Pathfinder Player Companion: Dirty Tactics Toolbox (PFRPG)

4.60/5 (based on 5 ratings)
Pathfinder Player Companion: Dirty Tactics Toolbox (PFRPG)
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There are those who fight and die honorably, and there are those with pockets full of dirty tricks who live to brawl another day. Embrace the subversive with Dirty Tactics Toolbox, a player-focused manual filled with loads of deliciously devious tips, tricks, and rules options to ensure that your character never has to face a fair fight. Delve into the art of the ambush, research new poisons, and discover ways to enhance your sneak attacks and dirty trick combat maneuvers. And if none of that suits your sly sensibilities, arm yourself with magic that targets your enemy's jugular or turns her sword into an angry snake. Dirty Tactics Toolbox contains everything you need to gain the upper hand and then exploit the advantage mercilessly. Inside this book, you'll find:

  • Tips for using all manner of poisons, including feats that empower envenomed weapons and infuse magic with toxins, plus details on a bevy of new poisons.
  • General and specific tactics for using sneak attacks, plus new feats for characters who specialize in dealing precision damage.
  • Expanded ideas for using the dirty trick combat maneuver, plus ways to combine combat maneuvers with guile and a new combat style for those who admire the cunning kitsune.
  • Options for characters who worship trickster gods, such as manipulative Asmodeus and chaotic Calistria, plus a wasp familiar for the faithful of the Savored Sting.
  • A wide range of new equipment tricks, including novel uses for boots, cloaks, nets, thieves' tools, and wondrous items, plus new equipment, magic armor and weapons, and spells for your crooked arsenal.

This Pathfinder Player Companion is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and the Pathfinder campaign setting, but can easily be incorporated into any fantasy world.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-763-5

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Player Companion Subscription.

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Good, but not spectacular

3/5

Read my full review on Of Dice and Pen.

Dirty Tactics Toolbox follows in the vein of its predecessor “Toolbox” books: Ranged Tactics Toolbox and Melee Tactics Toolbox. And much like those two other books, I have the same basic issues with it. While it’s a perfectly functional book, there’s not a lot in it that really stands out and is memorable when compared with the vast amount of other options already available in the game. That said, I do think it edges out the previous two books by a small margin by having a few more things that did catch my attention and a few more instances of nicely integrated world flavour.


Tactics Toolbox series keeps getting better

5/5

It started with Melee Tactics Toolbox, then Ranged Tactics Toolbox, now Dirty Tactics Toolbox makes a excellent line turn STELLAR.

When a Player Companion has feat/archetypes/spells that make you want to start a new character JUST TO USE THE OPTIONS, then it is a great one indeed.

A few stand-outs are the Poison spells (a category of spell I thought was previously lacking), Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat (the Boon Companion feat for multiclass rogues and single class slayers), Dirty Fighting feat (as mentioned everywhere, a long waited for alternative to Combat Expertise) and the Monk of the Mantis archetype (monk with sneak attack PLUS options to work with Unchained Monk? Yes Please!!).

And there are a great number of other gems in here (for example the Sapping weapon property and sniping feat of which I forget the exact name).

The only downside is now my expectations for the next Tactics Toolbox are sky high.


A grand success!

5/5

This player companion is to-date my favorite player companion yet. The new format and the new methodology really paid off with this winning design.

The content walks a fine line between too much crunch and too much fluff by having a ton of both and making sure that the fluff options are still good options! The feats and archetypes are rich with character building ideas, setting lore and still great, viable archetypes that stand up well.

Overall, I don't have much to say other than buy this book! Its not just for Rogues, there are plenty of character options for anyone willing to fight a little dirty.


One of the best Player Companions yet

5/5

While I don't want to go into too many details prior to a broader release, the entirety of this book seems designed to enable builds and approaches that have been conventionally undersupported in the Pathfinder ruleset, and it accomplishes its goal admirably. I think this is one of the best purchases I've made in this line, and strongly suggest it for anyone considering playing a character following one of the concepts it focuses on: poison, sniping and sneak attack, dirty tricks, and ambush/surprise rounds.

I'm particularly fond of the additional sniping support, which has been direly needed for some time. The Dirty Fighting combat feat has the potential to steal the show, though, and may become a staple of various combat maneuver builds for years to come. Like most of the options in this book, it's probably not going to be overpowered; it just makes a previously hard-to-build concept be more effective and efficient.


