Pathfinder Player Companion: Occult Origins (PFRPG)

3.30/5 (based on 3 ratings)
Pathfinder Player Companion: Occult Origins (PFRPG)

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Walk the Unseen Path!

Sometimes things go bump in the night, hinting at mysteries that lie shrouded behind the veil of fear. In an old world steeped in magic, some questions can—or should—never be answered, and some investigators find truths so terrible they pray for sweet madness to wipe them away. Pathfinder Player Companion: Occult Origins provides new options for heroes who look beyond the convenient and sensible mask the world wears and plumb the dark secrets underneath. Expand your kineticist repertoire, bolster your phantom's mind, or tie your occult powers to a god. Learn psychic magic, unlock occult abilities for mundane classes, and examine the role of occult characters across Golarion. Occult Origins includes new abilities and tools for every Pathfinder RPG player. Inside this book, you'll find:

  • Incredible archetypes, class features, feats, and spells to broaden the scopes of all six of the new occult character classes introduced in Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures.
  • Uncanny archetypes such as the mind sword, the supernaturalist, the Harrowed Society student, and the primalist that bring occult powers to both core and hybrid classes.
  • Dozens of new mystic spells to augment the power of the mind for both occult classes and arcane and divine casters.
  • New occult feats such as Cranial Adjustment, Haruspicy, and Trepanation that provide esoteric flavor and psychic skill unlocks to any character.
  • Occult rituals from Golarion's lost civilizations, including the Jistkan art of genie-binding and Sarkorian god-summoning.

This Pathfinder Player Companion is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and the Pathfinder campaign setting, but can easily be incorporated into any fantasy world.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-785-7

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Good Setting Lore, Interesting Options

4/5

Alright, let's jump into Occult Origins! This 32-page, full-colour book in the Pathfinder Player Companion line was released around the time of the Occult Adventures hardcover book that introduced several new psychic-themed classes to the game. The goal of Occult Origins is to supplement that book, ground it in the campaign setting of Golarion, and add some more options for psychic PCs. Let's see if it achieves those ends. I should flag that the only occult class I've placed is the Psychic, so the ins and outs of the new options presented here are often beyond me.

First up, cool cover! The inside front-cover is a really useful summary of how the different planes connect to or fuel the various new occult classes. For example, it explains how kineticists are linked to the elemental planes, how spiritualist phantoms come from the ethereal plane, and how the spirits that mediums draw upon aren't actual souls or ghosts from remnants left on the astral plane. The inside back cover is just the front cover art sans text. I'll go ahead and mention here, before I forget, that the interior artwork is uniformly excellent.

The first couple pages of the book are a summary of what's inside for each of the six occult classes and an index to the new rules options. This is followed by a two-page introduction that's actually pretty important--it gives specific cultural links in Golarion for each of the six occult classes, turning what can be generic and abstract into a rich addition to the setting lore. The whole concept of the occult in Pathfinder is now much more appealing to me. And did you know that Erik Mona (Paizo publisher) has his own occult library? That's pretty cool.

Next up are sections devoted to each of the six new occult classes. Kineticists get four pages of material, while the other classes get two pages each. Why the discrepancy? I don't know!

* Kineticist: Most people in Golarion wouldn't recognise a kineticist if they saw one, apparently. This book introduces a couple of new elements. The first is Void, which I don't really get it--it seems to be some sort of weird mixture of negative energy and gravity powers. The second is Wood, which is really more of a general nature or even First World-themed power. It does contain a lot of useful utility powers for wilderness (forest) adventures.

* Medium: Some interesting setting lore here. I didn't expect just how unpopular mediums would be in places like Ustalav and Mendev. The book introduces a "Nexian Channeller" archetype which is very focussed on having a mystical third-eye. There's also a new modified archmagi spirit that draws on Nex! Very interesting and fits the setting well.

* Mesmerist: Mesmerists are apparently some of the most common occult practitioners in Golarion, as they skilfully use their powers to gain wealth and political influence. This book introduces several new mesmerist tricks. There's also a new Chelish-themed type of gaze, "Devilbane Gazes" which have extra effects against outsiders. There's also three new spells, with fool's teleport my favourite (it looks like you've teleported away, but really you've just become invisible).

