New Paths 8: The Trickster (PFRPG) PDF

4.90/5 (based on 9 ratings)

Our Price: $1.99

Add to Cart
Facebook Twitter Email

Most tricksters are always two steps ahead of the competition. A few know how to win before the race even begins!

The trickster is a new Pathfinder Roleplaying Game compatible class which combines arcane magic with roguish skills. Use your special Forte ability to perform incredible acrobatics, summon a magical familiar to act as an accomplice, beguile enemies, or steal spells as they're being cast! Outwit your foes and outrun your enemies.

New Paths 8: The Trickster gives you everything you need to play a trickster whose understanding of the arcane is matched only by his charming and debonair style.

Designer Marc Radle has provided a daring and risk-taking new base class including:

  • 5 new Fortes such as Arcane Accomplice, Beguiling, Spell Pilfering, and Shadow
  • 8 new base class abilities such as Sneakspell and Ranged Legerdemain
  • a full 20-level class that knows when to walk away, and when to run!

Whether you use these powers for good, for seduction, or for power and wealth is entirely up to you—but who says you have to choose just one? Get The Trickster today, wield great arcane might, and have the satisfaction of always being ahead of the pack!

Product Availability

Fulfilled immediately.

Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at store@paizo.com.

KOBTRICKE


See Also:

1 to 5 of 9 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

Average product rating:

4.90/5 (based on 9 ratings)

Sign in to create or edit a product review.

Elegant, efficient, a bit too powerful, but so much needed bang for your buck

5/5

*** I updated my review to take into account the changes and many additions provided in the revised version of the pdf. These updates appear within asterisks, just like this one here ***

The Trickster is a very elegant mix of Bard, Arcanist and Rogue with a suit of specialized abilities based on a Forte that is chosen among four possibilities, and a nod or two to the Arcane Trickster Prestige Class.

*** Post Revision : there are now five Forte available, as well as an archetype that boosts them significantly ***

It is a bit too far on the powerful side for me to consider it quite balanced though and the execution feels a bit odd at times.

*** Post Revision : the overall package is still quite powerful, but the author included advice on nerfing it down. And the additional content (Shadow Forte, revision of the Acrobat Forte and dual-Forte archetype) means that this product now delivers incredible value for its meager price ***

Let’s take a walk through the class.

The presentation is fluid with only some hiccups (going from “he” to “they”, for example).

The Trickster shares its basic chassis with the Bard : Hit die, skill points, proficiencies, spell slots per level and spells known (typo : should have been spells prepared, like the Arcanist). This last one being a mistake IMO, as I will detail further down.

*** Post Revision : Skill points were downgraded somewhat because of the reviews, going to 4 skill points per level since the class is heavily INT based. I did not mind the previous 6 as the Trickster being a master of both Knowledges and Rogue skills fits the stereotype IMO. A minor change of low consequences that still reflects well on the author’s laudable ability to take criticism in stride and try and improve his creation ***

Since the Bard is often compared to what a Rogue should be, using its chassis is a good choice to build the Trickster on.

The Rogue (Core, not Unchained) brings it much of its class skills, sneak attack, trap sense, evasion, uncanny dodge (and improved), though these happen in a delayed fashion that brings a proper overall balance IMO.

From the Arcanist, it gains the INT-based spellcasting mode (including access to the Wizard/Sorcerer spell-list), making the Trickster AFAIK the first ¾ BAB, 6-level caster using this powerful mode.

Regrettably, the critical balancing factor of spells prepared / known is off, since it is based on the Bard’s values that are themselves balanced by the class-specific spell-list. Which is not the case for the Trickster.

As a result, the Trickster actually gets MORE spells prepared than the Arcanist. It is only from 8-th level that the Arcanist will get more powerful through earlier access to high-level spells.

That is the first step that pushes the Trickster on the too powerful side.

