Pathfinder Player Companion: Occult Origins (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Player Companion: Occult Origins (PFRPG)

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Walk the Unseen Path!

Sometimes things go bump in the night, hinting at mysteries that lie shrouded behind the veil of fear. In an old world steeped in magic, some questions can—or should—never be answered, and some investigators find truths so terrible they pray for sweet madness to wipe them away. Pathfinder Player Companion: Occult Origins provides new options for heroes who look beyond the convenient and sensible mask the world wears and plumb the dark secrets underneath. Expand your kineticist repertoire, bolster your phantom's mind, or tie your occult powers to a god. Learn psychic magic, unlock occult abilities for mundane classes, and examine the role of occult characters across Golarion. Occult Origins includes new abilities and tools for every Pathfinder RPG player. Inside this book, you'll find:

  • Incredible archetypes, class features, feats, and spells to broaden the scopes of all six of the new occult character classes introduced in Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures.
  • Uncanny archetypes such as the mind sword, the supernaturalist, the Harrowed Society student, and the primalist that bring occult powers to both core and hybrid classes.
  • Dozens of new mystic spells to augment the power of the mind for both occult classes and arcane and divine casters.
  • New occult feats such as Cranial Adjustment, Haruspicy, and Trepanation that provide esoteric flavor and psychic skill unlocks to any character.
  • Occult rituals from Golarion's lost civilizations, including the Jistkan art of genie-binding and Sarkorian god-summoning.

This Pathfinder Player Companion is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and the Pathfinder campaign setting, but can easily be incorporated into any fantasy world.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-785-7

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Player Companion Subscription.

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Good promises, moderate delivery, bad effort

1/5

I don't think this is a terrible product, by any means. I just feel insulted.

It helps pull in some flavour in some circumstances, and tries to break it in others. The Serpent Fire monk archetype does what it says on the tin and is something that /really/ should have been in Occult Adventures as opposed to this book, as much as I want to like the Karmic monk. The divine spin on Occultist isn't executed great. But enough about all that lame-o pathfinder stuff, let's get down to the meaty avatar/D&D big draw, eh?

The biggest draw for you would probably be the kineticist elements, right? I know it was mine! But I'll say it now; the kineticists are half broken, half flavourless, and a big ol' heaping helping of unclear. Whouh. You think the Occultist was a slog to get through in the original OA? At least it had words. You'll be wishing for rule salad.

We'll start with Phytokineticist, the wood one. First thing you'll notice: The basic utility power is missing. They just forgot to even put it in the book. Ouch. Big ouch. It's not a huge deal, it's what you expect. Trims bushes, does nothing else. But that doesn't make it better; even if you're not missing much, that's still the ICONIC ABILITY of the entire class missing, and somehow that still doesn't take away much!

Phytokineticist. All I can say is "Why didn't you take earth kineticist?". It doesn't do much different from earth kineticist. It even gives you jagged flesh. The defensive power? It gives you some natural armor, which is worse than earth's DR and worse than water's armor/shield bonus. Depending on the campaign you're running, it's worse than searing flesh. The other abilities, things like being able to deal nonlethal damage easily, are all too demanding. You have to be fourth level to effectively deal nonlethal damage, and 9th level to get a VERY mild toxin (maybe sickened for one round? For 3 burn? You kidding me?). The rest almost entirely emulate geokineticist powers, but worse. 90% of the wild talents that are feasibly usable seem to be composite blasts and the rest require you to be ridiculously high level to get mild low level effects. You would do immensely better to just be a fey/verdant sorcerer.

The Void/Chaos/Negative energy/Gravity kineticist is...okay. You get either negative energy or gravity. Gravity is basically just air blasts so you can use the cool negative energy powers while not being useless while fighting undead. Negative energy is a energy blast, so it's pretty good, if you don't plan on running into undead often. If you do...All I can tell you is to take some levels in Life Oracle, play overwhelming, and hope your charisma bonus can give you enough channel uses to not be completely worthless.

Oh, yeah, you don't get a way to bypass the undead not being effected by your blasts. You know, how every other kineticist gets draining infusions, and how fire can sear away fire resistance? Yeah you don't get that here. Draining infusion? Rules as written, it doesn't work, Unless somehow you come across a negative energy elemental. Good luck finding that. You'll need it.