* Occultist: Apparently Osirion is a place of particular strength for occultists, which makes sense. This book introduces a new archetype, the "Reliquarian"--it makes use of religious relics and essentially makes the occultist into a divine caster with one cleric domain. Several new sacred implements are also introduced, themed to particular Core20 deities.

* Psychic: It makes sense that Vudra would have a higher concentration of psychics, but I like the idea that Numeria has several as well due to the influence of strange alien technology there. This book introduces some new phrenic amplifications which look okay, and two new disciplines: enlightenment and rebirth. Both are good, and I actually chose rebirth a long time ago when I made my psychic-monk, Arrius Vext.

* Spiritualist: Spiritualists apparently have a very complicated reception on Golarion, with suspicion from the Church of Pharasma and fear (or disdain) from common folk. There's a new archetype, the Fated Guide, which involves a phantom that Pharasma has sent back to Material Plane with very little memory. I don't quite get it. There's also a new emotional focus, Remorse, that has a great story theme (though I don't understand how it works in practice, having never played a spiritualist).

Next up, the book has four pages of occult-themed archetypes for non-occult classes. There's a "Mind Sword" archetype for paladins (giving up lay on hands and channelling? I don't think so!), a "Serpent Fire" archetype for monks (all chakra-based), a weird "Supernaturalist" archetype for druids, a fairly-interesting "Harrowed Society Student" archetype for arcanists, an "Id Rager" archetype for bloodragers, and a "True Silvered Throne" archetype for shamans (it's themed to relate to the Esoteric Order of the Palantine Eye, but lacks any real flavour).

Feats are the subject of the next two pages. Many of the concepts are fantastic, but their effects are unfortunately bland (a minor numerical bonus to a save or a skill). Feats are more interesting when they allow you to do something you couldn't do before, not when they just provide a bump to a dice roll--there are enough of those in the game already. Still, I love the idea of something like the Cranial Implantation feat, where you walk around with needles inserted into your brain!

Two pages are spent on Occult Rituals, and there are some really nicely-flavoured ones tying into lore elements like the Jistka, the Peacock Spirit, and the Sarkoris God-Callers.

Last up are four pages on new spells. Some are available to traditional arcane or divine casters, while others are for psychic casters only. I think my favourite is jealous rage, which makes a character murderously angry if someone is the recipient of a beneficial spell and they're not. Other good spells include ectoplasmic hand and mind over matter, though I think subjective reality is overpowered with no saving throw.

And there we have it. To my mind the greatest value in the book is how it helps to incorporate occult themes into the Golarion campaign setting. The new rules elements will probably be more hit or miss depending on what you're looking for. Still, it's a book I could definitely imagine using.


Good promises, moderate delivery, bad effort

1/5

I don't think this is a terrible product, by any means. I just feel insulted.

It helps pull in some flavour in some circumstances, and tries to break it in others. The Serpent Fire monk archetype does what it says on the tin and is something that /really/ should have been in Occult Adventures as opposed to this book, as much as I want to like the Karmic monk. The divine spin on Occultist isn't executed great. But enough about all that lame-o pathfinder stuff, let's get down to the meaty avatar/D&D big draw, eh?

The biggest draw for you would probably be the kineticist elements, right? I know it was mine! But I'll say it now; the kineticists are half broken, half flavourless, and a big ol' heaping helping of unclear. Whouh. You think the Occultist was a slog to get through in the original OA? At least it had words. You'll be wishing for rule salad.

We'll start with Phytokineticist, the wood one. First thing you'll notice: The basic utility power is missing. They just forgot to even put it in the book. Ouch. Big ouch. It's not a huge deal, it's what you expect. Trims bushes, does nothing else. But that doesn't make it better; even if you're not missing much, that's still the ICONIC ABILITY of the entire class missing, and somehow that still doesn't take away much!