Wily Options for Everyone

5/5

(I'll be intentionally vague on specific items, feats, and spells until the release date)

With Dirty Tactics Toolbox, Paizo has redeemed a number of design choices that arbitrarily limit those who favor stealthy, indirect, or clever approaches over more traditional "hit it with a big sword/spell" tactics. Dirty Tactics has options for virtually everyone, and a lot of the feats, spells, and abilities are less about power creep and more about bringing the less viable options into parity with the default "tetori monk, ragelancepouncebarian, archery ranger" tropes.

Not surprisingly, The book spends significant page count on the Dirty Trick combat maneuver, providing options to make it significantly more viable and interesting. There's even a feat for Swashbucklers (and Amateur Swashbucklers) that makes Dirty Trick pretty good starting from level 1.

Additional attention and love is given to poisoners - casters and mundanes alike - and all are given options to make poisioning... well, less bad. I still think Paizo's unreasonably concerned about making poisoning a valid tactic, but at least now there are a number of options that make poisoning an acceptable, if not optimized choice.

Stealth options are also present in the book, with feats that give rogues a reason to want to crit on their sneak attacks as well as making sniping a more viable strategy.

There are several creative and interesting spells as well. Nothing's too spectacular or "OMG Overpowered", but a number of options continue the book's general theme of making some less-viable character concepts more viable.

As a penultimate note, one particular feat solves a whole host of commonly brought up issues with combat maneuvers. Without getting too detailed, it satisfies many of the more silly prerequisites for combat maneuver feats, as well as lessens the penalty for being untrained in a given combat maneuver. Love the feat, hoping this gets made PFS legal.

Finally, I'd like to call out the Equipment Trick section for providing some genuinely useful equipment tricks - looking at you, Cape and Thieves' Tools. The existing equipment tricks were nothing to write home about, but these you could easily incorporate into any character that would fit the theme.

I heartily recommend this book to anyone who loves making stealth checks, ambushes, combat maneuvers, or who enjoys casting subtle spells. Get this book and help win the table focus back from the boring two-handed strength based types!


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Contributor

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Reckless wrote:
zergtitan wrote:
Can I get details on the Kitsune Curse?
You increase the duration of sickened, poisoned, and nauseated by 50% and substitute in magical tails for mystery spells (doesn't play nice with archetypes that also replace mystery spells), gaining a selected list of spells known (minor image, ventriloquism, magic jar, project image)

I specifically called out archetypes like that because in my mind, the oracle curse is swapping out your mystery's bonus spells. If an archetype also swaps out a mystery bonus spell for a new bonus spell, then the new bonus spell belongs to the archetype, not the mystery, so it wouldn't be a valid swap anyway. Sort of like how the qinggong monk archetype can't allow a qinggong monk to gain an ability back that he traded for another archetype ability. In short, its specifically laying out a ruling that would have otherwise been implied. :D

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Great book - I especially love the deity-specific content and the kitsune stuff. :D

I had some questions about possible typos - should I ask those yet? There's a couple things that seem to reference nonexistent materials...


Can anyone give me any info on the Superior Dirty Trick feat?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Wolfgang Rolf wrote:
Can anyone give me any info on the Superior Dirty Trick feat?

Spoiler:
You choose a condition, and your dirty tricks that inflict that condition are harder to remove.

Requires Greater Dirty Trick and a higher BAB.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Kalindlara wrote:

Great book - I especially love the deity-specific content and the kitsune stuff. :D

I had some questions about possible typos - should I ask those yet? There's a couple things that seem to reference nonexistent materials...

Typo question:
I figured out what Impromptu Sneak Attacks are. Turns out I need to read those classes more often. ^_^

What is Awareness? It's listed as a prerequisite for Ambush Awareness. It this a misprinting of Alertness?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kalindlara wrote:
Wolfgang Rolf wrote:
Can anyone give me any info on the Superior Dirty Trick feat?
** spoiler omitted **

Thanks for the info. I can't wait for the pdf version to be released.

The Exchange

Yeah, I eagerly await this book to release on pdf. I am not much of one for buying hard copies of books, but I am seriously considering going out and buying this one just so I can have it now.


