Now available!
Noticing a few oddities as I read through it and I'll ask as I finish it but for now I do have a simple question.
Anima at low levels seems to be essentially endless. You gain 1 every turn or two if you use a maneuver. However, from what I can tell the only way you could spend two a turn is if you used 1 to augment a maneuver with your class feature and 1 to augment a maneuver based on it's specific augment option.
To me, this means that unless you invest in a Anima burning feat at low levels then you never will run low or out of Anima points. At the moment I only recognized the healing feat which can only be used once an encounter.
Based on the nature of recovering maneuvers it seems very unlikely that any low level Mystic with even 12 wisdom would ever run dry in a fight.
Is this all intended and am I following things correctly?
Overall the class looks very fun and unique. Only other things im a little weary on is how universally effective the air glyph seems compared to the others as well as how overwhelmingly strong the earth lvl 19 glyph seems. I suspect someone using it properly could keep a high level party immortal. Wisdom modifiers later on will allow a full party buff with only a single anima point as well as a duration that basically shuts down most enemies. Sure, you will be staggered at 0 hp but with even a light fast healing trait you can stay fully functional.
Also curious, do you have many testers for your classes before they are shown to the public? Just wondering if my suggestions here seem useful or too late.
I'll follow up if I find any other things that seem odd.
I did notice that Blade Meditation scales off of how many Animus points they have so perhaps the idea was them to not run out but instead to build Animus as a means of making enemies think twice about attacking them. The description sort of implies the energy is burned off but I see no mention of their Animus resetting back to base value like their maneuvers. Perhaps that would be a flavorful addition?
Font of Animus could probably use some clarification. As it sounds at the moment you can use it out of combat to gain a small pool... however it does not say that you cannot repeatedly use it amass a large pool. A move action roughly translates to 3 seconds worth of time. As a DM who tends to understand and follow things as intended I wouldn't let my players use the ability until the previous pool dissipated but others may have an issue putting their foot down.
Strike of Elemental Devastation: The augmenting section of the ability states a maximum of 3 points can be spent to augment it but that each beam has to be augmented separately. I assume this means 3 per beam but is also capped by your Animus spending max for maneuvers as normal? Essentially 3 per beam but no more than the 4-5 ud be allowed at higher level? Also, only the water beam has a DC save in order to avoid the effect. Is this intended? It seems contrary to the fact that the augment section talks about augmenting the beam effecting DCs as well. If this was intended to be water only I figure it may have specified.
Just smack me if im overloading everyone. lol I tend to be passionate like this with any class I like/allow in my games. So far all dreamscarred classes have been allowed. Only harbinger and mystic worry me a little but I already discussed my harbinger issues before. Perhaps this is due to Path of War Expanded being one of the few books i'v purchased before their actual release? I figure any help to clear things up before final printing would be appreciated.
Thanks for the interesting content.
Also curious, do you have many testers for your classes before they are shown to the public? Just wondering if my suggestions here seem useful or too late.
To give you an idea, the open beta for Path of War: Expanded has lasted for either just under or just over two years now, across four different forums, with constant live revisions and engagement with dozens of posters.
We try to be transparent during the development process ^_^
Riven Hourglass sounds pretty interesting. What sorts of things do they do?
Riven Hourglass sounds pretty interesting. What sorts of things do they do?
Riven Hourglass is a time manipulation themed discipline. Great boosts and stances, good strikes and some very interesting utility maneuvers. Haste and Slow effects are common, as are sickened and nauseated conditions. Some of the higher level maneuvers give extra actions. The discipline plays nice with almost any build and has some great flavor to go with it.
Also curious, do you have many testers for your classes before they are shown to the public? Just wondering if my suggestions here seem useful or too late.To give you an idea, the open beta for Path of War: Expanded has lasted for either just under or just over two years now, across four different forums, with constant live revisions and engagement with dozens of posters.
We try to be transparent during the development process ^_^
Ah, ok. So is there a better place my comments could be posted rather than here? I generally love to follow the step by step process in developing new content. In general I like the feeling of the Path of War classes.
Also, can you possibly give any feedback to the above listed things I encountered? I just want to get a better understanding of the class as a whole.
Also curious, do you have many testers for your classes before they are shown to the public? Just wondering if my suggestions here seem useful or too late.To give you an idea, the open beta for Path of War: Expanded has lasted for either just under or just over two years now, across four different forums, with constant live revisions and engagement with dozens of posters.
We try to be transparent during the development process ^_^
Ah, ok. So is there a better place my comments could be posted rather than here? I generally love to follow the step by step process in developing new content. In general I like the feeling of the Path of War classes.
Also, can you possibly give any feedback to the above listed things I encountered? I just want to get a better understanding of the class as a whole.
I'm one of the other writers for Path of War: Expanded. The two best places to get an idea of our open playtesting are on Giant in the Playground, where we have both a Dreamscarred FAQ Thread and a Discussion Thread. There is also a Discussion Thread here on the Paizo Forums. We've been in playtest for about two years now, so there's a lot of stuff that's already been discussed, but we always welcome more feedback!