Phytokineticist. All I can say is "Why didn't you take earth kineticist?". It doesn't do much different from earth kineticist. It even gives you jagged flesh. The defensive power? It gives you some natural armor, which is worse than earth's DR and worse than water's armor/shield bonus. Depending on the campaign you're running, it's worse than searing flesh. The other abilities, things like being able to deal nonlethal damage easily, are all too demanding. You have to be fourth level to effectively deal nonlethal damage, and 9th level to get a VERY mild toxin (maybe sickened for one round? For 3 burn? You kidding me?). The rest almost entirely emulate geokineticist powers, but worse. 90% of the wild talents that are feasibly usable seem to be composite blasts and the rest require you to be ridiculously high level to get mild low level effects. You would do immensely better to just be a fey/verdant sorcerer.

The Void/Chaos/Negative energy/Gravity kineticist is...okay. You get either negative energy or gravity. Gravity is basically just air blasts so you can use the cool negative energy powers while not being useless while fighting undead. Negative energy is a energy blast, so it's pretty good, if you don't plan on running into undead often. If you do...All I can tell you is to take some levels in Life Oracle, play overwhelming, and hope your charisma bonus can give you enough channel uses to not be completely worthless.

Oh, yeah, you don't get a way to bypass the undead not being effected by your blasts. You know, how every other kineticist gets draining infusions, and how fire can sear away fire resistance? Yeah you don't get that here. Draining infusion? Rules as written, it doesn't work, Unless somehow you come across a negative energy elemental. Good luck finding that. You'll need it.

I, and others, tried to ask the developers several times, if draining infusion worked. Never answered, as far as I could tell. Maybe it was, somewhere in the dozens/hundreds of posts in the product discussion. If I cant find it in 20 seconds, though, it should count as completely broken. When you buy a book, it needs to work on it's own. I can understand a editing error or something where you need to put up a FAQ or some very obscure usage where you need to form surf, that's not great, but I can't hold it against you. But this is Kineticist. You get one job when you take this class. ONE JOB. You need to know how to do it. The book doesn't tell you, leaving you and your GM guessing. Spark of life as a phytokineticist, or void kineticist? Screw you.

Then we move on to it's other abilities. Basic utility talent is pretty sweet, on paper. You can create shadows that protect from bright light, increase carrying capacity, and even give small bonuses to acrobatics due to your gravity powers. Oh, and uh, for void kineticists you get gravity and negative energy powers regardless of the blast. Honestly this needed it, so I don't mind

"But wait!", you say, "Protect from bright light? What does this mean?"

You don't take penalties from bright light.

"What kind of penalties?"

Screw you. Stop thinking about it. This isn't a book for smart people. Shhhhhh. No, I took it upon myself to ask. Then I realized several people had asked before me. The devs never responded, so I heckled them until they did. They answered with

"If, and only if, you have some condition that causes bright light to give you penalties, this negates those penalties.
That's it. Full stop. Just like it says, with no other interactions."

So, what counts as that? Vampires protect from daylight, right? No, actually. It means the specific "Bright light" condition, and only that condition, you actually get the same amount of light, so daylight still hurts. Stealth penalties from the bright light condition, right? Those penalties are there specifically from the concept of "Bright Light" in the rulebooks, so it works, right? No, they told me, it doesn't protect from that, because it doesn't reduce the amount of light that hits and reflects off of you.

Yes.

You heard me right.

It creates a shadow that doesn't exist so you can ignore penalties that may or may not exist and some penalties that exist because of the concept of bright light still effect you anyways, except when it doesn't.

WHAT.

No. WHAT?!

The other aspects of Void kineticists, I could go on. There are some cool ones, like creating actual darkness, not having to breath anymore (Awesome), and using gravity mind waves to throw yourself. But really, this is all I'll say more on the matter of the Void kineticist.

They missed the basic point of kineticists. The point is to actually, PHYSICALLY, primally, control the elements. The geokineticist isn't supposed to have some weird bass-ackwards conditions. It's not supposed to have a dozen asterisks on the end of each ability that say "*only applicable in very situational circumstances wherein your caster level exceeds the base 12 strength of a stone crafted by no more than twelve peasant--" NO. You PICK UP 25 POUNDS OF ROCKS AND THROW THEM. No big slog. No intense planning required for every circumstance, no 20ft long list of rules. You are the rock man. You do rocks. That's what you do.

