Announced! Product image and description are not final and subject to change.
Intrigue eh? Call me Intrigued. ;)
Not sure about this one, will have to wait and see when the product description gets updated.
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The Veiled Masters will not be pleased to see their secrets bandied about.
looks very interesting.
Secret academies?! I love academies and secret is even better! I hope a lot of this is applicable to bards...only the most intriguing class ever, right? ;)
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Similar to Ultimate Intrigue, i hope this doesn´t change Golarion into a DC/Marvel superhero rip off.
On the other hand, if this generaly (and not only for vigilantes) expands options for stealth, subtlety etc, it´s highly welcome.
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Well since we have dragons, faeries, aliens, robots, psychics, angels, demons, clockworks, lovecraftian horrors, etc. I think some super heroes wouldn't hurt as well;)
Well since we have dragons, faeries, aliens, robots, psychics, angels, demons, clockworks, lovecraftian horrors, etc. I think some super heroes wouldn't hurt as well;)
Yeah! Then let´s welcome Marvel/DC comic character clone Nr. 12487302852845! Because it fits so well into Golarion^^
My 12th level barbarian didn't survive his 200ft drop, Gorbacz...
My 12th level barbarian didn't survive his 200ft drop, Gorbacz...
Feather Fall.
Developer
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Similar to Ultimate Intrigue, i hope this doesn´t change Golarion into a DC/Marvel superhero rip off.
On the other hand, if this generaly (and not only for vigilantes) expands options for stealth, subtlety etc, it´s highly welcome.
I'm actually really curious about this comment, specifically about why our "Intrigue" titles would have such an effect on Golarion more than any other product. What about the content in these has you concerned about DC/Marvel ripoff elements worming their way into the game/setting?
Quid,
Yeah...we didn't have any arcane spellcasters in our group.
I'm actually really curious about this comment, specifically about why our "Intrigue" titles would have such an effect on Golarion more than any other product. What about the content in these has you concerned about DC/Marvel ripoff elements worming their way into the game/setting?
I'd assume it's the mental association of secret identities with comic book characters.
Personally I don't think the link is likely to fully be in the vigilante. There were heroes (and serial killers) with secret identities long before comic books, so you guys have a decent amount to draw on when it comes to flavouring the vigilante.
I'm actually really curious about this comment, specifically about why our "Intrigue" titles would have such an effect on Golarion more than any other product. What about the content in these has you concerned about DC/Marvel ripoff elements worming their way into the game/setting?I'd assume it's the mental association of secret identities with comic book characters.
Personally I don't think the link is likely to fully be in the vigilante. There were heroes (and serial killers) with secret identities long before comic books, so you guys have a decent amount to draw on when it comes to flavouring the vigilante.
Like Zorro, the Scarlet Pimpernel, and the Scarecrow of Romney Marsh, just to name the first three I can think of.
And information on Galt and Daggermark's Poisoners? I'll definitely be getting this book.
Yeah, there were many times many comments regarding this on the play test threads. A good many people went straight to "OMG BATMAN RIPOFFZ!" as soon as the words secret identity were mentioned.
In any case, I'm looking forward to this book and how the social combat will play out.
I'm actually really curious about this comment, specifically about why our "Intrigue" titles would have such an effect on Golarion more than any other product. What about the content in these has you concerned about DC/Marvel ripoff elements worming their way into the game/setting?Similar to Ultimate Intrigue, i hope this doesn´t change Golarion into a DC/Marvel superhero rip off.
On the other hand, if this generaly (and not only for vigilantes) expands options for stealth, subtlety etc, it´s highly welcome.
Comic rip-off PC´s existed before that of course, but the vigilante with secret identities and masked characters brings a very strong element of that into the game.
Things like "oh let me use that phone booth to change quickly" are very close there.For me, that definately brings a strong DC/Marvel vibe into the game, not only for a rip-off, but on a hard-code level.
There are parts of Golarion where such a second persona makes sense, even though there were already options for that in the game actually if really needed. Like in Cheliax and conjunction with Hells Rebels perhaps (didn´t fully read that yet).
