Dm Sothal,
Spoiler:I was hoping for a little more detailed info on those particular spells is all.What exactly? I can't copy the spells, so do you want to know on which spell lists they are on, or which level-range they are?
I don't think I should post more about their effects...
Also I'm sorry if I sound pushy but I wanted a little more clarification that wasn't a huge spoiler I thought. I'm sorry if that upset people.
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I like a lot of the the theme of this book :-p
I always like new casting options.
One major gripe:
Celestial healing makes me sad and I sincerely hope for errata on it. It is exactly infernal healing but worse unless you are caster level 22. In fact level 1 is technically worthless...
Why does good not get nice balanced with evil things?
I could see the rounds per level if it was 1 round per level as in starts off worse but eventually becomes better(when you are actually still playing), or may instead of a full round cast you get it as a standard to at least make it worth it eventually. But infernal healing is just better overall.
If you don't want to buy the book (I cannot figure why you would not!), then it will all eventually be on the d20 or archives of nethys sites....eventually. It appears to be a rather slow process, though. They do have lives, after all.Yeah, you're getting really pushy, dude. You're seriously on every new book thread demanding detailed spoilers on everything.Dm Sothal,
** spoiler omitted **
I do believe there's an oficial polocy, of it going up two to three weeks after oficial street release.
So it's not life interfering with gaming, it's paying costumers getting nice(r) things.
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So. I've gotten a lot of beautiful information so far. I guess what I need more of is more information about the new Bloodrager, if someone would. Please and thanks. I just sorta wanna know what makes it more of a spellcaster in comparison to the base Bloodrager.
Ah. Actually, even though it has magic now, I'm curious about whether the new Fighter gives up any weapon trainings or anything.
The Fighter gives up everything but a bonus feat every so often and Bravery. If you want full BAB and Int-based casting or full BAB and prepared arcane, that's what this is here for. Anything else is probably another class. This is from memory, though.
Bloodrager got cantrips and an expanded spell list (Druid spells 0-4 added), but lost bonus bloodline spells known. To make up for that, you can use your bloodline feats to learn more spells. Your bloodrage loses its AC/skill drawbacks. However, you're delaying all your bloodline powers- no Primalist for you!
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I like a lot of the the theme of this book :-p
I always like new casting options.One major gripe:
Celestial healing makes me sad and I sincerely hope for errata on it. It is exactly infernal healing but worse unless you are caster level 22. In fact level 1 is technically worthless...Why does good not get nice balanced with evil things?
I could see the rounds per level if it was 1 round per level as in starts off worse but eventually becomes better(when you are actually still playing), or may instead of a full round cast you get it as a standard to at least make it worth it eventually. But infernal healing is just better overall.
I am mostly a fan of symmetry, but I am glad the the alignments have their own differences. Sometimes evil is tempting. Why else would anyone serve evil if the afterlife is so terrible?
If you don't want to buy the book (I cannot figure why you would not!), then it will all eventually be on the d20 or archives of nethys sites....eventually. It appears to be a rather slow process, though. They do have lives, after all.Yeah, you're getting really pushy, dude. You're seriously on every new book thread demanding detailed spoilers on everything.Dm Sothal,
** spoiler omitted **
I do believe there's an oficial polocy, of it going up two to three weeks after oficial street release.
So it's not life interfering with gaming, it's paying costumers getting nice(r) things.
Considering there are things missing from those sites beyond the required 2 weeks after street date, it really is life interfering. Archives admits as much on the home page.
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Posted in wrong thread, oops.
I'm glad to see Aroden's Magic Army, which seems particularly potent in the Kingmaker/UC mass combat rules, but is also high level.
Last Azlanti's Defending Sword, Mass references not Last Azlanti's Defending Sword, but Aroden's Defending Sword. "This spell functions as Aroden's defending sword, except..." Presumably that is an easy enough thing to infer for fixes and PFS and the like that care about RAW.
The trait Arodenite Historian seems particularly powerful. Was that meant to be unlimited/day usage?