So what are the racial options for Catfolk? Anything interesting?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Lanowar wrote:

So what are the racial options for Catfolk? Anything interesting?

Cats!:
Two new traits:

Canopy Prowler: Basic Climb trait; if you have the climber racial trait, you get a Stealth bonus while climbing.
Inquisitive Banterer: Diplomacy bonus, and gather information faster.

Plus, a list of catfolk-only rogue talents from the ARG that slayers are allowed to take. No additional cost, just opening them up to slayers.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
David knott 242 wrote:
Geramies wrote:
Reckless wrote:
Selena Halfblood wrote:
How's the Dirty Grapple Combat feat?

Terrible.

Full Round action, combine grapple and dirty trick using your worst CMB and your opponent's best CMD between the two maneuvers.

Wait, what...? Shouldn't that be using your BEST CMB against the opponent's WORST CMD between the two maneuvers? This feat is terrible...wow.

Wait -- can you normally do a grapple and a dirty trick in one turn without this feat? If not, then how is this feat terrible?

Well, it requires a bunch of feats and stats to qualify for [Edit:meaning for most characters, you would have to build with this as a goal], and then goes on to insure most of the time it won't work [Edit: I guess, properly speaking, it goes on to insure it will work the least amount it can.] That's terrible.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Kalindlara wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

Great book - I especially love the deity-specific content and the kitsune stuff. :D

I had some questions about possible typos - should I ask those yet? There's a couple things that seem to reference nonexistent materials...

** spoiler omitted **

Glad I'm not the only one who was confused by this. That said...can you explain the impromptu sneak attack thing?

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Nate Z wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

Great book - I especially love the deity-specific content and the kitsune stuff. :D

I had some questions about possible typos - should I ask those yet? There's a couple things that seem to reference nonexistent materials...

** spoiler omitted **
Glad I'm not the only one who was confused by this. That said...can you explain the impromptu sneak attack thing?

Spoiler:
ISA is an Arcane Trickster class feature. I had to search the PRD to figure it out. ^_^
Grand Lodge

Would anyone mind elaborating on what Impromptu SA does? Does it merely increase the uses?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
London Duke wrote:
Would anyone mind elaborating on what Impromptu SA does? Does it merely increase the uses?

Spoiler:
Correct. +1 use.

There was mention of a Kitsunes alternate racial to get all the tails. How often do you get them, and what do you give up?

I am very happy to be able to play a trickster Oracle now thanks to the curse!


David knott 242 wrote:
Geramies wrote:
Reckless wrote:
Selena Halfblood wrote:
How's the Dirty Grapple Combat feat?

Terrible.

Full Round action, combine grapple and dirty trick using your worst CMB and your opponent's best CMD between the two maneuvers.

Wait, what...? Shouldn't that be using your BEST CMB against the opponent's WORST CMD between the two maneuvers? This feat is terrible...wow.

Wait -- can you normally do a grapple and a dirty trick in one turn without this feat? If not, then how is this feat terrible?

The fact that you use your worst CMB and the enemy's best CMD...on top of all the prerequisites to even get this feat as an earlier poster mentioned. I am curious as to who wrote this feat, and whether this was intended or not? I believe it should be the other way around (your best CMB against enemy's worst CMD between the two)

Contributor

QuidEst wrote:

There was mention of a Kitsunes alternate racial to get all the tails. How often do you get them, and what do you give up?

I am very happy to be able to play a trickster Oracle now thanks to the curse!

Its not an alternate racial trait, its a race trait (i.e. character traits like from the Advanced Player's Guide or Ultimate Campaign.) So you're not giving up anything save one of your two traits.


Geramies wrote:
The fact that you use your worst CMB and the enemy's best CMD...on top of all the prerequisites to even get this feat as an earlier poster mentioned. I am curious as to who wrote this feat, and whether this was intended or not? I believe it should be the other way around (your best CMB against enemy's worst CMD between the two)

For the vast majority of opponents they're the same. But since its both a dirty trick and a grapple people that are used to dirty tricks know what you're doing and so do grapplers.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Just got my PDF, and I think the most exciting thing in the book for me is the new Ratfolk feat that FINALLY lets you take advantage of the swarming racial trait without having to be surrounded by only other ratfolks!