*** Post Revision : To answer criticism on how powerful the class was, the author proposes to balance this by the option of making Necromancy and Evocation forbidden schools for the Trickster. I appreciate the effort, but I find the option provided lacking for 2 reasons : 1. It restricts the possibilities given to players for building their PC which is something I’d rather avoid. 2. It robs the Trickster of many spells which help him get the most of his Surprise Spells class feature. Evocation after all is THE school for HP damage.

I would have preferred reducing the number of spells prepared at each level so that the Trickster ends up with less spells than the Arcanist.

That said, once again, the author is willing to take into account criticism and change his creation accordingly and this is really something I applaud, even if the end result is a little subpar for my taste ***

The Trickster is clearly to the Arcane Trickster what the Magus is to the Eldritch Knight : a base class declining the concept behind the Prestige Class in 20 levels. As such it incorporates signature abilities of the Arcane Trickster such as Ranged Legerdemain (though at 9th level, where an Arcane Trickster could get it as a 6th-level character) and Surprise Spells (at 15th level, same character level at which an Arcane Trickster could get it). Nothing unbalancing here. In fact I am not sure why Ranged Legerdemain appears so late.

The Trickster also gains bonus feats selected from a small list mixing Rogue and Wizard’s flavors. I am not sure why the author put these in, maybe to compensate for the absence of rogue Talents, but they do feel both tacked onto the chassis and adding too many goodies to what is already a strong class. Or maybe they were just put there to avoid empty levels, which I would then see as uninspired design. In all honesty, I would get rid of them without blinking an eye.

These bonus feats are the second step in giving this class a bit too much.

The special abilities are IMO what gives a class its singular identity, especially for a 3pp one. And here the author delivers both adequate value and a satisfying take on the magical Rogue concept.

The first Trickster-specific class feature is the choice of one of four Fortes at 2nd level. This choice is exclusive, which mostly begs for feats that would allow a Trickster to pick abilities from a Forte he did not choose.

The Fortes feel odd to me because I think they should have been treated as a single class with 3 archetypes. As is, adding archetypes will be in addition to the Forte choice and these last features will not be changeable, which is needlessly limiting further design options IMO. I do not know why this design option was chosen, but I feel that it might have been a matter of wordcount.

Each Forte explores a theme of the Rogue and how magic can improve it. Which means we need more Forte exploring other themes of the magical Rogue. Paradoxically, the Forte do this better than an archetype would because they are focused on a small set of related abilities. So, in the end, while I believe that base class + archetypes would have been a better design choice, I do not count it against the product’s final rating. I definitely think a Forte about shadow and one focused on sniping are lacking though.

*** Post Revision : There is now a fifth Forte about Shadow : ask and you will be answered by Marc Radle !!! And that at no additional price.

See further down my assessment of this addition to the class’ possibilities ***

A Forte gives its basic ability at 2nd level, an improved one at 5th level and the last one at 9th level.

Note that this makes the 5th level (where the Trickster also gets Sneakspell) and 9th level (where he also gets Ranged Legerdemain) levels of plenty in the Trickster’s ability progression. I must say that I would have preferred a more continuous increase.

The four Fortes we get here are slightly mismatched in power level.

The Acrobat : the tumbling Rogue theme. I believe these abilities should be Rogue Talents or some Rogue archetype. There is not enough magic here to fit the Trickster concept IMO.

*** Post Revision : The Acrobat Forte got magic alright. I think it even became one of the strongest Forte what with increasing base speed, gaining the previous 9th level powers as soon as 5th level (with additional increase to AC later on) as well as a freedom of movement effect and a dimension door one (a bit strange wording on that one but it may be the official parlance for such effects) ***

The Arcane Accomplice : the flanking Rogue theme, served by getting a familiar with its own sneak attack. d4 instead of d6 for damage is not enough IMO to prevent this from being abused. Maybe restricting it to apply only when attacking the same target as its master, or when flanking would have struck a better balance. But I am not enough of a designer to assess this properly. The way its is done here, it is a bit powerful, but not devastatingly so.

The next Forte is the Beguile. Among the four Fortes, the Beguile feels the most like what could have been the main class : the casting Rogue theme. Spells more efficient against a target denied its DEX bonus is one of the archetypical ability people look for in such a casting Rogue class. Increasing the power of Feint to reasonable levels works quite well too. Great job here.