The Void Kineticist? It's just rules. It's just being a really bad sorcerer. That's all it does. It misses the fundamental basis of kineticists as a whole.

As for the other classes:
I hate the medium class on it's own, and the archetypes here don't change that. If you like the base medium, and you want to give this one a spin, I can't say much.

For the mesmerist, some of the tricks seem needlessly nerfed. In one, you can share senses for up to a minute per level, unless you ever open your eyes in which case it immediately ends it and wastes the trick. Why? Is it really game breaking? Couldn't it just be a swift action to delay/restart the trick, with time still wasting either way? Slip bonds is alright, but incredibly situational and I can't see an instance where you'd pick it over the better ones like psychosomatic surge. One of them allows you to make people carry messages without knowing they did it, but you have to volunteer to a mesmerist's tricks so I don't see the point. They add new mesmerist gazes, and some of them are pretty useful. Not worth the asking price of physical, not even really the 10 bucks of PDF.

The divine occultist archetype, Reliquarian. It's what you'd expect and doesn't break the mold at all. I was disappointed with it. It might be my ignorance in Occultist implements, but the book gives you a few suggestions as to what your holy relic is, and then immediately tells you to get stuffed because the necromancy implement is a coin instead of the fingerbone of a saint like it suggested.

I fell asleep reading the the new Psychic rules.

Spiritualist archetype referenced a feat from a book I don't have on me at the moment. It kind of seems like that's what it's hanging on, so if you don't have inner sea guide on you, it's a big window shopping experience that leads nowhere. The remorse emotional focus is ok.

The serpent fire adept, a monk archetype for opening the chakras, is a good archetype. It does it's job. Being a monk, especially one focused on the chakras, it's still as weak as Limbo's tax code.

At around this point the book lost all interest to me. It just couldn't keep me with it's mild successes and huge pitfalls.

Again, it's not a terrible book. I just feel disappointed.

The Good: I can't think of a moment when the book made me want to scream in anger.

The Bad: I was smouldering on a low "What the hell, man?" setting the entire time. It insults your intelligence and doesn't put forth half the effort it should.

The Ugly: You'll never get to be a cool wood-bender and you'll have to be stepping on eggshells with the rules every 5 seconds as a void kineticist. The rest of the book evokes no strong emotions. Just disappointment and very mild enjoyment.


Best of the Origins Books

5/5

Read my full review on Of Dice and Pen.

Occult Origins is definitely the best of the Origins books to date. Paizo has refined the series with each successive book. Occult Origins is a book of mostly “crunch” (i.e. mechanical rules options for characters), but it is the best kind of crunch—the kind that supports the flavour of the setting as well as giving characters fun new options. The material in this book is full of flavour that both expands the world of Golarion and expands our understanding of it. And this only serves to enhance the gaming experience.


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Also, any chance we can get a mystic theurge style prestige class for kineticist? or an official ruling on how they function with +1 level spellcasting. I am thinking of a kineticist/rogue/arcane trickster.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Skaeren wrote:
what do you think of the new types? interesting?

I'd say they are. I wasn't really motivated to make a kineticist before, but now... ^_^

Skaeren wrote:
Also, any chance we can get a mystic theurge style prestige class for kineticist? or an official ruling on how they function with +1 level spellcasting. I am thinking of a kineticist/rogue/arcane trickster.

Almost 0% chance of the latter. Unfortunately, kineticists' powers are as far from spellcasting as they could get.

A prestige class to combine them with other classes could be interesting, though.


what are the utility talents like, overall?

Sovereign Court

Secret Wizard wrote:

I thought about that. Sneak Attack on top of it, granted from Hatred, seems quite fitting.

It's still a CRAZY specific archetype combination to make Id work.

Maybe Remorse is more workable?

I don't have the pdf on hand right now, but I know the first ability requires a slam to use.


