Pathfinder Pawns: Monster Codex Box

Wow, $600? That's absurd.

Yep...because there's no competition...idk if anyone bought it or not but I wouldn't be surprised since the official statement is "we'll never reprint it" it's basically a collector's item now.

Oh, I understand the concept of why, that doesn't make it any less astounding. I've used mine too heavily to make anything off of it, too. :)

I hear people run across these every once in a while, so the best advice is to simply stop into local stores on occasion. I don't recall whether I got mine at a local store or not. The one I go to on occasion is actually a U-Haul rental that sells gaming supplies, oddly enough. Their customer base is primarily Warhammer 40K from what I can tell, so some of the Pathfinder products sit around for a while.

What I think would be neat would be small packs of individual monster types. Undead, for example, are poorly represented but make up a large portion of fantasy RPG lore. I have 7 boxes, Mummy's Mask, Hell's Rebels, Giantslayer, and Curse of the Crimson Throne, but only 3 skeletons. WTF?! Thinking about it, maybe an undead codex would be a good idea.

EDIT: I can never get my first post right it seems, and I'm anal about spelling mistakes. Argh.

I understand its a business decision, but frankly its not a decision I can support.

The material in this codex is simply too useful and too crucial to player immersion.

If you have to print it at a loss and make the profits up elsewhere, you should consider it.

To do otherwise is to forsake the player-base for dollar signs and is a really s@**ty move.

The playerbase survived fine before this product existed.

If it's so important to you, and you think financial loss is not that bad, maybe you should consider printing it at a loss yourself?

I understand its a business decision, but frankly its not a decision I can support.

The material in this codex is simply too useful and too crucial to player immersion.

If you have to print it at a loss and make the profits up elsewhere, you should consider it.

To do otherwise is to forsake the player-base for dollar signs and is a really s@$$ty move.

Doing so means either other products need to make more money (so the playerbase "are forsaken for dollar signs" anyway and potentially it's players who don't want this product reprinted).

Alternatively, Paizo lose money and then cut back on production of other products, so the player base loses again.

Ultimately, we need to remember that our individual positions are always skewed. Only Paizo are in any kind of position to make definitive judgements about print runs, reprints, alternatives and so forth. (And even then, they don't always get it right). They know how these things sell and they've determined that it's just not feasible. Remember that "Business decision" doesn't necessarily mean "I don't want to cut into profits because I want to buy a nicer car" it can mean "if we keep doing things like this, we'll have to let someone go".

I think it's worth bearing in mind that getting a print-run wrong hurts Paizo far more than it hurts any of us. (Consider that if they'd ordered more of these at the outset they would have achieved higher revenue on all the extra sales plus they would have been able to get a cheaper price-per-unit, so even all the sales they actually made would have generated more profit). They're not trying to screw anyone over or create shortages - they have to guess ahead of time, without knowing which things are going to sell. Having done so and got it wrong, they need to choose between a reprint that potentially takes years to cover its' costs which will favor a few fans who can't find the product via other avenues or they can devote resources to creating a close-to-immediately profitable new product which will benefit many more.

At least they keep the PDFs available. If someone really wants one (and doesn't care about costs) they can take them to a printer with another pawn set and order a single copy for personal use. I'm sure there are cheaper home-printing options from the PDF that will be serviceable, even if not perfect.

It's not what Paizo would have liked to provide, but it's better than nothing.

I understand its a business decision, but frankly its not a decision I can support.

The material in this codex is simply too useful and too crucial to player immersion.

If you have to print it at a loss and make the profits up elsewhere, you should consider it.

To do otherwise is to forsake the player-base for dollar signs and is a really s#$!ty move.

You don't seem to understand how businesses make financial decisions, actually.

The only way they make a profit is if the player-base pays them money. A loss on one product is simply offset by other products (and thus the players who buy that other product pay for the losses).

They've decided that they aren't going to ask other players to pay extra so we can get the product we want.

If you truly can't support this decision, then buy the PDF and print out your own private version. There's probably a local printer who can print onto a thick cardstock for you.

It's not "forsaking the player base". It's deciding that one small part of the player-base is not more important than all the rest.

I understand its a business decision, but frankly its not a decision I can support.

The material in this codex is simply too useful and too crucial to player immersion.

If you have to print it at a loss and make the profits up elsewhere, you should consider it.

To do otherwise is to forsake the player-base for dollar signs and is a really s%%+ty move.