This is by the way not meant as bleating, but a concern based on observations and talks with players and potential players.
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The existence of the vigilante rules isn't going to change how Paizo presents Golarion, so it seems to me it's a problem players are bringing to the game, not the setting.
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I'm actually really curious about this comment, specifically about why our "Intrigue" titles would have such an effect on Golarion more than any other product. What about the content in these has you concerned about DC/Marvel ripoff elements worming their way into the game/setting?Similar to Ultimate Intrigue, i hope this doesn´t change Golarion into a DC/Marvel superhero rip off.
On the other hand, if this generaly (and not only for vigilantes) expands options for stealth, subtlety etc, it´s highly welcome.
Comic rip-off PC´s existed before that of course, but the vigilante with secret identities and masked characters brings a very strong element of that into the game.
Things like "oh let me use that phone booth to change quickly" are very close there.
For me, that definately brings a strong DC/Marvel vibe into the game, not only for a rip-off, but on a hard-code level.
There are parts of Golarion where such a second persona makes sense, even though there were already options for that in the game actually if really needed. Like in Cheliax and conjunction with Hells Rebels perhaps (didn´t fully read that yet).
Don't forget Blackjack from the curse of the crimson throne. Though personally, I think they intended for the vigilante to be more of a zorro/picarresque heroes thing than a straight up 'let's all dress up in capes and cowls to take down criminals'.
If the players are repeatedly being stupid, you can point out that phonebooths have glass walls, so EVERYONE can see them change into their Vigilante outfit. superman has superspeed and various can do anything powers. they do not. Batman does not change in a phonebooth and neither does daredevil(though batman is also a billionare with a ludicous amount of tech and daredevil is a blind person with a costume that consists of a bandana(later diched for the silly mask and red clothing(more difficult to conceal so dead drops might be needed) and some fairly lightweight dark clothing).
Finding a secure secretive place to change is one of the most important things to being a vigilante, so most will try and establish some secure locations where spare equipment, vigilante gear and a area to quickly change into their gear will be first on the list of priorities.
You are right though that there are several places where a secondary persona is sometimes vital.
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The existence of the vigilante rules isn't going to change how Paizo presents Golarion, so it seems to me it's a problem players are bringing to the game, not the setting.
True. If I ever decided to create a vigilante, I might start from a comic book character, but then dial back most of the stupider aspects to make something more my own thing that fits into the world. Some silly does not spoil the game, but too much can be bad. A vigilante class isn't going to spoil it, but players that take it WAY too far aren't going to do much for anybody.
Ultimate Intrigue is the hardcover I'm most looking forward to, so I'm psyched to see the Golarion tie-ins! I might even pre-order this! :D
The existence of the vigilante rules isn't going to change how Paizo presents Golarion, so it seems to me it's a problem players are bringing to the game, not the setting.
Exactly.
Will this book feature any more information on the archon lord Kelinahat?
Could this possibly feature a bit more info on the Twilight Talons?! They are VERY intriguing. I have seen their agents abroad in several Campaign Setting books (offhand I believe I recall them in Irrisen and Numeria CS books).
Definitely piques my interest!
Well, it's not like there aren't already several organizations where members are masked and/or have secret identities. The Grey Gardeners, The Red Mantis Assassins, the Decemvirate...
Oh man, I didn't realize how badly I wanted a Grey Gardener archetype until now... Though the PrC isn't bad at all! Still want to give that class a go at some point.
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Well, it's not like there aren't already several organizations where members are masked and/or have secret identities. The Grey Gardeners, The Red Mantis Assassins, the Decemvirate...
Jatembe's Ten Magic Warriors, with their animal masks.
There are quite a few, and between the Veiled Masters and Razmir's 'priests' and the Skinsaw cults / Norgorberites and the clergy of Sivanah, there's lots of room for more in that vein.
