Cyborgs (PFRPG)

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More Machine than Man!

Blurring the lines between living and machine, cybernetics grasps at the ever-complicated task of retaining humanity in the subject even as she continues to use biomechanics to alter and perfect the mortal form into which she was born. Cybernetics can be applied on a limited basis, and characters of any race or class can potentially benefit from cybertech, as described in the official Pathfinder Roleplaying Game guide to using advanced technology in a campaign. However, this book presents a brand-new class that has devoted its entire existence to selective surgery, myometric manipulation, and an almost obsessive fixation with transhumanoid evolution to become more than nature ever intended: the cyborg. Perfect for crossover campaigns where magic and technology collide, this class offers an integrated system of two dozen cybernetic modifications that combine elements of robotics and nanotechnology to stand on its own while integrating with the standard Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules. In addition to the base class itself, you'll find rules for pseudomagical tweaks, cybernetic feats, and four new archetypes to expand your cybernetic options: the cybermancer, hunter-killer, mechlancer, and techrager!

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2/5

This product from Legendary games was an odd treat for me. I've seen a lot of tech classes but not all that many variations come at once. Usually a tech class tries to be a catch all for the subject, much like an alchemist so there aren't many base classes that explore the subject. The opposite of this is definitely Psionics with a whopping 10 classes that deal with the subject of psionics. This product also tickles my fancy in another way. I am a big fan of Thunderscape: World of Aden and particularly the Golemoid class which the Cyborg reminds me of. It takes the technology of it's genre and becomes it making an exciting parallel.

The class is a medium BAB class with a d8 hit dice. It gets 6+Int ranks per level and starts off with the Technologist feat at first level. (There needs to be a line here to tell what happens when you get the feat when you already have the feat.) It gets an internal nanite matrix which is basically fancy talk for having a giant pool of points to support it's class features.

At first level, 4th level and every four levels after they get a modification. These modifications eat up magic items slots which is tragic but workable, but one bit that gets ugly is that I'm having a hard time figuring if they eat each other's slots, particularly when they only go for one limb in the description. This is very important information so it's a big minus unless my reading comprehension isn't too good today. Since I intend to use this for a scifi campaign where there are three races with more than two arms this gets extra weird. Some of the modifications impose a -2 Charisma penalty (Yikes!) instead of eating an item slot. Given that a good amount of the modification abilities cost one nanite charge and you get five more points per level you do quite a bit with your modifications and they are pretty powerful. One or two have some fugly wording though. One of the dermal implants requires energy to use despite needing nanite charges anyways and I'm not sure if the energy needs to be damage. Given that some damage types are small and only a cantrip away I'm not sure why bother with this energy mumbo jumbo and just have healing nanites for the price of charges. Some modifications need some clarification as to what kind of action is needed for them to be used. Some like the ones that affect ability scores, I can assume just kind of happen as a free action but some of them like Force Pulse Hand really need an activation time yet I can't find any mention of what kind of action activates these things. Unless someone can point out something I'm missing then this is a huge oversight. Past that the save DCs are frustratingly inconsistent. They all have a +10 but some add half the cyborg's level while some add the entire cyborg's level. Some add to the DC ability score modifiers, and some add tot he DC based on nanite charges spent.

Another thing I find problematic is the Humanity Loss class feature, which imposes a scaling Charisma penalty to get a bonus to up to four other ability scores. Given that you can't have -4 Cha and +4 Str this is a huge downside. Especially since you already have other sources in the class that lower your Charisma. This may be because I have a pet peeve against class features that start hitting your ability scores but I think this product relies on it too much as a limiter when the class isn't all that powerful to begin with. Besides that, the class doesn't even have a reason to use Charisma so it'll be a dump stat anyway. To me it's just arbitrary.

Tweaks are introduced after the class which is something I don't like. Tweaks are basically spells that are limited by what slots you have modifications in. These are handled a bit awkwardly. There are no spell slots, instead you use your nanite charges and you have a tweaks known list. But you have to prepare tweaks. There's a line that says that they only effect the cyborg even if it would affect others, I guess like alchemists, but with most of the spells that doesn't work right. Add to this my rant about new spell lists and you'll find that I don't like tweaks very much.

The rest of the book is pretty neat but overall the class has way too much wrong with it. Despite all this I love this class and it's just a few house rules and clarifications away from being a 5 star product but there's so much wrong with it as it's written that I'm pushing it by giving it 2 stars. And that hurts me just as much because at first glance I was in love but when I started looking at it deeper I felt like it was too awkward to use as is. Its easy to get what is supposed to happen or what should happen and it's a great addition to a scifi game but requires too much GM oversight just to function and balance.


