Mythic Hero's Handbook (PFRPG)

Now available!

Something for the Marshal too, I hope!

So this is the tome that gives you advice on how to avoid certain problems people have noted with mythic?

Also, could you give a quick synopsis of the Overmind?

Something for the Marshal too, I hope!

16 new path abilities for the Marshal!

So this is the tome that gives you advice on how to avoid certain problems people have noted with mythic?

Also, could you give a quick synopsis of the Overmind?

Here's the description of the path:

Path of the Overmind

Manifesters learn to use psionic powers in a variety of different ways. From the raw bursts of emotion from the wilder, to the teamwork oriented manifesting of the tactician, to the deep understanding of the psion, each of these manifesters learns to channel psionic energy into effects that alter themselves or the world around them. The overmind takes this ability to new heights, learning not only to weave psionic energy into a variety of effects, but to do it easily and in ways other manifesters could never achieve.

The overmind is unparalleled in skill manifesting psionic powers, and many of the abilities of the overmind path improve your ability to manifest psionic powers or increase their capacity. In addition, this path offers a variety of options in increasing knowledge of psionics and typical defenses used against psionic powers. Overminds that approach the highest of mythic tiers can affect even the strongest-willed of creatures, while they themselves gain immunity from such effects.

Role: As an overmind, your role in the group is to enhance your manifesting ability and to have the right power for a particular situation. Whether that is improving the coordination over a collective or creating an opening in an enemy’s defenses, you channel psionic energy to overcome challenges and defeat foes. While you gain only limited defensive boosts, your offensive and tactical options prove that the best defense is a good offense.

The vengeful stranger is the same as the Path of the Stranger book you guys have? What are the differences between the path of hierophant and thepath of living saint?

Just wanted to pop in and say how much fun I had working up mythic class features for the 4 Kobold Press New Paths Compendium classes featured in the book (battle scion, shaman, spell-less ranger and white necromancer)

I was honored to get the chance and I had a blast doing them!

The vengeful stranger is the same as the Path of the Stranger book you guys have? What are the differences between the path of hierophant and thepath of living saint?

Correct, that Path of the Stranger is the same.

The Hierophant is one of the official paths, and it is focused around divine spellcasters and their class features. The saint is more like a character who becomes an independent host of divine powers that is not necessarily tied to a specific deity. Obviously there is room for overlap in those two conceptually speaking, but it's a separate path designed by Kobold Press for their Deep Magic book and has an entirely separate suite of path abilities from the hierophant. Here's the descriptive text of the path.

Path of the Living Saint

A saint devotes herself, body and soul, to a deity or pantheon. Her service is exemplary. Her commitment never wavers. She exudes confidence in divine wisdom, and she never falls to temptation. When entrusted with a divine mission, she eagerly and selflessly carries it out in the name of her god, even if it requires her martyrdom. So say the scribes and evangelists. The full truth is far less perfect, for the angelic mortal that evangelists describe is merely an excerpt from the final chapter in the life of a saint. Earlier chapters are rife with missteps, inner conflict, and nigh-impossible tests of faith and commitment. A divine spellcaster begins her mythic path not as a saint but as a “soul of promise.” Blessed with nascent powers and cursed with temptations and difficulties, a soul of promise is a mortal whom fate has destined for legendary deeds in the service of the gods. Though she may not realize her critical role at first, more powerful forces certainly recognize the spark of potential greatness. Angels watch over her. Devils lay pitfalls in her path. Serendipitous events and formative figures enter her life for a reason, and the fates watch her every step.

During the early tiers of her path to sainthood, the gods—both good and evil—regularly test her devotion. Even her selections of new path abilities are wrought with temptation, for some are clearly rewards of lesser holy power, while others feature greater powers of darker descent. Starting at the third mythic tier, souls of promise undergo a multi-tier test of devotion during which their connection to their god ends. The GM decides the exact reason based on the campaign’s storyline, but it might be the intervention of other gods (e.g. the imprisonment of her god), exposure to an artifact (e.g. a known or unknown consequence of destroying the artifact), or even voluntary separation (e.g. to undertake transcendent missions for the pantheon itself).