Skaeren wrote:
what are the utility talents like, overall?

If you read through this thread, the new kineticist options were detailed in almost excruciating detail, down to minor summaries of almost every talent.


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Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
QuidEst wrote:
Barachiel Shina wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
How exactly would Fool's Teleport ever work? The moment a PC identifies it with a Spellcrafts check, they are no longer fooled.
That's the fun part- it's a will save to misidentify the spell. So a good spellcraft roll is actually more convincing.

That really should be the default on all illusion/enchantment spells with Will saves.

Dark Archive

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Alright, I noticed a -major- discrepancy in this book, and I hope I'm not repeating anything already said by someone else.

For the Phytokineticist/Wood Element entry to the Kineticist class, there is no listing for what the Basic Phytokinesis ability actually does among the Wild Talents, nor does there appear to be a Composite Blast that exists for further specializing in Wood via Expanded Element. The latter could've just been deliberate I suppose (though really, why would you not have that?), but the former is not just a small error, since any character starting with Wood as their Element -automatically gains Basic Phytokinesis, just like any other Element with their respective basic kinesis ability.

What's going to be done for this?

Silver Crusade Contributor

GrimmDichotomy wrote:

Alright, I noticed a -major- discrepancy in this book, and I hope I'm not repeating anything already said by someone else.

For the Phytokineticist/Wood Element entry to the Kineticist class, there is no listing for what the Basic Phytokinesis ability actually does among the Wild Talents, nor does there appear to be a Composite Blast that exists for further specializing in Wood via Expanded Element. The latter could've just been deliberate I suppose (though really, why would you not have that?), but the former is not just a small error, since any character starting with Wood as their Element -automatically gains Basic Phytokinesis, just like any other Element with their respective basic kinesis ability.

What's going to be done for this?

Please read the last two to three pages - the answers are there, along with the rules text of basic phytokinesis.

(I tried using search to link you directly, but I couldn't find a good link that way.)

Dark Archive

Kalindlara wrote:
GrimmDichotomy wrote:

Alright, I noticed a -major- discrepancy in this book, and I hope I'm not repeating anything already said by someone else.

For the Phytokineticist/Wood Element entry to the Kineticist class, there is no listing for what the Basic Phytokinesis ability actually does among the Wild Talents, nor does there appear to be a Composite Blast that exists for further specializing in Wood via Expanded Element. The latter could've just been deliberate I suppose (though really, why would you not have that?), but the former is not just a small error, since any character starting with Wood as their Element -automatically gains Basic Phytokinesis, just like any other Element with their respective basic kinesis ability.

What's going to be done for this?

Please read the last two to three pages - the answers are there, along with the rules text of basic phytokinesis.

(I tried using search to link you directly, but I couldn't find a good link that way.)

I'm looking at the PDF, can you list the page number? I've actually used the 'Find' tool multiple times, and the only time it pops up are the two names drops, but with no ability writeup.


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Kalindlara wrote:


(I tried using search to link you directly, but I couldn't find a good link that way.)

Basic Phytokinesis is in Mark Seifter's post on page 5 of the thread, and Mark points out the location of the blasts on page 7 of the thread.

As for "what's going to be done for this", Owen K.C. Stephens says a revision is under discussion on page 6 of the thread.


Can I get some details on the Paladin archetype?

Dark Archive

Garrett Guillotte wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:


(I tried using search to link you directly, but I couldn't find a good link that way.)

Basic Phytokinesis is in Mark Seifter's post on page 5 of the thread, and Mark points out the location of the blasts on page 7 of the thread.

As for "what's going to be done for this", Owen K.C. Stephens says a revision is under discussion on page 6 of the thread.

So we get a placeholder ability until they can get the actual official write up handled, and that still doesn't answer as to why Wood doesn't get it's own Composite Blast for focusing on it for Expanded element, which ALL OTHER Elements (including the new Void Element!) do, ie Metal Blast, Blue Flame Blast, Force Blast, etc.

Silver Crusade Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kennesty wrote:
Can I get some details on the Paladin archetype?

