Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Shadows (PFRPG)

3.70/5 (based on 3 ratings)
Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Shadows (PFRPG)
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Rule the Dark!

Embrace the shadows! Whether from the subterranean wilds of the Darklands or otherworldly realms of absolute shadow, heroes can rise from the darkest places. Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Shadows explores the strange paths and subtle abilities empowered by darkness. Discover the secrets of drow, fetchlings, and wayangs—races infused with lightless powers. Within this player-friendly volume are options and secrets for characters of every class, including a penumbral psychic discipline, shadowy rogue talents, and an oracle mystery that plumbs the depths of darkness.

Inside this book, you'll find:

  • Expanded favored class options and alternate racial traits for three races with strong ties to darkness and shadow: drow, fetchlings, and wayangs.
  • Shadow-themed archetypes, including the dusk knight, the gloom chymist, the shadow walker, and the umbral scion, as well as shadowy feats, spells, and magic items.
  • Shadowborn traits available to members of many races, representing characters with just a trace of shadow in their blood.

This Pathfinder Player Companion is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and the Pathfinder campaign setting, but can easily be incorporated into any fantasy world.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-820-5

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Player Companion Subscription.

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3.70/5 (based on 3 ratings)

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Cool, but ...

2/5

There are a lot of nice options here, but I can't bring myself to give this a higher rating because of uncorrected mistakes. It reflects poorly on the entire work to have a non existent feat listed as a prerequisite for this long without an official correction to the content. I understand that mistakes will be made, but for this to have been out for a full year and still not see the prerequisites for Blinded Master fixed in any way. No errata, blog post, or FAQ entry. Mistakes happen, but I can't believe this has not been mentioned before with the amount of time it's been out and the number of rules lawyer people who play this game.


Blood of Shadows gives dark-loving players what they want!

4/5

Thisis a 2016 release from Paizo Publishing as part of its Pathfinder Player Companion series. The cover of this one is by Kiki Moch Rizky and, as is usual in this series, there are several authors.

Presentation
This one is available as both a pdf and a 32 page softcover. I'll be focusing on the print version which is staplebound with thick covers. The entire volume is on glossy paper and in full color. The editing is generally top-notch and the artwork and layout are excellent.

Content
The theme of this tome is shadows and darkness; more specifically it focuses on providing new options to characters who spend (or have spent) a lot of time in the shadows. It mentions some of the creatures you'd expect, but it's really focused more on what happens when races who normally live in the light must instead live in the dark places of the world.

Predictably, it starts out with an introduction which lays out most of what I said in the previous paragraph. It also includes the standard rules index for new rules in this volume. There are a handful of archetypes, about 20 feats, and about 20 other rules options.

The first chapter talks about alternate racial traits available to those who have lived in shadows or light. There are traits for each of the main races of the core rulebook and they are provided with both replacement traits and points for those using the point build system.

Transformed by Shadow covers new traits and feats for Fetchlings and provides new rogue talents usable by fetchlings and by other thieves and the chapter ends with a new archetype for fetchling rogues.

The next chapter is a bit of a reversal and covers the Wayang, creatures from the plane of shadow who are now trapped here. There are new racial traits, feats, favorite classes, and even spells. There's a new eidolon subtype called Shadow. There's also information on Shadow Ink Tattoos and a new path for Oracles: Shadow.

Transformed by Darklands introduces Dro and Half-Drow characters. It provides new racial traits, favored class options, feats, spells, and rules for Shadow as a bloodrage bloodline, psychic discipline, weapon blessings and subdomain.

Shadowy Archetypes provide new Archetypes for shadowy paladins, alchemists, and sorcerers with appropriate ability changes for each.

Fighting in the Dark provides some general and specific tactics for fighting in the dark. It ends up with a selection of magical items which provide light in a variety of ways.

The next few sections provide a couple of pages each on Shadow weapons, shadowy feats, magic items with a shadowy theme, and spells with a penumbral and a shadow theme.

Evaluation
I've never read a Drizzt book, so I may not be the core audience for this supplement, but that doesn't matter. I think a lot of people think about what it would be like to be a shadowy man from a shadowy plane(t), and this book gives you the chance to do just that. There are plenty of options for standard races to be just a little different than their light-loving peers.