I, and others, tried to ask the developers several times, if draining infusion worked. Never answered, as far as I could tell. Maybe it was, somewhere in the dozens/hundreds of posts in the product discussion. If I cant find it in 20 seconds, though, it should count as completely broken. When you buy a book, it needs to work on it's own. I can understand a editing error or something where you need to put up a FAQ or some very obscure usage where you need to form surf, that's not great, but I can't hold it against you. But this is Kineticist. You get one job when you take this class. ONE JOB. You need to know how to do it. The book doesn't tell you, leaving you and your GM guessing. Spark of life as a phytokineticist, or void kineticist? Screw you.

Then we move on to it's other abilities. Basic utility talent is pretty sweet, on paper. You can create shadows that protect from bright light, increase carrying capacity, and even give small bonuses to acrobatics due to your gravity powers. Oh, and uh, for void kineticists you get gravity and negative energy powers regardless of the blast. Honestly this needed it, so I don't mind

"But wait!", you say, "Protect from bright light? What does this mean?"

You don't take penalties from bright light.

"What kind of penalties?"

Screw you. Stop thinking about it. This isn't a book for smart people. Shhhhhh. No, I took it upon myself to ask. Then I realized several people had asked before me. The devs never responded, so I heckled them until they did. They answered with

"If, and only if, you have some condition that causes bright light to give you penalties, this negates those penalties.
That's it. Full stop. Just like it says, with no other interactions."

So, what counts as that? Vampires protect from daylight, right? No, actually. It means the specific "Bright light" condition, and only that condition, you actually get the same amount of light, so daylight still hurts. Stealth penalties from the bright light condition, right? Those penalties are there specifically from the concept of "Bright Light" in the rulebooks, so it works, right? No, they told me, it doesn't protect from that, because it doesn't reduce the amount of light that hits and reflects off of you.

Yes.

You heard me right.

It creates a shadow that doesn't exist so you can ignore penalties that may or may not exist and some penalties that exist because of the concept of bright light still effect you anyways, except when it doesn't.

WHAT.

No. WHAT?!

The other aspects of Void kineticists, I could go on. There are some cool ones, like creating actual darkness, not having to breath anymore (Awesome), and using gravity mind waves to throw yourself. But really, this is all I'll say more on the matter of the Void kineticist.

They missed the basic point of kineticists. The point is to actually, PHYSICALLY, primally, control the elements. The geokineticist isn't supposed to have some weird bass-ackwards conditions. It's not supposed to have a dozen asterisks on the end of each ability that say "*only applicable in very situational circumstances wherein your caster level exceeds the base 12 strength of a stone crafted by no more than twelve peasant--" NO. You PICK UP 25 POUNDS OF ROCKS AND THROW THEM. No big slog. No intense planning required for every circumstance, no 20ft long list of rules. You are the rock man. You do rocks. That's what you do.

The Void Kineticist? It's just rules. It's just being a really bad sorcerer. That's all it does. It misses the fundamental basis of kineticists as a whole.

As for the other classes:
I hate the medium class on it's own, and the archetypes here don't change that. If you like the base medium, and you want to give this one a spin, I can't say much.

For the mesmerist, some of the tricks seem needlessly nerfed. In one, you can share senses for up to a minute per level, unless you ever open your eyes in which case it immediately ends it and wastes the trick. Why? Is it really game breaking? Couldn't it just be a swift action to delay/restart the trick, with time still wasting either way? Slip bonds is alright, but incredibly situational and I can't see an instance where you'd pick it over the better ones like psychosomatic surge. One of them allows you to make people carry messages without knowing they did it, but you have to volunteer to a mesmerist's tricks so I don't see the point. They add new mesmerist gazes, and some of them are pretty useful. Not worth the asking price of physical, not even really the 10 bucks of PDF.

The divine occultist archetype, Reliquarian. It's what you'd expect and doesn't break the mold at all. I was disappointed with it. It might be my ignorance in Occultist implements, but the book gives you a few suggestions as to what your holy relic is, and then immediately tells you to get stuffed because the necromancy implement is a coin instead of the fingerbone of a saint like it suggested.

I fell asleep reading the the new Psychic rules.

Spiritualist archetype referenced a feat from a book I don't have on me at the moment. It kind of seems like that's what it's hanging on, so if you don't have inner sea guide on you, it's a big window shopping experience that leads nowhere. The remorse emotional focus is ok.

The serpent fire adept, a monk archetype for opening the chakras, is a good archetype. It does it's job. Being a monk, especially one focused on the chakras, it's still as weak as Limbo's tax code.

At around this point the book lost all interest to me. It just couldn't keep me with it's mild successes and huge pitfalls.

Again, it's not a terrible book. I just feel disappointed.