Well, it's awesome. ^_^

Mind Sword:

Replaces lay on hands with telekinetic sword-throws, much like a universalist wizard. Eventually, can full-attack this way.

Replaces mercy with a form of touch treatment, similar to the mesmerist.

Adds a large number of Occult Adventures spells to the paladin list. Item creation not allowed for these spells. Replaces positive energy.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

2 people marked this as a favorite.
GrimmDichotomy wrote:


So we get a placeholder ability until they can get the actual official write up handled, and that still doesn't answer as to why Wood doesn't get it's own Composite Blast for focusing on it for Expanded element, which ALL OTHER Elements (including the new Void Element!) do, ie Metal Blast, Blue Flame Blast, Force Blast, etc.

GRimmDichotomy,

This was addressed here. Might I suggest you read the thread, as was previously suggested?

Dark Archive

Matthew Morris wrote:
GrimmDichotomy wrote:


So we get a placeholder ability until they can get the actual official write up handled, and that still doesn't answer as to why Wood doesn't get it's own Composite Blast for focusing on it for Expanded element, which ALL OTHER Elements (including the new Void Element!) do, ie Metal Blast, Blue Flame Blast, Force Blast, etc.

GRimmDichotomy,

This was addressed here. Might I suggest you read the thread, as was previously suggested?

Thank you for the correct link to the Composite Blast quandary. All in all, it's still a mess. I appreciate that they're working on it, but it would've been very nice if this wasn't a problem to begin with. This, at least to me, comes across not as a small oversight.

That being said, I do wish them all luck and speed with patching that up. I'm very fond of Pathfinder, which is part of why I'm keen to see their content handled well. Thanks for the help, everyone.

Scarab Sages

Kalindlara wrote:
Kennesty wrote:
Can I get some details on the Paladin archetype?

Well, it's awesome. ^_^

** spoiler omitted **

Really? I though the giving up Lay on hands for a CHA version of hand of the apprentice was a horrid trade, and the limited psychic spells they gain was lackluster.

It does let them full attack at 60 feet a few times per day, but at a huge hit to durability.

Dark Archive

Kalindlara wrote:
Kennesty wrote:
Can I get some details on the Paladin archetype?

Well, it's awesome. ^_^

** spoiler omitted **

If this becomes legal for PFS, I might actually play a Paladin.


What options exist for the Psychic class specifically? This can include archetypes/disciplines, feats, and spells. Thanks in advance.


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Littimer wrote:
What options exist for the Psychic class specifically? This can include archetypes/disciplines, feats, and spells. Thanks in advance.

Six new phrenic amplfications, two new major amplifications, two new psychic disciplines, and...sixteen new spells on the psychic spell list.


Luthorne wrote:
Littimer wrote:
What options exist for the Psychic class specifically? This can include archetypes/disciplines, feats, and spells. Thanks in advance.
Six new phrenic amplfications, two new major amplifications, two new psychic disciplines, and...sixteen new spells on the psychic spell list.

Thanks again. Would you mind providing the names of the disciplines and amplifications? Anything good in there for either debuff, control, or save v. death builds?


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Littimer wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Littimer wrote:
What options exist for the Psychic class specifically? This can include archetypes/disciplines, feats, and spells. Thanks in advance.
Six new phrenic amplfications, two new major amplifications, two new psychic disciplines, and...sixteen new spells on the psychic spell list.
Thanks again. Would you mind providing the names of the disciplines and amplifications? Anything good in there for either debuff, control, or save v. death builds?

Phrenix Amplifications: Biokinetic Healing, Dragon's Breath Focus, Phrenic Strike, Psychofeedback, Telempathic Restoration, and Transfer Fear.

Major Amplifications: Deflection Field and Telepathic Targeting.

Psychic Disciplines: Enlightenment and Rebirth.

Nothing particularly sticks out for those purposes, though the Rebirth discipline does allow you to snag spells from another spell list, so it could probably assist with those.


Oh hey quick Q: does the new Monk archetype have something to make Charisma more appealing?

Several chakra features use Charisma but it's usually a dump stat for monks.