I think there are a lot of neat ideas here and the book is nice and thorough with shadowy touches for nearly every class and every race in the core rulebook. If you want to be Drizzt or a medieval Riddick, this is your chance.


Strong, thematic new options

5/5

I really enjoyed this one. It provides good options for select dark/shadow focused races, shadow options for classes (oracle mystery, alchemist archetype, rogue archetype, psychic discipline), theoretical guidance on using and defending against darkness as an environmental weapon, and new gear and spells that provide fun, creative new options.

Highly recommended to flesh out existing character concepts or inspire a shadow themed party or campaign.


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Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

In fact, if someone hooks me up with a vishkanya boon, I will totally roll up a paladin. :D

Contributor

Kalindlara wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Blood of Deceit: Changelings, vishkanya, and kitsune. Three races is a big split - keep it focused!
Not to nit-pick, but can it instead be named something like Blood of the Cunning? "Deceit" implies an innate distrustfulness and deceptiveness in these races, which bugs the hell out of me.

I won't tell you not to be bothered by it - that's not illegitimate. The problem is, "distrustfulness and deceptiveness" seem to be in the nature of the listed races, to a major extent.

Changelings, especially the green widow (which the fluff seems to paint as the default), are literally creatures of deceit. First at conception, again at the crib swap, and seemingly throughout their lives.

Vishkanya and kitsune both have available racial traits focused on disguising themselves as human. Existing vishkanya options are almost myopically focused on that one idea. Kitsune are painted heavily as tricksters and deceivers as well.

Maybe I'm reading too much into things... but I think of it as tiefling-esque. You can play a tiefling paladin, but you're playing against a stereotype. Nothing wrong with that.

Both names (Blood of Deceit and Blood of the Cunning) are sort of missing the point of the brand name, however. Aasimar literally have the blood of angels. Tieflings literally have the blood of feints. Vampires (and dhampirs by extension) are commonly referred to as "creatures of the night," so they both literally have blood of the night. Skinwalkers' blood is tainted by lycanthropy, which is triggered by the moon, so they literally have blood of the moon. And geniekin literally have blood of the elements.

Deceit and cunning don't have that level of connection to a "thing" that connects the races together, because when you get right down to it, all of the aforementioned races are connected by some sort of communal blood heritage; they're suffused with or by something.

If Paizo wants to say that kitsune are officially fey-descended (which I'm sort of "meh" about), then Blood of the Fey could work for them. But Blood of Deceit / the Cunning doesn't fit the naming scheme, and naming is EVERYTHING when it comes to a brand identity.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

This...is possibly the first book my eyes have gone wide over in awhile! I've wanted to make a darkness-themed character but never quite found the mechanics to make it worthwhile or interesting. This book could be so vital to my next character that I'd want to get a hardcopy!

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Blood of Deceit: Changelings, vishkanya, and kitsune. Three races is a big split - keep it focused!
Not to nit-pick, but can it instead be named something like Blood of the Cunning? "Deceit" implies an innate distrustfulness and deceptiveness in these races, which bugs the hell out of me.

I won't tell you not to be bothered by it - that's not illegitimate. The problem is, "distrustfulness and deceptiveness" seem to be in the nature of the listed races, to a major extent.

Changelings, especially the green widow (which the fluff seems to paint as the default), are literally creatures of deceit. First at conception, again at the crib swap, and seemingly throughout their lives.

Vishkanya and kitsune both have available racial traits focused on disguising themselves as human. Existing vishkanya options are almost myopically focused on that one idea. Kitsune are painted heavily as tricksters and deceivers as well.

Maybe I'm reading too much into things... but I think of it as tiefling-esque. You can play a tiefling paladin, but you're playing against a stereotype. Nothing wrong with that.

Both names (Blood of Deceit and Blood of the Cunning) are sort of missing the point of the brand name, however. Aasimar literally have the blood of angels. Tieflings literally have the blood of feints. Vampires (and dhampirs by extension) are commonly referred to as "creatures of the night," so they both literally have blood of the night. Skinwalkers' blood is tainted by lycanthropy, which is triggered by the moon, so they literally have blood of the moon. And geniekin literally have blood of the elements.

Deceit and cunning don't have that level of connection to a "thing" that connects the races together, because when you get right down to it, all of the aforementioned races are connected by some sort of communal blood heritage; they're suffused with or by something.