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I really hope there's archetypes for the Vigilante that trade out social talents. The Class is awesome and the archetypes given in Ui were cool but they all modified the vigilante side and talents.I'm sure they will at some point, but the general fantasy calls for more variation in the secret identity rather than the mundane one. It's also probably a bigger draw for the class. While some of the archetypes probably could have been done as specializations, it seems easier to expand the social potential through talents. Also have to be careful because it would mean it is compatible with most of the UI ones.
All that said maybe a set of features themed around various social identities (Noble is somewhat covered, Investigator, Vagabond, Apprentice/Student,Crafter, etc.) would be useful. THey'd probably need to stay skill/utility focused since the vigilante identity covers combat ability.
The latter is more what I was hoping for, variation for the Social Identity rather than diminishing it. They kinda already had one with the Everyman talent.
Maybe instead of a noble or business owner you're a librarian or antiquities dealer, that deals more with knowledge than fame.
Or an artist or musician, with your tours providing a better means to explain why a Vigilante would be an adventurer. As of now there'll probably be a perceived notion that the class may only be effective in a singular urban campaign.
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THose are good ideas, especially the artist/musician allowing travel. It wouldn't be hard to make such archetypes, replace the level 1 social talent for the basic one for your social identity and a few others with skill bonuses to appropriate skills. The most obvious seem to be perform, knowledge skills, and craft/profession skills. Maybe a wilderness based package, but that might be stretching the conceptI really hope there's archetypes for the Vigilante that trade out social talents. The Class is awesome and the archetypes given in Ui were cool but they all modified the vigilante side and talents.I'm sure they will at some point, but the general fantasy calls for more variation in the secret identity rather than the mundane one. It's also probably a bigger draw for the class. While some of the archetypes probably could have been done as specializations, it seems easier to expand the social potential through talents. Also have to be careful because it would mean it is compatible with most of the UI ones.
All that said maybe a set of features themed around various social identities (Noble is somewhat covered, Investigator, Vagabond, Apprentice/Student,Crafter, etc.) would be useful. THey'd probably need to stay skill/utility focused since the vigilante identity covers combat ability.
The latter is more what I was hoping for, variation for the Social Identity rather than diminishing it. They kinda already had one with the Everyman talent.
Maybe instead of a noble or business owner you're a librarian or antiquities dealer, that deals more with knowledge than fame.
Or an artist or musician, with your tours providing a better means to explain why a Vigilante would be an adventurer. As of now there'll probably be a perceived notion that the class may only be effective in a singular urban campaign.
Robin Hood?
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The travelling performer is interesting, especially how it might change things: Instead of a fixed community, perhaps you could access certain benefits like renown/safehouse depending on the size of the current community's performing arts scene... In other words, a meta-community tied to an idea not a specific burg.
I hope the art/product description gets updated soon.
A musician based vigilante?
That's outrageous, truly truly outrageous.
And he's a Gillman, right?
Oread, gillmen, merfolk, whatever, as long she is truly, truly outrageous.
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Could this possibly feature a bit more info on the Twilight Talons?! They are VERY intriguing. I have seen their agents abroad in several Campaign Setting books (offhand I believe I recall them in Irrisen and Numeria CS books).
I am still so hoping for this...would love to get even just a half page of new info on the Twilight Talons.
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Updated with final product image and description!
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While the cover is far too comic cartoonish for my taste, the Secret Academies part is intersting enough.
The Red Mantis Assassins are so obviously absent that i expect big things from them soon.
The Red Mantis was first introduced in Curse of the Crimson Throne.
Curse of the Crimson Throne is getting compiled as a hardcover for the Pathfinder RPG and potentially worked in some places by James Jacobs himself.
Your expectations are probably spot-on.
All I know is when I saw our Iconic Red Raven hit someone I immediately thought to myself "FIST OF RIGHTEOUSNESS!!"
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Intriguing;)
Did not realize I wanted an Anaphexia archetype so much. Just hoping it has a kick to it that really explores what the "thought-killers" are capable of.
Not sure if it will be Mesmerist, Rogue, or Slayer.
A Lion Blade update to Pathfinder is a good fit for this, too. Glad to see Prestige Classes haven't fallen off the radar completely.