Also curious, do you have many testers for your classes before they are shown to the public? Just wondering if my suggestions here seem useful or too late.To give you an idea, the open beta for Path of War: Expanded has lasted for either just under or just over two years now, across four different forums, with constant live revisions and engagement with dozens of posters.
We try to be transparent during the development process ^_^
Ah, ok. So is there a better place my comments could be posted rather than here? I generally love to follow the step by step process in developing new content. In general I like the feeling of the Path of War classes.
Also, can you possibly give any feedback to the above listed things I encountered? I just want to get a better understanding of the class as a whole.
Always be willing to discuss feedback even if you're certain someone else has brought it up in the past. You never know when it will be your feedback that keeps something from slipping past during release.
One of the things I was a little confused by. The Blade Meditation. I assume that where it says "...to grant herself all her remaining witheld maneuvers, then immediately expend them in a raging cadence of arcane power." doesn't mean that they actually initiate every maneuver they were just granted does it? The way it's written to me reads that they are granted all their remaining maneuvers and initiate all of them, but I'm pretty certain that the intent is that action economy prevents that from happening.
Could I get some insight into what happened to the gunsmoke mystic? Has it been fully scrapped or will it show up later on the series?
To quote Myself, From the Other Thread:
Nothing untoward. We didn't have room in this one to add another new disc (Tempest Gale), so Gunsmoke and Gale got moved to the upcoming Supplemental release. The archetype has not been canceled.
One of the things I was a little confused by. The Blade Meditation. I assume that where it says "...to grant herself all her remaining witheld maneuvers, then immediately expend them in a raging cadence of arcane power." doesn't mean that they actually initiate every maneuver they were just granted does it? The way it's written to me reads that they are granted all their remaining maneuvers and initiate all of them, but I'm pretty certain that the intent is that action economy prevents that from happening.
There's a difference between 'expend' and 'initiate'; for instance, many PrC abilities require you to expend a maneuver. An expended maneuver is no longer readied. An initiated maneuver becomes expended, but it's not the only way in which a maneuver might be expended.
Blade Meditation is meant to re-set your maneuver cycle in case you get dealt a bad hand, as it were. It does not cause the initiation of any of those maneuvers.
And it does not reset your Animus pool at all as well, correct? Seems like a do over sort of ability. The causing the energy to burst out thing makes it sound like it would. If not, they could spend all their time self buffing themselves with a increasingly stronger retaliation damage against melee. Although im sure most smart enemies would not hit the thing shrouded in mystical energy. They just get to pelt you to death with arrows. lol
One quick question, I know some disciplines have restrictions when using their maneuvers. I.e Solar wind and maneuvers being usable with only a bow or thrown weapons.
Does Riven hourglass or Elemental flux have either restriction?
No. There aren't any restrictions on any disciplines. Solar wind maneuvers are ranged attacks, that's where the restriction comes from, not the discipline itself. If, for example, you found a way to make ranged attacks with your greatsword, you would then be able to use Solar Wind maneuvers with a greatsword.
Mystic character sheet available as a PDF and in JPG. Take your pick!
Is there a pool point out there with quite so many uses as Animus?
By the way, how do you guys select the granted maneuvers? Let the GM choose, roll dice, what was the more popular method during playtest? Did anyone ever select less maneuvers to refresh them faster?
Also liked very much the theme of the mystic and how it reflects on his class features.
Note cards+shuffling
Part II of my review:
Conclusion:
Editing and formatting are very good - the complex rules-language employed tends to be precise and well-crafted, though there are some discrepancies regarding the consistency of what abilities need saves and what don't. Layout adheres to Dreamscarred Press' two-column full-color standard and the pdf sports numerous gorgeous full-color artworks. The pdf comes with a second, more printer-friendly version as well - kudos!
Chris Bennett and Jade Ripley's Mystic is an interesting class: The heir apparent to the Crusader, the Mystic has a flow in its maneuver availability I very much enjoyed on paper and, from experience, classes with a flow require playtesting. The Mystic, and this is interesting, is not the first Path of War class with a flow: All classes can freely and easily regain maneuvers and as such, there always was the flowing motion inherent in the system. The Mystic takes this up to 11...or at least, makes you think it does: Basically, the class feels like it's afraid of its own self-imposed limitations. We get a class that says: No reliable maneuver-access...unlike the default "you do x, y or z". Which is not bad per se, but it does mean that the class plays less unique than you'd expect from the set-up. A similar process can be observed in my mechanically favorite component of the mystic: The way in which animus increases over the rounds hearkens back to an escalation die-like 13th Age-style mechanic coupled with resource-management. It pretends to require serious resource-management...when it really doesn't.