The trait Reassuring Advice likewise could be clarified, at least in my head, as "grant any human a +1 insight bonus on any [single] attack roll, saving throw, or skill check of his choice"?
Would the Stabbing Spell trait help Force Sword bypass SR, or does the weapon need to deal damage? Based on the wording it sounds like it would help with the Force Sword SR check since the check also happens after you strike the opponent. That's an interesting little combo.
The Nameless One feat seems to at least partially obsolete the Vigilante class... but more options is better. Hopefully the people who wanted an extra identity in feat form will be happy with it.
There's a lot of Bloodrager stuff in here. That's kind of nice to see--the class isn't just being abandoned. Enlightened Bloodrager is particularly interesting. Druid spells!
I find it ironic that Artificer's Curse doesn't function on artifacts. The vagaries of language...
Dissolution seems to have been messed up, perhaps during editing? The material components include a vial of reagents; the spell does not state how they're used or applied, but it sounds as though they might be rubbed on the object in question? Additionally, the spell does 1d0 damage to an item that attempts to reappear in a place that is no longer suitable for it, bypassing hardness. Scary!
Emblem of Greed is listed as a 6th-level Medium spell. That's... unique. If we progress the Medium's 4 levels of spellcasting out to 6 levels, they'd get access to it at level 19, unless the medium's using one of the spellcasting spirits, in which case they use the Mesmerist spell progression and would get access at 16th level. You'd have to buy a page of spell knowledge, but you could do it. Hilariously, although this looks wrong and is almost certainly wrong, I think this is actually a legal and workable spell classification. Should this be Medium 4, or not a Medium spell at all?
Fool's Gold seems like it should last longer and maybe be a 2nd level spell.
The Liquefy spell targets an object, but it's an Alchemist spell. Does this work in any way? Maybe just to allow the crafting of Oils of Liquefy?
Open Arms seems like it's firmly in the "I don't want my BBEG to explode when facing a [insert class here]" camp. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but boy, is it interesting. It seems like it should have been phrased more generally.
Holy crap, Rags to Riches is fantastic, at least for a certain type of character. Say, a Bard. It's another Alchemist spell that can't target the Alchemist, though. Am I missing something here?
Tears to Wine--wow, that's one hell of an enhancement bonus. Presumably the enhancement bonus is limited by the duration; I guess the wine just sticks around for however long wine normally would, and if you drink it at some point, you gain the benefits? Nah, that'd be instantaneous duration, most likely. So I guess the wine loses its ability to impart benefits after the duration runs out? Another alchemist one that can't target an alchemist, too. Hrm.
Foretell Failure seems like it should be at least one level lower than it actually is...
Overall, editing quality seems tighter than many past splatbooks, although not quite as good as some of the more recent editions. A lot of the value here is in the utility spells, and there are a couple of really interesting archetypes.
I was looking over the Eldritch Scoundrel and thinking it was a little weak. That was until I found that it could use spell levels as ki points to power ninja tricks. Thats... amazing.
I think this is the way the ninja class should have been done in the first place. It might actually be possible to build a really good Forgotten Trick user with this archetype.
Stuff about Nameless One
I actually included the whole, "I based this off of the playtest vigilante," bit in my turnover for the Wisdom of Jatembe section. I don't think Nameless One comes close to invalidating the vigilante, not even close. There's a pretty big thematic divide between "X by day, Y by night," and "I give up what I was to become something new."
The best way to put it (and the way I originally pitched the feat) is that the vigilante is Batman and someone with the Nameless One feat is the Phantom. You don't see the Phantom at social gatherings or having a life outside of being the Phantom, after all. If you take the Nameless One feat, you're not trying to lead a double life. You're abandoning your previous life instead.
(Btw, I was the freelancer for Wisdom of Jatembe, Arrowsong's Lament, and the Wards of Stone, or "that super dwarf-tastic magic book," as I like to call it. I'll pop in as I'm able and answer any questions directed at me.)
I was looking over the Eldritch Scoundrel and thinking it was a little weak. That was until I found that it could use spell levels as ki points to power ninja tricks. Thats... amazing.