During this “forsaken” period, other gods provide her with access to their domain spells and powers in subtle and blatant bids for her allegiance. It is a small price to pay for a renowned figure willing to perform great deeds for their causes and in their names. Of course, opposing deities likewise attempt to undermine those gifts with equally significant obstacles. Even good deities cross paths, with interventions designed to steer the soul of promise toward their particular domains. The forsaken period ends at a mythic tier of the GM’s choosing (typically tier 6) when the soul of promise accepts a divine being and rejects the powers and temptations of all others. The deity she ultimately chooses need not be the one from which she was forsaken. She becomes a living saint of her deity, or—if she chooses a consortium of deities, a force of nature, or another, non-deific power—she becomes a saint of the pantheon, a saint of nature, or a saint of the appropriate power. Once sainted, her mythic path only increases in difficulty. Mythic servants of rejected and opposing deities seek to foil and discredit her deeds, destroy her, or recruit her to their side. Temptations persist, and more than one saint has doomed to soul only to face the daunting prospect of trying to redeem it again.

Since I own the pdf I can tell you Path of the living Saint looks pretty good and the genius and stranger paths are quite cool. Not sure on the psionics since paizo have occult adventures coming soon and I can't see a lot of overlap with that happening, unless by happy chance.

Jason I tend to use herolab for all my characters any idea on who the herolab conversions for this rather mammoth job will be done?

Is the living saint path the same as in Deep Magic, or it's been changed/expanded somewhat?

It's the same as in Deep Magic - unless you count all the new universal abilities included in the book, of course.

Since I own the pdf I can tell you Path of the living Saint looks pretty good and the genius and stranger paths are quite cool. Not sure on the psionics since paizo have occult adventures coming soon and I can't see a lot of overlap with that happening, unless by happy chance.

Jason I tend to use herolab for all my characters any idea on who the herolab conversions for this rather mammoth job will be done?

HeroLab is in process, but as you might guess it's going to be a long process. We waited until all edits were *DONE* before starting the HL process, because we didn't want to have to be going back and doing edits after the fact in HL on things that were already done. We hope HL files will be available sometime this summer, but that's the best estimate we have at the moment.

Why are the pdfs so expensive? If the hardcover alone is $49.99 and the hardcover/pdf bundle is $59.99, you've basically said the value of the pdf is $10 but price the pdf alone at $29.99.

For comparison, the recently released Pathfinder Unchained hardcover is $39.99 with a pdf option for $9.99.

What was your reasoning behind tripling that? I'd buy all three mythic books but not for $90.

Jason,

I shot an email you a couple of weeks ago in regards to this, but I know you’ve been real busy, so going to repost it here.

But what is the purpose of Alchemical Archmagery? I’ll repost it here:

Alchemical Archmagery (Ex): You treat extracts as if they were spells for the purpose of mythic feats, path abilities, and all other effects. You may also select a number of mythic alchemical extracts equal to your tier and can expend mythic power when using them to enhance the results. This ability otherwise functions as the mythic spellcasting universal path ability in Chapter 1 of Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Mythic Adventures.

I understand from how it is worded that this is the extract version of Mythic Spellcasting. However, do you not feel that Mythic Spellcasting does not cover extracts already?

With Paizo having a Mythic Formulae list in Mythic Adventures, I already assumed that Mythic Spellcasting (or the Mythic Spell Lore feat) would cover extracts, as well.

What is your opinion on that?

@Asmodeus: At a guess, they didn't want to charge less than the original Kickstarter backers were offered*, since those are the people they rely on to fund their projects - and I suspect quite a few people would feel rather cheated if they paid a lot of money just to see everyone else get the same material for 1/3 the price on the very day of the official release. That would, uh, discourage future crowdfunding efforts - and it was only through said efforts that we got as much content as we did. Stretch goals are fun.

Incidentally, if you're hesitant to pay $90, you could probably leave out the Monster Manual and just get the Hero's Handbook and the Spell Compendium. The content in those books can be applied to both PCs and enemies, after all, and most adventures don't require you to pull in special mythic beasts when so many other options exist. XD

*$30 for one PDF, or $75 for all three as a bundle offer.

Why are the pdfs so expensive? If the hardcover alone is $49.99 and the hardcover/pdf bundle is $59.99, you've basically said the value of the pdf is $10 but price the pdf alone at $29.99.

