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Legendary Villains: Vigilantes PDF

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Danger Lurks Behind the Mask!

Legendary Villains: Vigilantes brings you an incredible array of character options for taking the vigilante class for Pathfinder in a dastardly direction! Inside you’ll find 8 notorious new archetypes like the dread champion, fortune thief, protean prowler, and symbiotic slayer, perfect for making your vigilante a master of the malevolent, either as a vile villain striving against the PCs, or an amoral antihero willing to do whatever it takes to see justice—or vengeance—done! You will also find nearly 80 tantalizing talents, fantastic feats, and vigilante-focused magic items suitable for all vigilantes, plus the savage and unstoppable crimson dreadnought prestige class. Last but not least, you’ll find statistics for the dashing and deadly Red Love, a ready-to-use vigilante villain for your campaign to showcase the dirty tricks and devilish deeds you’ll find within! Grab this 40-page Pathfinder class product for vigilantes and Make Your Game Legendary!

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An Endzeitgeist.com review

4/5 —

This installment of the Legendary Villains-series clocks in at 40 pages, 1 page front cover, 1 page inside of front cover, 1 page editorial, 1 page SRD, 1 page ToC, 2 pages of introduction/how to use, 2 pages of advertisement, 1 page inside of back cover, 1 page back cover, leaving us with 29 pages of raw content, so let's take a look!

This was moved slightly up in my review queue as a non-prioritized review at the request of my patreons.

All right, let's begin with the new archetypes contained herein, the first of which would be the alchemical scoundrel, who gets a modified class skill list and reduced the skills gained per level to 4 + Intelligence modifier. They replace the vigilante talents gained at 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter (until 16th level) with the alchemist's alchemy ability as well as the infusion discovery and they may select alchemist discoveries in lieu of vigilante talents. The main meat here would be over 20 special discoveries here, several of which may be taken as alchemist discoveries. These include alchemical splash weapon damage upgrades when damaging a target for the first time. Note that I assume this to not apply to bombs, since they RAW are not defined as alchemical splash weapons. I arrive at this conclusion partially due to other discoveries, which allow the archetype to replace the fixed DC of regular alchemical items for a limited number of them and designate these items as breakthrough items with a scaling DC.

Gaining access to bombs and throw anything can be achieved via another talents. Bomb Tinkerer is not perfect - it allows the alchemical scoundrel to change the damage inflicted to "fire, ice, cold, electric or bludgeoning damage" - neither "electric", nor "ice" damage exist in PFRPG. Worse, when combined with a discovery that changes a bomb damage type, you can choose half one such predetermined one, and "one damage type of the alchemical scoundrel's choice" as the second. Problem here: This should refer to the available choices. RAW, it allows for free damage type selection. 8th and 12th level unlock sonic and force damage, both of which reduce bomb damage dice size, though. A feral mutagen variant that also enlarges, penalty-less cognatogen options or evolving mutagens, which grant limited access to unchained evolutions (OUCH) can be found. Personally, I'm partial to e.g. a false tooth for immediate action infusion access with scaling uses.

Gaining the master chymist's mutagenic form and mutate class feature has interesting interactions with identity-change, though personally, I'm not too big on granting PrC-signature abilities via regular class features. Interesting: Those that choose the mutagen can learn brute archetype's special talents, which makes sense - particularly since they only work will mutated. Nyehilists (puntastic!) can choose the true mutagen at 20th level. I am not a fan of quicker creation of mutagens, cognatogens, etc. - delimiting limited resources can get wonky in the long run.

I am also not the biggest fan of persistent mutagen as a discovery being a way to gain the class ability as soon as 12th level, as opposed to the alchemist's default 14th level. All in all, a crossover-archetype I would have expected in the hero-book...and one that I'm not that keen on.

Second would be the consumed vigilante, who replace their old identity and gain Nameless One as well as bonus hit points. Instead of social talents, they gain Skill Focus (okay, I guess) To make up for that, these guys do require less food, water and sleep to regain health, with higher levels further decreasing this. 3rd level nets renown, with 9th level unlocking greater renown and 15th level incredible renown, with the duration to acquire renown also reduced. 5th level provides a +2 bonus to Will-saves, which increases at higher levels and applies the bonus also to several negative conditions. As a complaint here: The bonus is once referred to as insight and once as morale, so which of the two is correct? 19th level greatly increases the difficulty to find out anything about the vigilante. Suffice to say, this archetype gets rid of the whole social talent-stuff.

Now the next one would be the first one I'd consider a villain archetype in theme, the dread champion, to be more precise. These guys must be evil in their vigilante identity, get an aura of evil, smite good, etc. - dread talents can unlock further abilities in that field...you guessed it, this guy is basically an antipaladin/vigilante crossover. It's generally a solid archetype.

The Fortune Thief gains access to a witch hex and when affecting a target with the hex, they gain a luck point, with Cha-mod acting as a cap for how many they can have. Cool: The ability actually is kitten-proof and cursing one's allies is also no reliable means of refreshing the pool. These points may be spent as a free action for skill-check bonuses or temporary boosts to atk and damage...yeah, this is somewhat luckbringer-like in style. The pool does per se not empty or replenish without this refreshing, but since this ability replaces vigilante specialization, the new talents the archetype receives can allow for minor regeneration of luck points while sleeping, Hex Strike to be added to non-unarmed melee weapons, passive benefits for holding on to luck points, longer bonuses and reflexive luck boosts that can negate crits or allow for attack and damage rerolls. All in all, the engine is REALLY cool...but e.g. savage hex causing untyped damage (should be typed) equal to class level on a successful save is something I'd strongly suggest typing. Nice: This one does get its own capstone.

We'll get delightfully disgusting next - the plague scion is locked into the stalker specialization and begins play with the antipaladin's plague bringer class ability. At 3rd level, the archetype gains a signature disease, which gains a scaling DC...and from here on out, the scion can add diseases contracted to this list, which is rather cool. 6th level and every 3 levels thereafter adds further diseases, with one being dominant. This replaces unshakable. 4th level yields plague strike, which connects Sleight of Hand and hidden strike with the infectious warfare they engage in to lace objects with their virulent strains...and this is actually pretty cool and limited uses prevent abuse! I like it! Higher levels yield frequency-increases for diseases, detecting the diseased, variant transmissions for signature diseases and, at higher levels, adding the ravaging template to those infested...oh, and at the top, we get magic-resistant diseases. Two thumbs up for this nasty villain!

The protean prowler is locked into a chaotic vigilante identity and replaces vigilante specialization with access to scaling unchained eidolon evolutions, which they may reassign Constitution modifier times per day - this process takes 1 minute and covers half the points - so two uses for complete reassigning. This pool can also alternatively be used to use evolution points to duplicate a scaling array of transformations, duplicating the effects of ever more potent spells. The process of investing the evolution points to affect these changes could have been worded slightly more concisely - as presented, I am not sure whether the evolution points required for the respective transformation are regained upon its end - I assume no, but "invest" does imply that in contrast to "spend"...

