Pathfinder Adventure Path: Curse of the Crimson Throne (PFRPG)

*ponders buying the German limited edition*

Yes.

Die Rückkehr des Klassikers!

Return of a classic sounds like 'Die, you mother_____ classy killers!'

I've been going through the PDF, copying the NPC art for my upcoming campaign and I noticed that there's a bunch of NPCs that I can't select in Acrobat. It almost looks like there is another layer on top of those pieces and they're effectively covered up.

Has anyone else seen this?

-Skeld

Yeah, it seems to happen from time to time. You can get at them by using a pdf-extractor like SomePDF Image Extractor or the like.

Yeah, it seems to happen from time to time. You can get at them by using a pdf-extractor like SomePDF Image Extractor or the like.

I've run across this on occasion, but there are a lot of images in this document that can't be selected. I've tried an image export with another product before and I ended up with a whole bunch of images that I had to sort through and it was a mess. I think I'll just use the snapshot tool for now and hope for an update later.

-Skeld

Personally, I've been using the "Get a snapshot" option in Adobe Reader (under Edit menu) and then paste and edit the pic in MS Paint. Old school on the barbaric side, but those the tools that I'm familiar with.

I've been going through the PDF, copying the NPC art for my upcoming campaign and I noticed that there's a bunch of NPCs that I can't select in Acrobat. It almost looks like there is another layer on top of those pieces and they're effectively covered up.

Has anyone else seen this?

-Skeld

Hey Skeld, can you let me know what pages/file you're experiencing this problem with? When we generate the files we try to avoid image elements preventing image selection for this reason (it's certainly annoying). If we missed a chapter or section, we can look into putting resolving/reissuing files onto the to-do list.

Hey Skeld, can you let me know what pages/file you're experiencing this problem with? When we generate the files we try to avoid image elements preventing image selection for this reason (it's certainly annoying). If we missed a chapter or section, we can look into putting resolving/reissuing files onto the to-do list.

Hey Chris, when I do standard image selection in Adobe Reader, I get this black pixelation around the image that's difficult to clean up. Is this part of the "copyright protection"? And what is Paizo's official policy about copying images from the PDFs for our personal campaigns?

Chris Lambertz wrote:

Hey Skeld, can you let me know what pages/file you're experiencing this problem with? When we generate the files we try to avoid image elements preventing image selection for this reason (it's certainly annoying). If we missed a chapter or section, we can look into putting resolving/reissuing files onto the to-do list.

Hey Chris, when I do standard image selection in Adobe Reader, I get this black pixelation around the image that's difficult to clean up. Is this part of the "copyright protection"? And what is Paizo's official policy about copying images from the PDFs for our personal campaigns?

It is not, it's likely an artifact of going from the PDF reader to whatever image editing software that's in use (this isn't something we can easily control, as software versioning or plugins or any number of variables can change this). Our policy is that how you use your PDFs (and images therein) should be limited to personal use and not redistributed.

Thanks!

Skeld wrote:

I've been going through the PDF, copying the NPC art for my upcoming campaign and I noticed that there's a bunch of NPCs that I can't select in Acrobat. It almost looks like there is another layer on top of those pieces and they're effectively covered up.

Has anyone else seen this?

-Skeld

Hey Skeld, can you let me know what pages/file you're experiencing this problem with? When we generate the files we try to avoid image elements preventing image selection for this reason (it's certainly annoying). If we missed a chapter or section, we can look into putting resolving/reissuing files onto the to-do list.

Sure, Chris. I'm happy to help out.

I'm working from the file PZO1021E.pdf contained in PathfinderAdventurePathCurseOfTheCrimsonThronePFRPGPDF-SingleFile.zip, which i downloaded this evening. My Downloads tells me the last time this file was updated was July 2016.

There are a bunch, so I've spoilered them:

Also, in case it matters, I'm using Acrobat Reader v15.5888 on a Win10 PC.

-Skeld

Chris Lambertz wrote:

Hey Skeld, can you let me know what pages/file you're experiencing this problem with? When we generate the files we try to avoid image elements preventing image selection for this reason (it's certainly annoying). If we missed a chapter or section, we can look into putting resolving/reissuing files onto the to-do list.

Hey Chris, when I do standard image selection in Adobe Reader, I get this black pixelation around the image that's difficult to clean up. Is this part of the "copyright protection"? And what is Paizo's official policy about copying images from the PDFs for our personal campaigns?

What ever causes the black backgrounds and trash pixels around the images has always been in Paizo products going back to the early days of pathfinder. I think there's something hiding in the images' alpha channel that causes image software to render uncolored pixels black instead of white. If the original images have transparent layers, then it could be creeping in there anywhere in the PDF-building process.

-Skeld

I just use snipping tool instead of copying images directly from pdfs for my roll20 campaigns <_< Much less problems that way

I heard the Guided weapon property was removed from the new Pathfinder edition of the Crimson Throne, can anyone confirm this? And if so does that make the enchant now illegal for play?