The Spellpilfer : The spell stealing Rogue theme. You temporarily steal a spell from your target’s list and add it to your own. Great building on the theme of spell stealing that is also the basis for the Filch Spell ability (see below). Excellent mechanics, and the short time limit keeps this to a reasonable power level.

Note however that this could be mildly abused by targeting allies with it, as they will voluntarily fail their save against this ability, that is if they do not mind becoming a battery for your spellcasting knowledge. Also this Forte hinges on INT and thus makes the Trickster more SAD than the other ones, which can also lead to characters that are a bit too powerful.

*** Post Revision : The Shadow Forte : the stealthy Rogue theme with some HiPS ability that sounds like that of the shadowdancer, as well as bonuses dealing with/against shadow and darkness spells as well as seeing in any darkness (eventually). That looks pretty strong ***

Other than the Forte, several abilities are also completely new to the Trickster :

At 5th level, Sneakspell adds a touch spell to a sneak attack, in a way similar to the Magus’ Spellstrike. Missing makes you lose the spell however. Improved Sneakspell lets you keep the charge but happens at a level high enough (17th) that it does not become unbalancing.

At 14th level, Filch Spell allows the Trickster to steal the control of a spell for one round. It is well crafted and thematically on spot. So much so in fact that I would not have minded the Trickster gaining it earlier, maybe with a standard action at first, then going to move then swift, similar to the improving action cost of starting a Bardic Performance.

The capstone of the class is solid but unimaginative, as it makes sneak attacks and sneakspells markedly deadlier but it is a mere power increase (and one that kind of comes out of the blue rather than being the culmination of previous abilities), so no bonus point for out of the box creativity there.

Finally, since this base class is clearly inspired by the Arcane Trickster Prestige Class, how do they fit together ?

Going into Arcane Trickster from Trickster is pretty straightforward since you meet all requirements with 5 levels in Trickster. I would advise waiting for the 6th level in Trickster, that gains you +1 to BAB and to all Saves, as well as a bonus feat before going into Arcane Trickster.

Now why would you do this ? Well, the Arcane Trickster gains sneak attack faster and has a few specific goodies (Impromptu Sneak Attack, Tricky Spells and Invisible Thief), whereas the Trickster will strengthen his Forte, gain the Uncanny Dodge chain as well as the best signature abilities of the class : Improved Sneakspell and Filch Spell. In the end, considering that I can find more ways to replicate the Arcane Trickster’s abilities (with feats, spells, items) and that I think them a little weaker, I would stick to Trickster.

*** Post Revision : Dual Forte Archetype.

If you thought Forte were strong, this archetype just takes them over the top. Not only do you gain a second Forte (though functioning at a reduced Trickster level), but your first Forte gains extra abilities at higher level that just bring it to the OMG (though not completely broken) power level. I do not expect those who wish for a more balanced Trickster to look kindly on these. To get this, you sacrifice the bonus feats (sign me in), Improved uncanny dodge (ok by me), as well as filch spell (Take me now. I am ready).

As a GM, I would split this archetype in two mutually exclusive ones (that replace the same features mentioned above) : one that gets the second Forte, and another one that improves the first Forte. YMMV of course ***

CONCLUSION
My initial rating was 4.5 stars, rounded down to 4 for the reasons given here. *** The revision brought it up to 5 stars for reasons mentioned afterwards :-) ***

The Trickster is a very good class that will definitely appeal to those who appreciate the Rogue’s theme but feel that the Core (or even Unchained) Rogue is woefully underpowered in comparison to other classes.
Alas it goes a bit too far on the powerful side for my taste, but the Trickster is so elegantly designed that it should be pretty easy to dial its power down to what you feel more comfortable with.

Still I think that would be best done by its designer and should not be left to the product’s buyers. Because of this and the hiccups in design I mentioned above, I cannot in good faith give this product its 5th star, even though I dearly wish to, if only because it definitely answers a need that went unsatisfied for far too long.