I also love the Calistria-specific options, and if they are made available for PFS will definitely be making a Calistria-worshipping caster who makes people poke themselves in their eyes with her spells, and has a big 'ol wasp that makes people strangely randy. LOL

Scarab Sages Developer

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Geramies wrote:
The fact that you use your worst CMB and the enemy's best CMD...on top of all the prerequisites to even get this feat as an earlier poster mentioned. I am curious as to who wrote this feat, and whether this was intended or not? I believe it should be the other way around (your best CMB against enemy's worst CMD between the two)

Your worst CMB against foe's best CMD is Absolutely not a mistake.

First, to be clear, it's you worst CMB IF that's different for these two maneuvers. It's not your worst for any possible maneuver. Same is true for the "best" of the foe's CMD.

Both dirty trick and grapple are normally standard actions. They aren't even maneuvers you can swap out for melee attacks. Each is it's own action, so it isn't even normally possible to attempt both in the same round.

The intent of this feat is to allow you to try to do two rounds worth of maneuvers in one round, by combing them. Grab someone's cloak and wrap it around them, holding the ends? Dirty trick (entangle) and grapple (making it harder for the foe to manage either a CMB check or Escape Artist check to get free). Grab their arms with one hand and their head with the other, gouging their eyes? Dirty trick (blind) plus grapple. And so on.

There's no good reason why it should be easier to grapple-and-blind someone than just grapple them. This feat is NOT designed to allow you to bypass the carefully-constructed defenses of someone who is grapple-resistant by boxing their ears while you also try to pin them down.

Instead, it's an option to attempt something harder for greater effect, in the long tradition of such feats dating back to Power Attack. Rather than give you an actual penalty, this feat just says since you are attempting to perform TWO maneuvers simultaneously, the thing you are least expert in determines your offensive capability, and if your foe is particularly good at defending against either kind of attack, that defense doesn't mysteriously evaporate when you try something harder and more complicated.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
QuidEst wrote:

There was mention of a Kitsunes alternate racial to get all the tails. How often do you get them, and what do you give up?

I am very happy to be able to play a trickster Oracle now thanks to the curse!

Its not an alternate racial trait, its a race trait (i.e. character traits like from the Advanced Player's Guide or Ultimate Campaign.) So you're not giving up anything save one of your two traits.

Ah, got it. So for half a feat, I get... eight feats? Or did I misunderstand earlier?

Paizo Employee Developer

QuidEst wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
QuidEst wrote:

There was mention of a Kitsunes alternate racial to get all the tails. How often do you get them, and what do you give up?

I am very happy to be able to play a trickster Oracle now thanks to the curse!

Its not an alternate racial trait, its a race trait (i.e. character traits like from the Advanced Player's Guide or Ultimate Campaign.) So you're not giving up anything save one of your two traits.
Ah, got it. So for half a feat, I get... eight feats? Or did I misunderstand earlier?

The ability to get the kitsune tails is an oracle curse. The curse allows a kitsune to take the Magical Tail feat in place of a spell granted by their mystery.

The race traits allow a kitsune to take the feat in place of a bonus bloodline feat, bonus combat feat, or a bonus metamagic feat from your favored class.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
QuidEst wrote:

There was mention of a Kitsunes alternate racial to get all the tails. How often do you get them, and what do you give up?

I am very happy to be able to play a trickster Oracle now thanks to the curse!

Its not an alternate racial trait, its a race trait (i.e. character traits like from the Advanced Player's Guide or Ultimate Campaign.) So you're not giving up anything save one of your two traits.

Really? What does it do to justify eight (admittedly mostly weakish) feats for a trait?

Grand Lodge

cartmanbeck wrote:

Just got my PDF, and I think the most exciting thing in the book for me is the new Ratfolk feat that FINALLY lets you take advantage of the swarming racial trait without having to be surrounded by only other ratfolks!

Can you pretty please elaborate on this? Ratfolk are one of my favorite races but I never seem to get a second one in my party to utilize swarming.


Luis Loza wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
QuidEst wrote:

There was mention of a Kitsunes alternate racial to get all the tails. How often do you get them, and what do you give up?

I am very happy to be able to play a trickster Oracle now thanks to the curse!

Its not an alternate racial trait, its a race trait (i.e. character traits like from the Advanced Player's Guide or Ultimate Campaign.) So you're not giving up anything save one of your two traits.
Ah, got it. So for half a feat, I get... eight feats? Or did I misunderstand earlier?

