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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Occult Adventures (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Occult Adventures (OGL)
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There is an unseen world all around you. On the streets and in the halls of power, in your dreams and across the bizarre planes of the multiverse, there are those who walk among us like giants among ants, twisting reality to their wills in their search for ancient knowledge. Now pull back the curtain of the mundane world and learn the secrets of these occult masters—if you dare!

Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures is an indispensable companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon over 15 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures includes:

  • Six new occult base classes—the energy-shaping kineticist, the spirit-calling medium, the deceptive mesmerist, the mind-bending psychic, the uncanny occultist, and the phantom-binding spiritualist.
  • Archetypes for all of the new classes, as well as a broad selection of strange and mysterious archetypes and class options for existing characters.
  • New feats to flesh out your occult character, plus a whole new way to use existing skills to become a master of faith healing, hypnotism, psychometry, and more!
  • More than 100 spells using the all-new psychic magic system, plus rituals that grant even non-spellcasting characters occult power! Explore worlds beyond imagining with dream voyage, or defend yourself from mental threats with tower of iron will!
  • Rules and advice to help you steep your game in the occult, from chakras and deadly mindscapes to possession, psychic duels, and the Esoteric Planes.
  • A wide variety of new magic items, such as the eerie spirit mirror and the peculiar tin cap, plus new cursed items and powerful artifacts.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-762-8

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

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An Endzeitgeist.com review

5/5 —

This massive hardcover clocks in at a whopping 271 pages, though 1 page inside of front cover, 1 page editorial, 1 page ToC and 1/3rd of a page decrease that down to 267 2/3 pages of content, so let's take a look!

Well, before we do, let me deal with the confusion for a second that this review undoubtedly will cause. Yes, I usually only do 3pp material. This has several reasons: For one, I want to showcase the fringe of gaming, the evocative books that push the envelope. Secondly, I'm not particularly affluent, to say the least and want to reward the publishers that do send me their books. Well, I obviously *HAVE* to get the Paizo books anyways, but for the most part nowadays, that means pdf or waiting until they're open sourced - I just can't afford them all. Then again, I do have a policy of covering all books I receive...and I got this book on gencon.

That would be the justification I provide from an intellectual point of view. There is another reason. I *WANT* to write this review and, since I have the hardcover now, have absolutely no reason not to.

Now usually, I provide the respective breakdowns of classes and crunch, but frankly, there are whole guides devoted to that out there, which is why I have elected to pursue a different path this time around. (Different path...that'll be a leitmotif, as you'll see...) In order to properly be able to contextualize my take on this book, I will have to embark on a little recap of Paizo's hardcovers and my history with them, so if you're not interested in that, please skip ahead.

When I got my hands on the core rules hardcover for Pathfinder, I was generally positively surprised - it represents a tightening of 3.X's engine and some sensible, smart tweaks to the mechanics. Still, it didn't manage to elicit cheers or particular excitement at my table - that only came with the APG. The Advanced Player's Guide, in spite of its minor flaws, would represent, at least to me, the truly identity-constituting moment of Pathfinder. It is here, with the alchemist, witch, oracle, etc. that the game set out to truly distinguish itself from its roots and transcend basically anything 3.X ever offered. To this day, the APG classes rank among the favorites at my table, which only bespeaks their staying power and coolness. Next up were Ultimate Magic and Combat and with them, alas, came the power creep.

While, much like many out there, I did enjoy the magus, not much else from Ultimate Magic sees regular use in my games and I went through the book with a fine-toothed comb and ban-hammered/restricted material. Ultimate Combat is a more complex story - on one hand, I did like the new classes and e.g. the emphasis on the narrative aspect the gunslinger entailed; alas, for said class, player agenda suffered and mathematically, it would have been served better with a slightly different chassis. So while I like what it represents and quite a few pieces of UC's options, many aren't used in my games. Mythic Adventures is peculiar - I like mythic gameplay, but only when supported by the ton of Legendary Games material I own - I tried running vanilla WotR and it was PCs curbstomping through everything. Still, I do like this book - just not as a stand-alone. I adore Ultimate Campaign. Its downtime and kingdom building make sense to me, are used a lot at my table and story feats are a good idea as well - there's nothing I don't like about that book and what it has brought to my table.

Well, and the less I say about the ARG and ACG, the better. My stance on both books is well known. (Hint: To say I don't like them would be a gross understatement.)

Fast forward to Occult Adventures. For one, this book's class design represents an organic development that benefits the game. An easy way to look at a class would be to examine it regarding player agenda and character agenda. Character agenda, in this instance, would pertain the ability to contribute meaningfully to various situations. It's why I think that skill unlocks are a good idea and 2 + Int skills for all but Int-based casters, generally, is not a good idea. It's just not as fun to play a fighter who can only kill things and excels at one non-combat thing...unless, of course, that's how you roll, but in general, I have observed players gravitate to classes that provide more skill-use and versatility. Player agenda would be just as important: Can the player make meaningful choices that alter the playstyle? The higher the player agenda is, the more rules-knowledge is required; true. But at the same time, it does help immensely in the long run to generate a unique being from a mechanics point of view - if you don't get to choose, you'll sooner, rather than later, run into a character on distinguished from you by his skills, equipment and feats. Pathfinder, as a system, has covered the base classes for a while; it has advanced players that demand unique concepts. As such and at this point in the system's life, the occult classes with their plethora of meaningful choices are very much appreciated - and if you need some proof of players loving choices, look no further than the modularity of the "Talented" classes invented by Owen K.C. Stephens.