You did a very good job here, Marc. Almost perfect actually and it proved agonizing to choose between 4 and 5 stars for the Trickster. Please, keep providing us with your simple and elegant classes

*** Post Revision : Yes, the Trickster is still too powerful IMO, and I do not like the proposed balancing mechanism. And the new archetype makes it even more powerful. Yet, all this additional material means I am not agonizing about this product's rating anymore. This pdf contains incredible value at a small price and the changes needed to tone it down are easily made. It entirely deserves its 5th star. And as a free bonus, Marc Radle shows what being a class act author is all about, willing to go the many extra miles to add value to his creation by listening to its audience's feedback.

Even if you fear that this class is too powerful, BUY THIS NOW and adjust it to your heart's content ***


4.5/5 short term, 3.5/5 long term

4/5

Review for New Paths 8: The Trickster

DISCLAIMER: I received a complimentary copy of this product in exchange for my review. I received no other compensation, nor am I affiliated in any way with Marc Radle or Kobold Press.
OTHER DISCLAIMER: At the time of this writing, this product was released less than one year ago. Hence, everything in this review, especially the Long Term Rating, should be considered tentative.
This PDF comes in at 10 pages, including six pages of content. After the title page, we get a full-page illustration which is a duplicate of the cover art, and a short introduction before diving into the Trickster base class.
The Trickster class casts wizard/sorcerer spells. It only gets six levels of spellcasting, plus cantrips. It has 3/4 BAB, a low fortitude save, high reflex and will saves, and six skill-points per level. Its casting is intelligence-based, and uses a hybrid between prepared and spontaneous casting.
At first level, the Trickster gets Sneak Attack and Trap Finding, exactly as the rogue class features (though Sneak Attack advances slower than it does for the rogue).
At second level, the Trickster gets to choose a class feature called a “forte,” which gives them minor bonuses in one area. The available forte are Acrobat (mostly just number boosts), Arcane Accomplice (you get a familiar, and your familiar can make sneak attacks), Beguiler (more number boosts), and Spell Pilfer (which gives you an original spell-stealing mechanic).
Then comes the Sneakspell ability at 5th level, which allows you to cast an offensive spell as part of a sneak attack, analogous to the magus’ spell combat ability. After another handful of number-boosts, bonus feats, and class features copied from the rogue, the Trickster gets two more non-numerical class features. At ninth level, Ranged Lengerdmain allows the Trickster to use sleight of hand and disable device at a range (with an increased check DC). The ability is classified as (Su) for reasons that aren’t clear to me (I think it should be Extraordinary).
At 14th level the Trickster gets Filch Spell, which in my opinion is their most interesting class feature. If an enemy caster has an on-going spell that allows the caster to control or direct it after casting (e.g. Aqueous Orb or Flaming Sphere), the Trickster can steal control of the spell for one round by making a check.
After that, we just get more number boosts and bonus feats. And after the class features, the supplement ends abruptly. There are no archetypes, class-specific feats, or class-specific items, nor are their sample NPC Tricksters.
Aside from the cover art, there are a couple small, full-color illustrations throughout this product.

Short Term Use: I had to read the explanation of this class’ casting mechanic multiple times to get how it worked. That is unusual for me, even when I am learning a complete new subsystem. Much of the formatting and language of the class’ casting rules are styled similarly to the presentations of the sorcerer and wizard rules, even when the Trickster rules are actually different, which might confuse readers who are very familiar with the core d20 spellcasting system. Aside from the initial confusion, however, the clarity and presentation of this class are very good.
Aside from selection of bonus feats, there are very few build choices involved in creating a Trickster, making it a solid choice for an NPC that you need stats for quickly.
Balance-wise, this class falls close to the middle of most existing classes. It’s a bit higher on the totem pole than a bard, comparable to an inquisitor, and much less powerful than sorcerers and oracles. That balance point seems to be popular for a lot of campaigns, which once again makes this class easy to use in your campaign. Overall, this product earns a Short Term Rating of 4.5/5.