The ability to get the kitsune tails is an oracle curse. The curse allows a kitsune to take the Magical Tail feat in place of a spell granted by their mystery.

The race traits allow a kitsune to take the feat in place of a bonus bloodline feat, bonus combat feat, or a bonus metamagic feat from your favored class.

Ah, good! I love it- gonna slap that on my Rogue at the very least.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

London Duke wrote:
cartmanbeck wrote:

Just got my PDF, and I think the most exciting thing in the book for me is the new Ratfolk feat that FINALLY lets you take advantage of the swarming racial trait without having to be surrounded by only other ratfolks!

Can you pretty please elaborate on this? Ratfolk are one of my favorite races but I never seem to get a second one in my party to utilize swarming.

It's a feat called Scurrying Swarmer that essentially lets you enter the square of a willing ally up to one size larger than yourself and gain the benefits as if that character also had the swarming racial trait, as well as gaining the benefit from your teamwork feats as if that character had those teamwork feats. This essentially (FINALLY) makes a ratfolk rogue totally viable even in a party with no other ratfolks.

Grand Lodge

So that means that Scurrying Swarmer essentially grants Solo Tactics and is flanking AND the ability to combine Paired Opportunist & Outflank all at the same time?!

Grand Lodge

London Duke wrote:
So that means that Scurrying Swarmer essentially grants Solo Tactics and is flanking AND the ability to combine Paired Opportunist & Outflank all at the same time?!

If so than Ratfolks just became one of the best melee races available.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

London Duke wrote:
So that means that Scurrying Swarmer essentially grants Solo Tactics and is flanking AND the ability to combine Paired Opportunist & Outflank all at the same time?!

Seems to be the case, yes. No special prereqs either, other than Ratfolk and swarming racial trait. This line makes it even better still: "You and your ally’s positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in a teamwork feat’s description in order to gain the teamwork feat’s listed bonus, but your ally is considered to be adjacent to you while you share her space for the purpose of determining whether you or your ally gains a benefit."

So basically you also get to add any special abilities from being adjacent as well... I'm thinking I might have to combine this build with my Helpful Halfling Cavalier... the one that can add a total of +43 AC to an adjacent ally for up to 4 attacks per round.

EDIT: How do I do it? GLAD YOU ASKED!:

Halfling Cavalier with the Bodyguard feat and the Bodyguard archetype on his mount.

Start with the Helpful trait for halflings. (+4 from aid another instead of normal +2)
Buy a Ring of Tactical Precision (+1 to aid another)
Buy Benevolent armor (variable, but currently +3 to aid another when giving an ally AC)
Golden Legionnaire level 4 (+1 to aid another)
Total for single Aid Another Action: +10

Get a cavalier's mount and give it the Additional Traits feat, including the Adopted(Helpful) trait (+4 from aid another instead of normal +2)
Buy Benevolent barding for it (variable, currently +2 to aid another when giving an ally AC)
Total for single Aid Another Action: +6

Pick up the Swift Aid feat (use aid another as a Swift action)
Pick up the Cautious Fighter feat (adjacent allies get +2 Luck bonus to AC when you fight defensively)
Golden Legionnaire gives you Authoritative Command (+1 AC bonus to allies as a Move action)

SO, Use your Standard and Swift actions while fighting defensively to give an adjacent ally +10 then +10 Dodge bonus to AC and +2 Luck bonus to AC for the next round, your mount uses its Standard action to give anotehr +6, use your Move action to give an extra +1 AC, then when the ally gets hit you and your mount can both use AOOs to give another +16 AC to that ally. Total of +43 AC for as many attacks as you have Dex bonus. :-D

Link to PFS-legal build (level 11 currently)

Grand Lodge

I am in love with that feat. Thank you whoever made it.

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
London Duke wrote:
I am in love with that feat. Thank you whoever made it.

You're welcome. ;-)

Contributor

London Duke wrote:
London Duke wrote:
So that means that Scurrying Swarmer essentially grants Solo Tactics and is flanking AND the ability to combine Paired Opportunist & Outflank all at the same time?!
If so than Ratfolks just became one of the best melee races available.