Anyways, onwards to the shadow savant, who replaces vigilante specialization with shadow clone, a duplicate they can generate as a standard action within 30 ft., a total of 1/2 class level + Cha-mod times per day. The Disguise check rolled as part of creating this clone is also the Perception DC required to notice that the clone is not actually real.. The clone lasts for Cha-mod rounds and has an AC of 10 + Dex-mod + Cha-mod +1/2 class level and vanishes on a successful hit. It is properly codified as an illusion [shadow] effect, so kudos there. The maximum distance it can travel from the savant is equal to 45 ft., +15 ft. per level. At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, the ability conjures forth an additional shadow, and when sharing the space with the savant, they duplicate mirror image's benefits. Only one use of the ability may be in effect at any given time and all shadows may be controlled with the same swift action - all in all a mechanically sound take on a very difficult concept to pull off. The archetype adds shadow control techniques to their arsenal of social talents, allowing for shadow control beyond line of sight, light-dimming, longer-lasting duplicates, control over the shape of the shadows, the ability to see through their eyes...and at higher levels, things become awesome and include swapping places - kudos, btw.: Codified as teleportation effect.

Beyond these, there also are tricks added to the vigilante talents, and, as you may have guessed, it is here that we find the more combat-centric options, which include partial reality, retributive negative energy damage (and at higher levels short-term staggers), Now, this becomes even more intriguing at 5th level, when 2 non-tangible shadows can be replaced with a semi-real doppelgänger that shares your non-limited-use abilities and also duplicates non-consumable magic items - it is really impressive to see this ability this waterproof and airtight - an excellent representation of what N. Jolly is capable of. The appearance-tree of abilities is then further replaced by upgrades of this doppelgänger ability-array, making for one of my favorite archetypes in the book: Mechanically-challenging, diverse, sporting a unique playstyle, this is a really inspired one. Kudos!

The symbiotic slayer would be one that I can't, in any shape, way or form, judge neutrally. When I was a little child, I already loved good villains more than heroes...and I will never forget the Spider-man comic with the glorious Todd McFarlane-cover of Venom holding Spidey's skull. It was #207 in Germany, not sure which one it was in the US. So...yeah, for a couple of years, I was a huge venom fanboy after that. This archetype gets a tiny ooze-like familiar (sans bite and with 0 speed, it's an aberration) - the vigilante identity is assumed quickly as a standard action and this cannot be hastened via the usual talents - the end-result, obviously, would be the vigilante identity. And yes, when under duress, the symbiote may force being used; it dies when the host dies, but can be rendered dormant, though the host can feed hp to it to wake it from slumber. Symbiotes have an ego and increase that ego, the longer they are manifested, representing rather well the Spidey-trope. Instead of the familiar's regular benefits, it acts as an armor for the host, has a telepathic bond...but also sports an elemental weakness.

The symbiote has a cool, linear progression and while I am not a fan of stalwart, at least the ability is gained at 11th level and only works while the symbiote is manifested. The archetype also gains several unique vigilante talents denoted by the [symbiote] tag: These include gaining natural attacks (properly codified!), duplicating armor...really cool. Cool alternative to fast healing: The buffering symbiote talent: It nets class level + Constitution modifier (twice Con-mod at 10th level) temporary hit points that recharge at a rate of 1 per minute while not manifested, + 1 regained per two symbiote talents possessed. Represents the concept, abuse-proof. Elegant solution. Interesting: Stealth-upgrade that may bypass automatic blindsight/sense-detection. Dual minds, reflexive acid is cool - gaining first Improved Grapple and then, at 6th level, also Strangle and at 10th level smother looks like a bit overkill for one talent, though: Strangle alone is very, very potent.

Increased reach, throwing a limited amount of times per day an entangling cluster at foes, temporary swift action fast healing with limited uses (thankfully), creating a duplicate living garments, reduced weakness, allowing the symbiote to gain control, resistance, burrowing, alchemical self-enhancements of physical ability scores (Str or Dex), flight (locked behind 6th level, gets better) and whip-like tendrils...as well as a proper capstone ability complement a thoroughly amazing archetype...and if you're like me and love venom/carnage etc., then this may well justify getting the pdf on its own.

The new social talents included herein allow for complete disjunction of social and vigilante identity (absolutely overdue!), being able to use skills that would need tools without them, gauging marks, being able to use a vigilante talent in social identity sans compromising either, Performance Weapon Mastery and a chameleon-style serial-killer talent that lets the vigilante assume the identities of the slain - some really, really cool stuff here.

We also gain a significant selection of new vigilante talents that range in power from cool and balanced to KILL IT WITH FIRE. Advanced Grip would be one such candidate I don't consider too necessary. +1/2 Str-bonus to damage with one-handed weapons and offhand attacks are treated as not-offhand for Power Attack purposes. This...just is a further number escalation and I can make fearsome sh** with it. Boon Companions, bonuses while bleeding, making nearby terrain count as difficult - all cool. There also is a talent many folks will hate: Know the famous spiked chain exploit from back in the 3.X-days? Well, the chain lasher talent unlocks that one again - attack both adjacent and at reach. Personally, I consider this cheesy and won't use it. Death Dealer is also problematic - it nets the assassin's death strike...and at 12th and 16th level, it reduces the number of rounds of study required. Oh, and with sniper, that becomes available at any range - explicitly. There also would be talent that stacks critical range with other critical range-increases, which can be really, really nasty - there is a reason that stuff does not stack usually. The multiplier may be reduced to x2 as a catch, but the threat-range is the issue. Cool on the other hand: Breaking the 6th level cap of spellcasting vigilante options. There also are a few nomenclature hiccups here - one punch assault once was probably once punch hero, as its follow-up talents calls it by that name. Gaining a panache pool and then, via another talent, access to deeds, is interesting. Gaining hair hexes, smashing foes in walls...there is some cools tuff here. If you've been using Legendary Swashbuckler or Assassin, you'll notice both of these being supported, which is nice.

Notice something? Yeah, they really oscillate in power and utility. WILDLY. I'll return to that aspect later in the conclusion.

The pdf also sports feats, some of which add e.g. more shadows for the shadow savant, modified spellcasting, reduced symbiote ego, more social talents, using Int or Wis as governing attributes, hidden strike and sneak attack synergy...cool. However, I do have an issue with Injected Infusions: Why? Because it lets you inject mutagens and infusions in allies...which is once again a number-escalation. Modifying symbiote weakness is cool...buuut: Adding hidden strike/sneak attack to splash weapons targeted at foes at -1 damage die size is either solid or brutal. I assume that the bonus is supposed to not apply to splash damage? Once again, this felt a bit weird.

Part II of my review can be found here!

I can't think of a cool title for my review so...

5/5 —

DISCLAIMER: This review is based on a free PDF provided by the author and the publisher, which in no way had an influence on the final score.