Speaking of classes - let us talk a bit about them and begin with the least "occult" class herein and the most popular one. That would, obviously, be the kineticist...and while I kinda like Avatar, I'm not a rabid fan of this franchise, though I get its appeal. This does not change the fact that the class, as presented, is very niche in focus. Then again, thankfully the 3pp-circuit has since expanded the kineticist's appeal far beyond its thematic confines. (A cheers to N. Jolly for that, even if I don't always agree with all balancing...) So, flavor-wise and regarding base-options, I am not the biggest fan of this class...but at the same time, I absolutely ADORE it. Why? Because it is an engine that would be daring for a small publisher, much more so for Paizo as the industry leader. The rules-engine employed by the kineticist is inspiring and complex and its success is well warranted. Were I to nitpick this class, then my complaints would pertain the fact that its power-curve could be a little better distributed; 17th level plus in particular can be an issue...but that extends to more than just this class and is, to an extent, system-inherent. That being said, I still love this class, though for completely different reasons than probably 99% of its fans and players. It remains a great addition to the class roster and I'm glad it exists.

Now, let us talk a bit about the classes that are designated as occult not only by inclusion in the book, but also by their themes...but for that, we need to talk a bit about genre conventions. It is a general truism that Pathfinder, as a game, is indebted by proxy of D&D to Tolkienesque fantasy and a society structured very much akin to the Early Modern period in history due to the advances of magic. Kobold Press' Midgard is closer to the beginning of the Early Modern period and features a more feudal, medieval flair. Golarion and Pathfinder's default, due to the influences of the weird that made me enjoy the setting in the first place, can be roughly situated at the end of the Early Modern period, with overlaps with the Edwardian and Victorian age - once China Miéville (one of my favorite authors - read the Bas-Lag books!!!)-like aesthetics come into play, you're definitely looking at a society that is bordering a magical industrial revolution. This suits me well, for I come from a Ravenloft background (don't ever get me started on 4th and 5th edition Ravenloft and what I think of those...for all of our sakes...) as such, have always been in love with the fantastic aesthetics of Penny Dreadfuls, early weird fiction, Sword & Sorcery, Sword & Planet...you get the idea. I enjoy these somewhat less standardized, less covered aspects that have been an organic part of the old school aesthetic back in the day, but fell by the wayside somewhere along the lines. Anyways, the classes herein very much support this slightly advanced aesthetic; they resonate well with both the ancient and the more modern themes evoked in their resurgence in aforementioned timeframes. The more subtle magic psychic magic represents and the emotional component inherent in the variant spell system works well in the context of more magic-hostile environments as well as in less fantastic settings with more subdued themes than all out fireball-slinging. The marriage of the aesthetics associated with occultism and their relevant mechanical representations are what makes the classes interesting for me.

Take the medium - while I prefer spirits with names and unique identities, the need to offer the general mechanical framework for the defining spirits of the medium is obvious for such a book and in this context, employing the nomenclature of the mythic paths does make sense and can generate some pretty fun tricks. Had a mythic campaign? Use the PC-names when acting as a vessel for the respective spirit - it's simple, but incredibly rewarding. The general notion of taboos and the influence mechanic similarly can make for some great roleplaying. The mesmerist class tends to be called unfocused by some reviews I've read...and frankly, I have no idea why. The mesmerist, from the cool concept to the execution, makes for a very rewarding playing experience and has some serious optimization potential to boot -the implanting of tricks, the skill-array...both from the perspective of the stories you can tell with this class and the options available for the enterprising player, this class is absolutely amazing and allows for some neat, diverse characters. The stare-mechanic is also something that can be employed to rather great effect. The occultist is a similarly evocative concept - the focus on implements and fact that each can make for an unique item on its own is a lot of roleplaying potential and the respective focus powers provide a similarly interesting playing experience. The psychic, as the full caster, ranks as one of the more intriguing full casters in my book, with magical amplification and disciplines providing a nice array of diverse builds. The spiritualist, finally, would basically be a balanced take on the summoner with a fluff that I consider amazing.

This would bring me to what sets the classes apart more so than their mechanical validity - the fact that, to me, they represent, universally a great blending of providing player and character agenda, but this also means that they have things they can do beyond the confines of combat - there is a significant emphasis on the ROLEplaying aspect of the game we all know and love, with a wide variety of diverse tricks associated with actual roleplaying; the classes have means of depicting interesting characters; a player can really make each class its own: The implements, phantoms and all the components of the classes and their structure almost demand, organically, to be used by the player to make something that exceeds the totality of the mathematical components. In short, as far I'm concerned, these are the best player-focused options since the APG and as a whole, I consider the roster to be superior to even that gem of a book.