Does the Reliquarian use INT for their spells still or is it also changed to Wisdom?

It isn't very clear in the book.


Askanipsion wrote:

Does the Reliquarian use INT for their spells still or is it also changed to Wisdom?

It isn't very clear in the book.

There's no section modifying casting stat specifically, and the section modifying spells doesn't bring up anything about ability scores. It's definitely still Int-based casting, now with a Wis-based pool of mental focus.


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah, it gets a bit more MAD, which is a little disappointing since I think the archetype has some fun flavor...I get kind of an Eastern Orthodox vibe from it myself. Might consider seeing about houseruling it...


How i hope there are good new options for the spiritualist.

Silver Crusade Contributor

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I really liked the spiritualist content for this book - especially since they took pains to make sure it was compatible with the feats and archetypes from Occult Adventures.


Kalindlara wrote:
I really liked the spiritualist content for this book - especially since they took pains to make sure it was compatible with the feats and archetypes from Occult Adventures.

Great to know , cant wait to see it then.


Kalindlara wrote:
I really liked the spiritualist content for this book - especially since they took pains to make sure it was compatible with the feats and archetypes from Occult Adventures.

Fractured Mind spell list you mean? Ultra neat.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Secret Wizard wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
I really liked the spiritualist content for this book - especially since they took pains to make sure it was compatible with the feats and archetypes from Occult Adventures.
Fractured Mind spell list you mean? Ultra neat.

There's also the Emotional Conduit feat and the spirit-bound blade spell.

Liberty's Edge

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Its so close. I am already ready to hand over my money. Soon all the Esoteric power locked within its pages WILL BE MINE!!!


I would really like to know something about the new Spiritualist archetype - is it really thematically focused on a Pharasma worshiper? Is it good?


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The general theme of the Fated Guide archetype is that the phantom is a soul judged by Pharasma that was then sent back to the world for some reason. This is in contrast to a standard phantom who never really left the world of the living.


I see there are dozens of spells included in this book.

Are there any notable or must-have spells for my 12th level wizard?


So the PDF won't be available until 2 am central time right? Because I NEED THIS!


Picked up the PDF, really really liking the chaos kineticist. But there is one thing that I have a question about, as has been mentioned previously in the thread: What infusions work with gravitic boost and negative admixture? Gravitic Boost seems to work like aetheric boost, and is basically applied last to another blast that has infusions. Does negative admixture work similarly?

Also, do any of the chaos infusions apply to negative admixture? They just list negative under associated blast, which could mean only negative blast of both negative blast and negative admixture.

Designer

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Gravitic boost indeed works like aetheric boost, so it keeps the same infusions. Negative admixture's impurity causes it not to work with infusions other than the ones that work for all blasts; however, it's still a pretty strong composite in its own right as the only non-boost energy composites with ice and electricity (and an option for fire alongside blue flame).


I'm a bit confused about how the mesmerists new Devilbane Dismissal works.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Gravitic boost indeed works like aetheric boost, so it keeps the same infusions. Negative admixture's impurity causes it not to work with infusions other than the ones that work for all blasts; however, it's still a pretty strong composite in its own right as the only non-boost energy composites with ice and electricity (and an option for fire alongside blue flame).

Ok, not as good as I was hoping, but still useful in its niche. Mainly seems to hurt chaos as a primary element, and makes tri-energy unviable. Fire/negative/fire isn't affected too much.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Belenus36 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about how the mesmerists new Devilbane Dismissal works.

Could you be more specific, please?


Kalindlara wrote:
Belenus36 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about how the mesmerists new Devilbane Dismissal works.
Could you be more specific, please?

Firstly, how exactly does it halve it, I'm assuming it's based off the current duration but not too clear on that.

The second is how it effects creatures summoned via summon monster spells, would it automatically dismiss them if they are outsiders?

Not the most familiar with summoning spells/rules but one of my players is planning on playing a summoner and this seems like a good way to challenge him

Edit: I think part of my confusion arises from the fact a swift action , no save dismissal seems very strong (Even if its conditional)


Belenus36 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about how the mesmerists new Devilbane Dismissal works.