Legendary Villains: Vigilantes is Legendary Game’s antagonist entry for the Vigilante class, which first appeared in Ultimate Intrigue. Like all LGs products, this one has excellent electronic features (for the pdf), and awesome art! While this book has “Villains” in its name, very little content is restricted to evil characters, so you can play a standard or anti-hero.

What’s inside? 29 pages of content, which include:
-8 archetypes: Alchemical scoundrels borrow a lot from alchemists, being able to do most things that an alchemist can (infusions, mutagens, bombs), but of course not as well and, unlike most hybrid-y archetypes, this one does NOT replace your specialization!; Consumed Vigilantes lose their dual identities and shy away from social talents, instead focusing on their other abilities; Dread Champions are the antipaladins of the vigilante world, which meshes extremely well with their dual identity ability; Fortune Thieves are cool, getting a luck pool that fills when opponents save against their hexes, and yes, that means they get some hex-like abilities from witches!; Plague Scions are truly vile, infecting opponents with a variety of diseases; Protean Prowlers also borrow cool toys, but not from a class, but from a “pet”, being able to evolve and morph like eidolons!; Shadow Savants can clone themselves using shadow stuff, making for a truly intriguing a sneaky opponent (or character); Symbiotic Slayers get a symbiote a-la-Venom, which make them not only the most innovative of the archetypes but also the one with the most potential!
-10 New Villainous Social Talents, giving access to cool, evocative abilities that you may have seen somewhere. Some give you a bonus feat or two and some borrow abilities from other classes. Only 2 feel really villainous though. It is worth mentioning that one borrows abilities from the Legendary Assassins book by the same publisher, so unless you have that one… it is only one, though. My favorite here is Unbound Ethics, which is a goldmine of NPC building for a Game Master within a single talent!
-36 Villainous Vigilante Talents, which again don’t feel like too villainous IMHO. Some give you one or two (sometimes 3!) feats, or abilities from other classes. Unlike the companion volume (Legendary Vigilantes), this offer more varied options. I found a glitch though, The Magic Killer talent refers to the Imperial Archetypes book, which I think it should refer to Asian Archetypes: Martial (another excellent book which I also reviewed).
-20 Villainous Vigilante Feats, which like the talent sections, include more varied content than in the companion volume. Also, many feats here can be chosen by non-vigilantes!
-1 Prestige Class: The Crimson Dreadnought is a short (5 levels) but cool PrC. BAMF, perfect as the right hand of another powerful villain. They are very hard to control or kill! They also give a slight Darth Vadder vibe!
-Vigilante Variant Multiclass: This one is crazy good when taking into account the power of talents. It is also an excellent way of playing a Vigilante-light character using a non-standard character class.
-3 Villainous Magical Items, with one being exclusive to characters with the Mystic Bolt class feature. The other two feel more villain-y to me, and they have a cool option to be better in the hands of characters with dual identities. There is a small edit glitch in the False Friend Gloves entry, saying “reach” instead of “each” in the pricing section.
-1 NPC Villain: Kareena Ratika/Red Love, a Symbiotic Slayer vigilante who has ties with the NPC found in the companion volume. The build is nice, going as far as having a sound escape plan. You can see the character depicted on the cover, giving her a nice Carnage (from Marvel comics) vibe. As is the author’s tradition, this NPC includes a nice backstory and a boon!

Of Note: This book has a lot going on for it. It gives not only Game Masters but also players a vast amount of content, increasing the type of vigilantes they can make. The archetypes, while some being hybrid-y, are very flavorful. The vigilante class feels very “Gestalt” as it is, so adding other classes to the mix is genius! This is particularly true for the variant multi-classing rules!

Anything wrong?: Some of the borrowing talents make you better than the original class, which can be an issue if a vigilante uses one talent to gain 3 feats worth of abilities with just one talent while another party member has to spend all three feat slots. Also, while not exactly a “wrong” aspect of the book, few of the options in the book are vile and villainous, which one may hope to find inside this product line.

What cool things did this inspire?: A hobgoblin samurai crimson dreadnought as the sub-boss (or accompanying the main boss) of a military invasion by hobs. A dread (from Ultimate Psionics by Dream Scarred Press) with the variant vigilante multiclass, having a Scarecrow (from Batman comics) as the inspiration. A jackal-headed (or vulture, or both) rakshasa with the plague scion archetype as a high-level adversary in one of the campaigns I am planning.

Do I recommend it? Yeah! In fact, this book is so stacked with content that I would recommend it over the companion volume if you can only afford one. 5 full ninja stars!

A few design choices off from perfect!

4/5 —

Barring a few questionable design choices, this book IS solid.

Watch my full review here: https://youtu.be/TLgifvEK-VM

A truly "Legendary" Menagerie of Character Options

5/5 —

First off, Red Love is an amazing NPC and I look forward to using her in a campaign hopefully in the near future. She performs her role as Iconic flawlessly, tying the book together by leading you on through her descent into madness and violence and wrapping up the book with her terrifying stat block.

The art is succinct, stylish, and truly conveys the horror that she embodies. Her stat block is not so optimized that an unprepared party will be slaughtered, but she has some very defined combat niches and she uses them adeptly - beware her blinded condition!

Next, we have the Symbiotic Slayer - notable because of how versatile it is! I believe it is worth mentioning as other guides have misunderstood, you control your familiar - and thus you control your character when your Symbiote takes dominance. It is instead, a second character to explore. Of course, there are feats that make it so you can reduce the ego if you do not wish to have it be a bother. But the talents are so diverse!

You can make very respectable versions of many symbiotes such as Carnage or Venom. Something I want to bring up and remind people, is that Weapon Master’s Handbook brought with it weapon creation rules - so if you wanted ‘attached’ weapons more potent than the (spiked) gauntlet, it is only a single Design Point away.

The Protean Prowler has a special place in my heart, because they fulfill a niche I have long been waiting to utilize - an Eidolon style PC without the trappings of the flawed Summoner class. Mister N. Jolly has outdone himself here, as you can truly feel like a Protean with these effects underway - changing form and function as it suits you day by day with a generous number of ‘recustomizations’ per day.

Of course, those who adore Polymorphing can just as readily explore a true wealth of transmutation options or even use them to create a conjoined whole of Eidolon evolutions accenting a base template. Unless your DM is unusually strict, you should be able to describe your new form as you please - I hope to see some more reviews talking about what people have come up with!

Then we have the Shadow Savant, a unique subclass that can be strongly likened to Zed from League of Legends. However, with the greater freedom in designing abilities the kit is taken to its logical extreme and the result is amazing.

You have quite a few options to work with here, from being a faux shadow-evoker to using your shadows to distract, or even fighting alongside increasingly real shadow clones who gain improving action economy.

I won’t lie to anyone, I am a huge fan of N. Jolly’s work... But this book goes above and beyond anything I have expected! I feel this book has more than earned its five star rating, and invite anyone who is on the fence about it to pay the cost of admission - I will frankly guarantee that any fan of the Vigilante will find more than a few things to utilize here.