Who stopped you from buying it for the past year and a half that it was available?

uh... can't someone just buy the PDF and bring the file to Staples or Office Depot to get it printed on cardboard?

If it helps, I managed to find this in the summer in a french online store under this name: Boite à Monstres : Codex Monstrueux

The artwork is the same and the funny translated names are hidden by the base anyway. Better than not having it!

So I missed this one like many others. I didn't play Pathfinder until last year and just recently started collecting Pawns as they're on of my favorite Paizo Products.
I got the PDF and have print them on Cardstock that I hold up with these clips that I don't know the names of.
But I would like to have some more like the thick cardboard ones.
I see people suggesting bringing them to staples. Would they be able to cut them out as well?

I like holding my pawns in folders and stuck in their original cardboard sheets.

(Off topic: very happy they reprinted the Bestiary 1 pawns though!)

Who stopped you from buying it for the past year and a half that it was available?

Um lack of money, lack of a group to justify buying it, lack of time to play, hell even lack of space for a relatively big box. I didn't have any money to spend on this kind of thing until after it was discontinued.

Brother Fen wrote:

Who stopped you from buying it for the past year and a half that it was available?

Um lack of money, lack of a group to justify buying it, lack of time to play, hell even lack of space for a relatively big box. I didn't have any money to spend on this kind of thing until after it was discontinued.

Check your PM.

EDIT: Nevermind. I can't seem to message you.

There are three Monster Codex Pawn Boxes on the secondary market for less than retail at present.

Pick 'em up if you want them!

Check your PM.

EDIT: Nevermind. I can't seem to message you.

There are three Monster Codex Pawn Boxes on the secondary market for less than retail at present.

Pick 'em up if you want them!

I'd love to pick one up.

I know it is probably a stupid question, but, what is the "Secondary market"? I looked on the two largest reselling sites I can think of and found nothing.

I would really like to know about the "Secondary market" too.
Ive only come to know about this box a few days ago and was already looking forward to it because it would greatly help for my next campaign. Hearing it wont be produced anymore really dampens my mood in that regard.

I wouldn't mind an extra copy...

uh... can't someone just buy the PDF and bring the file to Staples or Office Depot to get it printed on cardboard?

I'm reposting this because I'm seriously asking to make sure buying the PDF and printing it on the same cardboard type would be ok?

PDK,

I'm assuming as long as you didn't try to SELL them, yes.

GM PDK wrote:

uh... can't someone just buy the PDF and bring the file to Staples or Office Depot to get it printed on cardboard?

I'm reposting this because I'm seriously asking to make sure buying the PDF and printing it on the same cardboard type would be ok?

You can print one copy, provided its just for personal use. I've got several things printed by different professional printing places and there's usually no hassle.

It might be useful to point them to this FAQ on paizo's site, if they give you any grief.

Can I print my PDF, or have it professionally printed?

You may print one copy of any Paizo PDF for personal use. Note that this only applies to products that list Paizo Publishing or Paizo Inc as the copyright holder—other publishers may have different policies; you'll need to contact them directly.

Has this been greenlit for a reprint?!? The secondary market has suddenly shifted, and Amazon shows shipping in one-two months on brand new ones!

Well, aside from the annoyance of breaking out the scissors after printing those, it seems like a decent backup plan if Paizo doesn't decide to make another print run for this...

Has this been greenlit for a reprint?!? The secondary market has suddenly shifted, and Amazon shows shipping in one-two months on brand new ones!

No reprint is planned. I have no idea what's going on with Amazon. It's possible that the distributor they buy from accepted some returns from another retailer, and Amazon ordered those... but I would expect that to allow them to ship a lot sooner than "one to two months."

Maybe you should let us preorder it with the notice "only will be printed if this amount of people are preordering it" (or kickstarter) and see how many want it. Seeing how much people ask for this (not only here but at distributors too) maybe it will be enough.

Well, I’ve ordered one of the 1-2 month new ones from Amazon. I’ll let you know if it arrives.

Ordered one on Amazon as well. A few of them showed up. Hopefully it arrives!

I ordered two of the Monster Codex Boxes from Amazon, today, based on the 1-2 month timeframe, too.

We inquired with the distributor who sells to Amazon. They "double checked to see if the wholesalers had any stragglers in inventory that Amazon might have been pulling from, but that doesn’t appear to be the case."

I notice today that the "Sold by Amazon" option is no longer available. I would be very surprised if those recent orders don't eventually get cancelled.

At this point it seems obvious that a few hundred people still want this product.
I wonder how many pieces have to get printed to make it worthwhile?