Which is funny because you NEVER hear anyone say that about Small sized races. ;-)


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
London Duke wrote:
London Duke wrote:
So that means that Scurrying Swarmer essentially grants Solo Tactics and is flanking AND the ability to combine Paired Opportunist & Outflank all at the same time?!
If so than Ratfolks just became one of the best melee races available.

It's definitely good. The best? Eh. You need to reliable have an ally to scurry under. Normally the best way to do this is with animal companions, but there are plenty of ways of sharing teamwork feats with animal companions as-is.

Definitely a good feat, but it does not make Ratfolk 'the best'. Certainly a good Unchained Rogue race.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Xethik wrote:
London Duke wrote:
London Duke wrote:
So that means that Scurrying Swarmer essentially grants Solo Tactics and is flanking AND the ability to combine Paired Opportunist & Outflank all at the same time?!
If so than Ratfolks just became one of the best melee races available.

It's definitely good. The best? Eh. You need to reliable have an ally to scurry under. Normally the best way to do this is with animal companions, but there are plenty of ways of sharing teamwork feats with animal companions as-is.

Definitely a good feat, but it does not make Ratfolk 'the best'. Certainly a good Unchained Rogue race.

Ratfolk are the best Unchained Rogues because you can call it a "squeak attack".

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:


There's no good reason why it should be easier to grapple-and-blind someone than just grapple them. This feat is NOT designed to allow you to bypass the carefully-constructed defenses of someone who is grapple-resistant by boxing their ears while you also try to pin them down.

Instead, it's an option to attempt something harder for greater effect, in the long tradition of such feats dating back to Power Attack. Rather than give you an actual penalty, this feat just says since you are attempting to perform TWO maneuvers simultaneously, the thing you are least expert in determines your offensive capability, and if your foe is particularly good at defending against either kind of attack, that defense doesn't mysteriously evaporate when you try something...

Yet, with Greater Grapple, available with less prerequisites, you can maintain your grapple with a MOVE action, gain the +2 from the feat, and the +5 for maintaining, and do your Dirty Trick as your standard action (penalties from having the grappled condition equaling out). Dirty Grapple allows you to do a dirty trick while initiating a grapple, but penalizes you severely in the process. Later, if you choose Rapid Grappler, you can maintain, pin/damage/move, and dirty trick all in the same round.

The full round action to combine two standard actions at BAB +6 should have been enough for these feats, without the added penalties. The fact that the CRB had a way to combine maintaining a grapple with other combat maneuvers rubs salt in this wound.

Cads, Unarmed Fighters, Dirty Fighters, also have better ways of combining dirty tricks with other actions than these "Dirty X" feats.

EDIT: The above are opinions,and I think I've stated them as well as I can, so I will leave off with them, rather than get too repetitive.

Contributor

The Golux wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
QuidEst wrote:

There was mention of a Kitsunes alternate racial to get all the tails. How often do you get them, and what do you give up?

I am very happy to be able to play a trickster Oracle now thanks to the curse!

Its not an alternate racial trait, its a race trait (i.e. character traits like from the Advanced Player's Guide or Ultimate Campaign.) So you're not giving up anything save one of your two traits.
Really? What does it do to justify eight (admittedly mostly weakish) feats for a trait?

You know how fighters get bonus combat feats or sorcerers get bloodline feats? The trait allows you to pick Magical Tail instead of picking a bonus combat feat, a bloodline feat, or a bonus metamagic feat. It basically allows you to treat Magical Tail as different kinds of feats so you don't have to allocate all of your character advancement feats to getting additional tails. For example, a fighter could have 9 tails by level 7 if he devoted every feat that he got at all of those levels to Magical Tail.


But no rogue talents?


Reckless wrote:


Yet, with Greater Grapple, available with less prerequisites, you can maintain your grapple with a MOVE action, gain the +2 from the feat, and the +5 for maintaining, and do your Dirty Trick as your standard action (penalties from having the grappled condition equaling out). Dirty Grapple allows you to do a dirty trick while initiating a grapple, but penalizes you severely in the process. Later, if you choose Rapid Grappler, you can maintain, pin/damage/move, and dirty trick all in the same round.

The full round action to combine two standard actions at BAB +6 should have been enough for these feats, without the added penalties. The fact that the CRB had a way to combine maintaining a grapple with other combat maneuvers rubs salt in this wound.