However, the customization options similarly provide some seriously cool tricks: Want to play Scarecrow from Batman? Yup. Cultist leader? Yep. Eat books and draw strength from it? Yeah. Amnesiac psychic? Yup. As a whole, covering archetypes and feats would obviously bloat the book beyond compare - but one crucial point as opposed to most books of this size lies in the big C-word - consistency. There are no overpowered options here...and neither are there options that you'd consider to be subpar traps sans value - there is some character concept, some specific thing that makes sense from a build and/or flavor perspective. (The options that I won't use will be the onmyoji, elemental annihilator, psychic duelist and kami medium - the Eastern-themed ones mainly since I prefer Interjection Games' take on the Onmyoji and its themes; the psychic duelist is a nice specialist, but doesn't blow me away. Finally, the annihilator...well, I have 3pp options that are more versatile.) - notice something? My criticism here pertains mostly taste.

Now this alone does make the book shine very much for me; at the same time, I wouldn't be me if I didn't have complaints, right? So there we go: The book contains various pieces of advice and alternate rules/subsystems of the material and one would by psychic duels...which are generally an awesome idea and provide for cool, creative minigames when handled right. Alas, the spell used to start them, instigate psychic duel, pretty much is a save-or-suck option, since the affected target has the save...and while the duel is in process, the target cannot move...which allows allies to stab the foe to bits. Oddly, the instigator of such a duel can end it via a Will-save as per the spell, when the psychic duel-rules do not mention such an option for the affected character - this is intended, undoubtedly, since those caught in a duel can be shaken out of it. At the same time, I think that pretty basic modifications could have prevented that little lockdown-aspect: For example, taking a penalty on MP to be capable of at least utilizing a fraction of the action array available...you know, moving slowly towards the instigator while battling him in the duel, maintaining at least defenses...the like. Granted, the system is optional and can be modified rather easily, but I'm still somewhat astonished that this very basic strategy was not used, particularly after the complaints the slumber hex etc. received. Still, this represents a relatively minor issue when seen in relation to the number of things that *do* work pretty perfectly...and the fact that psychic duels work infinitely better than 3.X's mindscapes and similar tricks.

Once again, the storytelling potential is what sells this on me. Beyond the copious GM-advice, the book contains some information on esoteric planes like the akashic record, the positive/negative energy plane and the like - which I generally enjoyed. At the same time, I did feel like the book could have done a little bit more with unique planar features for some of them, since not all receive this component in detail. Of course gear, both mundane and magical, can be found in this tome - from the phrenologist's kit (phrenology being the by now debunked belief that the size and shape of the skull influences personality etc. - and yes, there's a feat inspired by it here!) to the Dorian Gray-ish pictures, we notice one thing - the items, much like a ton of material herein, is steeped in a sense of the real, in the occult traditions and pseudo-science of days gone by.

What do I mean by this? Take alchemy, an established concept in our fantasy games. If you have the stamina to power through them, I'd sincerely suggest getting a copy of the writings of real world alchemists, sit down with the cool alchemy recipes and start - I guarantee you'll come up with new and evocative material. A similar observation can be made here - the tying into concepts and ideas established in our world generates basically the largest hand-out you could fathom and some research will almost assuredly provide a vast selection of truly evocative concepts to represent, while also teaching something new along the way. You do not have to be interested in masons, OTO, etc. to enjoy this book - but you can draw upon esoteric and occult knowledge to enrich the game tremendously. Heck, I'm pretty much a nihilistic atheist and my fascination with the subject matter stems from a purely intellectual point of view, but I still appreciate all the ideas and their impact on the genesis of our mode of thought. Similarly, the idea of locus spirits, of tapping into ley lines and similar high-concept tricks complement an implied world-building and -conception that goes beyond the surface, that extends into a level of depth beyond the superficial pushing of numbers.

Part II of my review can be found here!

Fun, but a bit esoteric

3/5 —

Don't take it the wrong way. You can have tons of fun with this book in other games. I played a mesmerist and it was hilarious, had a whole Doctor Orpheus thing going on. The Kineticist can be flavored a little and it basically becomes a bender from Avatar! How freaking cool is that?!
There are quite a few spells and special abilities that feel like they can only come in handy in very specific ways though. All the mindscape things would almost never come up in a regular game. This feels very much like a book that would be a lot more fun if all your players HAD to take a class from this book, which is a terrible premise for a core book.
On a personal note, almost none of these classes work with Mythic Adventures...

Solid Product

4/5 —

Really, nothing in this book is bad overall, and while there's a few mechanics that I would like to change, it's not enough to change my thoughts. The psychic casters are interesting with different mechanics that still feel familiar, and everything else works very well. I'd say it's worth picking up.