Animus is a cool mechanic that has the potential to be extremely entertaining...but in practice, the system awards blasting away: If an enemy's still standing after you run out of animus, that slightly limits your options...but not in a manner that is strictly stifling for even a short duration or render it problematic: Basically, I love the ability's frame-work...but it's not really required for the class. Most combats can be defeated sans tapping into the animus-mechanic. Basically, I feel like this class is afraid of requiring the use of its resources and playstyle: It introduces these cool mechanics, these unique tricks, has the mechanical means to provide a flow and then tells you: "You don't need these, but if you do use them, you're even more awesome."
On the design-side, the high flexibility of Elemental Flux and Mithral Current's draw-component are truly astounding and render play with them exciting, though they do hint at another discrepancy. I also absolutely adored the Knight-Chandler's soul candle mechanic, if not all components of the particular execution here.
My intense dislike for skill-check substitutions is back in full swing here; after the Harbinger's maneuvers clothed such mechanics in effects that sported less potential problems, we have them here again...though, again, in a way that does show growth over the original Path of War, with an emphasis on defense and, since it represents more of a personal preference, is not a key component of my verdict. The book does sport some discrepancies with no-save nerfs and the like.
I think, if you're reading this far, you may be one of my readers using the original Path of War or at least being interested in the system. I've rambled on about a narrow implicit playstyle that does not take table-variation into account in one particular context: Unlimited healing. This installment once again does provide such options, which eliminate this pdf for a significant amount of tables, mine included. And then there would be Riven Hourglass. The harbinger's Shattered Mirror *could* be broken in some campaigns and brilliant in others. Riven Hourglass is just friggin' broken, regardless of context or powerlevel. It begs to be abused to kingdom come and you don't even want to know what an evil GM can do with this...or what a halfway decent adventurer group can make with this beast. This discipline needs a serious nerf and some significant limitations to make its utterly broken action-shifting more restrictive. "That's just EZG rambling, he doesn't get Path of War." Wrong. Path of War's emphasis on getting more power, more versatility out of your actions, if anything, exacerbates the problem this discipline poses.
In the end, the mystic does sport some conceptually brilliant mechanic innovations, but is too afraid to truly capitalize on them and make them the focus of the class - to me, this felt like the class, time and again, tries to apologize for its own mechanics, stating: "See, it's not so bad, you still get all your crucial tools when you want them." - and that undermines the unique framework the mystic offers. The harbinger's only issues were one out of place ability and the escalating DCs far beyond any you'd otherwise see. However, its accomplishment boils down to being a fun skirmisher that requires the player to treat it as such. The Mystic, in contrast, has these great flowing set-up mechanics...but doesn't strictly require them. It does feel like the class was revised time and again to cater to the taste of people that did not like the class's random maneuver-mechanics - which, to me, is a shame, because it undermines the unique and compelling identity the class actually sports. Worse, the increased flexibility the maneuvers of the new disciplines offer do look like they were balanced to work with regards to a more limited availability, like there was once the intent to offset the lack of control with more powerful options - something the class no longer requires. And yes, this extends to the animus-mechanics.
While I do consider some options here to be brutal power-creep and yes, broken, there is still a whole lot to like and truly interesting material to be found herein. Still, to me, this falls a long way short of the harbinger. It should also be noted that, while Mithral Current and Elemental Flux on their own are powerful (and Elemental Flux surpasses ANY elemental-themed option in power and flexibility, including Solar Wind), Riven Hourglass is pretty much the equivalent of throwing any sense of balance to the wind - it imho hurts this pdf...and it hurts Path of War as a whole. Even in my most high-fantasy of campaigns, I will not allow this anywhere near my table, which is a first for the series - I can conceive of campaigns where infinite healing is no issue and while I won't run one, I don't judge. Riven Hourglass, on the other hand, begs to be broken in any context.
It should be considered a testament to the quality of the other content herein and the pdf's mechanical innovation that this one does not sink the pdf. Ultimately, the Mystic is an exercise in brilliant highlights and darkest shadows - and hence, my final verdict will clock in at 3 stars. Even fans of Path of War should take careful stock before allowing this pdf, though.
Reviewed first on endzeitgeist.com, then submitted to Nerdtrek and GMS magazine and posted here, on OBS and d20pfsrd.com's shop.
Endzeitgeist out.
I note the Pathfinder OGL description of Solar Wind in the Art of the Blade page includes Guns as one of the discipline weapons, but in the Solar Wind page they are specifically left out of the list of weapons that the discipline can be used with. Which is correct? Can guns be used with Solar Wind?
Edit: I see in the PoW errata that the sentence not including guns is to be taken out, so I'm going with guns can be used with Solar Wind.
You could use guns with solar wind regardless.
Discipline weapons aren't the only weapons you can use with a discipline, they are the weapons that can have special synergy with the discipline which may give a bonus due to feats or class features or the like.
So does the build you want to use have a feat or class feature dependent on using discipline weapons? If no, it doesn't matter. If yes, do you care about those benefits more than about using guns? For that matter, there is a feat to add weapons to discipline weapons so you could have guns as a discipline weapon if you really wanted.
if you have the ability to make ranged attacks with unarmed strikes, it would be totally legal to apply solar wind maneuvers as you punch someone from across the room.