Cads, Unarmed Fighters, Dirty Fighters, also have better ways of combining dirty tricks with other actions than these "Dirty X" feats.

EDIT: The above are opinions,and I think I've stated them as well as I can, so I will leave off with them, rather than get too repetitive.

These are very valid points I haven't noticed before. Makes me wonder about the validity of the feat now.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So doesn't look like there's a whole lot for may maneuver master/brawler. well on the bright side, it means I can level him before going to some specials.

The Exchange

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So far, using the new dirty trick feats and other feats, I've been able to make a Kitsune Swashbuckler(Mysterious Avenger)12/Fighter(Lore Warden) 4 who will be able to inflict Blind, Shaken, Sickened, Pinned, and Prone over the course of a single full-attack which also happened to have been a pounce attack thanks to Vulpine Pounce.

Very, very feat intensive but looks like it could be fun.

Fox Shape (Mysterious Avenger, might as well come out of hiding as a fox)
Swift Kitsune Shapechanger
Vulpine Pounce
Combat Expertise (Lore Warden Bonus)
Improved and Greater Dirty Trick
Quick Dirty Trick (See Vulpine Pounce)
Dirty Trick Master
Dastardly Trick
Improved and Greater Trip (The AoO from Greater Trip is important later)
Kitsune Style (There is some overlap between this and Quick Dirty Trick =/)
Kitsune Tricks (2 Status conditions for 1 action? Seems good.)
Kitsune Vengeance (Remember that Greater Trip AoO? Using Dirty Trick Master, we should be able to upgrade Grappled to Pinned and Kitsune Tricks should let me apply another condition)

Finally Swashbucklers with Dastardly Trick can make it so a saving throw (DC = 10+ 1/2 character level + Charisma Modifier [note the penalties from Shaken and Sickened]) must be made in order to be able to spend the Std Action to remove the conditions. Oh and they can make a swift action intimidate check with a point of panache.

Paizo Employee Developer

xevious573 wrote:

So far, using the new dirty trick feats and other feats, I've been able to make a Kitsune Swashbuckler(Mysterious Avenger)12/Fighter(Lore Warden) 4 who will be able to inflict Blind, Shaken, Sickened, Pinned, and Prone over the course of a single full-attack which also happened to have been a pounce attack thanks to Vulpine Pounce.

Very, very feat intensive but looks like it could be fun.

Fox Shape (Mysterious Avenger, might as well come out of hiding as a fox)
Swift Kitsune Shapechanger
Vulpine Pounce
Combat Expertise (Lore Warden Bonus)
Improved and Greater Dirty Trick
Quick Dirty Trick (See Vulpine Pounce)
Dirty Trick Master
Dastardly Trick
Improved and Greater Trip (The AoO from Greater Trip is important later)
Kitsune Style (There is some overlap between this and Quick Dirty Trick =/)
Kitsune Tricks (2 Status conditions for 1 action? Seems good.)
Kitsune Vengeance (Remember that Greater Trip AoO? Using Dirty Trick Master, we should be able to upgrade Grappled to Pinned and Kitsune Tricks should let me apply another condition)

Finally Swashbucklers with Dastardly Trick can make it so a saving throw (DC = 10+ 1/2 character level + Charisma Modifier [note the penalties from Shaken and Sickened]) must be made in order to be able to spend the Std Action to remove the conditions. Oh and they can make a swift action intimidate check with a point of panache.

Throw Superior Dirty Trick on there for good measure! Make that blind cost a full-round action to remove. ;)


What's the Kitsune Style featline do?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Kitsune Style allows you to use a dirty trick "in place of an attack at the end of a charge."
Kitsune Tricks makes it so you apply two different conditions on a single dirty trick.
Kitsune Vengeance allows you to perform a dirty trick manuever in place of an melee attack when an enemy provokes an AoO.


Vexing dodger archtype is going to be nasty with all this stuff

Grand Lodge

Kitsune style sounds awesome!


Wasp familiar? Nice!!!


Nice things for kitsune!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Just to echo some of the praise given above, this is a really interesting book with a lot of potential to make the game better as a whole. I am really excited about Dirty Fighting, as it will decrease the need to dip into Lore Warden or Brawler as often, and will give melee builds with fewer feats, like Cavalier, a chance to do something besides hit.