It's good to be the bad guy!

5/5 —

This book had a lot of options that my players and I have wanted to see, and you can see a lot of creativity in what's included. Favorite probably had to be Shadow Savant for a real fun shadowmancer style character. The new vigilante talents opened up a ton of options too, I really liked Rip and Tear for basically helping to use a chainsaw on a stick with the ripsaw glaive. Finally the sample character and flavor text were awesome, and really helped draw me into the book, making it a great purchase, especially if you picked up Legendary Vigilantes.

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"symbiotic slayer"? You have my attention.
Silver Crusade
4 people marked this as a favorite.

I've been waiting a while for this one, now this was the continuation of the content I wrote for the first book. There's a lot of stuff that I really liked in here, and I can say I enjoyed this book more than the previous one by a good bit.

Alchemical Scoundrel
Having gone through a name change, this was one that I liked just because I really like alchemist. It basically strips away the normal talents for spellcasting, and adds a few unique ones to your list. It's unique in that it's the only casting archetype I've seen that lets you keep specialization, which can make for one hell of a combination with other archetypes.

Consumed Vigilante
Now this one was suggested by someone on the playtest, and it was a lot of fun figuring out how to make it work. The idea of a vigilante who's slowly consumed by their own identity was a great concept, and works well for people who both don't want social talents or a second identity, giving the class's basic premise an interesting tweak.

Dread Champion
After last book's noble scion, the dread champion was basically guaranteed. Having a non CE antipaladin option for a lot of people was something that I felt was needed, and the more versatile smite you can get along with other cool options really helped make this feel unique.

Fortune Thief
The inspiration for this archetype is a seeeeeeeekret, but it was originally from another project that I wanted to use. The idea of stealing luck just seems so cool to me, and it has a very strong feel of the old luck feats from Complete Scoundrel to it as well as giving you a way to power them.

Plague Scion
A specific request for this book, the plague scion does the best you can at making disease more viable on the player's end, adding in tons of tricks like making it appear to be poison, increasing the speed at which it infects/damages, and allowing you to create your own pandemic within hours.

Protean Prowler
We all want shape changers, and this is the archetype that lets you play that protean character that we've all been needing. You can either shift yourself with eidolon evolutions or completely change your form as though using spells, and if you play it right, you can do both at the same time!

Shadow Savant
Shadow clones and teleportation along with impersonating others and jumping through shadows. Hell, you can even emulate any shadow spell around, making you a faux mage. Really, this is what I think is the best way to play both a shadow dancer style character and other shadow related concepts.

Symbiotic Slayer
Probably the most complex but also the most interesting archetype, you get your own symbiote that attaches to yourself and works both as a living shield and a second personality. You can just let it take over if you want or work to fight against its ego, being able to create weapons out of it as well as even allowing it to save you from death. The symbiote is definitely something that took a lot of tweaking to get to a point that I liked it, but it's also one of the more rewarding pieces of design I've done because of that.

New Social Talents
Slightly less goofy than the heroic ones, these are for the more pragmatic vigilante, letting you get an estimate of an opponent's number of skill ranks, hiding your thoughts from others, being able to wear another creature's face as your own, and have any alignment for your social or vigilante identity.

New Vigilante Talents
While last book was the melee book, this book picks it up in ranged and magic. You can pick up animal companions, empower yourself through blood, create an area of difficult terrain with your weapon, use a spiked chain as god intended, or become a critical god with an increased crit range for light weapons.

You can also become AMAZING with dirty tricks, use your hair as a weapon, or even grow more durable as your minions fall. My two favorite here are Magic Killer which lets you cleave through certain spells and effects and Magical Limit Break, which allows vigilantes to obtain 7th and 8th level spells (at 16th and 20th level respectively), letting them break the limits of their own magical power. Well that and being able to properly use a ripsaw glaive too.

New Feats
Aside from some standard 'extra' feats, there's also Charismatic Caster to turn any vigilante into a spontaneous charisma based caster, Genius and Wise vigilante to make you either an intelligence or wisdom based vigilante, and of course mystic accuracy to help really power up your mystic bolts. Mystic bolts received a LOT of support this book, making them a far more attractive option than before.

Crimson Dreadnought
To me, this is the faceless soldier+ prestige class. It gives you the ability to really play someone that is dedicated to a ruler with a lot of tools to make sure that you just don't go down. A faceless foe who can continue to rise after being taken down is easily the kind you'd want for your minions, at least I'd assume so.

Vigilante Variant Multiclass
Or as most people will look at it, the way to get yet another vigilante talent. It's actually pretty nice for non vigilantes if you're taking the masked identity line from Legendary Vigilantes, as it swaps out a feat in the identity chain. It's also a way to help get yourself the appearance features late in the game, which is pretty nice. And hey, extra social talent is already a feat, you can start taking social talents that require another identity.

New Magic Items
Really it's full of everything you need to be a jerk, including magic smoke pellets that scale with level, gloves that charm others that scale with level, and yet another tool to help boost your mystic bolts to acceptable levels.

Sample Character
I really enjoy Red Love, although a lot of that goes into enjoying women allowed to be the eccentric types. I also love female characters with no romantic plot tied to them, and I love symbiotes. So yeah, I love the hell out of Red Love, who's a great and fun character that can easily be thrown into most games. She's optimized to the point where she's a threat to most groups and a fun side villain to throw in if you need a 'dragon' to your BBEG.

Final Thoughts
The second half of the Legendary Vigilantes playtest and my first assigned project to Legendary Games, I had more fun with this than I expected. The vigilante is such a versatile class, and it's very fun to design for it. The fact that it had such a robust playtest speaks to how much people wanted content like this, and I have to thank all of my playtesters for being so diligent in keeping this project as great as it could be.

Now let's all take some time to enjoy being the bad guy.
N. Jolly wrote:

I've been waiting a while for this one, now this was the continuation of the content I wrote for the first book. There's a lot of stuff that I really liked in here, and I can say I enjoyed this book more than the previous one by a good bit.

Consumed Vigilante
Now this one was suggested by someone on the playtest, and it was a lot of fun figuring out how to make it work. The idea of a vigilante who's slowly consumed by their own identity was a great concept, and works well for people who both don't want social talents or a second identity, giving the class's basic premise an interesting tweak.

Can we get some basic information on how this one differs from Legendary Vigilante's 'Exposed Vigilante', who has given up or lost their secret ID?

And the list for this one sounds amazing. I love LV so I'll definitely be getting this.
Silver Crusade
2 people marked this as a favorite.
Eric Hinkle wrote:
N. Jolly wrote:

I've been waiting a while for this one, now this was the continuation of the content I wrote for the first book. There's a lot of stuff that I really liked in here, and I can say I enjoyed this book more than the previous one by a good bit.