An Endzeitgeist.com review

3/5

This pdf clocks in at 26 pages, 1 page front cover, 1 page editorial, 1 page Toc, 2 pages explanation on how to use, 1 page SRD, 1 page back cover, leaving us with 19 pages of content, so let's take a look!

Okay, so the cyborg as envisioned here is a base class with d8, 6+Int skills, 3/4 BAB-progression, good Fort- and Ref-saves as well as proficiency with simple weapons and any weapons installed in modifications as well as light armors, but not shields. Obviously, they get Technologist as a 1st level bonus feat. The base class's modifications are more defined by two particular abilities, though, the first of which would be the Internal Nanite Matrix - this matrix nets the cyborg a scaling array of central nervous system powered nanite charges (abbreviated as NC), which can be used to power cybernetic modifications as well as tweaks. The array of these points would be equal to 5x class level + Int-modifier, with 8 hours of resting restoring the NC points expended; tweaks need to be prepared in advance.

1st level cyborgs begin play with a basic cybernetic modification and are part of the cyborg's body and thus not subject to disarm or sunder, with duration and power being determined by class levels attained. The cap for using NCs to power these enhancements is equal to the cyborg class level reached and unless otherwise noted, the modifications can be used at will, but have a cool-down period of 1 minute, during which they cannot be used again, preventing the spamming of individual choices. 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter net an additional such modification. The respective cybernetic modifications the cyborg can choose are interesting in that they tend to have more than one potential use - the basic spine-enhancer that provides an ability-score boost can e.g. provide either cerebral or spinal enhancements. On another interesting note, there are also some modifications that replace certain parts of the cyborg's body -arm modifications, for example, replace the cyborg's arm and hand - on a nitpicky note, I'd very much have appreciated this one precisely stating that the arm in question also eliminates the wrist slot, but that's just me being complaint-prone.

Arm-wise, you can get a weaponized mechabot arm for a circular saw blade arm that can be activated via NCs or get a medibot arm that not only improves healing capacities, it can also unlock certain spells as tweaks usually restricted for spinal implanted cybeorgs. powered arms and shielding arms complement this section and cyborgs may also elect to gain Propulsion Boosters, which may be used for water, underwater, etc. travel of 60 ft + 10 ft. per level in brutal bursts or use this booster to enhance his bull rush/overrun attempts: The jerky burst of speed feels very cyborg-y in its rules to me - kudos! Not all enhancements are this precise, though: Take Regenerative Nanites, one of the dermal implants: "The nanites require exposure to external power source to function. When created, the cyborg chooses a single type of energy (acid, cold, fire, electricity, negative energy, or sonic) to power the nanites. When activated the nanites grant fast healing, repairing a number of hit points each round equal to 1 + the cyborg’s Intelligence modifier, +1 additional point per 5 cyborg class levels. Once damage is fully repaired, the effect stops and the implants must be recharged." Does this mean they're only triggered by being subject to the energy? The wording seems to imply it, though usually, one such energy actually eliminates the nanites and, depending on the energy chosen and the free cantrip-availability of some of them, we might be looking at an easily cheesed infinite healing exploit - and sans the caveat, a similarly easy, but slow infinite healing exploit that is not suitable for every game. From sonar-powered blindsight to oxygen-storing gill-like enhancements and short-range bursts of sonic damage, the class per se features several intriguing and visually compelling enhancements - though aforementioned sonar projector either has a DC that's simply too high or a glitch - instead of 1/2 class level, the save DC is determined by adding full class level, which not only deviates from other abilities of other classes, but also from the majority of abilities of the class. Indeed, such minor imperfections can be found slightly more often herein than usual for a Legendary Games-supplement: The Force Pulse ranged stunning-option, for example, do not specify the damage type the pulse deals. Powerful, at-will NC-based eye-rays can also be found herein, though they do not remain the only component and tool at the cyborg's hands: Starting at 2nd level, the cyborg gains a nanite surge, which nets 1d4 temporary NC that can be assigned to a given modification, but not to a tweak. The cyborg gains another such surge at 5th level and every three levels thereafter, which can also be freely dispersed between a single surge or different, smaller surges.

Additionally, the humanity loss incurred by cyborgs is represented by Charisma-decreases at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. One the nitpicky side, the ability can't seem to decide whether "1 point" or "one point" increase of an attribute should be considered to be the standard. 7th level sees the cyborg determine a rapid recharge modification, which then decreases the recharge-interval. The cyborg may choose an additional such ability every 5 levels thereafter.