Finally psychic powers makes it's way to Pathfinder

5/5 —

I have been waiting for psychic related rules for Pathfinder for a long time and I am happy for what I see.
Kineticist- This one has become one of my favorite classes with it's all day blasting and at will/always active spell powers and supernatural abilities. I would love to see more classes that focuses on spell powers and supernatural abilities then just spellcasters, martials, and skill monkeys.
Medium- While I am not big on this one, it does have some interesting flavor and good story ideas. My only problem is it is one of the more complex classes.
Mesmerist- I like this one, it is a debuffer counter part to the bard and also makes a great villain. It is also a good spiritual successor for the Beguiler class.
Occultist- As with the Medium interesting flavor and good story value but complex mechanically. Not one my favorites but like all classes in this book, it fills a niche.
Psychic- Interesting class and fills the 9th caster for psychic magic but lacks in the flavor/story department compared to the other 5 classes. Still a solid class with some interesting abilities.
Spiritualist- One of my favorite classes has good flavor/story value and is not as complicated to use as the Medium and Occultist. A great class when dealing with incorporeal creatures especially undead.
These classes are just the tip of the iceberg, we get rules for auras, chakras, psychic duels, possession, occult rituals, occult skill unlocks, loci spirits, ley lines, mindscapes, and more. This one is as useful as the APG and the ARG.

A great addition to the game

5/5 —

Read my full review on Of Dice and Pen.

Occult Adventures is a great addition to the Pathfinder game. It does more than just introduce a bunch of new classes and create Pathfinder's version of psionics. It adds a whole new flavour and style of campaign with new rules options that back that flavour up. I eagerly look forward to trying out some of its ideas in a future campaign.

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Silver Crusade

Curious about the Rogue and Bard archetypes, if any. Somebody with the book care to share brief descriptions of what they're like?

:-)
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Joe M. wrote:

Curious about the Rogue and Bard archetypes, if any. Somebody with the book care to share brief descriptions of what they're like?

:-)

Spoiler:

Bard Archetypes:
- Phrenologist: gains some benefits from reading creature's skulls.
- Silver Balladeer: has to use a silver instrument and uses it against unnatural creatures and dark forces.

Rogue Archetypes:
- Escapologist: can use escape artist to overcome mind-affecting effects and later on Reflex saves and even instead of her AC.
- False Medium: as the label says.
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spoiler:
Phrenologist(Bard)- gain abilities based reading creatures skulls.
Silver Balladeer(Bard)- Must use silver or silver-stringed instruments and must be good aligned. Has powers to break curses and block evil subtype and undead from entering a door or window.
Escapologist(Rouge)-Bonuses on disable devise and escape artist checks, can use escape artist to rid self of mind-affecting effects.
False Medium(Rouge)- Rouge that pretends to be a medium.

Oops someone beat me to it.

It always takes so long for me to get my books shipped. I think I'm always one of the last people who gets their shipping notice. :[

-Kcinlive
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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Kcinlive wrote:

It always takes so long for me to get my books shipped. I think I'm always one of the last people who gets their shipping notice. :[

-Kcinlive

If it makes you feel any better I am still waiting on mine too.

Azouth wrote:
Kcinlive wrote:

It always takes so long for me to get my books shipped. I think I'm always one of the last people who gets their shipping notice. :[

-Kcinlive

If it makes you feel any better I am still waiting on mine too.

If it makes both happy you will have it before most people who will have to wait till the end of July.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Did the spell list of the Occultist change much? I'm wondering in particular if it picked up heroism.

Heroism can't be found on the Occultist spell list.
I don't have the playtest spell list to compare
Mark Seifter wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

I just got my PDF!I really like the final version of the kineticist so far :D

Though, I do have to say that I am surprised that it looks like the final version of Kinetic Healing can still have its burn cost reduced to zero. I *might* have to houserule it so that kineticists can't give out infinite healing to the party D:

Quickly, man! Tell me of the Elemental Ascetic! Is it the martial artsy kineticist element bender Avatar-fans have been waiting for?

Has Kinetic Fist got improved?

The Elemental Ascetic does lose a bunch of stuff (kinetic blast, several infusions, and other things), but gains flurry of blows, burn free Kinetic Fist, Monk AC, and the ability to accept burn to increase his Kinetic Fist dice. It is more of a monk than a bender because of the loss of blasts. I *think* Kinetic Fist itself hasn't changed, unless getting full attacks with it and more dice at high levels is new?
You actually do still have kinetic blast, but you can't use some of the forms, including the "basic" form. Elemental ascetics can still use spray or torrent, for instance.

I need to stop reading new rules text when I am tired XD

the xiao wrote:
Azouth wrote:
Kcinlive wrote:

It always takes so long for me to get my books shipped. I think I'm always one of the last people who gets their shipping notice. :[

-Kcinlive

If it makes you feel any better I am still waiting on mine too.
If it makes both happy you will have it before most people who will have to wait till the end of July.

Doesn't mean I have to like it.