The Good: I can't think of a moment when the book made me want to scream in anger.

The Bad: I was smouldering on a low "What the hell, man?" setting the entire time. It insults your intelligence and doesn't put forth half the effort it should.

The Ugly: You'll never get to be a cool wood-bender and you'll have to be stepping on eggshells with the rules every 5 seconds as a void kineticist. The rest of the book evokes no strong emotions. Just disappointment and very mild enjoyment.


Best of the Origins Books

5/5

Read my full review on Of Dice and Pen.

Occult Origins is definitely the best of the Origins books to date. Paizo has refined the series with each successive book. Occult Origins is a book of mostly “crunch” (i.e. mechanical rules options for characters), but it is the best kind of crunch—the kind that supports the flavour of the setting as well as giving characters fun new options. The material in this book is full of flavour that both expands the world of Golarion and expands our understanding of it. And this only serves to enhance the gaming experience.


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Xelaaredn wrote:
Velisruna wrote:
Two questions on void kineticist. First are undead treated as creatures with a subtype matching the blast's element for effects like draining infusion? Second can I use the grappling substance infusion with singularity? The answer to both of these is almost definitely no but I really feel like they should be yes.
To add to this, pushing and pulling infusions... Do they provoke AoO as if you had the greater feats corresponding to the maneuver they mimic or would you need the feat (and if so would the max distance you can push/pull increase as it should)?

I wouldn't think they would, firstly if its a part of your blast and you're at range then they can't hit you (without reach). Secondly, its a bonus effect to attacking instead of just doing the push/pull in place of your attack.

Silver Crusade

The draining infusion says it works with any simple blast (I had assumed that it didn't actually work with the telekinetic blast, although if there is a creature type vulnerable to that, I'd like to know that as well.) It's not mentioned in this companion, but it's listed as a universal ability in OA anyway, so I'm not sure that matters.

Anyway, the question: can a phytokineticist "drain" plant creatures, and/or can the void blast "drain" undead?


Texas Snyper wrote:
Xelaaredn wrote:
Velisruna wrote:
Two questions on void kineticist. First are undead treated as creatures with a subtype matching the blast's element for effects like draining infusion? Second can I use the grappling substance infusion with singularity? The answer to both of these is almost definitely no but I really feel like they should be yes.
To add to this, pushing and pulling infusions... Do they provoke AoO as if you had the greater feats corresponding to the maneuver they mimic or would you need the feat (and if so would the max distance you can push/pull increase as it should)?
I wouldn't think they would, firstly if its a part of your blast and you're at range then they can't hit you (without reach). Secondly, its a bonus effect to attacking instead of just doing the push/pull in place of your attack.

I should clarify, would them being moved past an ally provoke an AoO for the ally to hit them. Regular bull rush and drag don't, until you have the upgraded from feats.


Xelaaredn wrote:
Regular bull rush and drag don't, until you have the upgraded from feats.


Any official word on what will be happening with the missing basic phytokinesis ?

Scarab Sages Developer

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Haldelar Baxter wrote:
Any official word on what will be happening with the missing basic phytokinesis ?

When we have an official answer, it'll get posted here.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Can one buy a Kineticist's Diadem for the new elements?


Does the Shaman class get an occult-based archetype?


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Berselius wrote:
Does the Shaman class get an occult-based archetype?

Yes. the True Silvered Throne. They have a book instead of a familiar/spirit animal.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

yes, The True Silvered Throne, shaman from the Esoteric order of Palatine Eye. the use a Grimoire instead of a familiar that isn't a spell book and get a clockwork spy servitor.


Damn, I was hoping for something something like gaining a limited version of the Spiritualist's Phantom in exchange for giving up wandering spirit and wandering hex. :(

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gamerskum wrote:
yes, The True Silvered Throne, shaman from the Esoteric order of Palatine Eye. the use a Grimoire instead of a familiar that isn't a spell book and get a clockwork spy servitor.

Odd - didn't think the Order was that into clockworks. Though a grimoire fits them.


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DeciusNero wrote:
Gamerskum wrote:
yes, The True Silvered Throne, shaman from the Esoteric order of Palatine Eye. the use a Grimoire instead of a familiar that isn't a spell book and get a clockwork spy servitor.
Odd - didn't think the Order was that into clockworks. Though a grimoire fits them.

Technically it just uses the modified statistics of a clockwork spy. The actual appearance is that of a golden scarab that can be worn to provide benefits.

Though minor error there...it says it can occupy the 'amulet' slot...I presume that should be the neck slot?