I think this is the way the ninja class should have been done in the first place. It might actually be possible to build a really good Forgotten Trick user with this archetype.
Oh my god. That's incredible.
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Stuff about Nameless OneI actually included the whole, "I based this off of the playtest vigilante," bit in my turnover for the Wisdom of Jatembe section. I don't think Nameless One comes close to invalidating the vigilante, not even close. There's a pretty big thematic divide between "X by day, Y by night," and "I give up what I was to become something new."
The best way to put it (and the way I originally pitched the feat) is that the vigilante is Batman and someone with the Nameless One feat is the Phantom. You don't see the Phantom at social gatherings or having a life outside of being the Phantom, after all. If you take the Nameless One feat, you're not trying to lead a double life. You're abandoning your previous life instead.
(Btw, I was the freelancer for Wisdom of Jatembe, Arrowsong's Lament, and the Wards of Stone, or "that super dwarf-tastic magic book," as I like to call it. I'll pop in as I'm able and answer any questions directed at me.)
Well, I did say partially! It's probably not the best choice of words, but it's in the same design space, like you explained. I saw a number of Vigilante concepts that simply work better as Nameless One builds... at least until Ultimate Intrigue comes out. Particularly with respect to PFS-style Vigilante builds, where you're almost never in your social identity, Nameless One might just works better.
And you've still "got" the old identity(s)--you'll presumably need to take your mask off to eat, or sleep, or change your shirt, or at some point someone will go all "Batman comic villain" and try to disarm/remove the mask, and then you'll be detectable as all of your old identities again until you get your mask back on.
Anyway, hopefully you didn't take that as a negative! That's just what I was thinking when I wrote the post.
Bloodrager got cantrips and an expanded spell list (Druid spells 0-4 added), but lost bonus bloodline spells known. To make up for that, you can use your bloodline feats to learn more spells. Your bloodrage loses its AC/skill drawbacks. However, you're delaying all your bloodline powers- no Primalist for you!
I may have found my new archetype of choice for my prospective bloodrager!
Dammit...12 days to 27 Jan...
And you've still "got" the old identity(s)--you'll presumably need to take your mask off to eat, or sleep, or change your shirt, or at some point someone will go all "Batman comic villain" and try to disarm/remove the mask, and then you'll be detectable as all of your old identities again until you get your mask back on.
Read the feat again (or when you get Arcane Anthology for yourself); removing the mask is a REALLY bad idea. ;-)
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And you've still "got" the old identity(s)--you'll presumably need to take your mask off to eat, or sleep, or change your shirt, or at some point someone will go all "Batman comic villain" and try to disarm/remove the mask, and then you'll be detectable as all of your old identities again until you get your mask back on.Read the feat again (or when you get Arcane Anthology for yourself); removing the mask is a REALLY bad idea. ;-)
The penalty, at least as written in AA, isn't tied to removing the mask at all:
"If you ever reveal or confirm your connection to your eschewed identities [...]"That sounds to me as though, at least in the privacy of your own secret lair, you can remove the mask to eat or shave or sleep or whatever, but a conscious effort to reveal your previous identity would negate the benefits. There's some gray area as to the effects if you're seen without your mask, at least as written.
The feat does not seem to imply anything about the mask being unremovable, though; I was just talking about the benefits of having the mask on--whenever you take the mask off, all of the divination effects and so on that would formerly stop functioning now start functioning again, so The Risen Pumpernickel can again be divined in his past identity as Tom the Breadmaker. You've got the nameless one identity and then the other identities functionally re-emerge when you're mask-less, even if nobody else can see you.
In the original conception, were you thinking the mask was completely unremovable except on penalty of [terrible things]?
I was looking over the Eldritch Scoundrel and thinking it was a little weak. That was until I found that it could use spell levels as ki points to power ninja tricks. Thats... amazing.
I think this is the way the ninja class should have been done in the first place. It might actually be possible to build a really good Forgotten Trick user with this archetype.