Hey Mark, I have to ask you this because I feel like I must be missing something (and I'm not low on sleep this time!). Does the Overwhelming Soul kineticist archetype really not gain any charisma related ability to reduce burn? Because the archetype seems.... really gimped right now.

You get charisma as a primary stat, can't accept burn.... but then you don't seem to gain anything in return except for not having to burn yourself to fill your internal buffer and benefit from elemental overflow. How do you even use abilities that actually require you to accept burn to enhance them, like the various defensive powers?

It just seems like a normal kineticist could get the same effect (mostly not getting burnt), by not burning himself except for elemental overflow and filling internal buffer. Seriously, wouldn't the end result be basically the same? Overwhelming Soul seems to be less of an archetype that grants you abilities than one that just takes abilities away.

Hopefully there is something that I'm missing, because I *really* wanted to try out this archetype with a kitsune kineticist.

EDIT: Actually, this seems even worse than I thought. The Overwhelming Soul doesn't gain all the size bonuses from Elemental Overflow either. At high levels the character will be missing a +6, +4 and +2 to varous stats.
Contributor
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theGlitch wrote:
Sajuuk, Turtle of Creation wrote:
gharlane wrote:
Brandon Hodge wrote:


If you want to be that guy who hoists aloft the skull of your god's most revered saint while blasting your enemies with power, wades through combat with a blessed and smoking censer to grant your allies new power, or draw from the holiness of a tattered shroud emblazoned with the scorched image of your deity to protect yourself from harm, this is the class for you!
So we finally have a class that let's us purge the xenos while praising the God Emperor?
BRB, off to go write some bad crossover fanfiction where the church of Aroden is actually worshipping the God Emperor of Mankind.
Well... I DO play an android swashbuckler in WotR that comes not from "Androffa", but from 25th century Sol system, which was attacked by Chtulhu and his starspawn. Azlant was inhabited by the descendant of the survivor of the ARK crash. Aroden IS the Emperor God of Mankind, and his "disappearence" is actually a punishment by the other gods because he used His divine powers to trap Chtulhu in a black hole (not that it really stopped it).

Sucks for Cthulhu. In the awesome Esoteric Planes chapter, black holes are gateways to the Negative Energy Plane.

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The part about the esoteric planes mentions Aeons(Lords of Karma), Time Elementals, and Manasaputra(Agnishvathas, Barhisads, Manus, and Nirmanakaya).

It is frightening that the normal protections against mind-affecting doesn't seem to help against the possession spell line. Well, Protection From Evil might stop it, but it is basically possible to cast Possession even on monsters that are traditionally immune to mind control.

I have to say though, the Greater Possession spell makes me super excited. I've been wanting to build a possession focused Kitsune character for ages.

This spell is also great for storylines. You could have a villian whose body died ages ago and he has been forced to cast possession on victims in succession to keep his spirit from passing on. The duration is in hours/level after all!

Edit: The additions to the enchantment and necromacy lines of spells are amazing.

I would love a brief description of the Occultist and Alchemist archetypes.

Mesmerist gets the Possession line, right?
The Exchange
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hey Mark. I have a question on Psychic Duels. Do spell-like abilities count for the purposes of determining the maximum number of MP that can be spent on a Manifestation? Can a Balor with its 9th level Summon SLA spend 9 MP? What about a 9th Tier Fighter with Divine Source mythic power? This would also be pertinent to the Kineticist who primarily relies on SLAs.
QuidEst wrote:
Mesmerist gets the Possession line, right?

He gets normal possession, but not greater possession. Greater possession makes your body disappear, while the normal one leaves it behind like magic jar.

The best thing about normal possession though is that there isn't a range limit (as long as you are on the same plane) for your soul to return to your body. It is *much* safter to use than magic jar and essentially replaces it as a spell.

Paizo basically decided that magic jar was annoyingly complex and unwieldy and killed it. There is an entire section in the psychic rules explaining this and how possession is different from mind control.
The Exchange
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
QuidEst wrote:
Mesmerist gets the Possession line, right?

As Matrix Dragon said.

Grand Lodge
Skeld wrote:
Magus archetypes -Skeld

does the mindblade basically get a version of the spell "shadow blade", or "instant weapon" or something else?

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Alchemist Archetypes

spoiler:
Ectochymist- has abilities to do full damage vs incorporeal creatures and haunts, can trap ghosts.
Promethean Alchemist- Losses bombs and mutagen to gain a homunculus companion.

Is there a way to get pluses to hit or damage for the Kineticist's blasts other the single crown magic item that adds to damage?

Glad to hear about the possession spells! Is there any way for psychic casters to hide their casting?

Occultist Archetypes

spoiler:
Battle Host- forms a bond with weapon, armor, and shield.
Necrocultist- They learn and contact with the dead instead of item or outsiders.
Sha'ir- form a connection with minor genies called Jin.
Tome Eater- gain power by actually eating books and scrolls.
The Exchange
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
chad hale 637 wrote:
Skeld wrote:
Magus archetypes -Skeld

does the mindblade basically get a version of the spell "shadow blade", or "instant weapon" or something else?