We have a problem: Phytokinesis along with the pure phyto composite blast are missing from the book. Basic phytokinesis is mentioned in the phytokineticist entry, but is no where to be seen. There are hybrid composite blasts, but no singular wood blast.

Edit: Oh, saw the phyto entry on the front page. Yay!


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jabborwacky wrote:
We have a problem: Phytokinesis along with the pure phyto composite blast are missing from the book. Basic phytokinesis is mentioned in the phytokineticist entry, but is no where to be seen. There are hybrid composite blasts, but no singular wood blast.

Former has been mentioned and tentatively addressed already, and just a few posts up, Owen said that they're still pondering an official answer.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Luthorne wrote:
DeciusNero wrote:
Gamerskum wrote:
yes, The True Silvered Throne, shaman from the Esoteric order of Palatine Eye. the use a Grimoire instead of a familiar that isn't a spell book and get a clockwork spy servitor.
Odd - didn't think the Order was that into clockworks. Though a grimoire fits them.

Technically it just uses the modified statistics of a clockwork spy. The actual appearance is that of a golden scarab that can be worn to provide benefits.

Though minor error there...it says it can occupy the 'amulet' slot...I presume that should be the neck slot?

Ah, that makes a bit more sense. X3

Scarab Sages Developer

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Luthorne wrote:
DeciusNero wrote:
Gamerskum wrote:
yes, The True Silvered Throne, shaman from the Esoteric order of Palatine Eye. the use a Grimoire instead of a familiar that isn't a spell book and get a clockwork spy servitor.
Odd - didn't think the Order was that into clockworks. Though a grimoire fits them.

Technically it just uses the modified statistics of a clockwork spy. The actual appearance is that of a golden scarab that can be worn to provide benefits.

Though minor error there...it says it can occupy the 'amulet' slot...I presume that should be the neck slot?

It counts as an amulet. It occupies the neck slot.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

This is not errata or a FAQ, just how I read the ability.

For the id rager, go to the emotional focus in request ion. let's say Dedication. The id rager gets the abilities listed with the dedication emotional focus (that is, the additional abilities a phantom receives for having that focus). Skills and saves aren't abilities, so he gets Iron Will, Dutiful Strike (and he counts as both the spiritualist and the phantom, so if you attack the id rager, he gains the benefits listed), defending aura (when 7th), devoted servant (when 12th - which doesn't do anything for him) and steadfast devotion (when 17th).

Unless the id rager has a slam attack, abilities connected to a slam attack don't apply. So the id rager won't benefit from every ability, and some emotional focuses are better than others.

Hi Owen, thanks for your reply.

As long as this is not an official errata of FAQ, I take it that this is still being discussed?

While my initial reading of the ability is in accordance with your's, one line in the description has caused me to reconsider.

Id Rager wrote:
When the id rager enters a bloodrage, he gains additional powers as if he were a phantom (Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures 78) with the emotional focus he selected as his atavistic focus. He is considered to be both a phantom and a spiritualist for the purposes of abilities whose effect references both a phantom and a spiritualist, such as a dedication phantom’s dutiful strike, and treats his bloodrager level as both his spiritualist level and his phantom Hit Dice when determining abilities and save DCs. This ability does not allow the id rager to become incorporeal.

It was pointed out to me that the qualification that the Id Rager could not manifest in incorporeal form might in fact mean that he could manifest in ectoplasmic form, gaining the slam attacks and armor bonus of that form.

My own observation in addition to that was that a phantom gains "additional powers" that are independent of its emotional focus, and these powers could be seen as falling within the scope of "additional powers as if he were a phantom". I would think that "additional powers" would be those that are not a direct result of a simple increase in hit dice, such as feats, skill points and stat bonuses per 4 hit dice. On that basis, I think it would be helpful if we could get a clear ruling on whether an Id Rager gets the following abilities when raging (these being all the abilities that could potentially be considered 'additional powers'):
1. Manifest in ectoplasmic form (see previous paragraph)
2. Armor bonus and slam damage (these are only gained when manifesting in an ectoplasmic form and so depend on #1, and we would need a clarification on what happens to any physical armor the Id Rager is wearing)
3. Dark Vision
4. Magic attacks (at 10th level, this becomes quite significant!)
5. Devotion (devoted to himself...)
6. Dex/Cha bonus (these bonuses are in addition to the stat increase per 4 HD, and could thus be seen as an 'additional power')

I am not arguing that the Id Rager should get all the above. Rather, I have cast the net as wide as possible so that a ruling concerning those abilites would completely clarify what bonuses an Id Rager gets when raging.