A ninja with ki and spells? Pretty sure they have a major series in Japan devoted to that. :v
"If you ever reveal or confirm your connection to your eschewed identities [...]"
"If a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound?"
My official-not-official answer, for the purpose of this feat, is yes. You take the mask off, you're revealing your identity and taking the penalties. Because even if you can't see them, you've revealed your identity to SOMEONE. (And don't you think the Reaper of Reputation would be eying someone who's effectively expunged their reputation VERY closely?)
That's how I recommend all GMs rule it, in any case.
*hands Alex a cookie* :)
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"If you ever reveal or confirm your connection to your eschewed identities [...]""If a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound?"
My official-not-official answer, for the purpose of this feat, is yes. You take the mask off, you're revealing your identity and taking the penalties. Because even if you can't see them, you've revealed your identity to SOMEONE.
That is a bizarre and unintuitive way of phrasing a requirement that the mask never come off, but if that was your intention, that is your intention. Fair enough!
You could just retain the feat, if it becomes a problem.
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"If you ever reveal or confirm your connection to your eschewed identities [...]""If a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound?"
My official-not-official answer, for the purpose of this feat, is yes. You take the mask off, you're revealing your identity and taking the penalties. Because even if you can't see them, you've revealed your identity to SOMEONE. (And don't you think the Reaper of Reputation would be eying someone who's effectively expunged their reputation VERY closely?)
That's how I recommend all GMs rule it, in any case.
So basically.. You give up the ability to eat?
What about if someone uses a spell to get your old Identity and beat the dc 10+hd caster level check? Or if you get polymorphed? The mask gets pilfered? sundered?
Do you lose your familiar/animal companion/etc? Why didn't the reaper of Reputation pay attention to the before and after the ceremony? IF a tree pretends its not a tree does anyone know?
It's not like wearing the mask prevents eating or drinking, the one illustrated in artwork is large enough to reach behind/under to facilitate consumption. Additionally there are plenty of masks that leave the mouth open, those would also negate the problem.
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Also Full pouch says the copied item suffers a slight reduction in quality.. and then is potentially better than the original? Also seems a bit week for a level 2/3 spell that has a material component.
It's not like wearing the mask prevents eating or drinking, the one illustrated in artwork is large enough to reach behind/under to facilitate consumption. Additionally there are plenty of masks that leave the mouth open, those would also negate the problem.
Obviously, you just learn how to do some ninja tricks to solve the eating problem.
Dm Sothal,
** spoiler omitted **
What exactly? I can't copy the spells, so do you want to know on which spell lists they are on, or which level-range they are?
I don't think I should post more about their effects...** spoiler omitted **
Also I'm sorry if I sound pushy but I wanted a little more clarification that wasn't a huge spoiler I thought. I'm sorry if that upset people.
alchemist, bard, medium, mesmerist, sorcerer/wizard, summoner, level 4 to 5.
Better than Guidance because: higher bonus, longer duration, more than one use. (as it should be, because higher level)
bard, inquisitor, magus, occultist, paladin, psychic, shaman, sorcerer/wizard, witch.
Lesser: level 3-4
Greater: level 5
bard, medium, mesmerist, occultist, psychic, shaman, sorcerer/wizard, witch, level 1
alchemist, bard, cleric, medium, occultist, sorcerer/wizard, witch
level 3-4
hope that satisfies your curiosity.
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"If you ever reveal or confirm your connection to your eschewed identities [...]""If a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound?"
My official-not-official answer, for the purpose of this feat, is yes. You take the mask off, you're revealing your identity and taking the penalties. Because even if you can't see them, you've revealed your identity to SOMEONE. (And don't you think the Reaper of Reputation would be eying someone who's effectively expunged their reputation VERY closely?)
That's how I recommend all GMs rule it, in any case.
So basically.. You give up the ability to eat?
What about if someone uses a spell to get your old Identity and beat the dc 10+hd caster level check? Or if you get polymorphed? The mask gets pilfered? sundered?
Do you lose your familiar/animal companion/etc? Why didn't the reaper of Reputation pay attention to the before and after the ceremony? IF a tree pretends its not a tree does anyone know?