[edit]I am wrong about Apport object.[edit] That being said, The Mindblade Archetype is perhaps the best Soulknife archetype. They can psychically create weapons that gain weapon enhancements as they level up. They are even able to dual wield and spell combat at the same time eventually. These weapon are more or less as real as any other weapon as long as the Mindblade has psychic points spent towards them.

Thank you, Dragon78! The Promethean Alchemist and Battle Host Occultist sound especially fun to me.
Grand Lodge

In terms of a Character design I had been racking the brains of the message boards as well as my own to make this:

... A varisian belly dancer armed with two starknives whirling through the battle field like a dervish ...

It just doesn't exist, it isn't available, Some archetype texts exclude anything other than the scimitar, other's exclude two weapon fighting, and a few archetypes don't even qualify as mobile or acrobatic combatants.

____Way back, in the early beginings of Pathfinder, ala Sandpointe and rise of the rune lords, I think I recall a featured artwork (or two) of a varisian woman dancing with one or two starknives. I think it is about time for this concept to become an archetype...

____Is there something in the occult playtest that would allow me to create the character I've envisioned?

I'm curious about the kineticist archetypes. Can someone please sum them up for me? Also are there any gunslinger archetypes? It seems like a perfect opportunity for a spectral/ghost hunter archetype.

Any info on Archetypes for Bloodrager, Oracle, Skald, and Shaman?

I can't wait until my FLGS gets this.
Designer
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Matrix Dragon wrote:

Hey Mark, I have to ask you this because I feel like I must be missing something (and I'm not low on sleep this time!). Does the Overwhelming Soul kineticist archetype really not gain any charisma related ability to reduce burn? Because the archetype seems.... really gimped right now.

You get charisma as a primary stat, can't accept burn.... but then you don't seem to gain anything in return except for not having to burn yourself to fill your internal buffer and benefit from elemental overflow. How do you even use abilities that actually require you to accept burn to enhance them, like the various defensive powers?

It just seems like a normal kineticist could get the same effect (mostly not getting burnt), by not burning himself except for elemental overflow and filling internal buffer. Seriously, wouldn't the end result be basically the same? Overwhelming Soul seems to be less of an archetype that grants you abilities than one that just takes abilities away.

Hopefully there is something that I'm missing, because I *really* wanted to try out this archetype with a kitsune kineticist.

EDIT: Actually, this seems even worse than I thought. The Overwhelming Soul doesn't gain all the size bonuses from Elemental Overflow either. At high levels the character will be missing a +6, +4 and +2 to varous stats.

So basically two things here, one is bigger, but the other is more fun of an answer, so I'll start with the bigger one and end with the fun one:

The main answer is, if you love the burn mechanic and are really good at using it, the overwhelming soul is more of a niche archetype for you. As is, I learned a lot from my playtesters, and in particular, a few playtesters who were very proficient in the game and just had a viscerally bad reaction to burn got into this frank discussion with other playtesters who were very proficient in the game and were using burn for some really amazing things and getting it to work extremely well. A few of the former, unusually for the internet and one of the reasons I love my playtesters for kineticist, admitted that the exploits and math of the latter should be persuasive, but they lamented that they still had a visceral reaction. And I believe figured out why (granted, it's a weird cogsci answer based on my research background): The most proficient players and GMs of Pathfinder, the ones who just seem to have an uncanny knack for it, have internalized the game through heuristic rules in our head to the point that we can make snap reactions that are highly accurate most of the time. But they can never be perfect, and my guess is that those people had a faulty heuristic trigger on them. Whether I'm right or wrong, the upshot is that they can't enjoy burn, even though burn is a healthy mechanic. These are a subsegment of my playtesters, and they represent others in the community, and this problem general means they are actually experienced and veteran players. It wasn't OK by me to leave them out to dry, even though I knew from enormous amounts of data (and a few of their own admissions) that this was a matter of the person, not the mechanic. Thus the overwhelming soul. It gets lots of things for free without using burn, but not everything. It is perfect for the people who really wanted to play the kineticist but, if they did, would never have used burn because of the way they felt.

Side fun answer: For people like you and me who aren't in that subsegment, the overwhelming soul still represents a hugely useful archetype for certain builds, but you're right that it doesn't have quite the same sort of goodies as a full kineticist played by a player who is a master of burn. However, assuming Dex highest, Con second is the usual build, Dex highest, Cha second on overwhelming soul avoids needing to burn 1/3 levels (or more for the stats) to build up elemental overflow has a comparable number of active hit points once you start going up in level, thus allowing you to have good Cha while taking out a large part of the bite from not having high Con. But what's an example of those certain builds, you ask? Not going into weird things with dips (like paladin2, or even dipping OSoul for a Cha-based character for a low damage at-will blast) but instead thinking of a full character in OSoul, you want to look at what you gained, rather than at what the regular kineticist has. The big thing, actually, is Bluff and Diplomacy as a class skill (combined with the high Cha). So if you want to play a firecrafter orator, like in Codex Alera where they could use fire to stoke up people's emotions, you can pump Cha to the max (since fire often went Con before Dex anyway) and get greater skilled kineticist (Diplomacy) to allow you to use your fire to get a big constant boost to Diplomacy, which a normal kineticist can't, thus having an extremely high Diplomacy bonus and being an excellent face...who also can burn you with fire!
Mark Seifter wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Hey Mark, I have to ask you this because I feel like I must be missing something (and I'm not low on sleep this time!). Does the Overwhelming Soul kineticist archetype really not gain any charisma related ability to reduce burn? Because the archetype seems.... really gimped right now.