For comparison, the recently released Pathfinder Unchained hardcover is $39.99 with a pdf option for $9.99.

What was your reasoning behind tripling that? I'd buy all three mythic books but not for $90.

Jason Nelson explained the discrepency between Paizo's RPG-line prices and other companies' prices (and prices for Paizo's other products)

Take a look at Paizo's setting products (except ISWG, which like the RPG line is sold at a much lower price to get them in the door):

Rise of the Rulelords costs 60 dollars in hardcover, and 42 dollars in PDF.
Inner Sea Gods costs 40 dollars in hardcover and 28 dollars in PDF.
The most recent PF Player's Companion, Heroes of the Wild, costs 13 dollars in print and 9 in PDF.

Paizo isn't making much (if any) money off of the PF:Unchained PDFs. They are essentially an off-line alternative to the PRD. But look at the products Paizo is actually trying to profit directly off of, and you'll see that the PDFs cost almost as much as the print versions, and that the price per page is comparable to the mythic mania books.

And, quite frankly, I think you are getting a lot more out of the mythic heroes handbook than you are out of most Paizo hardcovers. Even if it were more expensive (which it currently isn't), I still think it would be worth it:)

EDIT:

@Asmodeus: At a guess, they didn't want to charge less than the original Kickstarter backers were offered*, since those are the people they rely on to fund their projects -

While I am not affiliated with the publisher, I am fairly certain that that was not the reason, because this same line of questioning came up during the kickstarter. Potential backers who weren't familiar with how different RPG companies price their lines kept asking why it was 25 for a PDF when Paizo only charges 10 for the core rulebook. The reason given to kickstarter backers was basically what I wrote above.

Hence 'at a guess'. XD I could easily be wrong, and I'm not afraid to admit it.

Paizo's hardcover PDFs are priced the way they are as an incentive; you'll notice that many of our other releases are not so deeply discounted, and these PDFs are never put on sale because they're already deeply discounted.

Jason,

I shot an email you a couple of weeks ago in regards to this, but I know you’ve been real busy, so going to repost it here.

But what is the purpose of Alchemical Archmagery? I’ll repost it here:

Alchemical Archmagery (Ex): You treat extracts as if they were spells for the purpose of mythic feats, path abilities, and all other effects. You may also select a number of mythic alchemical extracts equal to your tier and can expend mythic power when using them to enhance the results. This ability otherwise functions as the mythic spellcasting universal path ability in Chapter 1 of Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Mythic Adventures.

I understand from how it is worded that this is the extract version of Mythic Spellcasting. However, do you not feel that Mythic Spellcasting does not cover extracts already?

With Paizo having a Mythic Formulae list in Mythic Adventures, I already assumed that Mythic Spellcasting (or the Mythic Spell Lore feat) would cover extracts, as well.

What is your opinion on that?

Essentially, it's just going the extra mile for alchemists and to preempt rules-lawyering arguments or clarification questions about whether spells and formulae are equivalent. I've seen enough arguments around points like this that I went ahead and included the ability to forestall that and make it abundantly clear and unambiguous that alchemists were covered.

Just throwing a little alchemist love out there. :)

Why are the pdfs so expensive? If the hardcover alone is $49.99 and the hardcover/pdf bundle is $59.99, you've basically said the value of the pdf is $10 but price the pdf alone at $29.99.

Hi Asmodeus,

Thanks for your questions. To answer the first one first, saying the PDF add-on price is $10 more than the print price is not the same as saying the value of the PDF itself is $10. Instead, it means we'd like to encourage you to pick up both items, and to do so we're offering you a discount for getting both together instead of either singly.

This is your standard "Buy One, Get One" package deal that is offered in all kinds of business, from shoes to groceries to travel websites that give discounts when you book a flight and hotel together. If you bought them separately, you wouldn't get the discount.

For comparison, the recently released Pathfinder Unchained hardcover is $39.99 with a pdf option for $9.99.

As others have said, comparing anything to Paizo Core Rulebook PDFs at 9.99 isn't a realistic comparison. It's an incentive price, akin to the loss leader items that grocery stores use to get you in the door and buy other non-discounted items. Heck, Paizo gives those same rules away for free on the PRD, which they can do because of the successful business model they have created with Pathfinder.