I haven't read this yet, but from what you guys said, penalties come from character intentionally "revealing" their identity and not someone knowing it? So that would mean that penalty wise it doesn't matter if people or some omniscient being knows who they used to be as long the characer isn't like "Oh yeah, you are totally right"?
...I'm suddenly getting image of situation like "I said it already, I'm not Greg I'm MacMysteriousGuy!" "Sure Greg, whatever you say Greg" "Goddang it! We are totally different people!"
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I am mostly a fan of symmetry, but I am glad the the alignments have their own differences. Sometimes evil is tempting. Why else would anyone serve evil if the afterlife is so terrible?I like a lot of the the theme of this book :-p
I always like new casting options.One major gripe:
Celestial healing makes me sad and I sincerely hope for errata on it. It is exactly infernal healing but worse unless you are caster level 22. In fact level 1 is technically worthless...Why does good not get nice balanced with evil things?
I could see the rounds per level if it was 1 round per level as in starts off worse but eventually becomes better(when you are actually still playing), or may instead of a full round cast you get it as a standard to at least make it worth it eventually. But infernal healing is just better overall.
Yeah but that doesn't mean good spells need to suck either. You can design spells for either alignment that are thematic and offer interesting mechanics without having to hard shaft one just to make the other more attractive.
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I don't know, I've never found the actual mechanics of Infernal healing to be that powerful save that it offers healing options to arcane casters. Beyond that it still takes a round to activate and though it offers more healing than clw at low levels it's action economy sucks (it still takes 1 round which is often forgotten) and you still need a minute to get all of its buff which can be hard in a lot of circumstances. That is exacerbated if you're looking to get that bump in combat since Infernal healing gets completely shut down if you are taking pretty much any damage during the healing's run.I'd love to see litany of righteousness get some sort of downgrade.
I like the lower power level of celestial healing... but then, I never cared much for infernal healing either. (I liked the idea that infernal healing was specially designed by Asmodeus to tempt mortals into using the powers of evil for their healing needs.)
Most of the time I see Infernal healing used it is for out of combat healing on arcane casters with wands. So most of that does not matter.
I don't think it is bad that celestial healing scales based on level, I just think it should be more like 2 round per level with a max of 10 rounds.
Or something like 2/level or 3/level and a max of 20 rounds or something. Make good players wait a little longer but get more juice out of it. Or grant a bigger bluff like fast healing 2.
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"If you ever reveal or confirm your connection to your eschewed identities [...]""If a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound?"
My official-not-official answer, for the purpose of this feat, is yes. You take the mask off, you're revealing your identity and taking the penalties. Because even if you can't see them, you've revealed your identity to SOMEONE. (And don't you think the Reaper of Reputation would be eying someone who's effectively expunged their reputation VERY closely?)
That's how I recommend all GMs rule it, in any case.
So basically.. You give up the ability to eat?
What about if someone uses a spell to get your old Identity and beat the dc 10+hd caster level check? Or if you get polymorphed? The mask gets pilfered? sundered?
Do you lose your familiar/animal companion/etc? Why didn't the reaper of Reputation pay attention to the before and after the ceremony? IF a tree pretends its not a tree does anyone know?
I haven't read this yet, but from what you guys said, penalties come from character intentionally "revealing" their identity and not someone knowing it? So that would mean that penalty wise it doesn't matter if people or some omniscient being knows who they used to be as long the characer isn't like "Oh yeah, you are totally right"?
...I'm suddenly getting image of situation like "I said it already, I'm not Greg I'm MacMysteriousGuy!" "Sure Greg, whatever you say Greg" "Goddang it! We are totally different people!"
There's some pretty specific rules to prevent most of that, but yes, that sounds like a situation that could hypothetically come up.
Thank you DM Sothal. That's exactly what I needed. You've been extremely helpful. I apologize if I came off brusque. I just had a strong curiosity about those spells. You have been very generous and I'm greatly appreciative of that.