Leaving the box away and just shrink-wrapping the sheets and leaving the bases away which can be bought seperately seems like a cost-cutting option that could work to me. ;-)

We already looked into doing it as pawns only—see last page.

Folks, it's just simply not sensible for us to reprint this product. Given the rate of sales from the last 18 months that we had this product in stock, it would take us years to sell through even a small run.

I understand why a full reprint is not feasible.

Is it possible to have a smaller set based on this one with the most commonly used races ? (goblins, orcs, drow)

For the printing option it would be nice to have a relatively cheap blank pawn set, without art and bases. Possibly sold the same way as we can buy different color/size of bases, it would be great if we could order sheets of medium/large/huge blank pawns.

I would be very surprised if those recent orders don't eventually get cancelled.

Why do you say such hurtful things? :'(

He wants to prevent people from getting their hopes up so they won't be crushed later.

I find Zoltan's idea fascinating. Blank pawn sheets with pre-punched perforations? Has this idea been raised before? I know that a big part of why I'm not printing pawns is because it would feel stupid to cut thick cardboard with scissors...this could help with that.

We inquired with the distributor who sells to Amazon. They "double checked to see if the wholesalers had any stragglers in inventory that Amazon might have been pulling from, but that doesn’t appear to be the case."

I notice today that the "Sold by Amazon" option is no longer available. I would be very surprised if those recent orders don't eventually get cancelled.

Thanks, Vic. I really appreciate your looking into this.

We already looked into doing it as pawns only—see last page.

Folks, it's just simply not sensible for us to reprint this product. Given the rate of sales from the last 18 months that we had this product in stock, it would take us years to sell through even a small run.

That seems really pessimistic. There are dozens of customers asking for a re-print on this product and it is sold out everywhere. Even places like eBay don't have it. The product-scalpers on Amazon that were selling boxes for $100 each are all out as well. Clearly, there is a lot of demand for this product.

There must be a way to get this done. Really disappointed that Paizo is just shrugging their shoulders at this.

I understand why a full reprint is not feasible.

Is it possible to have a smaller set based on this one with the most commonly used races ? (goblins, orcs, drow)

For the printing option it would be nice to have a relatively cheap blank pawn set, without art and bases. Possibly sold the same way as we can buy different color/size of bases, it would be great if we could order sheets of medium/large/huge blank pawns.

These are both excellent ideas.

Vic Wertz wrote:

We already looked into doing it as pawns only—see last page.

Folks, it's just simply not sensible for us to reprint this product. Given the rate of sales from the last 18 months that we had this product in stock, it would take us years to sell through even a small run.

That seems really pessimistic. There are dozens of customers asking for a re-print on this product and it is sold out everywhere. Even places like eBay don't have it. The product-scalpers on Amazon that were selling boxes for $100 each are all out as well. Clearly, there is a lot of demand for this product.

Dozens doesn’t eat very far into a pile of inventory if the minimum economically viable reprint is in the thousands.

I don’t know the numbers, obviously but Paizo have real, hard data on how well this has been selling at standard prices through a variety of distribution channels over many months. It’s not really a question of pessimism in the case of reprinting a known product.

They could have printed and sold more (and no doubt wish they had). But printing another few hundred now is much more expensive than it would have been to increase the original print run by that same few hundred. Now they face needing to print several thousand (I’d guess) - and if they do that they won’t even break even for several years - let alone turn a profit.

Then they should license or out to a third party or basically just figure out a way to get it done. They've got a lot of disappointed customers here and probably 10x as many who just don't bother to say anything. Doing nothing probably isn't the right answer.

I don't want to make too big a deal about it, it's just a game accessory, but I'm obviously a very disappointed Pathfinder GM over here. I just got into pawns recently and I have a bunch but now I feel like some of the most useful ones are going to be forever unavailable. It makes me buying any other pawn set a lot less likely. That probably doesn't make a lot of rational sense but it's that annoying.

You don't think they've thought of ways to remake them? Doing "nothing" is the "right" answer when doing anything else would not be sensible for them as a company.

And they're not forever unavailable, you can still buy the PDF and make your own pawns.

Then they should license or out to a third party or basically just figure out a way to get it done. They've got a lot of disappointed customers here and probably 10x as many who just don't bother to say anything. Doing nothing probably isn't the right answer.