At 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, the cyborg also attains a modification mastery, which should be considered to be the talent-section of the class - these allow for e.g. skill-enhancers, gaining of feats, salvaging cybertech or integrating devices as cybernetic modifications. They can also siphon power from technological items into their nanite matrix, but only to a limit

Cyborgs also cast a type of "spells" called tweaks - these would be governed by Int and are somewhat different from regular spells in that, while they need to be prepared in advance, they are not expended upon being used - instead, they consume NC equal to their level - these "spells" are called tweaks and unlike spells, the cyborg is bound by his level regarding the amount of tweaks known Tweaks may only be replaced at 4th level and every even-numbered level thereafter. The interesting thing regarding these tweaks beyond their uncommon resource obviously lies in their restriction - basically, the modifications also determine the tweaks available - cyborgs with eye-enhancements get different tweaks than those with modified legs.

The pdf also sports 3 feats for cyborgs - while obvious what Anthroposophist means "You resist the effects of humanity loss to your Charisma by 1.", it is simply not too elegant in its wording: "resist" usually denotes resistance, which is the damage-reducing terminology usually employed for energy types and thus implies a flat-out reduction of the attribute decay. This, however, is contradicted by the ability to take the feat multiple times - the wording here could be more precise. The other feats allow for additional NC and the ability to use your body to boost tweaks: This is problematic, though: "You can bolster the effect of one of your tweaks increasing its power level for one use." All right, by how much? I get the Con-based duration, but the feat's actual effects, alas, remain somewhat opaque.

The pdf also sports archetypes for the cyborg (and other classes) - the cybermancer learns a limited amount of sorc/wizard spells as tweaks instead of modification mastery...and this one s pretty nasty: NC-based fireballs? OUCH, particularly since spell surge replaces the nanite surge and can be used to temporarily increase the CL. Hunter-Killers do not gain Technologist or Tweaks, but do gain a rogue's sneak attack progression and 8th level Death attack as well as quarry and an EX-based invisibility...which is very powerful and should, in spite of the flavor, probably be SP, if only for balance/invisibility-counter-measures - as written, this ability is extremely strong, borderline broken with Death Attack. Mechlancers get a cavalier-like mount that is subject to their class abilities and share NC between mount and cyborg - odd: The archetype does not pay for any of the better charges and the like, with the exception of a stunted tweak-progression, which is kind of nasty. Additionally, the archetype fails to specify how cybernetic modifications affect the mount - can the mechlancer modify the mount as a separate entity or is it treated as an extension of the cyborg? I'm not 100% sure and quite frankly believe that this archetype needs clarification.

Bloodragers may elect to become techragers, which get the artificer domain power, crafting, DR and minor bonuses versus poisons, death effects, etc. and at high levels, you may infect foes with a nano-virus than send them into unconsciousness, then kills them and adds a final insult to the injury by making the victim a cyber-zombie, as represented by the template featured herein.

Conclusion:

Editing and formatting, on a formal level, are pretty precise; on a rules-level, though, there are more ambiguities in here than I'm comfortable with. Layout adheres to Legendary Games' beautiful two-column full-color standard for Iron Gods-plug-ins and the pdf comes fully bookmarked for your convenience and sports the good type of unobtrusive hyperlinks. The pdf sports gorgeous full-color artworks, some of which you'll know, while others are brand-new.

Tim Hitchcock and Jason Nelson deliver a class I really, really want to love - the cyborg has several thoroughly inspired pieces of content and the way it plays very much mirrors well the feeling of jerky bursts I wanted to see in cyborgs. I am a big fan of the cool-down/recharge mechanic and consider it to be not only awesome, but also rather inspired. At the same time, though, this pdf is haunted by instances of flawed rules-language, imprecise tidbits and, worse, some options that fall in the borderline broken category - I'm not sold on the balancing of archetypes, the wording of feats, infinite healing (not suitable for every table, even when slow - personally, I ban every class with this feature...)...you get the idea. While the cyborg as a whole works, there are a LOT of small glitches in the construction of this one that make it feel, ironically, like it was cobbled together from two systems with different power-levels/requirements - on the one hand, you have high-concept awesomeness and complex material done right, on the other, the class sputters and glitches...and the archetypes obviously should have seen a bit more playtesting...

As much as I love a significant section of this pdf, about 3/4 of it, the rest ties into it and is seriously flawed in some sections, dragging down the book. My final verdict, with a heavy heart, will clock in at 3.5 stars, rounded down to 3 for the purpose of this platform.

Endzeitgeist out.


Community Manager

Now available!