If Paizo wants to say that kitsune...

I suppose that's fair. ^_^

How do you put changelings or vishkanya in a book, though? I guess you could pair vishkanya with nagaji, but changelings are all alone...


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kalindlara wrote:
Changelings, vishkanya, and kitsune stuff

I cast wall of text as a PM at you. Roll your Will save... :)

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Changelings, vishkanya, and kitsune stuff
I cast wall of text as a PM at you. Roll your Will save... :)

Responding.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'd love to see a "blood of hags" or something similar. Changelings could use some more diversity, since there are so many other Hags out there that could mother them. Not to mention the Occult rules could make for some really fun changeling-tailored options.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Personally I'd like to see some alternate racial traits and favored class options (especially for wayang), but would prefer most of the feats and archetypes be open to anyone to take unless they specifically tie into unique racial traits. I also hope to have some fun shadow spells to utilize and some interesting options for stealth.

...kind of hoping for a shadow ninja archetype, though. And shadow bloodline for bloodrager.


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(Since this thread is supposed to be about the upcoming Blood of Shadows, I forked the changelings, kitsune, and vishkanya discussion over here.)


I'd like to see BoS options for characters specifically lacking a shadow-infused bloodline... like from an ancestor's ill-conceived wish or bargain with a shae, or an parent/grandparent being revived after falling to a shadow's or owb's attacks, or being trapped for a period on the Plane of Shadow. Maybe a shadow-tinged "racial rebuild" feat like the Feyborn options from Heroes of the Wild? Maybe a "shadowdancer" or "shadow ninja" variant multiclass?

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
I'd like to see BoS options for characters specifically lacking a shadow-infused bloodline... like from an ancestor's ill-conceived wish or bargain with a shae, or an parent/grandparent being revived after falling to a shadow's or owb's attacks, or being trapped for a period on the Plane of Shadow. Maybe a shadow-tinged "racial rebuild" feat (like the Feyborn options from Heroes of the Wild)? Maybe a "shadowdancer" or "shadow ninja" virtual multiclass?

These all seem like they could be potential causes for a sorcerer's shadow bloodline (or Eldritch Heritage, etc.)

That said, I welcome more stuff in the vein of the Feyborn options. Those were solid gold, and I'm still sad that Fey Thoughts isn't PFS-legal. ^_^


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I know everyone talks about how focused Blood of Fiends and Blood of Angels were, but with all the alternate versions, they basically transformed tieflings and aasimar into multiple races in those books (not that I see that as a bad thing) which were unified by a common theme.

That's they key, I think - keep the overall theme tight.

I'm looking forward to this one, and I haven't made a 'Blood of' purchase since the first two. After hearing how Blood of Night got all mucked up by becoming a GM reference rather than a player one, I haven't really bothered with the line. Here's to hoping I get pulled back in....


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Kalindlara wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
I'd like to see BoS options for characters specifically lacking a shadow-infused bloodline... like from an ancestor's ill-conceived wish or bargain with a shae, or an parent/grandparent being revived after falling to a shadow's or owb's attacks, or being trapped for a period on the Plane of Shadow. Maybe a shadow-tinged "racial rebuild" feat (like the Feyborn options from Heroes of the Wild)? Maybe a "shadowdancer" or "shadow ninja" virtual multiclass?

These all seem like they could be potential causes for a sorcerer's shadow bloodline (or Eldritch Heritage, etc.)

That said, I welcome more stuff in the vein of the Feyborn options. Those were solid gold, and I'm still sad that Fey Thoughts isn't PFS-legal. ^_^

I third this. The fey alternate racial traits in Heroes of the Wild were amazing. I would love shadow alternate racial traits in this book.


Are there various Changeling and Kitsune racial subtypes in this book? I really would love to see arctic born Kitsune. :D

Also, is it specifically stated in any official pathfinder book that a Changeling will (without a doubt) eventually become (or transform) into a Hag or is this only a possible outcome that can be avoided by some means?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Berselius wrote:
Also, is it specifically stated in any official pathfinder book that a Changeling will (without a doubt) eventually become (or transform) into a Hag or is this only a possible outcome that can be avoided by some means?

Changelings don't naturally evolve - it's quite avoidable.