I don't want to make too big a deal about it, it's just a game accessory, but I'm obviously a very disappointed Pathfinder GM over here. I just got into pawns recently and I have a bunch but now I feel like some of the most useful ones are going to be forever unavailable. It makes me buying any other pawn set a lot less likely. That probably doesn't make a lot of rational sense but it's that annoying.

I know just how you feel. When I started collecting Paizo products there were a bunch that were out of print. If I hadn't managed to track those few down before I began my collection, I probably wouldn't have signed up for any subscriptions.

I definitely don't mean to dismiss your frustration, it's just that there are basically two solutions to the problem of a reprint: "Print lots" or "Print a few" and the first results in tying up capital for years whilst the second entails making a loss (and eating up capital immediately).

Perhaps one day there'll be a viable "print on demand" option. That's likely to be the best hope (although not for several years, I'd guess).

Hey, don't get me wrong, I think Paizo is the best game company out there.

If they had blank pawns available for situations like this, that would be awesome, too.

I also kind of like the kickstarter idea above.

Really if I could go back in time. I would have bought this instead of the bestiary box. Because I rarely use singular monsters and I definitely haven't used 75% of the monsters in the bestiary; I like my dozen goblin battlefields. I ordered one of the amazon ones back when they popped up, so lets hold out hope.

Perhaps it was a marketing problem. I don't know that many people view the monster codex as a go to book to purchase. Naming this box after the book may have been a poor choice. Common monsters box would maybe have sold better.

I haven't ever had anything cancelled from amazon in my history of ordering from the site so that would be a unique experience. I wouldn't be surprised if they got a bunch of them after acquiring a smaller shop or one of their miscellaneous suppliers dumped a bunch of them on the cheap. Or they found some that weren't properly inventoried (they have only been out of stock for six months), end of the year inventory could easily have found some that weren't being tracked.

Oh well. Might have to go the pdf to staples route with this one if amazon doesn't end up having any. Could it maybe be priced at the 9.99 book pdf price?

Found one on Amazon Canada for $2700!

Found one on Amazon Canada for $2700!

Yeah those are in Amazon UK and other locales also. Thousands of dollars. Maybe Paizo should consider reprinting at a slightly higher price. I'd be willing to go as high as $50 For a box because the value is there. These are every-campaign pawns, as or more useful than the Bestiary one box.

Found one on Amazon Canada for $2700!

Yeah those are in Amazon UK and other locales also. Thousands of dollars. Maybe Paizo should consider reprinting at a slightly higher price. I'd be willing to go as high as $50 For a box because the value is there. These are every-campaign pawns, as or more useful than the Bestiary one box.

+1 who would buy this.

Just found out about these.

Honestly, I've come across a number of vendors who had listed this item for $70.00 and sold out their stock. It seems incredible to me that perhaps the most useful set of pawns could not warrant a reprint, as nearly every game using the pawns would include this set, and are clearly willing to pay more for it. Did the Bestiary 1 Box really outperform the Monster Codex Box that much?

As far as a minimum print quantity vs. time taken to sell, I'm wondering about the printing company that Paizo is working with. Considering the amount of business Paizo does with them, it'd also surprising if nothing could be done to get a lower-volume print done (or something like half the minimum printed as one set, and half the minimum printed as another). I would find it shocking for it to be truly and completely unworkable.

Also, wow, people have been talking about this for a year now. I would be willing to go the PDF route if I knew the results would be of acceptable quality, but without the perforated boards I can only imagine a horrible jagged mess. If anyone has a method to produce results comparable to official pawns, I would love to see it.

I also kind of like the kickstarter idea above.

I like this too.

I just discovered these things, and would totally kickstarter a run for like $50... Whoever paizo works with puts out nice quality pawns. But, I just really really really dislike the prices of 300+ that ppl are currently trying to get for them.

The question then becomes what would we need to set the goal at? If we started a kickstarter (that we were totally willing to hand off to Paizo duders)... like the 'ballpark' figure.

Also, wow, people have been talking about this for a year now. I would be willing to go the PDF route if I knew the results would be of acceptable quality, but without the perforated boards I can only imagine a horrible jagged mess. If anyone has a method to produce results comparable to official pawns, I would love to see it.

PHOTO LINK

I made the one on the left, the one on the right is the real deal.

You can definitely tell them apart, but the homemade ones certainly don't look bad (IMO at least).

There's no fancy method to it, beyond the one I posted up thread. The chipboard I use is thin enough to cut through with normal scissors.

Awesome stuff.
Is that chipboard sheet thick enough to fit in the standard pawn bases?