The archetypes, while quite specific, are really flavorful and make me want to jump in and play the characters. As do the new race-specific options.

Now I'm looking forwards to hearing Alex's complete breakdown of it on the Know Direction Podcast.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DrSwordopolis wrote:


  • Asmodean Advocate (Cleric) - Very flavorful and has its own associated feat. Hell's lawyer, essentially, provides a use for Profession: Barrister.
  • Extremely fitting for the upcoming Hells Vengeance AP.

    DrSwordopolis wrote:


  • Kraken Caller (Druid) - Restricted to Besmarans, gives multiple abilities relating to aquatic combat. Lets you grow tentacles!
  • Am I the only one with this image in my head?

    "Yar, Hand over all your Japanese Schoolgirls."

    Contributor

    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Eric B. Ives wrote:
    Just to echo some of the praise given above, this is a really interesting book with a lot of potential to make the game better as a whole. I am really excited about Dirty Fighting, as it will decrease the need to dip into Lore Warden or Brawler as often, and will give melee builds with fewer feats, like Cavalier, a chance to do something besides hit.

    I like Dirty Fighting because its actually a pretty strong alternative to both lore warden and brawler, like you said. Lore warden has a choice between it and Improved Unarmed Strike, which the archetype is fairly ambient towards because it gets Combat Expertise for free and promotes having a decent Intelligence as-is. Brawler ignores the Intelligence prerequisite entirely and gets Improved Unarmed Strike for free.

    So yeah, Dirty Fighting is almost like a third route towards being a combat maneuver specialist, and its one that's available to all characters, regardless of class.

    Quote:
    The archetypes, while quite specific, are really flavorful and make me want to jump in and play the characters. As do the new race-specific options.

    Rather than just throwing racial-themed stuff on the pages, I tried to sit down and think about what members of each race would actually gravitate towards, given their racial abilities, quirks, and overall design space in the game. For example, the Among Humans racial trait was a direct result of my discovering that there are less than one handful of traits that grant Disguise as a class skill, and I felt that being able to disguise yourself as a human effectively was an important quality for kitsune to have. Same with the jungle-stalking catfolk options and the ratfolk baubles-and-swarm-fighting options. (Though I do admit that the tiefling class option was merely a result of my desire to be able to create Ursala the Sea Witch in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. ;-P)

    Generally speaking, I LOVE non-human races because I find it fascinating to conteplate what an entire group of people would act like both on an individual and a societal level if they all had a particular way of thinking or quirk. For example, I find gnomish society to be utterly fascinating. An entire civilization completely and utterly devoted to experiencing new things lest they come down with a fatal illness? That would be like humans getting brain cancer if they didn't take sufficient means to broaden their horizons. I imagine that's why gnomes are so affable; they don't have the luxury that humans have of being able to live inside their own, personal bubble (so to speak). It would be a race without comfort zones because to stay within one's comforts could ultimately prove fatal.

    As always, if you (or anyone else reading this) want to see more of anything new that we freelancers tried in this Player Companion, such as prestige class support, multiclassing support, or racial options for non-humans, you need to speak up about it. Almost all of the Paizo staff, including the people who outline, assign, and develop Paizo's products, read the forums. All of the freelancers are forum-goers and/or community members. When people want something and its A) something that's a genuine need for the game and B) people are polite about it, designers, all of the people who make the products you love take notice and take note. ;-)

    Spoiler:
    For this product alone, Andrew Marlowe is the husband of last year's RPG Superstar and works closely with Owen K.C. Stephens on Rogue Genius Games products, Luis Loza is an active reader and poster on the forums, and Anthony and I are podcast hosts for the Know Direction Network and avid Pathfinder Society players. Anthony in particular is a Venture Lieutenant.

    Quote:
    Now I'm looking forwards to hearing Alex's complete breakdown of it on the Know Direction Podcast.

    I typically don't review products on Guidance anymore. (I have to take my professionalism into consideration now, and abstinence is often the best cure where the Internet is involved.) That said, if you want me to actually come on Know Direction and talk about freelancing in general, you'd have to put in a request to Perram and Ryan about it; that's completely outside of my department. (Though not willingness to do so. I actually spoke a teeny tiny bit about it for literally a minute when they pulled me on Know Direction to talk about the ACG Errata on the show.)

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