and continue to do so to this day.Yep, the Advanced Bestiary and Tome of Horrors get used in APs and for stat blocks in other places so much that they could nearly be considered part of the 'Pathfinder canon'. Can't think of any other 'third party' material which has been used as extensively by Paizo.
I am glad I looked here. I have 2 out of the 3. I am a huge fan of the advanced bestiary and the Tome of Horrors. Both are great books and I love the advanced bestiary as it can add some uniqueness while the Tome of Horrors is full of freakiness that my player's don't have access to. Off to click on add to cart for the Book of Fiends.
The Gold Sovereign |
Mr Jacobs did mention that some of the deities where never seen before...
Well, Kaijus are god like magical beasts, and dragons are already able to touch godhood, with the strongest great wyrm gold dragon ranking among the CR 27 creatures. Yet none of them are able to grant powers as true demigods. Another example is Baba Yaga, humanoid godlike being, but not a true god...
I'm trying to say that I would love to see true deities/demigods of the humanoid,magic beast and dragon type.
AmbassadoroftheDominion |
Magical Beasts also have the Spawn of Rovagug, as well as Kaiju, which, being the progeny of a true god would be classifiable as demigods in my opinion. I think Baba Yaga likes being the only humanoid demigod-level humanoid so far. gives her less opposition, and more room to resurrect Rasputin to wake the Seven Gods of Chaos.
As full deities, we do have Tiamat and Bahamut as Divine Dragons.
Weird Fiction has a lot of stories about Plant Gods, whose worshipers throw themselves as sacrifices into deep pits.
Oozes, though... Oh No! they were right, oozes are difficult to think up. you know the movie Evolution?
It is a lot more menacing than it sounds.
AmbassadoroftheDominion |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
the ones mentioned in the Elder Mythos article in Strange Aeons that are left to Stat are:
Chaugnar Faugn, Ghatanothoa, Mhar, Orgesh, Rhan-Tegoth, and Yig
of those, the authors of each are as follows, with author first:
H.P. Lovecraft (Primarily): Ghatanothoa, Rhan-Tegoth, and Yig
Frank Belknap Long: Chaugnar Faugn
Greg A. Vaughn: Mhar
Wolfgang Baur: Orgesh
I have refrained from mentioning other Names that I would love to see, since they are not mentioned in the Pathfinder Articles. That said, it all depends on who the last two Great Old Ones that get stats during the last Strange Aeons path. I didn't know there were going to be Three in this book, though. Where'd you find that out, Dragon?
The Gold Sovereign |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What deities Gold Sovereign, do you mean what demi-god level creatures will be in this book?
It was a long time ago, in a reply to Rysky, JJ said that some of the deities in this book were completely new, never seen before. We already have a completely new GOO that is an Outer God lesser incarnation, so I don't know what to expect...
The Gold Sovereign |
I have refrained from mentioning other Names that I would love to see, since they are not mentioned in the Pathfinder Articles. That said, it all depends on who the last two Great Old Ones that get stats during the last Strange Aeons path. I didn't know there were going to be Three in this book, though. Where'd you find that out, Dragon?
The GOOs from the last two volumes of Strange Aeons were already "revealed". Xhamen-Dor (confirmed) and probably Ghatanothoa (supported by JJ constant mentions of it in the comment section of the final chapter).
The Gold Sovereign |
Strangely, I had no debut that Ragathiel and Black Butterfly would make it into this Bestiary. I was expecting an Archon as well - Damerrich, Olheon or Tanagaar.
That said, I'm really curious about Arshea! She came as a surprise to me, specially because they have a higher CR than Black Butterfly, who is probably one of the oldest beings among the Empyreal Lords (or even in existence). I can't wait to read about Arshea's abilities and what class this angelic champion will simulate (probably bard).
I was aware that Ragathiel's CR would be around 26-28, as he is a newcomer, but I was almost sure Black Butterfly would get CR 30 and would be the strongest of the three. I guess "age" doesn't mean "power".
The Gold Sovereign |
Worth pointing out that Empyreal Lords are 21-30, not 26-30 (according to B4). They're not two-tiered like the fiendish demigods.
Sorry, but I can't find anything about their CR being 21-30. Could you please point the page? There's nothing on the opening page for the Empyreal Lords.
The Gold Sovereign |
I would think doing all the Archdevils and Horsemen in one book would make the inclusion of dukes and harbringers unlikely. After all that is a lot of page space to devote to devils and daemons, especially if you are including other CR 25+ creatures.
Indeed. We already counted 21 of those high9 CR two pagers, so we have 42 ages already taken. That a lot of space (and I'm happy about it XP).
Kalindlara Contributor |