Consumed Vigilante
Now this one was suggested by someone on the playtest, and it was a lot of fun figuring out how to make it work. The idea of a vigilante who's slowly consumed by their own identity was a great concept, and works well for people who both don't want social talents or a second identity, giving the class's basic premise an interesting tweak.

Can we get some basic information on how this one differs from Legendary Vigilante's 'Exposed Vigilante', who has given up or lost their secret ID?

And the list for this one sounds amazing. I love LV so I'll definitely be getting this.

Sure thing!

Now where the Exposed Vigilante is a hero who lives without a secret identity like Luke Cage, the Consumed Vigilante is more like a hero who has BECOME their identity like The Joker. Exposed Vigilantes still end up picking up social talents, while Consumed Vigilantes don't get social talents, instead gaining the ability to forgo eating, sleeping, drinking. To me, the difference here is that the Consumed Vigilante gives up the chance to have a more social side to be an overall tougher and more self sustaining vigilante.

Thanks, N. Jolly, that comparison/explanation really does help.
Silver Crusade
Eric Hinkle wrote:
Thanks, N. Jolly, that comparison/explanation really does help.

No problem, always glad to help. And thanks to Kim Hall for the review, I'm glad you liked this strong follow up to Legendary Vigilantes! Also Mercurial Duelist and Trickshot Sniper weren't dropped, they were just shifted to other projects. They'll be out eventually, there's no way I'd let two of my favorite archetypes stay on the cutting room floor.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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N. Jolly wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:
Thanks, N. Jolly, that comparison/explanation really does help.
No problem, always glad to help. And thanks to Kim Hall for the review, I'm glad you liked this strong follow up to Legendary Vigilantes! Also Mercurial Duelist and Trickshot Sniper weren't dropped, they were just shifted to other projects. They'll be out eventually, there's no way I'd let two of my favorite archetypes stay on the cutting room floor.

Indeed, they are still coming soon... VERY soon!

Silver Crusade

Thanks to FedoraFerret and World's Okayest Fighter for the reviews, every review like this helps to find problems and figure out what worked, and I really appreciate the time that went into both of these.

Also I'm pretty happy how much people like Red Love. I have to admit, I always thought of her as the better of my 'iconics', and I'd like to see her 'bleed over' into more things.
Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Speaking of which, your next iconic is officially now in the COMING SOON pile!

Kozue Kaburagi, the iconic mercurial duelist, is in layout now as part of Asian Archetypes: Martial
Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Thanks to FedoraFerret, Kim Hall, and World's Okayest Fighter for your great reviews. We definitely appreciate you taking the time to review it here. Double thanks to FedoraFerret for copying his review over to Amazon.com - we would love it if Kim Hall and World's Okayest Fighter could copy yours over there as well. Reviews are key in Amazon's sorting algorithm and help our product pages get noticed so we can spread the love for LG!

Link to Amazon product page.

Thanks again and I hope you enjoy using this book!
Silver Crusade
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Man, I'm really happy to see some of the love that Red Love has been getting. Wanted to clarify something that I was asked before; with the new Magic Killer vigilante talent, you can use the attack from One Punch Assault/Master for it.

Also you automatically become proficient with any weapon you create with the Weaponized Symbiote vigilante talent. And if you possess the Heavy Arms Hero vigilante talent from Legendary Vigilantes, this does allow you to create oversized weapons with Weaponized Symbiote.

I should have more FAQ later, but these were some questions that had been asked of me elsewhere, and I wanted to make sure they were here in case anyone was curious.

I have a few questions about the Dastard's Smoke Pellet-

1. Are they point-blank only?

2. If I premediate my plan more than a minute in advance, I will be able to look around and see whether I succeeded or not even if I fail the save?

3. Do they provide concealment / total concealment, like a regular smoke pellet?

4. Are they dispersed by wind? What speed?

5. Are they Multi-Use?

5a. Do they retain attunement after being used, if they are multi-use?
Silver Crusade
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StygianRose wrote:

I have a few questions about the Dastard's Smoke Pellet-

1. Are they point-blank only?

2. If I premediate my plan more than a minute in advance, I will be able to look around and see whether I succeeded or not even if I fail the save?

3. Do they provide concealment / total concealment, like a regular smoke pellet?

4. Are they dispersed by wind? What speed?

5. Are they Multi-Use?

5a. Do they retain attunement after being used, if they are multi-use?

1. They can be thrown, I'd say with a 20 ft range.

2. Yeah, I'd say so.

3. Yes, they're just better pellets.

4. They're treated the same as normal smoke pellets in that respect.

5. Yep, although the attunement rule stands.

5a. They do retain attunement.

And of course thank you for the review, and for posting it onto Amazon too! The more reviews we get everywhere, the more amazing people think I am, and that's a net gain for the city!

Red Love!!!!

Seriously folks. This book is worth the purchase price just for the Symbiotic Slayer/Red Love. I know she is just Venom/Carnage with maybe a little Darkchylde/Witchblade mixed in, but this is an awesome piece of design work. Kudos. Question. How soon can I have a trilogy of adventures written for this character? Maybe using some Horror rules. It won't be quick enough. I have to find me a really good serial killer/murder mystery mod. If you're on the fence about this product, get it. If you hadn't even considered it, get it. I am now taking a hard look at you LG. Keep it up.
Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Glad to hear it, Fellfire!

Btw, for those of you looking for some of the "missing" archetypes from the vigilante playtest, the mercurial duelist and sentai soldier just showed up in Asian Archetypes: Martial!

Go get it!
Silver Crusade
Fellfire wrote:
Seriously folks. This book is worth the purchase price just for the Symbiotic Slayer/Red Love. I know she is just Venom/Carnage with maybe a little Darkchylde/Witchblade mixed in, but this is an awesome piece of design work. Kudos. Question. How soon can I have a trilogy of adventures written for this character? Maybe using some Horror rules. It won't be quick enough. I have to find me a really good serial killer/murder mystery mod. If you're on the fence about this product, get it. If you hadn't even considered it, get it. I am now taking a hard look at you LG. Keep it up.

I was seriously thinking carnage/spiderman symbiotes here (which was the reason for the weakness ability), although I've only seen the anime version of witchblade.

Personally, I'd love to use Red Love/Kareena in other projects, and we will be getting stats on Red Love's mother in a future book as well so look out for that.

It'd mean a lot to me and everyone else if you could leave a review for the book, even if it's just talking about enjoying the symbiotic slayer and Red Love, and I hope to bring more monstrous characters out in a similar vein. I've told this to other people for whom I've written; a good sample character can make everything better.

Quick and dirty c/p review at Amazon. 5 stars.
Silver Crusade
Fellfire wrote:
Quick and dirty c/p review at Amazon. 5 stars.

Very much appreciated! Feel free to c/p it here on Paizo too, and know that both myself and my friends who I used to storyboard Red Love appreciate the support. Reviews are a great way to let publishers and writers know what you as a consumer appreciate and dislike (I know the 4 star review we had here gave me a few things I could sharpen up for future books). Again, thank you very much, and I'm really glad you enjoyed Red Love!