Long Term Use: Two different Trickster builds are likely to be very similar, and the class is not amendable to multi-classing, both of which may limit how much use you can get out of it years down the road. While it has a lot of class features listed, most of them are rather dull number boosts. Still, the few non-numerical class features it does have can keep it interesting for a while, and might be useful if you are designing archetypes for another class and want to give them Trickster class features. Of course, Trickster archetypes that traded out some of the number boosts would greatly improve this product’s shelf-life, but there are no archetypes in this product. Overall, I’ll settle on a Long Term Rating of 3.5/5, rounded up to 4/5 due to the low price.


5/5

So if you have seen my opinions about New Paths Compendium my views of The Trickster will induce a lot of deja vu. Like a lot of it's predecessors the Trickster class follows a lot of familiar ground and fills in a huge gap but adds a bit of new to make it a real novelty while still feeling like a real part of the game. As a whole that's the main strength of the New Path classes. They feel like they could have been printed by Paizo so its pretty easy to accept them in a game as opposed to completely new kinds of systems like Spheres of Power or sharp changes in balance like Path of War. They simply fit in and play nice with base Pathfinder and as much as I like my crazy stuff like psionic wolfmen from the future, or Aboleth parasite mutants that shoot bears out of their eyes I absolutely love my purchase of New Paths Compendium and products that simply fill in the blanks that the base game leaves behind.

So what is the Trickster? Well in a nutshell it's a 20 level Arcane Trickster in the same way that the Magus is a 20 level Eldritch knight. Its basic chassis is a 3/4 BAB class with six levels of casting. It casts from the Sorcerer/Wizard list so avoids spell list conflicts that I normally have with new classes but does put it's casting a bit ahead of the Magus in terms of raw versatility. It has a spellbook but prepares spells known rather than spell slots, so it casts like an Arcanist (also INT based casting). It has a slower progression sneak attack and at fifth level can use sneak attacks to deliver touch spells which is where the comparison to the Magus comes in. At level 15 it can do the reverse and have spells that deal damage against flat footed enemies deal sneak attack damage which applies to all targets of the spell if the spell does damage to multiple targets in one blast (Yes fireball/No magic missile) making a surprise Burning Hands really sick all of a sudden at late levels.

There's also an option called Forte that serves as kind of a Order/Bloodline package choice that represents a focus. One makes you significantly better at acrobatics checks, one gives you a familiar that does quite a bit of extra things, like sneak attack and functionally giving you the Inquisitor's Solo Tactics with it. One makes feint pretty desirable. One allows you to steal spells but is about the only ability in the entire book that I have serious questions about. Its unclear whether or not the stolen spell is itself negated or if the stealing has to occur within a certain range or exactly when the opposing caster is casting. Either way it looks like it can swipe spells from other spell lists and cast them for a short amount of time. Plus later on they can hijack ongoing spells and control them.

The rest of the class features are mostly filler-ish or expected things. It gets six +1s to a number of skills over the course of the class, three bonus feats from a limited pool or a metamagic feat. They get uncanny dodge/improved uncanny dodge, trapfinding and evasion. One interesting thing is that they can make ranged disable device and sleight of hand checks as if they were using mage hand to do it. Something everyone ever had tried to do before realizing that's not how the spell works. Eventually they can hijack ongoing spells and control them.

In the end I have to criticize an INT based caster with 6+INT skills per level. This can easily be seen as a "better Rogue" from that standpoint alone. Although that's true for a lot of things the class feels like the Rogue dropped all of it's worst abilities and replaced them with good ones. But overall, I like the class. I've seen a few 20 level arcane trickster type classes and this one fills in the checkboxes that I think are the most desirable things about the concept. Using mage hand to steal/disable, steal spells, cast with versatility. I also have to praise the points where it keeps in room for expansion with it's Forte class feature. Its a rather simple class that fits in about 5 pages but it's packed with so many small smart choices that brings it together. The Fortes make the focus of the class drastically different from each other, the Arcanist casting keeps it from being boring but still keeps it spontaneous, stealing control of spells, not shoehorning a talent selection (which would have made for a huge chunk of choice paralysis since spells are also involved.). I think this class fits in great next to the Magus in filling up concepts that fit in the six level arcane caster space and is probably my current favorite chassis for the concept. I think I can confidently give this five stars out of five. I'm sure that others will love it.