It wasn't added to the Hardcover, don't know about the legality in PFS.

I heard the Guided weapon property was removed from the new Pathfinder edition of the Crimson Throne, can anyone confirm this? And if so does that make the enchant now illegal for play?

It (and another frequent object of discussion, the celestial plate armor) do not appear in the hardcover.

Neither were ever legal for PFS, so their "legality" is entirely in the hands of your GM. ^_^

All I know is I'm VERY happy with this hardcover even if they didn't kill off who I'd like.

All I know is I'm VERY happy with this hardcover even if they didn't kill off who I'd like.

Just curious, who is it you wish they had killed?

I bet it's

Captain gets the XP! :)

I am not sure if this is too early to ask but is there an update as to when the next anniversary edition may be done?

They only announce products several months in advance of publication. There were multiple years between the two anniversary APs. There may never be a third, but if there is it will be far in the future.

For the record, Rise of the Runelord was the only "Anniversary Edition". There is no anniversary involved in the Curse of the Crimson Throne hardcover edition.

Zaister,

Not an official one no but this is as close as we're going to get for CotCT.

And yes I don't believe we'll see one in 2018 or 2019.

It's a huge amount of work for them, and they have Starfinder coming out now.

I doubt they've even decided whether to do another one. If they do, my money would be on Kingmaker. By all accounts it's the next most popular of the first dozen or so adventure paths. But who knows? Anyway, I wouldn't expect this until at least 2019, more likely 2020 (if ever).

Doug M.

Note that Kingmaker, being a PFRPG Adventure Path, does not qualify for hardcover compilation. Sold-out status is only half the qualification. ^_^

Er... why would it not qualify?

Doug M.

The other reason for compiling the APs into a hardcover is to update them to PF from 3.5.

Because it's already PF compatible unlike CotCT, RotRL, SD, or LoF. All of those were written pre-PF.

Kingmaker is popular but that doesn't mean it would equate to needing a revision JUST yet.

Er... why would it not qualify?

The official policy is fairly particular on the subject. ^_^

Here's Vic's most recent, from November 2016:

Just as Runelords was when we compiled it, Crimson Throne is now almost sold out in its original form (as of our last low inventory blog in November, the first three volumes were completely sold out, volumes 4 and 5 were under 1000 copies, and volume 6 was under 500), and it benefits from being updated to the current ruleset. While a couple other APs meet one or the other of those, there are no other APs that meet both.

So there's no AP that's both 3.5 and sold well. That means their options are (1) Never do another AP collection -- possible; or (2) Do one that's PFRPG, but that has sold well and that promises to sell well -- possible; or (3) do either Second Darkness or Legacy of Fire, because those are the two remaining 3.5 APs.

Second Darkness can't be considered a promising candidate for collection and republication. It's one of the weakest selling of the first dozen APs, so they still have a pile of unsold modules in the warehouse. Also, it consistently scores low on surveys of which APs were most popular / well liked. Here's a link to the most recent survey I'm aware of. As you can see, Second Darkness scores the lowest of the first dozen APs in terms of things like "how did you rate the roleplaying/combats/plot" and "how likely would you be to recommend this AP to someone".

Furthermore, the Paizo staff themselves acknowledge that Second Darkness is seriously flawed. It was early days, and they were still figuring things out. (They've also acknowledged serious design flaws in a couple of other APs, most notably Serpent's Skull, so this isn't to pick on poor Second Darkness.) This is not to say it's horrible. There are things to like in that AP. If the stars were right, and my players were looking for something Underdarky, I might run it someday. (There's a definite shortage of proper Underdark stuff in the current set of APs.) But from a business POV, Second Darkness is pretty clearly the least promising candidate of the early APs.

So what does that leave? Either they don't do another collection at all (in which case all this is moot) or they do one that's already PFRPG, or they do Legacy of Fire. Well, Legacy doesn't fall as flat as Second Darkness. AFAWCT it's a respectable midlister, with decent survey scores and pretty good sales. However, if you set it against the other eight APs from that first dozen, there are several that have pretty clearly outranked and outsold it. And of those, the top performer seems to be Kingmaker.

So, if they're going to do another one, then we'd reasonably expect it either to be Legacy (because 3.5) or Kingmaker (because AFAWCT it's the most popular and best selling of the first group of Pathfinder-rules APs). I think business logic would strongly suggest Kingmaker. Also, although Kingmaker is PFRPG, it could certainly benefit from what Vic calls "reinvention". While it's a very popular AP, there's room for improvement; there are (as many people have pointed out) holes in the plot, and the kingdom-building rules have a couple of loopholes that are very exploitable. And of course, adding later rulesets (thinking Ultimate Intrigue here, but there are several other that could apply) means that reinvention is possible for pretty much everything.

YMMV, but that's my reasoning: expect nothing for at least a couple of years, then either more nothing or Kingmaker.

Doug M.