That is a bizarre and unintuitive way of phrasing a requirement that the mask never come off, but if that was your intention, that is your intention. Fair enough!"If you ever reveal or confirm your connection to your eschewed identities [...]""If a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound?"
My official-not-official answer, for the purpose of this feat, is yes. You take the mask off, you're revealing your identity and taking the penalties. Because even if you can't see them, you've revealed your identity to SOMEONE.
So in reviewing the feat in the context of the product, it looks like my original wording was made a bit vaguer. I originally wrote that if the mask ever came off, you took negative levels; didn't matter how or why. Currently, it says "if you ever reveal or confirm your relation to your eschewed identities," which leaves a fair amount of wiggle room for interpretation. You'll need to wait for Owen's input for more info on this; I wouldn't call myself a reliable source of a ruling on the feat because the feat's current implementation is basically the opposite of how I originally wrote it. (I wanted it to be a REAL penalty to lose your mask to solidify why this was worthy of being a feat compared to the dual identity class feature.)
But I would also use it as written, regardless of some freelancer's preferences.
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I've seen (but can't find) posts in the thread where people have commented about oddities with two of my spells, cylindric reincarnation and celestial healing. I'm going to comment briefly on them, but you'll have to wait for Owen for clarification.
Cylindric reincarnation: In my turnover, the "tradeoff" for cylindric reincarnation was that instead of turning into some random (often gross or build-destroying) race, the spell had a 75% chance to reincarnate you as a Youth (see Ultimate Campaign) instead of an Adult. This is why there's references to monsters gaining the Youth template in the spell. At some point in development, that line was removed. If I had to guess, it might be because the current description of the Youth age category is ageist and maybe Owen wanted to avoid GMs claiming that PCs lost their ability to have or take PC class levels as a result of becoming Youths, but my guesses aren't any better than yours.
Celestial healing: I wrote celestial healing as a "good" mirror of infernal healing in the same was that "holy word" is a mirror of "blasphemy." I'm not sure why the spell is unquestionably weaker than its evil-variant now, but my gut guess is that its a typo. Owen is a rules GENIUS, and there's no way he knowingly let anyone print a spell that was useless at CL 1st, least of all himself. I would expect a not-errata-ruling for this one when he's around again.
The Fighter gives up everything but a bonus feat every so often and Bravery. If you want full BAB and Int-based casting or full BAB and prepared arcane, that's what this is here for. Anything else is probably another class. This is from memory, though.So. I've gotten a lot of beautiful information so far. I guess what I need more of is more information about the new Bloodrager, if someone would. Please and thanks. I just sorta wanna know what makes it more of a spellcaster in comparison to the base Bloodrager.
Ah. Actually, even though it has magic now, I'm curious about whether the new Fighter gives up any weapon trainings or anything.
Hmm. That sounds like it might be a good option if you wanted to go into Arcane Archer. Right now you have to make such a severe choice between BAB and Caster Level.
And Int-based you say? Are the Eldritch Scoundrel and Puppetmaster Magus also Int-based casters?
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That is a bizarre and unintuitive way of phrasing a requirement that the mask never come off, but if that was your intention, that is your intention. Fair enough!"If you ever reveal or confirm your connection to your eschewed identities [...]""If a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound?"
My official-not-official answer, for the purpose of this feat, is yes. You take the mask off, you're revealing your identity and taking the penalties. Because even if you can't see them, you've revealed your identity to SOMEONE.
So in reviewing the feat in the context of the product, it looks like my original wording was made a bit vaguer. I originally wrote that if the mask ever came off, you took negative levels; didn't matter how or why. Currently, it says "if you ever reveal or confirm your relation to your eschewed identities," which leaves a fair amount of wiggle room for interpretation. You'll need to wait for Owen's input for more info on this; I wouldn't call myself a reliable source of a ruling on the feat because the feat's current implementation is basically the opposite of how I originally wrote it. (I wanted it to be a REAL penalty to lose your mask to solidify why this was worthy of being a feat compared to the dual identity class feature.)
But I would also use it as written, regardless of some freelancer's preferences.