Woooooooo!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I found what may be errata. Cyborgs good save (Fort) starts at +1, instead of +2, and their saves don't match normal save progressions.

Was this intentional?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Is Force Pulse Hand's DC supposed to be based off of Charisma?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Is Vocal detonator supposed to be DC 10 + cyborg level + Int mod?

Most class features use 10 + 1/2 Class Level + Relevant modifier to calculate save DCs?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Sorry for the rapidfire questions, just trying to understand some of the design choices behind this otherwise very cool idea.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

At level 1 if I take Force Pulse Hand, I have 8 NC.

I can put all 8 points into a single attack which I guess deals force damage. Does this require an attack roll?

Can I put all 8 NC into the attack dealing 8d6 force damage, and potentially stunning a foe?

At level 1?

Shouldn't there be some kind of cap on how many NC can be spent on an ability, so we don't get the old Psionics nova problem?

Gosh, this is a cool idea for a class but I think it needs another development/editing pass because right now this document needs plenty of errata.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also 1 hour recharge times are ridonculous. 1 minute is usually more than enough for an ability to only be used once per combat, 10 minutes if you want characters to choose between racing between combats to keep up their buffs or have an ability at the ready.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well anyway, here's Megaman as a playable character for Iron Gods.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Just tinkering with the Unchained Rules.

Cyborg Variant Multiclass:

Spoiler:

Level 3 - 1st Cybernetic Modification

Level 7 - Nanite Matrix (2*Character level + Int Mod) Nanite Surge (1)

Level 11 - 2nd Cybernetic Modification

Level 15 - Rapid Recharge

Level 19 - 3rd Cybernetic Modification

Dark Archive

Starfinder Superscriber

dot


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I get feeling Dudemeister likes the class.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Cheapy wrote:
I get feeling Dudemeister likes the class.

Yes, but with the problems and errors in it, I WILL ONLY LIKE IT AS A FRIEND.

Which is sad, because I had hoped this would be the class I could marry.

BUT YOU HURT ME BAD CYBORG! YOU HURT ME BAD!

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm pinging Tim with the thread so he can come by and answer your questions about the class design choices. My part of the book was just the archetypes, so I'll leave it to Tim to make you want to renew your vows!

Liberty's Edge Contributor

2 people marked this as a favorite.
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
I get feeling Dudemeister likes the class.

Yes, but with the problems and errors in it, I WILL ONLY LIKE IT AS A FRIEND.

Which is sad, because I had hoped this would be the class I could marry.

BUT YOU HURT ME BAD CYBORG! YOU HURT ME BAD!

Hey Dudemaster.

I haven't seen the final piece yet, but let me see if I can clarify a couple of things which certainly appear to be errata.

Looking at save progression in my final turnover to Jason, it seems like between a lot of passing the document around my save table got worked, and badly. My intention was to give the class a save progression similar to the alchemist. That was my intention.

The DC should all be + "relevant" ability modifier. Originally I was going to tie specific abilities to specific ability scores, but I found that a little clunky as I was going forward and trying to make it more of a pick your powers type of thing.

Cyborgs should only be able to dump a number of nanite charges into power equal to their character level, so a first level character can only do 1d6 damage. That isn't explicit in the explanation of the nanite matrix description and it should be.

Lastly, yes the hour recharge is too long. That's a mistake as well, originally I wasn't going to have the matrix power up and power down for 8 hours (like regaining spells), so the hour was intended to limit that, but after play testing I was not happy with that and I was going to change the times to either 1d4 rounds or 1 minute. I totally forgot to make that change in the final turnover because I hadn't decided on the change yet. Being as I expect to change it now, I'm open for suggestions.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hi all, I got the edits from Tim and will send them over to layout. We should be able to upload a corrected copy later this week and you'll get a ping to download it.

If you bought it from the Legendary Games website email us at makeyourgamelegendary@gmail.com and I'll make sure you get it.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Legendary Games, congrats on having Cyborgs as the #1 top download from other companies at Paizo! And you've also got Ultimate Commander and Legendary Paladins in there too!


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

How's the update coming along?

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Zaister wrote:
How's the update coming along?

Our layout guy on this book is currently slammed with a couple of huge projects for other publishers. Once he gets through those he'll be able to do the updates on this book and get them out for us and we'll send it out to everybody. I just sent him a reminder email.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Thanks!

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Happy to be of cyber-service!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Any update on the update?

I know you guys are probably busy with the Legendary Planet kickstarter but I'm keen to build some cyborgs :-)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Beep. Boop. :-(

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Yes, updated file uploaded today! It'll be ready for download as soon as it gets processed through the system, so probably later today.