You get charisma as a primary stat, can't accept burn.... but then you don't seem to gain anything in return except for not having to burn yourself to fill your internal buffer and benefit from elemental overflow. How do you even use abilities that actually require you to accept burn to enhance them, like the various defensive powers?

It just seems like a normal kineticist could get the same effect (mostly not getting burnt), by not burning himself except for elemental overflow and filling internal buffer. Seriously, wouldn't the end result be basically the same? Overwhelming Soul seems to be less of an archetype that grants you abilities than one that just takes abilities away.

Hopefully there is something that I'm missing, because I *really* wanted to try out this archetype with a kitsune kineticist.

EDIT: Actually, this seems even worse than I thought. The Overwhelming Soul doesn't gain all the size bonuses from Elemental Overflow either. At high levels the character will be missing a +6, +4 and +2 to varous stats.

So basically two things here, one is bigger, but the other is more fun of an answer, so I'll start with the bigger one and end with the fun one:

The main answer is, if you love the burn mechanic and are really good at using it, the overwhelming soul is more of a niche archetype for you. As is, I learned a lot from my playtesters, and in particular, a few playtesters who were very proficient in the game and just had a viscerally bad reaction to burn got into this frank discussion with other playtesters who were very proficient in the game and were using burn for some really amazing things and getting it to work extremely well. A few of the former, unusually for the...

Hey, Mark, I haven't gotten my copy yet (there was a bit of an issue with the system wanting to skip me this month, but it's been fixed), and I was a bit worried with what MatrixDragon was saying about this archetype, but since it seems to let someone play Firecrafter a la Codex Alera (one of my absolute favorite fantasy series), I am even more excited for this book!

I must say, Mr. Seifter, you really are a great developer. I can see your devotion to the craft in every post, wanting to make the best game possible for as many people as possible.

On that note, could you tell me a bit about this kineticist healer archetype? Like is there a certain element you have to use? Is there an element you think would be most thematic? Does it get AoE healing? Healing a certain number of times per day? Looking to play in a Second Darkness game in a couple months and want to know if this would be a viable healer for a party of four.
Designer
2 people marked this as a favorite.
ArcGygas wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Hey Mark, I have to ask you this because I feel like I must be missing something (and I'm not low on sleep this time!). Does the Overwhelming Soul kineticist archetype really not gain any charisma related ability to reduce burn? Because the archetype seems.... really gimped right now.

You get charisma as a primary stat, can't accept burn.... but then you don't seem to gain anything in return except for not having to burn yourself to fill your internal buffer and benefit from elemental overflow. How do you even use abilities that actually require you to accept burn to enhance them, like the various defensive powers?

It just seems like a normal kineticist could get the same effect (mostly not getting burnt), by not burning himself except for elemental overflow and filling internal buffer. Seriously, wouldn't the end result be basically the same? Overwhelming Soul seems to be less of an archetype that grants you abilities than one that just takes abilities away.

Hopefully there is something that I'm missing, because I *really* wanted to try out this archetype with a kitsune kineticist.

EDIT: Actually, this seems even worse than I thought. The Overwhelming Soul doesn't gain all the size bonuses from Elemental Overflow either. At high levels the character will be missing a +6, +4 and +2 to varous stats.

So basically two things here, one is bigger, but the other is more fun of an answer, so I'll start with the bigger one and end with the fun one:

The main answer is, if you love the burn mechanic and are really good at using it, the overwhelming soul is more of a niche archetype for you. As is, I learned a lot from my playtesters, and in particular, a few playtesters who were very proficient in the game and just had a viscerally bad reaction to burn got into this frank discussion with other playtesters who were very proficient in the game and were using burn for some really amazing things and getting it to work extremely well. A few of

...

Kinetic chirurgeon is always aether or water. She can heal a lot of damage at once (more than usual for healers in the game until they get the heal spell) and even remove conditions at the same time, but multi-healing isn't as much her thing. Still, she does a great waterbending healer or watercrafter healing specialist, for instance, including the ability to revive someone who just died at higher levels like Isana or Katara.

That is exactly what I wanted to hear! I have my new favorite healer! Thanks Mark!

I just wanted healing people by punching them in the face out of Kinetic Healer. Come to me, for crying out loud, subscription PDF!!!

Since I'm here anyways, does Ride the Blast still exist, and do Aerokineticists still get flight as early as they did in the playtest?