Np. Now do me a favor get started on those adventures. By xmas would be nice. ;
Silver Crusade
Fellfire wrote:
Np. Now do me a favor get started on those adventures. By xmas would be nice. ;

I'll talk with Jason about it, see what we can do. I have to admit, I really did love getting to do a meta plot for these two books with Dark Star and Red Love, even if one was obviously better received than the other (I enjoyed Red Love a lot more myself too), I'd love to see things like meta plots become more of a thing in LG content for sample characters and such, have some larger ties into some kind of LG canon.

So, I was reading through Horror Adventures looking for elements I could use in conjunction with Red Love. I really would like to play up the creepiness of the symbiote and Kareena's madness. While looking through that book I noticed, what seem to me, a great many similarities between the Symbiotic Slayer and the Hive Corruption. Were you aware of this? Did any of the ideas presented therein have an effect on the SS archetype during development? Have you had the oppurtunity to read this book? If so, can you offer any suggestions I might use to entwine these two concepts?
Silver Crusade
Fellfire wrote:
So, I was reading through Horror Adventures looking for elements I could use in conjunction with Red Love. I really would like to play up the creepiness of the symbiote and Kareena's madness. While looking through that book I noticed, what seem to me, a great many similarities between the Symbiotic Slayer and the Hive Corruption. Were you aware of this? Did any of the ideas presented therein have an effect on the SS archetype during development? Have you had the oppurtunity to read this book? If so, can you offer any suggestions I might use to entwine these two concepts?

To me, this would be more of a cross between the possessed and hive corruptions from Horror Adventures, since the ego of the symbiote is an important part of the archetype. I tried my best to use as many existing mechanics as possible to keep people from needing to learn new ones (it's why it was a familiar instead of something new, using ego, medium styled possession mechanics), which I think helped the understanding of this complex archetype.

The hive had some, but most of them were just drawn from symbiotes in fiction, as well as other protean characters.

I think the idea of mixing a corruption with a symbiote would be very interesting, possibly tying it to the hive corruption. While it's unspecified, at a later date I will be doing a Symbiote corruption to allow more characters to play a character like this. I talked with a friend about this, and there would be about 3 tiers of symbiote:

Tier 3 is Corruption; this is the least controlled symbiote and the one most likely to be a parasite instead of a symbiote. It's easily the most dangerous of them.

Tier 2 is Symbiotic Slayer; this is more of a symbiosis rather than a parasite, but it still has the risk of losing one's self to it, even if temporary.

Tier 1 is Undefined; there's been some talk of me making a class based around symbiotes with similar mechanics as were presented here, and I can't say I'm opposed to it. It would probably be the most stable of the symbiote options once I've written it.
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Just came by to say that this level of communication with a writer is really awesome, it's cool to see questions being answered this fast!

Thank you, N. Jolly. I agree with WOF. It is indeed awesome when we as fans of this game get to interact with and get questions answered from the people who created elements of it. I will definitely be keeping an eye out for future products.
Silver Crusade
World's Okayest Fighter wrote:
Just came by to say that this level of communication with a writer is really awesome, it's cool to see questions being answered this fast!
Fellfire wrote:
Thank you, N. Jolly. I agree with WOF. It is indeed awesome when we as fans of this game get to interact with and get questions answered from the people who created elements of it. I will definitely be keeping an eye out for future products.

No problem, I enjoy interacting with others.

Few notes; Panache Pool is going to be cleaned up soon (I'm deciding what to do with it), and a bit of clarification on the Forbidden Knowledge feat: If you are a spontaneous caster, you gain a 7th level spell known from your spell list upon selecting this talent, and an 8th upon selecting Magical Limit Break a second time.

Also a character who takes the Chain Lasher or Rip an' Tear talent possesses the EWP feat for them, they can select another feat in its place.

Were there any symbiote talents/abilities that did not survive the playtest? Apparently, the playtest is no longer available and I have been unable to track down a copy. I would like to see the symbiote's natural attacks do more dmg than d4. I suppose this can be overcome by using Weaponized Symbiote (nice touch with the enhancements, btw. I would like to have seen this also with natural attacks) to form oversized claws for d6-d8, however this renders Rending Symbiote extraneous, although with iterative attacks and TWF I suppose it is a fair trade. This is not a criticism of your design, more an observation of the system (I would also like to see Rapidstrike updated, but that's a different conversation). I, for one, would be interested in seeing this presented as a unique class. I am not a big fan of the Vigilante, but see the role-playing potential in it.
Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

I had missed Rapidstrike here - funny, I was about to use it as the name of something else!

A 3five feat. And a fairly specific one at that. Works just fine for aberration "as written" though. Or an aurumvorax. That would be ridiculous. There you go, a new mythic monster.

I'm not sure not sure how the wording would go, could Rending Symbiote be used to gain the Two-weapon Rend feat without taking the prereqs so that it might he used with the Weaponized Symbiote trait, or was this done deliberately?

Symbiotic Empowerment (Ex) The symbiotic slayer gains a +2 alchemical bonus on Strength and Dexterity checks (except initiative
checks) and treats their strength score as though it was 2 higher for the purpose how much they can lift and carry. At 6th level and every 4
levels thereafter, this alchemical bonus and the symbiotic slayer’s
effective strength for lifting and carrying increases by +2. Also if the
symbiotic slayer is missing any limbs, while their symbiote is manifested, they can choose to replace those limbs with their symbiote.

This does not make sense to me either. I am not a dev and also a little dull. Could you explain the reasoning behind this, please. Why was initiative (dex) and dmg (str) excluded? Was it simply deemed too powerful? I don't think so. Would it not have been simpler to just have a straight scaling increase to those two abilities (str and dex)? I think that thematically appropriate.
Silver Crusade
Fellfire wrote:
Were there any symbiote talents/abilities that did not survive the playtest? Apparently, the playtest is no longer available and I have been unable to track down a copy. I would like to see the symbiote's natural attacks do more dmg than d4. I suppose this can be overcome by using Weaponized Symbiote (nice touch with the enhancements, btw. I would like to have seen this also with natural attacks) to form oversized claws for d6-d8, however this renders Rending Symbiote extraneous, although with iterative attacks and TWF I suppose it is a fair trade. This is not a criticism of your design, more an observation of the system (I would also like to see Rapidstrike updated, but that's a different conversation). I, for one, would be interested in seeing this presented as a unique class. I am not a big fan of the Vigilante, but see the role-playing potential in it.

Nope; I'm a big fan of polishing off anything I can in a playtest to make it ready to use. I can admit if I could go back, I'd probably have the damage die of the bestial symbiote's natural attacks increase; I originally had it set like that, but feared increasing damage dice, which is why it's how it is now.