Extremely short version: At a certain age, their true mother will come calling, trying to entice them away through whispers and lures. Those that do are transformed into new hags through vile rituals, while those that resist the calling stay changelings.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I very much like the theme of this one. One of my favorite NPCs in Paizo's modules is a shae, and kytons are cool as heck (though not sure how much kyton-related things there will be in this PC). Any stuff for fetchlings and wayangs is also great. :)


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Oh, that reminds me, this might be a good book to cover the kyton subtype for Unchained Summoner's eidolon...and/or perhaps a shadow-themed subtype.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Luthorne wrote:
Oh, that reminds me, this might be a good book to cover the kyton subtype for Unchained Summoner's eidolon...

yesssss

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:
Well the last couple of the Blood of X have been...lacking I hope this one is better.
This is my first "Blood of.." book as developer, so I am totally open to ideas on how to make them better, and would love to hear why you felt the last few were lacking. :)

Blood of the Elements was gutted by having too many races in one book. None of them were then given sufficient space to really flesh them out. On top of that, there was a whole lot of other extraneous stuff that ate up space. This product, based on the 'multiple races, and throw in the kitchen sink with everything about shadows' solicitation seems like it will be closer to Elements than to Angels/Fiends. Instead of depth and really getting some options for one race, it's breadth and a shotgun pattern sprayed all over the place.

My issues with Blood of the Night are well documented in a review on the product page, but suffice to say, the book was sorely lacking in usefulness outside the four heritages.

Here's what I look for in a racial Player Companion, in order of importance

* Heritages! (At least four, but preferably in the 6-8 ballpark.)
* Alternate racial traits (At least 10.)
* Racial feats (At least 10.)
* Fluff
* Racial traits (At least 10, plus 2-3 specific ones for each heritage.)
* Favored class bonuses (For all classes that don't have one yet.)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Since this book focuses heavily on the mastery of the shadows, I hope there will be some shadow styled spells and abilities, like claws or tenticles of shadow, or body control through the targets shadows. Engaging a fetchling in a dark place is already dangerous and tricky. This book should provide options that will make your enemies actively stay in the light as much as possible for fear of swift, brutal and violent death from a Player or NPC in the shadows.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Looks like a great opportunity to do for the Shadowdancer what Dirty Tactics Toolbox did for the Arcane Trickster.


Makes me wish we had some light based counterparts.

Contributor

djones wrote:
Looks like a great opportunity to do for the Shadowdancer what Dirty Tactics Toolbox did for the Arcane Trickster.

Andrew snuck some shadowdancer loving into the Dirty Tactics Toolbox too!

When we played with the arcane trickster in the Dirty Tactics Toolbox, we tried to make the class a little bit easier to qualify for (Accomplished Sneak Attacker), added a little bit of support for one of its underused class features (Extra Impromtu Sneak Attack), and made ranged legerdemain a little bit easier to employ.

What sort of love does the shadowdancer need?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This book is so fetch.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
djones wrote:
Looks like a great opportunity to do for the Shadowdancer what Dirty Tactics Toolbox did for the Arcane Trickster.

Andrew snuck some shadowdancer loving into the Dirty Tactics Toolbox too!

When we played with the arcane trickster in the Dirty Tactics Toolbox, we tried to make the class a little bit easier to qualify for (Accomplished Sneak Attacker), added a little bit of support for one of its underused class features (Extra Impromtu Sneak Attack), and made ranged legerdemain a little bit easier to employ.

What sort of love does the shadowdancer need?

For me, the first thing that would be nice is something that would make the Shadow Jump ability qualify for use with the Dimensional Agility feat tree, or at least clarification that it does. I've seen it argued that as written, Shadow Jump does not qualify, and I've seen it argued the other way. But as far as I know, there has never been an official statement one way or another. This could be an opportunity to clarify it once and for all.

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Blayde MacRonan wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
djones wrote:
Looks like a great opportunity to do for the Shadowdancer what Dirty Tactics Toolbox did for the Arcane Trickster.

Andrew snuck some shadowdancer loving into the Dirty Tactics Toolbox too!

When we played with the arcane trickster in the Dirty Tactics Toolbox, we tried to make the class a little bit easier to qualify for (Accomplished Sneak Attacker), added a little bit of support for one of its underused class features (Extra Impromtu Sneak Attack), and made ranged legerdemain a little bit easier to employ.

What sort of love does the shadowdancer need?