1 to 5 of 9 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
101 to 145 of 145 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The most recent 1star reviews are most definitely nerdrage at its worst. Just check the posters' profile and see for yourself. Regrettably these fake reviews also pretty insulting to other reviewers BTW lower this product's rating. I did not imagine people stooping so low. I think these "reviews" should actually be discounted in the rating, or even taken down if the former is not possible.

Not only do they unfairly lower a product's rating and thereby its potential sales, they also devalue the work of honest reviewers on all products.

I propose that a flag system should be available for reviews similar to the one for posts

Community & Digital Content Director

The Raven Black wrote:

The most recent 1star reviews are most definitely nerdrage at its worst. Just check the posters' profile and see for yourself. Regrettably these fake reviews also pretty insulting to other reviewers BTW lower this product's rating. I did not imagine people stooping so low. I think these "reviews" should actually be discounted in the rating, or even taken down if the former is not possible.

Not only do they unfairly lower a product's rating and thereby its potential sales, they also devalue the work of honest reviewers on all products.

I propose that a flag system should be available for reviews similar to the one for posts

We don't currently have an ETA for when a flagging system for reviews will be available. In the meantime, please report these to community@paizo.com for us to look over.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't have any stance on the merits/demerits of this product.

But regarding reviews, Chris Lambertz has said that getting a flagging system for reviews is on the website "to do" list. In the meantime, if you find that a review violates the Community Guidelines, you can report it by sending an email to:

community@paizo.com

So if you think one of the posted reviews violates these guidelines, I'd recommend sending an email with the relevant information regarding the review. I'm a strong proponent of reporting community guideline violations, so to make it extra easy for you, here's a copy of the form letter I use to notify Paizo of inappropriate reviews:

"Dear moderators,

Following Chris Lambertz's suggestion regarding inappropriate reviews:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s1f9?Ability-to-flag-reviews#2

I'm emailing you to note that the review by {PERSON X}, of {PRODUCT Y}, seems to violate the community guidelines.

Here is the offending part of the review:

{QUOTE}

Here is a link to the review:

{LINK}

Regards,

{YOURNAME}"

Hope that helps!

__________

EDIT: Ninja'd by Chris Lambertz himself!

Community Manager

Porridge wrote:
Ninja'd by Chris Lambertz himself!

Herself.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Liz Courts wrote:
Porridge wrote:
Ninja'd by Chris Lambertz himself!
Herself.

Ack! Sorry!


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I take it that the inappropriate review has been removed?

I can find no fault with the ones that remain.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

Actually it looks like more than one review has been excised. A pity, as I found them useful. Partisan-ship goes both ways fans.

Community & Digital Content Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.

For folks asking about the removed reviews, we assume that our customers review products based on their own personal experiences with a given product. In this case, there were very serious doubts about the legitimacy and intention behind the series of reviews that were removed, which we will not divulge publicly out of respect for customer privacy.


Review is up, you can find it and more over on my blog.

After seeing the responses in the thread I'm curious as to what the negative reviews said. I had some criticisms but they did not contribute to a lower review score because;

1. Being similar but better than a Rogue is not hard.

2. One ability needing some research if not possible clarification is not exactly grounds to damn a whole class or nothing Paizo has printed would be worth dealing with.

3. Not being a clever new system of casting or magic resolution is somewhat of a strength for the product.

4. The rest of the abilities being rather limited makes up for the wizard/Sorcerer list being strong, but I admit that it certainly could have been fine having the Magus list.


I've seen a few people hating on the Trickster in comments about it in other threads, but it all seemed to me that they'd not even given the class a chance, but were just trolling to be trolling.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

EZG gave it 5 stars.
That's good enough for me.