If the target is a caster, any summoning spell he casts is half duration.

If the target is a summoned creature, its (I'm guessing remaining, not retroactive) duration is halved. So if you use it on a summoned monster that has 8 rounds remaining, it is reduced to 4 rounds remaining.

Summoned outsiders would be instantly dismissed yes.


Just got it: great booklet ^_^

Two little downsides though:
- no new Kineticist archetype (granted, having two new elements is something, but still...)
- no new talent for existing elements

Aside from that, great work ^_^


Kalindlara wrote:
Skaeren wrote:
Also, any chance we can get a mystic theurge style prestige class for kineticist? or an official ruling on how they function with +1 level spellcasting. I am thinking of a kineticist/rogue/arcane trickster.

Almost 0% chance of the latter. Unfortunately, kineticists' powers are as far from spellcasting as they could get.

A prestige class to combine them with other classes could be interesting, though.

I think your "0% chance" is tied more to the designers' decision... because we haven't seen any PrC in the core rulebooks since the Advanced Player's Guide. Sure, Paths of Prestige had a bunch of them, but that's it really.

I think that ever since they introduced archetypes and hybrid classes, people have been less inclined to pick up a prestige class, since a lot of archetypes and hybrid classes have been merging two classes together. Furthermore, many PrCs have rigid requirements, require multiclassing and/or barely enhance the class or both classes. That requires a LOT of micromanaging for players than simply pick a class with an archetype that suits their needs.

I'm not against PrCs classes or anything, but I feel like the archetypes and hybrid class do a better job at modifying and enhancing specific class features in relation with other classes.

At best, a Kineticist could have an archetype that replaces any of his wild talents he learns with a sneak attack, channel energy, an animal companion, a familiar and whatnot.


Ok, here is a question. Does the feat Overwhelming Phantom in the spiritualist section seem weak? Specifically the formula for the will save to resist the phantom's possession. Shouldn't that be 10 + 1/2 the phantoms HD + its charisma modifier rather than what is presented?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Should Pulling Infusion also work with Aether and Air?

Silver Crusade Contributor

JiCi wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Skaeren wrote:
Also, any chance we can get a mystic theurge style prestige class for kineticist? or an official ruling on how they function with +1 level spellcasting. I am thinking of a kineticist/rogue/arcane trickster.

Almost 0% chance of the latter. Unfortunately, kineticists' powers are as far from spellcasting as they could get.

A prestige class to combine them with other classes could be interesting, though.

I think your "0% chance" is tied more to the designers' decision... because we haven't seen any PrC in the core rulebooks since the Advanced Player's Guide. Sure, Paths of Prestige had a bunch of them, but that's it really.

I was referring to the request that kineticists count as spellcasters for the purpose of any class that requires and advances spellcasting, such as the arcane trickster or mystic theurge.

New prestige classes could be designed... but new text would have to be added to either the existing prestige classes or the kineticist for them to function together.

EDIT: Reading my own post is a good idea sometimes. ^_^


Valantrix1 wrote:
Ok, here is a question. Does the feat Overwhelming Phantom in the spiritualist section seem weak? Specifically the formula for the will save to resist the phantom's possession. Shouldn't that be 10 + 1/2 the phantoms HD + its charisma modifier rather than what is presented?

Oh wow, yeah, that does seem like a typo.

Dark Archive

Two questions on void kineticist. First are undead treated as creatures with a subtype matching the blast's element for effects like draining infusion? Second can I use the grappling substance infusion with singularity? The answer to both of these is almost definitely no but I really feel like they should be yes.


Velisruna wrote:
Two questions on void kineticist. First are undead treated as creatures with a subtype matching the blast's element for effects like draining infusion? Second can I use the grappling substance infusion with singularity? The answer to both of these is almost definitely no but I really feel like they should be yes.

To add to this, pushing and pulling infusions... Do they provoke AoO as if you had the greater feats corresponding to the maneuver they mimic or would you need the feat (and if so would the max distance you can push/pull increase as it should)?

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