For me, the first thing that would be nice is something that would make the Shadow Jump ability qualify for use with the Dimensional Agility feat tree, or at least clarification that it does. I've seen it argued that as written, Shadow Jump does not qualify, and I've seen it argued the other way. But as far as I know, there has never been an official statement one way or another. This could be an opportunity to clarify it once and for all.

You're unlikely to see clarification in a Player Companion; the Player Companion line exists to expand upon the Core Rules, not alter or replace them. Now, an option that expanded shadow jump to work with Dimensional Agility and friends, that's something that's more in-line with what the Player Companion line exists to do.

Silver Crusade

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That would be good. I've had numerous ideas for characters involving shadowdancer and the Dimensional Agility feat tree, only to be told it wouldn't be legal, as I'm sure others here have. Something like what you're talking about would make a lot of people happy (including myself, obviously).


Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Blood of books should focus on one particular race and as the title suggests it should be a race that has developed from a mixing of heritages. Aasimar are a race that is part humanoid and part celestial and there are several celestial races to influence its heritage. Wayangs were once native to the Shadow Plane and Fetchlings are humans that were trapped on the Shadow Plane physically adapted. Wayangs do need a race book but a Blood of isn't the correct format. Fetchlings can potentially work as a Blood of Book because we don't know all the infuences that brought this race into being. Was it the Shadow Planes influence alone, was there interbreeding with various Shadow Plane races (Shae, Shadow Giants, Wayangs, etc.) That is where the Blood of comes in to play.

The race books started off with elves, dwarves, humans, goblins, kobolds, etc. What we need is an understanding that some races need a race book and some need a Blood of book.

Blood of races:
Aasima
Tiefling
Damphir
Slyph
Oread
Ifrit
Undine
Fetchlings
Changelings
Nagaji
Sulis
Skinwalkers
maybe a couple others I am missing but for the most part all the other races need a race book about them and not a Blood of book.
For example just as we had Gnomes of Golarion we need
Wayang of Golarion
Hobgoblins of
Merfolk of
Strix of
Ratfolk of
Drow of
Tengu of
Catfolk of
Gillmen of
Etc.


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Um, if the developers/designers of the game say this works as a "Blood of" book, then who are we to say otherwise?

I'm not only fine with this, but excited for it. However, it will be one of my sons who owns this in our household (however, I will have the PDF as I will be subscribing for this and Anthology). He has a Wayang Oracle whose Stealth ranks are in the 20s at 5th level.


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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Things I would like to see in this:
More on Fetchlings (with some variations?) and Wayang.

A Shadow Mystery (for Oracles)/ Spirit (for Shamans)

An arcane school for Shadows (not as a subset of Illusions, but as it's own Elemental school)

A shadow tainted Spiritualist archetype.

I know that there's a void kineticist, but perhaps a shadow?

A shadow bloodrager bloodline.

Those are some ideas I'd like to see in the book.


I WANT A BLOOD OF KITTIES BOOK!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:


What sort of love does the shadowdancer need?

Unsure about writing something that makes shadowjump work with dimensional agility, since that somehow implies that it does currently not work, what i´m opposed to.

Shadowdancer is my favorite Prestige Class, but it´s actually very awful.
Thematically it suits rogues, but is best with barbarians or fighters because of how it works.
Then it has a bad BAB, bad saves and all abilities are so very limited that they are nearly unusable.
The only really strong thing is the shadow companion and that is a bit too strong in the eyes of many. But very flavorfull, even though shadows don´t have much of a descritpion in the beastiary.
I think the whole PrC could use a rewrite. Class and PrC design has made leaps since then. Think Unchained there. That seems like a very good way to go.

Shadowjumpers tunic was a very nice start btw.
I would compare shadowjump directly with wizards and arcanists shift abilities as well with the monk ability.

Suggestions:
-balance the shadow and other abilites, making them more usefull and more often useable. This might include more work, since it actually means working on the shadow. Seems like the right book though.
-prereqs: dodge and mobility yeah! Combat reflexes? Why? Where is the connection?
-uncanny dodge could be replaced by optional slayer/rogue talents.
-Spell like abilities: Not my main area of expertise, but they seem a bit weak without metamgic somehow. It´s surely a nice gimmick to have on a PC who otherwise focuses on combat and "pet".
Having it give magic levels and enhance a shadow themed caster alternatively might be a great idea.