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

Thank you for the review, Malwing!


Long story short for the negative reviews

Too many skills
Too good spells
Too much damage
Rogue Invalidated
Magus Invalidated

I wont go into commentary on intent, those are just what I remember as content.

My review was either a 4 or 5 and I stated importantant information in a disclaimer up top, like that I hadn't used a Trickster in game at the time of review.


On the Trickster though, what's everyone's opinion on the Acrobat Forte? It seems like I'm the only one who singled it out as the least effective choice for Forte since most of its benefits can be attained through a Mithril Chain shirt and the AC bonus comes in too late in the game to be effective vs appropriate CR.


I wrote a review and uploaded it here, but not to OBS because it isn't in my OBS library.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks so much for the reviews 137ben and Malwing!

Liberty's Edge

Finally I could get my hands on this and took some time doing a review :-)


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Great review, The Raven Black - pretty much in line with my own thoughts, though we weighed them differently. Well-reasoned, informative review - we need more of them! :)

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Endzeitgeist wrote:
Great review, The Raven Black - pretty much in line with my own thoughts, though we weighed them differently. Well-reasoned, informative review - we need more of them! :)

Blushing crimson-red while bowing deeply to our Master of Reviews' praise :-)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Probably the best review that I've seen, The Raven Black (including the removed ones), especially on the design decisions re: Fortes vs. archetypes and the relative merits of each Forte. I found the commentary on Prestige-ing into Arcane Tickster interesting also - it had not occurred to me that that could even be an option. Kudos!

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Thank you for the review Raven Black! Extremely well-reasoned and considered indeed! Very happy to see you liked the class

You bring up some interesting points that are certainly worth considering. In fact, I'm about to start playing in a new campaign (Hell's Rebels) - I think I might make a few tweaks to the class and then playtest them in this new campaign to see how they work out ...

Stay tuned!

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey everyone! An updated New Paths 8: The Trickster has just been distributed to all the normal channels.

Main updates include:

  • Skill Ranks per Level reduced to 4 + Int modifier
  • Added a sidebar called "Trickster Spells and Balance" which offers a lower-power variant to the standard trickster spellcasting class feature
  • Added a new forte (Shadow)
  • Beefed up the Acrobat forte (added more magic abilities and synergies)
  • Added an archetype: Dual-Forte Trickster


Sounds good Marc, particularly adding stuff to Acrobatics and adding a whole new Forte!


Really like the new update, especially the shadow forte (needs the ability to move stealthily at full speed though). I would love to see a sniping forte.

As for the Improved Forte ability of the Dual-Forte Trickster, I really wish those abilities had been included as part of the original Fortes. That way the new ability that helps set the Trickster apart would scale thru the entire class, and not end halfway thru the class.

Liberty's Edge

Iceman1077 wrote:
Really like the new update, especially the shadow forte ...

Thanks Iceman1077 - awesome to hear you like the update!

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Reposted from a different thread, but relevant here as well :)

DungeonmasterCal wrote:

Ok, here's my take on the Revised Trickster. I even edited my original review with the following text.

The Trickster (Revised)

Ok, at first glance I didn't care for it that much (but I was on painkillers for a bad knee at the moment). I've had a chance to read it over again and I like pretty much everything they've done, with the exception of cutting back Skill Points to 4 per level. I love Skills and having my players use them, so I'll probably house rule it that they still get 6. The new Shadow Forte is a good addition, and the Dual Forte Archetype is a nice addition.

Changing the magic schools to exclude Evocation and Necromancy is something I'm on the fence about. I personally think the Trickster should be able to choose which two schools he excludes himself, but it's a minor quibble and one I'm sure won't be shared by everyone who uses the revised version.

Overall I like the revisions, and it may be the one I offer any players who might like to give the class a try. And like I said, I like skilly characters, so I may keep the 6 per level option from the original version. Good job Marc and Kobold Press!