I understand that this is 'just' an archetype, and so it might not be particularly high on the agenda, but would it be realistic to hope for an official ruling on whether the Id Rager gets any (or all or none) of the 6 powers listed above, or even better, a clear list of the powers that an Id rager WOULD get?


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Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook Subscriber

So, reading one of the rituals, an the failure is that Summon Monster XI happens and it attacks..... I hope they meant IX.

Scarab Sages Developer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
FiddlersGreen wrote:
As long as this is not an official errata of FAQ, I take it that this is still being discussed?

The entire question of how and if any official faq system is going to be used for Player companions is still being discussed.

This exact question is not being discussed, and there is no opposing opinion how how the ability reads or works by anyone I am aware of within the office.

Specifying an specific option doesn't give you the most broken thing someone might want to claim it gives is not any reason to think it gives you the second-most-broken thing.

Liberty's Edge

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
FiddlersGreen wrote:
As long as this is not an official errata of FAQ, I take it that this is still being discussed?

The entire question of how and if any official faq system is going to be used for Player companions is still being discussed.

This exact question is not being discussed, and there is no opposing opinion how how the ability reads or works by anyone I am aware of within the office.

Specifying an specific option doesn't give you the most broken thing someone might want to claim it gives is not any reason to think it gives you the second-most-broken thing.

No, but it is reason to think that you would get the abilities it doesn't call out as you not getting. If something says you get the powers of a gelatinous cube except for transparency, of course you will assume you get engulf and acid.

Lots of rules elements are broken and to assume a player will go "ah, but that would be strong, so obviously it doesn't work like that" seems very silly to me considering all of the very strong options throughout pathfinder that ARE intended to work in a way that makes them look "broken" to some people.


Is the Silvered Throne Shaman's Occult Grimoire supposed to allow them to prepare their Spirit Magic spells in their normal spell slots?


I'd like to add my voice to the question of whether void's negative energy draining infusion can be used on undead. I'm also a little disappointed in the wood element, it seems really weak (Especially considering the basic phytokinesis isn't even in there, which is irking when I just paid for it.)

I'm kind of regretting buying this. It's more than a little broken.


I tried searching but I didn't find it, but how "protective" vs light is chaokinesis? Does it just help vs light sensitivity/blindness? or does it also protect vampires and the like?


Perhaps I am not understanding the question regarding void's negative energy drain infusion, but it was said that the negative energy blast has no effect at all on undead, in case you missed it...


Fourshadow wrote:
Perhaps I am not understanding the question regarding void's negative energy drain infusion, but it was said that the negative energy blast has no effect at all on undead, in case you missed it...

Yeah, but it's also said that fire blasts have no effect on fire elementals. Because fire. That's why draining infusion exists, to damage things you normally can't damage.

It also points out you can't use your negative energy to heal undead, and then later it gives you an ability to heal undead with it. So, yeah.

bewareoftom wrote:
I tried searching but I didn't find it, but how "protective" vs light is chaokinesis? Does it just help vs light sensitivity/blindness? or does it also protect vampires and the like?

They didn't bother to explain a lot of things in this book.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

QuidEst wrote:
there are two new disciplines: Enlightenment (Wisdom) and Rebirth (Charisma). Neither regenerates phrenic points

Since all other disciplines do give you a mechanism to recover phrenic points, this seems like a FAQ-worthy oversight. Starting a thread in Rules Questions about it.

Paizo Employee Designer

Abomination and psychedelia also don't.


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When can we expect an answer to the Phytokineticist issue?


Will we be getting answers any time soon, at all?

Scarab Sages Developer

There's an answer for Phytokineticists early in the thread, Mark Seifter gave it. How we're going to make that answer easier to find and archive is an ongoing question, and I can't promise it'll be "soon," just that we're working on it.


Easily fixed with a pen and sticky note. Just copy what is already in here and apply to inside cover! It doubt it gets reprinted, folks. Player Companions never have.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
There's an answer for Phytokineticists early in the thread, Mark Seifter gave it. How we're going to make that answer easier to find and archive is an ongoing question, and I can't promise it'll be "soon," just that we're working on it.

They have top men working on it right now. Top. Men.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Here's what Mark said on page 5:

"Uh, oops! In struggling with wordcount and copyfitting, this being skipped is 100% my own darn fault, not Owen's. Here's something to work with for now, and I'll talk to others about finding some way to get something that counts as official for the purposes of games that need official rulings (like PFS) too!