Contributor

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Hayato Ken wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:


What sort of love does the shadowdancer need?

Unsure about writing something that makes shadowjump work with dimensional agility, since that somehow implies that it does currently not work, what i´m opposed to.

Shadowdancer is my favorite Prestige Class, but it´s actually very awful.
Thematically it suits rogues, but is best with barbarians or fighters because of how it works.
Then it has a bad BAB, bad saves and all abilities are so very limited that they are nearly unusable.
The only really strong thing is the shadow companion and that is a bit too strong in the eyes of many. But very flavorfull, even though shadows don´t have much of a descritpion in the beastiary.
I think the whole PrC could use a rewrite. Class and PrC design has made leaps since then. Think Unchained there. That seems like a very good way to go.

Shadowjumpers tunic was a very nice start btw.
I would compare shadowjump directly with wizards and arcanists shift abilities as well with the monk ability.

Suggestions:
-balance the shadow and other abilites, making them more usefull and more often useable. This might include more work, since it actually means working on the shadow. Seems like the right book though.
-prereqs: dodge and mobility yeah! Combat reflexes? Why? Where is the connection?
-uncanny dodge could be replaced by optional slayer/rogue talents.
-Spell like abilities: Not my main area of expertise, but they seem a bit weak without metamgic somehow. It´s surely a nice gimmick to have on a PC who otherwise focuses on combat and "pet".
Having it give magic levels and enhance a shadow themed caster alternatively might be a great idea.

I wouldn't expect a Player Companion to "unchain" anything. It would be pretty lame for the two rules-focused lines (RPG and Player Companion) to get into an arms race with one another, especially since one of those lines is the CORE rules line. But that's just my 2 cp.

Scarab Sages Developer

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ShepherdGunn wrote:
Things I would like to see in this:

Some of those are happening!

Some of them aren't. :P


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:


I wouldn't expect a Player Companion to "unchain" anything. It would be pretty lame for the two rules-focused lines (RPG and Player Companion) to get into an arms race with one another, especially since one of those lines is the CORE rules line. But that's just my 2 cp.

Not really expecting to unchain things there. Also i don´t think that would be an arms race. Not sure why you think that.

I would see that more as providing an alternative and giving some support to one of the newer (and pretty awesome) books of the Core Line.
Why not have that in a Player Companion?

Also i think you would be a good person to write that, since you put out a lot of really good stuff lately.

Something that actually gives the shadowdancer a good reason to have combat reflexes might be a good idea too.


I would like to see some new published spells with the Shadow descriptor ... that aren't Illusion spells.

With some creative tweaking ... sculpting, manipulating and transforming shadows could easily fall under the schools of Abjuration, Transmutation, Divination, etc.

Shadow-themed magic of all sorts has been tremendously popular throughout all the incarnations of Pathfinder and D&D. It's time to take that popular concept and expand its horizons into some more non-traditional usages.

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Crai wrote:

I would like to see some new published spells with the Shadow descriptor ... that aren't Illusion spells.

With some creative tweaking ... sculpting, manipulating and transforming shadows could easily fall under the schools of Abjuration, Transmutation, Divination, etc.

Shadow-themed magic of all sorts has been tremendously popular throughout all the incarnations of Pathfinder and D&D. It's time to take that popular concept and expand its horizons into some more non-traditional usages.

This is extremely unlikely to happen. "Shadow" isn't a descriptor, it's a subschool. Just like you will not see polymorph spells from schools other than transmutation, it is doubtful that anyone would ever create a shadow subschool spell that doesn't belong to the illusion school. That's simply not how the magic system works. Now, we just got a shadow enchantment spell from Occult Realms, so maybe we could see spells like the one you describe here. But such a spell would be an illusion mirroring the effects of a spell from another school.

Now, hopefully we will see some new spells with the darkness descriptor, but that remains until February to be seen.

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Card Game, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Honestly? I think this would be a prime place for a Kyton subtype for unchained summoners.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Crai wrote:

I would like to see some new published spells with the Shadow descriptor ... that aren't Illusion spells.

With some creative tweaking ... sculpting, manipulating and transforming shadows could easily fall under the schools of Abjuration, Transmutation, Divination, etc.