My apologies for the delay. Turned out that layout had put it in the dropbox 2 weeks ago but forgot to ping me, so I just found out it was in there yesterday. It is up, and I appreciate your patience. It took longer than I'd have liked, but it's all about delivering the best product to you that we can!

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Fantastic, I'll give the updated version a read and I'll post a review later :-)

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Thanks - I look forward to reading it!


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Thanks for the update. Just one thing I noticed: it still says "First printing, May 2015" on the contents page.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Any progress on that review? Also, is the print product the updated version?


Reviewed first on endzeitgeist.com, then submitted to Nerdtrek and GMS magazine and posted here, on OBS and d20pfsrd.com's shop.


So is there an updated version? I'm curious because I just posted a review on my blog and while I was very unhappy with it, its like a bit of editing from a five star product when right now I'm looking at a two. I really like the class but it seems very non-functioning at the moment when Legendary Games doesn't normally do that.


Review is up. You can find it and more over on my blog.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Malwing wrote:
So is there an updated version? I'm curious because I just posted a review on my blog and while I was very unhappy with it, its like a bit of editing from a five star product when right now I'm looking at a two. I really like the class but it seems very non-functioning at the moment when Legendary Games doesn't normally do that.

The current file is an update from the original.

As for further updates, I've emailed Tim to point him over to the reviews and discussion thread here and see his thoughts on a possible update or revision.

Thanks for taking the time to leave a review, Malwing!

Liberty's Edge

Any word on further retooling?

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I have talked to Tim about it, and while some of the requested retooling is a matter of taste, some changes are likely to be in the works. At the moment, Tim is heads-down on his chapter of the Legendary Planet Adventure Path, Mind Tyrants of the Merciless Moons, but once he's on the other side of that we may be able to revisit this book and tweak it then.

Liberty's Edge

@Endzeitgeist — what parts do you consider broken? I was thinking of using this in my Legendary planet game but some parts looked a bit over the top per the review.


@Qstor, really any of the implants that require some kind of activation but do not specify what kind of action activates them is pretty broke. Then there's the energy healing thing and the situation of the implants taking magic item slots rather than implant slots and the wording being unclear as to what happens when you have multiple limbs, something I find hard to ignore with a four armed race being in Legendary Planet's players guide.

Those are the things that made me pull it from my home game despite my initial glance over being fairly positive.


Yeah, basically all the things my fellow reviewer Malwing said, plus unbalanced archetypes, plus option for infinite healing, etc....I *really* want to like this class and enjoy its idea and mechanics, but it needs serious work. I wanted to like it...really hard...and it may work for some tables...but even though I *really* wanted to rate it higher, I couldn't. In fact, I probably should have been harsher on it...but oh well.


Something else that's more aesthetic and less objectively or mechanically displeasing is the humanity loss class feature. I'm just not a fan of class features having straight penalties to ability scores, especially since how the class works that ability score is likey a dump stat anyway. It just makes Charisma a little important just to prevent yourself from becoming unconscious easily.

Liberty's Edge

I don't have an issue with the Charisma loss. It ties into something I've seen like in the cyberpunk genre of games.

I haven't picked it up yet but I might this weekend and see if I can retool it.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

So, some quick questions about a few of these abilities to clear up some stuff.

In modifications like Vocal Detonator or Force Pulse hand: when it says you can, "spend additional NC to increase the duration by +1d6 rounds per charge" does that expended NC there also count towards the damage increases or are they allocated separately? Like, on the Vocal Detonator, if I expend 5 charges at 5th does it do 5d6 damage and deafen for 5d6 rounds or is it 4d6 dmg & deafened for 2d6 rounds?

Respiratory Filter: Does the respiratory filter use charges when it's processing oxygen out of tainted atmosphere or water or is that only when in a low/no oxygen environment? The wording is a bit ambiguous as to whether the former uses charges or not.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Other question: Do the arm mods like the mechabot and medibot arms remove function of that arm for other functions? Like if a cyborg has the mechabot arm do the saws replace his fingers and he can't like make checks with them or is this in addition to the other functions?

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Hi Doc,

Sorry I missed seeing your earlier comments but spotted them now. I'll forward the link on to Tim and see if he can chime in!

P.S. For those interested in Starfinder, Cyborgs is getting a conversion for use with that game!


Do you have any plans to convert this product to Starfinder?


137ben wrote:
Do you have any plans to convert this product to Starfinder?

Ah, right, I should probably have read the thread before asking. Or at least one post above mine.

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