I agree with Vic that if they would release hardcover versions of PFRPG aps, I'd definitely would find that as reccomendations agaisnt buying them <_< I mean, I never run ap before reading the whole thing and I doubt I can run more than two at same time, so I definitely would have a lot of time to wait for them and hardcover is much cheaper than six seperate softcovers. Espicially if I would end up getting "inferior product" by not waiting. 3.5 APs on the otherhand I'm never planning to run unless they get updated to current rules.

I do kinda wonder what they should do about Second Darkness though if they were to update it. Would they focus more on the path set by first two books or the latter four? Or would they split the ap into two different ones? Would they just rewrite the entire thing? Or would they just rewrite the middle books to make it less bait and switch?

I do kinda wonder what they should do about Second Darkness though if they were to update it. Would they focus more on the path set by first two books or the latter four? Or would they split the ap into two different ones? Would they just rewrite the entire thing? Or would they just rewrite the middle books to make it less bait and switch?

That didn't answer my question of how to fix that bait & switch though. Like, do you do it by making casino/criminal part of the ap bigger thing or by making darklands part of it more important earlier?

Discussions about Second Darkness or other possible future AP hardcover collections doesn't really fit into this product discussion thread. There's already a thread for that here.

True, fair enough.

Doug M.

The other reason for compiling the APs into a hardcover is to update them to PF from 3.5.

I would just like to clarify: I stated that it's important to offer some form of reinvention, and I stated that updating something from 3.5 to PF was a valid way to achieve that, but I didn't say that that was the only way to achieve that.

The original post where I suggested the concept of reinvention (though I didn't use that word at that time) is here. (It's the bit about how we need to have a "new product" burst of sales at launch.)

If you want to follow up on that, post in the thread Zaister linked above.

Very interesting. Thank you for the clarification, sir! ^_^

This may be a very stupid question, and it may not have an answer yet, but there were 4 years between Rise of the Runelords Hardcover version and this Hardcover version. does that mean we just have to wait until 2020 to see Second Darkness (and the return of the Deep Crow)?

Do not expect any kind of regular schedule for hardcover AP collections.

This may be a very stupid question, and it may not have an answer yet, but there were 4 years between Rise of the Runelords Hardcover version and this Hardcover version. does that mean we just have to wait until 2020 to see Second Darkness (and the return of the Deep Crow)?

Probably far longer. Every issue is still in stock, and at a steep discount. Sadly, there's no reason for them to believe that such a collection would sell.

The deep crow is highly unlikely to return even then. Like the couerl and the various Chaosium monsters of Carrion Crown and Strange Aeons, it's not Paizo's to use. They'd have to get permission again, and they're not likely to bother with that - especially for something that doesn't even appear in the adventure proper.

Probably far longer. Every issue is still in stock, and at a steep discount. Sadly, there's no reason for them to believe that such a collection would sell.

Legacy of Fire has sold out copies - does that mean it's more likely to get a hardcover than Second Darkness?

Although, as far as selling out, I'm pretty sure any PRPG update of the Drow City information would sell very well. It sucked having to use pre-PRPG info when I ran a drow game.

Legacy of Fire has sold out copies - does that mean it's more likely to get a hardcover than Second Darkness?

More likely... but by no means guaranteed, or even especially likely. Neither has quite the popularity that the first two APs possess.

Although, as far as selling out, I'm pretty sure any PRPG update of the Drow City information would sell very well. It sucked having to use pre-PRPG info when I ran a drow game.

That, on the other hand, sounds like perfect material for the Campaign Setting line. Or, perhaps, a future AP will return to Zirnakaynin. Who knows? ^_^

Kal,

I hope you're not teasing us with that future AP thingie...

But yeah Legacy of Fire might happen but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Nothing of the sort, I assure you. I know no more than anyone else when it comes to such things. ^_^

Zelgadas Greyward wrote:

Legacy of Fire has sold out copies - does that mean it's more likely to get a hardcover than Second Darkness?

More likely... but by no means guaranteed, or even especially likely. Neither has quite the popularity that the first two APs possess.

Zelgadas Greyward wrote:

Although, as far as selling out, I'm pretty sure any PRPG update of the Drow City information would sell very well. It sucked having to use pre-PRPG info when I ran a drow game.

That, on the other hand, sounds like perfect material for the Campaign Setting line. Or, perhaps, a future AP will return to Zirnakaynin. Who knows? ^_^

+10 for "Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Zirnakaynin, City of the Drow"!

Okay Kal. I believe you.

Is this a good Adventure Path to start with? First time GM.

If you like City based adventures then yes.

If it's your first tile GMing though I would probably recommend a module over a whole AP.

If you like City based adventures then yes.

If it's your first tile GMing though I would probably recommend a module over a whole AP.

For New GMs I also recommend starting with modules, as APs are a big commitment to get done.

If your somewhat experienced and like urban adventures this is an AP I would highly recommend.

And if you don't mind running what is considerably one of the largest castle run/dungeon crawls in recent memory, you want to run Skeletons of Scarwall. ;)