Shadow-themed magic of all sorts has been tremendously popular throughout all the incarnations of Pathfinder and D&D. It's time to take that popular concept and expand its horizons into some more non-traditional usages.

This is extremely unlikely to happen. "Shadow" isn't a descriptor, it's a subschool. Just like you will not see polymorph spells from schools other than transmutation, it is doubtful that anyone would ever create a shadow subschool spell that doesn't belong to the illusion school. That's simply not how the magic system works. Now, we just got a shadow enchantment spell from Occult Realms, so maybe we could see spells like the one you describe here. But such a spell would be an illusion mirroring the effects of a spell from another school.

Now, hopefully we will see some new spells with the darkness descriptor, but that remains until February to be seen.

That's incorrect, Alex. Look at the Appendix on Pg. 251 of Ultimate Magic where the new Pathfinder spell descriptors (updated from the Core Rules, that is) were first posted.

You'll also find [Shadow]-descriptor in the online list at the Pathfinder Spell Descriptors over at D20PFSRD.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Descriptor-

Also, there's precedent in 3.5 D&D ... where you had splatbook spells with the Shadow descriptor. Witness the Champion of Ruins spells, Control Darkness & Shadow and Shadow Trap.


WotC editing can't ever really be trusted though. The waning days of 3.5 proved their proofreading abilities to be almost non-existent (spells like Mudslide, Wraithstrike, Greater Mighty Wallop...reeks of ultimate game breakers yet they let them slide)

Scarab Sages Developer

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It is true that there is both a (shadow) sub school of illusion, and a [shadow] descriptor (in UM) for things that manipulate or involve travel to the Shadow Plane.

It's also true that is is confusing and unfortunate.

There's a part of me that wants to make a spell just called shadow, which would be an illusion (shadow)[shadow] spell that allows you to enhance creatures' shadows with semi real shadowstuff from the Shadow Plane that made everyone around them cold.

It would, of course, be perfect for a witch (winter witch)/winter witch.

But I won't actually DO that...


Plus, I've seen quite a bit of player confusion over the years with how the Darkness descriptor spells compare-&-contrast with ... and integrate with ... the Shadow subschool and descriptor spells.

Two quality PF 3PP products that also spotlight some really cool takes on Shadow/Darkness game mechanics are Rite's '101 Shadow & Darkness Spells' and Ascension Games 'Path of Shadows'. I highly recommend them both. In fact, Thilo recently gave Rite's entry above as one of his Top 10 3PP products on 2015.

In relation to my first post in this thread, I remember well over a decade ago being fascinated with Sean K. Reynolds take on "alt-shadow" spells ... that being the Lesser & Greater Shadow Tentacle spells in his Magic of Faerun splat book (published as a 3.0 book). They both were listed as: Abjuration (Shadow) spells. WotC never gave that entry errata or updated versions (as they did with many of Magic of Faerun's spells). Those 2 spells indicated to me that shadow-themed spells don't have to be restricted to the Illusion family.


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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

It is true that there is both a (shadow) sub school of illusion, and a [shadow] descriptor (in UM) for things that manipulate or involve travel to the Shadow Plane.

It's also true that is is confusing and unfortunate.

There's a part of me that wants to make a spell just called shadow, which would be an illusion (shadow)[shadow] spell that allows you to enhance creatures' shadows with semi real shadowstuff from the Shadow Plane that made everyone around them cold.

It would, of course, be perfect for a witch (winter witch)/winter witch.

But I won't actually DO that...

AWWWWWWWWW...why not?!


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I can't wait for this to come out. I've got a Fetchling Nightblade (Ascension Games Path of Shadows) and I think this could give me some great things to sprinkle his way.

Looking forward to the Paizo's dev team knocking this one out of the park. Go Owen go!

As for non-illusion shadow spells, see Gloomblind Bolts. Either Conjuration or Evocation. I forget which.


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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:
Well the last couple of the Blood of X have been...lacking I hope this one is better.
This is my first "Blood of.." book as developer, so I am totally open to ideas on how to make them better, and would love to hear why you felt the last few were lacking. :)

Blood of Night: People were expecting a lot of things about/for Dhampir, but most of it ended up about/for Vampire (and that wasn't anounced early enough), not much use for Players.

Blood of the Moon: many hoped for rules to play Lycanthropes, option for them, etc... Skinwalker were a last minute anoucement, which didn't help to them being liked be some, and disliked by others.