Hey there DungeonmasterCal, thanks for the comments on the revised Trickster - glad you liked it! :)

Personally, I'm with you regarding the skill points, but I decided that enough people felt 4 skill points per level was more appropriate that I decided to acquiesce, knowing that houseruling back up to 6 skill points per level is super simple if so desired.

Really glad you liked the new Shadow Forte and Dual Forte Archetype! I'm really happy with how both turned out!

Regarding the sidebar detailing the exclusion of the Evocation and Necromancy schools from the Trickster's spell list, keep in mind that's a variant only. The core class still gets access to all the schools, I just wanted to respect and acknowledge those folks who were uncomfortable with the Trickster having the full wizard spell list, so I offered this lower-power variant.

Again, really glad you like the revisions!

Liberty's Edge

Working on my revised Review. Rating goes to 5 stars though not for the reasons I first thought it would...

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Interesting! Looking forward to it!

Liberty's Edge

Marc Radle wrote:
Interesting! Looking forward to it!

Done.

5th star is entirely deserved. I am really looking forward to your next class design.

Thank you for being such a great guy (as well as great designer).


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Revised my review in all the usual places. Feel like a prick for it, but there you go. As a person, I like it less now than before, with the dual forte archetype being imho utterly broken. :/ Didn't penalize it further due to the GREAT revision of the Acrobatics forte and the fact that the update is free. So sorry I couldn't upgrade this to +seal status...I really hoped I could. :(

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Thanks so much Endzeitgeist and The Raven Black for taking the time to update your reviews based on the revised file!

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Agree with Marc, I really appreciate a reviewer updating a review.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey everyone!

A number of folks felt that the archetype should really have been two separate archetypes, and after much consideration, I decided I agreed. So, we have released one final revision to the Trickster today that does exactly that!

Changes:

  • Archetype was split in to two separate (and mutually exclusive) archetypes: Dual-Forte Trickster and Forte Master Trickster
  • Shadow forte made a bit more interesting, flavorful and unique - shadow trickster can now animate and flank with his own shadow!

Hope everyone like it!

Oh, be on the lookout for a NEW New Paths class very soon ... it's sure to be divinely awesome ... :)

Liberty's Edge

Probably should have also said that the revised file has been sent here to the Paizo folks, but I'm not sure if it has been updated in their system/workflow.

If it hasn't yet, it should be soon :)


Shivers with antici....well, you know the rest.


Might want to update the product description.

Liberty's Edge

Isuru wrote:
Might want to update the product description.

That's a very good point!

The Exchange Kobold Press

We can't update the description ourselves, sadly, but perhaps a Paizo gninja can?

Liberty's Edge

Marc Radle wrote:
Oh, be on the lookout for a NEW New Paths class very soon ... it's sure to be divinely awesome ... :)

Well, that be divinely awesome class I hinted at ... it's out sooner than I anticipated!

I'd like to present the just released New Paths 9: The Priest from Kobold Press!

Features things like:

  • Access to more domains and the ability to cast more than one domain spell
  • Full divine (cleric/oracle) spell casting using a unique casting mechanic
  • More domains and can cast either 1 or 2 bonus domain spells per
  • Divine Gift class ability which allows the priest to perform various divine acts at a moments notice
  • Improved Channeling
  • Sacred Bond
  • New feats (including Powerful Channel)
  • A new archetype: Chosen of Nature
  • ... and more

Please check it out! :)

Liberty's Edge

Wolfgang Baur wrote:
We can't update the description ourselves, sadly, but perhaps a Paizo gninja can?

A missive via raven has been sent!


Just reviewed the revised Trickster. Please go and take a look at it and some of the changes that have been made. Thanks!

DMCal

Liberty's Edge

Thanks DungeonmasterCal - really glad you like the changes!!!


Marc Radle wrote:
Thanks DungeonmasterCal - really glad you like the changes!!!

Anytime!


Updated my review everywhere to reflect the changes made.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Thank you End!!!
And thanks to everyone that suggested splitting the archetype in two - I think it was the right call!

101 to 145 of 145 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Paizo / Product Discussion / New Paths 8: The Trickster (PFRPG) PDF All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.