Shout out to the creator of the chakra rukeset, it seems like an interesting rukeset to add to monks. Personally would love seeing feats that expand on its functions in the future.
Designer
christos gurd wrote:
Shout out to the creator of the chakra rukeset, it seems like an interesting rukeset to add to monks. Personally would love seeing feats that expand on its functions in the future.

That section actually is among the most star-studded in the whole book. Not only was it written by Erik Mona, who is also an expert on that sort of topic, but then Jason did the main development!

Thanks for the detailed reply mark! Yea, unfortunately I might have to avoid the Overwhelming Soul archetype. I like the idea of it, and I would love to build exactly the type of character you described. However, the 'burn pool' is smaller than I think could deal with. :)

As one of those players who really liked burn and did great things with it on multiple characters, I'm a bit disappointed that the charisma kineticist trades it out, but I definitely agree with the decision to support the people who wanted to play a Kineticist but didn't want to manage the nonlethal damage with an archetype. Maybe once I see the real rules for that archetype I'll be tempted to play one...
Grand Lodge

I'm sure someone has already answered this question, but I'll ask again so we can have a new answer.

For those of us who received the subscription PDF, when does the contents of Occult Adventures become society legal?
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So are the Aeons getting a retcon? Lords of Karma sounds like a cool direction, and also sounds like maybe less thematic overlap with inevitables.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I was confused in the Chakra section just a bit, in one part it says you have to open them one by one starting at the root. Then on the next page or so there's a statement talking about opening them all at once.

So is it 7 rounds to open all the Chakras? Most fights will be over by then, or can you just rip 'em all open at once if you can make the save.
Designer
Arachnofiend wrote:
As one of those players who really liked burn and did great things with it on multiple characters, I'm a bit disappointed that the charisma kineticist trades it out, but I definitely agree with the decision to support the people who wanted to play a Kineticist but didn't want to manage the nonlethal damage with an archetype. Maybe once I see the real rules for that archetype I'll be tempted to play one...

If I remember from the playtest accurately, you were one of the playtesters who was most excited by having a resource mechanic that built up modularly instead of waning down, as you spoke to the personal psychology of hoarding waning down resources. That being the case, it is likely the case that I would have built OSoul incorrectly if it became your go-to option despite this, rather than being more of an outlet for a different sort of kineticist build/character.

Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
As one of those players who really liked burn and did great things with it on multiple characters, I'm a bit disappointed that the charisma kineticist trades it out, but I definitely agree with the decision to support the people who wanted to play a Kineticist but didn't want to manage the nonlethal damage with an archetype. Maybe once I see the real rules for that archetype I'll be tempted to play one...
If I remember from the playtest accurately, you were one of the playtesters who was most excited by having a resource mechanic that built up modularly instead of waning down, as you spoke to the personal psychology of hoarding waning down resources. That being the case, it is likely the case that I would have built OSoul incorrectly if it became your go-to option despite this, rather than being more of an outlet for a different sort of kineticist build/character.

You'd be correct! In that case the OSoul is probably not for me, despite my general infatuation with making charismatic characters. Fortunately, if the final Kineticist is as SAD as the beta one was, I should definitely be able to afford the point buy to have the charisma to slap a trait on and call myself a face.

Paizo Employee Developer
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Trscroggs wrote:

I'm sure someone has already answered this question, but I'll ask again so we can have a new answer.

For those of us who received the subscription PDF, when does the contents of Occult Adventures become society legal?

Expect the Occult Adventures materials to become legal on the book's release date: July 29th. We want to ensure that players can use this material at Gen Con.

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Robert Jordan wrote:

I was confused in the Chakra section just a bit, in one part it says you have to open them one by one starting at the root. Then on the next page or so there's a statement talking about opening them all at once.

So is it 7 rounds to open all the Chakras? Most fights will be over by then, or can you just rip 'em all open at once if you can make the save.

You can only open one at 1/2 your level, ie you need to be 14th before you can open 7th chakra. But other than that, yeah you can open them in succession and have them all open at the same time.

The Ectochymist sounds like Ghost Busters meets Pathfinders (which is a GREAT thing!), love it.
Being a Bard fanatic, might Silver Balladeer work with Sound Striker? Dying to know the details for this intriguing archetype. Just the name piqued my interest!
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Oh no I got the limitations to what you can open. It's whether it takes 7 rounds to open them up or like a later statement says where you can open them all at once. If it's 7 rounds then odds are it won't see a huge amount of usage at my table fights don't tend to last that long.
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah, it maybe meant to be a pre-combat buff?

Did anyone else read the psychic duel bit and think of the fight between Egg Chen and Lo Pan?

"You never could beat me, Egg Chen."

Apologies if this was answered in an earlier post, I'm pretty sure I've read everything since subscribers started getting their PDF, but what does opening your chakras do for you exactly? Are we looking at expanded narrative options for Monks, a way to do more damage, or what?
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

They give mini buffs related to the chakra. Save bonuses, DR, energy resistance...
Those kinds of things.
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