That's what I was originally wondering when you started talking about penalties for taking your mask off... I think your original intent is much easier for GMs to manage for most PF gameplay--it just makes some verisimilitude difficult to conceive of, depending on the type of mask you wear. The different versions seem like they're better for different types of campaigns.
My experience actually says that usually Eldritch is associated with Arcane stuff, with both stats being involved with comparable frequence
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My experience actually says that usually Eldritch is associated with Arcane stuff, with both stats being involved with comparable frequence
"Eldritch" is just a general term that Pathfinder uses for magic, although there is more of a slant towards psychic and arcane with the word. But its sort of how "mage" is general-speak for "any arcane spellcaster" or "priest" is general-speak for "anyone who worships a deity."
I like the new wording better for the feat, you're not stuck with a character whose mask ends up skin-grafted to his face cause he wore it so long without taking it off. Also, how is he supposed to lead a new life in public if he is stuck wearing one anyway? Well I guess he can just live with the penalties now and then but still.
It was based off of the Ten Magic Warriors, so he's NOT supposed to lead a life in public.
To each his own, I suppose. :-)
Have gotten the pdf and skimmed through it....like a lot of it...except the Rhetorician Witch archetype...got major issues with it...
1) The main ability is something I let people do anyway for free....heck with decent enough RPing they don't even need to roll a Diplomacy check.
2) The change out of patron spells for a set list seems a little....out of favor as the I don't see the archetype ability doing that...and the spells are kinda meh.
3) Being heard no matter what is kinda neat I guess....and you don't give up anything for it.
It seems like something to encourage Roll Playing over Role-Playing. Hopefully this is not a preview of what Ultimate Intrigue going to be all about.
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It seems like something to encourage Roll Playing over Role-Playing. Hopefully this is not a preview of what Ultimate Intrigue going to be all about.
Or you know, mental stats mean something. I wouldn't like that my character with a high Cha gets shafted on social encounters because I as a player I'm not a great actor. Or that mental stat penalties can just be "role-played away" instead of having an actual consequence.
What my character knows and can do and how well he does it it's not the same as me. You don't ask you players to be actual fencers to play melee characters.
It seems like something to encourage Roll Playing over Role-Playing. Hopefully this is not a preview of what Ultimate Intrigue going to be all about.Or you know, mental stats mean something. I wouldn't like that my character with a high Cha gets shafted on social encounters because I as a player I'm not a great actor. Or that mental stat penalties can just be "role-played away" instead of having an actual consequence.
What my character knows and can do and how well he does it it's not the same as me. You don't ask you players to be actual fencers to play melee characters.
Where did I say somebody has to be a great actor? They should at least try to RP I mean that is the point of the game right?
And in my group people actually RP a low Cha.
So before this archetype came out or with it's release you people would not allow another player to try to counter somebody else Diplomacy rolls?
Forget for a second about the whole Roll vs Role argument....this ability should not be a class ability as it should be a natural part of the Diplomacy skill.
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It seems like something to encourage Roll Playing over Role-Playing. Hopefully this is not a preview of what Ultimate Intrigue going to be all about.Or you know, mental stats mean something. I wouldn't like that my character with a high Cha gets shafted on social encounters because I as a player I'm not a great actor. Or that mental stat penalties can just be "role-played away" instead of having an actual consequence.
What my character knows and can do and how well he does it it's not the same as me. You don't ask you players to be actual fencers to play melee characters.
Where did I say somebody has to be a great actor? They should at least try to RP I mean that is the point of the game right?
And in my group people actually RP a low Cha.
So before this archetype came out or with it's release you people would not allow another player to try to counter somebody else Diplomacy rolls?
Forget for a second about the whole Roll vs Role argument....this ability should not be a class ability as it should be a natural part of the Diplomacy skill.
So is it one of those "Don't create feature that fixes a problem that doesn't exist in rules, leading people to argue about rules because new precedence implies that you can't do this thing you used to do earlier before this class feature was introduced?" things? .-.
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Why do so many threads degenerate into debates? Isn't there another place for this?