I'll talk with Jason about making a base class based on this, possibly something on the smaller end since it would be borrowing a lot from the archetype's chassis, and I'd actually completely forgot about the old rapid strike feat. Vigilante made the most sense for this as an archetype, but I can see having issues with the base class, as it's not for everyone.

Fellfire wrote:

A 3five feat. And a fairly specific one at that. Works just fine for aberration "as written" though. Or an aurumvorax. That would be ridiculous. There you go, a new mythic monster.

I'm not sure not sure how the wording would go, could Rending Symbiote be used to gain the Two-weapon Rend feat without taking the prereqs so that it might he used with the Weaponized Symbiote trait, or was this done deliberately?

I'd be fine letting Rending Symbiote work as the prereq for two weapon rend myself.

Fellfire wrote:

Symbiotic Empowerment (Ex) The symbiotic slayer gains a +2 alchemical bonus on Strength and Dexterity checks (except initiative

checks) and treats their strength score as though it was 2 higher for the purpose how much they can lift and carry. At 6th level and every 4
levels thereafter, this alchemical bonus and the symbiotic slayer’s
effective strength for lifting and carrying increases by +2. Also if the
symbiotic slayer is missing any limbs, while their symbiote is manifested, they can choose to replace those limbs with their symbiote.

This does not make sense to me either. I am not a dev and also a little dull. Could you explain the reasoning behind this, please. Why was initiative (dex) and dmg (str) excluded? Was it simply deemed too powerful? I don't think so. Would it not have been simpler to just have a straight scaling increase to those two abilities (str and dex)? I think that thematically appropriate.

This was entirely because of balance, yeah. It would have also infringed on surging symbiote, although thinking about it more, being able to add this to initiative checks would have been probably fine. This was also my way of allowing people to play a character missing a limb, since some people have expressed interest in that. In the original backstory for Red Love, she was missing her right hand and took this talent, but it was lost after a few re-writes.

Thank you, as always, for your reply, Mr. Jolly. I look forward to future updates of the class/archetype. I plan on turning Red Love up past 11. Yes, I hate my players, but, in my defense, they deserve it.

Synergetic Pounce (Ex) [symbiote] When using the Charge action the manifested Symbiotic Slayer can make a full-attack against their opponent. At 7th level the Symbiotic Slayer can manifest mid-charge and pounce on an opponent in the same round.

Leaping Symbiote (Ex) [symbiote] Once per round, when manifested, the Symbiotic Slayer gains a +10 competence bonus on Acrobatics checks made to attempt high or long jumps, treating such jumps as though they had a running start. This competence bonus increases to +20 at level XX, and to +30 at level XX.

Clinging Symbiote (Ex) [symbiote] When manifested the Symbiotic Slayer can climb and travel on vertical surfaces or even traverse ceilings. The Symbiotic Slayer must have its hands free to travel in this manner. The Symbiotic Slayer gains a Climb speed of 20 feet and a +8 bonus on Climb skill checks; furthermore , it need not make Climb checks to traverse a vertical or horizontal surface (even upside down). A Symbiotic Slayer retains its Dex bonus to AC (if any) while climbing and opponents get no special bonuses to their attacks against it. It cannot however, use the Run action while climbing.
* really surprised you did not do this one.

Brutal Symbiote (Ex) [symbiote] The Symbiotic Slayer’s natural attacks improve to 1d6/1d6 (claw) and 1d8 (bite). A Symbiotic Slayer must have the bestial symbiote talent and be level XX or higher to select this talent.

Savage Symbiote (Ex) [symbiote] The Symbiotic Slayer’s natural attacks improve again to a maximum 1d8/1d8 (claw) and 2d6 (bite). A Symbiotic Slayer must have the brutal symbiote talent and be level XX or higher to select this talent.

Symbiotic Alacrity (Ex) [symbiote] The Symbiotic Slayer moves with inhuman speed. When making a full-attack action, the Symbiotic Slayer may make one extra attack with one natural or manufactured weapon. The attack is made using the creature's full BAB. This increases to a maximum of two extra attacks at level XX. It gains a +1 haste bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves. This bonus increases to +X at level XX and +X at level XX. It also gains a +10 ft. enhancement bonus to its land speed. This bonus increases to +20 at level XX and +30 at level XX. The Symbiotic Slayer must be level XX or higher to select this talent.
* this one really needs help. I am trying to work in haste, Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike.
Silver Crusade

When I initially saw the symbiotic slayer, Venom and Carnage didn't immediately come to mind. My first thought was of The Guyver.

It was only after reading over the archetype that I saw it was more like the Spider-Man villainous symbiotes, which saddened me greatly. I went to check and see if the Sentai Soldier could be used alongside symbiotic slayer, but nope that didn't workout either.

Understanding that you weren't thinking along those lines, I think you missed out on an opportunity to take elements of kineticist and apply it to this archetype to give it something similar to the thoracic particle beam cannon (more commonly known as the Mega Smasher) or even the Gravity Launcher/Pressure Cannon in the form of symbiote talents? Who knows... perhaps its something you could do at another time.
Silver Crusade
Fellfire wrote:
Thank you, as always, for your reply, Mr. Jolly. I look forward to future updates of the class/archetype. I plan on turning Red Love up past 11. Yes, I hate my players, but, in my defense, they deserve it.

Please tell me how it goes, and I'm taking note of your suggestions here in case I do get the chance to do something with this archetype.

Blayde MacRonan wrote:

When I initially saw the symbiotic slayer, Venom and Carnage didn't immediately come to mind. My first thought was of The Guyver.

It was only after reading over the archetype that I saw it was more like the Spider-Man villainous symbiotes, which saddened me greatly. I went to check and see if the Sentai Soldier could be used alongside symbiotic slayer, but nope that didn't workout either.

Understanding that you weren't thinking along those lines, I think you missed out on an opportunity to take elements of kineticist and apply it to this archetype to give it something similar to the thoracic particle beam cannon (more commonly known as the Mega Smasher) or even the Gravity Launcher/Pressure Cannon in the form of symbiote talents? Who knows... perhaps its something you could do at another time.

For the villain vibe, I thought Venom/Carnage worked best, but if people are behind a base class enough, I'm actually interested in seeing more fictional symbiotes to really get a strong view on how to best regulate them. Right now I'm planning on watching a Prototype playthrough for some ideas, since that's something that I've gotten a lot of people telling me to check out.

Please let me and my publisher know if more expanded symbiote content is what you're looking for so I can put it onto my schedule.

Years ago, in the Image comic universe, there was a character by the name of Warblade. He had this outer "skin" of liquid metal a la the T-1000. Usually he just shaped his fingers into slashy claws but after training be could shape himself into elaborate forms with such evocative names as Murder Tree, Skin of Thorns, Blood-Bird Posture, Fountain of Daggers, Flail of Arrows, Ruin's Butterfly, and Bloody Briar. Now, there was a monster way back in the 2e era known as Living Metal that could probably be used in this regard. There might be something there for a talented designer, I don't know.