Blood Of the Elements: For starter, 5 races thinned the content, people were expecting options à la Blood of Angel/Blood of Fiend, and it had a bit too much fluff.

But Player Companion have been suffering from a strange illness for a while, it seems some people forgot it is meant for players way more than for DM/GM... Maybe it need to go back to being bi monthly, maybe the Campaign Setting line need an increased page count, or be splitted (Campaign Setting becomes for both Players and DM/GM, and DM/GM get their own "companion" line), etc...


Nutcase Entertainment wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:
Well the last couple of the Blood of X have been...lacking I hope this one is better.
This is my first "Blood of.." book as developer, so I am totally open to ideas on how to make them better, and would love to hear why you felt the last few were lacking. :)

Blood of Night: People were expecting a lot of things about/for Dhampir, but most of it ended up about/for Vampire (and that wasn't anounced early enough), not much use for Players.

Blood of the Moon: many hoped for rules to play Lycanthropes, option for them, etc... Skinwalker were a last minute anoucement, which didn't help to them being liked be some, and disliked by others.

Blood Of the Elements: For starter, 5 races thinned the content, people were expecting options à la Blood of Angel/Blood of Fiend, and it had a bit too much fluff.

But Player Companion have been suffering from a strange illness for a while, it seems some people forgot it is meant for players way more than for DM/GM... Maybe it need to go back to being bi monthly, maybe the Campaign Setting line need an increased page count, or be splitted (Campaign Setting becomes for both Players and DM/GM, and DM/GM get their own "companion" line), etc...

You haven't paid attention lately? I loved last year's Ranged Tactics Toolbox, More recently: Heroes of the Wild--very nice, Heroes of the Streets--also very nice, Occult Origins--nice again, Weapon Masters Handbook--people are raving about this, Cohorts & Companions--pretty good, Monster Summoner's Handbook--very nice, Dirty Tactics Toolbox--getting lots of positive feedback... All very Player-centered. Not for GMs much at all.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Nutcase Entertainment recently signed back up for the boards. It's likely that he hasn't seen most of those. ^_^


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The Player Companion line indeed improved a lot and brought forth really awesome things lately! Especially balanced stuff that is fun to play.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

It is true that there is both a (shadow) sub school of illusion, and a [shadow] descriptor (in UM) for things that manipulate or involve travel to the Shadow Plane.

It's also true that is is confusing and unfortunate.

There's a part of me that wants to make a spell just called shadow, which would be an illusion (shadow)[shadow] spell that allows you to enhance creatures' shadows with semi real shadowstuff from the Shadow Plane that made everyone around them cold.

It would, of course, be perfect for a witch (winter witch)/winter witch.

But I won't actually DO that...

I would have it make semi-real shadows.


Fourshadow wrote:
Nutcase Entertainment wrote:

Blood of Night: People were expecting a lot of things about/for Dhampir, but most of it ended up about/for Vampire (and that wasn't anounced early enough), not much use for Players.

Blood of the Moon: many hoped for rules to play Lycanthropes, option for them, etc... Skinwalker were a last minute anoucement, which didn't help to them being liked be some, and disliked by others.

Blood Of the Elements: For starter, 5 races thinned the content, people were expecting options à la Blood of Angel/Blood of Fiend, and it had a bit too much fluff.

But Player Companion have been suffering from a strange illness for a while, it seems some people forgot it is meant for players way more than for DM/GM... Maybe it need to go back to being bi monthly, maybe the Campaign Setting line need an increased page count, or be splitted (Campaign Setting becomes for both Players and DM/GM, and DM/GM get their own "companion" line), etc...

You haven't paid attention lately? I loved last year's Ranged Tactics Toolbox, More recently: Heroes of the Wild--very nice, Heroes of the Streets--also very nice, Occult Origins--nice again, Weapon Masters Handbook--people are raving about this, Cohorts & Companions--pretty good, Monster Summoner's Handbook--very nice, Dirty Tactics Toolbox--getting lots of positive feedback... All very Player-centered. Not for GMs much at all.

Sould have said 50%? (kinda) It's more the "Blood/People/Race of ..." that suffer from what I said. "X Slayer Handbook" suffer from a different problem that is already subject to hundreds of threads/topics.

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