Preliminary Basic Phytokinesis:

Spoiler:
BASIC PHYTOKINESIS
Element wood; Type utility (Sp); Level 1; Burn 0
You can prune and otherwise garden plants within 30 feet without using gardening tools. You can search wooded areas and other plant-heavy areas from a distance as if using the siftAPG cantrip.
"


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
There's an answer for Phytokineticists early in the thread, Mark Seifter gave it. How we're going to make that answer easier to find and archive is an ongoing question, and I can't promise it'll be "soon," just that we're working on it.

And as for the strength of basic chaokinesis vs light?

"We're working on it, but I can't promise it will be soon." is kind of annoying to hear, since I bought a product that was fundamentally broken. I expect things I buy to work, or at least look like they were checked for huge errors like basic powers missing.


The only thing "missing" is basic phytokinesis. If you are looking for the Chaokineticist to get more things, then you will need to be patient.


Fourshadow wrote:
The only thing "missing" is basic phytokinesis. If you are looking for the Chaokineticist to get more things, then you will need to be patient.

I consider the basic chaokinetic power to be functionally missing, considering it doesn't clarify what the heck the darkness actually does. So that's the two most basic things they had to do, both broken, first level. It's not great.

Scarab Sages Developer

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Basic chaokenesis does exactly what is says. It protects you from bright light.
Do you take penalties from bright light? If no, then it does nothing. If yes, it prevents you from taking those penalties.
That's it.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Basic chaokenesis does exactly what is says. It protects you from bright light.

Do you take penalties from bright light? If no, then it does nothing. If yes, it prevents you from taking those penalties.
That's it.

Owen is right. The secret of basic kinesis is that it often does effects similar to cantrips. In this case, I remembered this old blog, which had an unprinted darkness cantrip called penumbra.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Basic chaokenesis does exactly what is says. It protects you from bright light.

Do you take penalties from bright light? If no, then it does nothing. If yes, it prevents you from taking those penalties.
That's it.

So it automatically cancels out all light? Does it make it easier to use stealth? Are you considered in the dark or in normal light? And does that apply concealment? At what point does it interact with light spells, if ever? Does this make vampires immune to sunlight? Does it protect against hot environments since the sun is no longer shining on you, or is it just a completely flavourless "IF BAD THING SAY YOU GET -2 PERCEPTION FROM SUN DONT MAKE THE BAD NUMBER" and doesn't do any of the above things?

It's unclear as all hell and it kind of matters to know what the basic -kinesises ACTUALLY do, and need clarification as to how phytokinesis and chaokinesis interact with the universal powers, as opposed to having to hunt down the cantrip things are based on that weren't even published, isn't necessarily copying, and isn't explained in the forums, let alone explained in the book I BOUGHT.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Arcutiys wrote:
So it automatically cancels out all light? Does it make it easier to use stealth? Are you considered in the dark or in normal light? And does that apply concealment? At what point does it interact with light spells, if ever? Does this make vampires immune to sunlight? Does it protect against hot environments since the sun is no longer shining on you, or is it just a completely flavourless "IF BAD THING SAY YOU GET -2 PERCEPTION FROM SUN DONT MAKE THE BAD NUMBER" and doesn't do any of the above things?

No.

No.
Light level you are in is unchanged.
No.
Never, except to protect from bright light.
No. It protects against "bright light". Sunlight is different (cf. 'Daylight' spell).
No heat protection. Yes it just protects you from bright light.

Scarab Sages Developer

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Arcutiys wrote:
and doesn't do any of the above things?

Correct.

If, and only if, you have some condition that causes bright light to give you penalties, this negates those penalties.
That's it. Full stop. Just like it says, with no other interactions.

Scarab Sages

For comparison, Protective Penumbra is a second level spell to protect vampires from sun.


Okay, so this has been bugging me.

Aether can animate objects.

Wood can animate plants.

The four Elements can make elementals.

Void (which can utilize negative energy) can't make their own undead minions in a similar manner. They can heal undead but they can't make undead. To me, this makes no sense. If I was running a game, I would probably house rule it that they get a level 5 utility talent that functions like Spark of Life but uses Summon Undead instead of Summon Monster.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Does Pathfinder have a summon undead spell? I'm guessing that (plus wanting to keep it alignment-friendly) is why they didn't get the ability to do so.

Scarab Sages

Dirge bard can animate temporary undead, and anyone can summon skeletons with the skeletal summoner feat.

There are precedents for doing something similar, and both of those are not evil acts.

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