I think what Blayde here is talking about is anime, I recognize the name Guyver, but not much else. Never was much of a fan behond GitS, Ninja Scroll and a few others that made a big splash. However, many people are. And since kineticist seems to be everybody's favorite shiny new toy, I think this could work. A symbiote with energy blasts certainly fits the bill.

On a related note (I think), another cool concept not yet explored in Pathfinder, yet may be something to consider in the near future, what with the Iron Gods AP and the upcoming Starfinder is the concept of a cybernetic symbiote. Although I do not know them by name, I do know that manga/anime has been using this trope for many years. Definitely some potential there as well.

Just some random thoughts from a disorganized brain.

If I could pick at the crunchy part of your brain for a minute (that sounded weird), last night I was reading up on the base Vigilante class for a bit before my mind wandered. I have not yet crunched the numbers on Red Love. Did you use the slightly more robust (full BAB) Avenger type or the sneaky Stalker type for her? I could not tell at first glance (kind of dull, remember), as much of the other abilities are subsumed by the symbiote. If you were going to do a symbiote base class, it would almost certainly have to use the (Un?)Rogue or Ninja chassis just for the talents, right? Unless you rebuild from the ground up. Although I have not had the opportunity to pick up Unchained Fighters or its upcoming sequel yet, isn't Alexander working on something like talents for the fighter. Really still pretty novice at meta-crafting and tinkering with the mechanics of the classes. Any insights into this process are appreciated as is your continued participation in this scroll. I hope the repeated bumps to the top of the pile keep people interested and your work succesful.
Liberty's Edge

I think a Symbiot-wearing base class would be very well received by those who are not keen on the Vigilante. It might open similar possibilities of abilities mix and match without the dual identities / superhero thing

And it could be a balanced replacement for the Synthesist Summoner :-)

To what energy type is Red Love vulnerable? I do not see it listed in her stats anywhere.
The Raven Black wrote:
I think a Symbiot-wearing base class would be very well received by those who are not keen on the Vigilante. It might open similar possibilities of abilities mix and match without the dual identities / superhero thing

I'd definitely hope you can still do the dual identity thing with it. Many people (myself included) rather liked flash as a symbiote-wearing superhero with dual identities.

Silver Crusade
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Fellfire wrote:

If I could pick at the crunchy part of your brain for a minute (that sounded weird), last night I was reading up on the base Vigilante class for a bit before my mind wandered. I have not yet crunched the numbers on Red Love. Did you use the slightly more robust (full BAB) Avenger type or the sneaky Stalker type for her? I could not tell at first glance (kind of dull, remember), as much of the other abilities are subsumed by the symbiote. If you were going to do a symbiote base class, it would almost certainly have to use the (Un?)Rogue or Ninja chassis just for the talents, right? Unless you rebuild from the ground up. Although I have not had the opportunity to pick up Unchained Fighters or its upcoming sequel yet, isn't Alexander working on something like talents for the fighter. Really still pretty novice at meta-crafting and tinkering with the mechanics of the classes. Any insights into this process are appreciated as is your continued participation in this scroll. I hope the repeated bumps to the top of the pile keep people interested and your work succesful.

I went more avenger for her myself, and yeah, it'd have that chassis even if a lot of talents from the core archetype. Really, I want to keep the talent strength on par with vigilante talents. I haven't checked out the UC Fighter yet, I might later and do a review on it, so I'll have to talk to Alex about that.

The Raven Black wrote:

I think a Symbiot-wearing base class would be very well received by those who are not keen on the Vigilante. It might open similar possibilities of abilities mix and match without the dual identities / superhero thing

And it could be a balanced replacement for the Synthesist Summoner :-)

Talking with the publisher, they're game for me to write up a symbiote base class, so the last few days has been doing researcher.

The following are the sources I'm using:

-Spiderman
-Warframe
-Prototype 1/2
-The Guyver

I've only gotten a chance to check out half of these so far, so if you have any other inspiration I should check out for this new class, let me know.

And it was left out of her entry, but Red Love is weak to Cold.

Milo v3 wrote:
I'd definitely hope you can still do the dual identity thing with it. Many people (myself included) rather liked flash as a symbiote-wearing superhero with dual identities.

Technically you could still pull this off with the masked identity line from Legendary Vigilantes, also I remember hearing that Paizo put out a way for anyone to do dual identities as well, so that'd easily be possible.

The Symbiote Base Class is now officially in the pipeline though, even if I have things in front of it.

Warframe? Did you mean Warblade mentioned above?

Thanks, N. Sweet! You know I'm sold. Glad to hear you got the green-light. I'll keep my eyes peeled, but please keep us apprised.
Silver Crusade

Warframe
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Thanks, Rysky. That explains my lack of. Sadly, I do not own a nex-gen system yet, but that looks pretty hot. What a great job it must be where playing video games and reading comics can be considered research.
Silver Crusade

Np.
Silver Crusade
Fellfire wrote:

I think what Blayde here is talking about is anime, I recognize the name Guyver, but not much else. Never was much of a fan behond GitS, Ninja Scroll and a few others that made a big splash. However, many people are. And since kineticist seems to be everybody's favorite shiny new toy, I think this could work. A symbiote with energy blasts certainly fits the bill.

On a related note (I think), another cool concept not yet explored in Pathfinder, yet may be something to consider in the near future, what with the Iron Gods AP and the upcoming Starfinder is the concept of a cybernetic symbiote. Although I do not know them by name, I do know that manga/anime has been using this trope for many years. Definitely some potential there as well.

Just some random thoughts from a disorganized brain.

Yes, The Guyver is from the Japanese manga that has two anime and even a couple of American-made live-action films. The Guyver Units are a symbiotic bio-organic alien technology, so it fits in with your cybernetic symbiote idea.

Liberty's Edge

I would consider Deathlok (from Marvel comics) the wearer of a technological symbiote. I will look for other such characters
Silver Crusade
The Raven Black wrote:
I would consider Deathlok (from Marvel comics) the wearer of a technological symbiote. I will look for other such characters

Dethklok, eh? That's Doable!

I really should check the superhero wiki, I'm sure Spawn technically falls under the symbiote rainbow too even though his is some kinda hell spawn thing. Thanks for the reference, I'll check it out.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There isn't an anime for it, but Sengoku Youko might be worth checking out for a more fantasy-based version, a lot of people have been partially fused with various yokai and can transform to manifest demonic limbs and such; in particular, one fairly important character has one thousand demons bound to him and can do some pretty crazy s*$$.

I also like Parasyte, though that's not quite symbiote-level, since the protagonist only has part of his body infested...though that could make for an interesting archetype. But it does have an anime!

If you really want to go oddball with some high level stuff...well...Kill la Kill might count...?

Edit: Also, someone else has tackled this with the Primal Host, so that might be worth checking out for some inspiration for your take on it.

Edit: Also also, a friend of mine recommends looking into Splicers from Palladium Games for some ideas.
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