A quick look tells you that apples-to-apples comparisons aren't possible even between Paizo products. The Pathfinder Core Rulebook is 560 pages; its PDF costs you $9.99. That's an amazing deal, but it isn't representative of what products generally cost. For example:

The recently released Heroes of the Wild is 32 pages and its PDF costs $8.99 (about 3.5 pages per dollar)

A 64-page Campaign Setting book like the Technology Guide is $13.99 (about 4.5 pages per dollar).

The Mythic Hero's Handbook is 336 pages at 29.99 (over 11 pages per dollar), so over 10 times the content of a Companion for about 3 times the price, over 5 times the content of a Campaign Setting book and just over twice the price.

That's a pretty good deal.

What was your reasoning behind tripling that? I'd buy all three mythic books but not for $90.

I hope the above lays out the rationale and comparison on pricing strategy in general. These books represent the combined efforts of some of the top authors and artists in the Pathfinder business and can be a terrific addition to your game; I hope you'll give them a look.

@Asmodeus: At a guess, they didn't want to charge less than the original Kickstarter backers were offered*, since those are the people they rely on to fund their projects - and I suspect quite a few people would feel rather cheated if they paid a lot of money just to see everyone else get the same material for 1/3 the price on the very day of the official release. That would, uh, discourage future crowdfunding efforts - and it was only through said efforts that we got as much content as we did. Stretch goals are fun.

Incidentally, if you're hesitant to pay $90, you could probably leave out the Monster Manual and just get the Hero's Handbook and the Spell Compendium. The content in those books can be applied to both PCs and enemies, after all, and most adventures don't require you to pull in special mythic beasts when so many other options exist. XD

*$30 for one PDF, or $75 for all three as a bundle offer.

Being considerate of Kickstarter backers is a factor to consider. The backers of a project demonstrate their faith and support for it and help make it happen, and you certainly want to honor that in how you price things after the fact (and, for that matter, when you put things on sale - we consulted with our backers about when to make the PDFs available for this project).

I hope in other Mythic supplements in the future as well. Mythic class abilities and path abilities for hybrid classes, Mythic archetypes and class features not yet covered here (and some adjustments of the existing ones), new paghe along the Genius and Stranger lines, and so on...

Essentially, it's just going the extra mile for alchemists and to preempt rules-lawyering arguments or clarification questions about whether spells and formulae are equivalent. I've seen enough arguments around points like this that I went ahead and included the ability to forestall that and make it abundantly clear and unambiguous that alchemists were covered.

Just throwing a little alchemist love out there. :)

Thanks for the answer, Jason. :)

Yes, I understand what you mean in regards to those making an argument that Mythic Spellcasting (or Mythic Spell Lore) does not apply for extracts. I’ve had that discussion more than once with others on whether Mythic Spellcasting and Mythic Spell Lore do apply to extracts, as well. But then I point out that Paizo put a mythic Formulae list in the Mythic Adventures book, so apparently they do apply to extracts, as well.

So I do appreciate the clear path ability in Alchemical Archmagery (AA) stating such, but my one issue with the path ability is it falls under the Archmage path, and not universal.

Yes, there are means to take path abilities from other paths (Path Dabbling, Dual Path), but if you are already using those for something else then the Alchemist is closed off from mythic extracts. So the irony is the "Alchemist love" can be a hindrance in this instance, unless you wanted to take Archmage.

People can say “well, that’s a decision you need to make”. However, I feel that is one that shouldn’t need to be made if AA was just made universal.

Otherwise, I am really happy with the book and excited to show it (as well as the other two) to my GM. :)

Jason Nelson wrote:

Essentially, it's just going the extra mile for alchemists and to preempt rules-lawyering arguments or clarification questions about whether spells and formulae are equivalent. I've seen enough arguments around points like this that I went ahead and included the ability to forestall that and make it abundantly clear and unambiguous that alchemists were covered.

Just throwing a little alchemist love out there. :)

Thanks for the answer, Jason. :)

Yes, I understand what you mean in regards to those making an argument that Mythic Spellcasting (or Mythic Spell Lore) does not apply for extracts. I’ve had that discussion more than once with others on whether Mythic Spellcasting and Mythic Spell Lore do apply to extracts, as well. But then I point out that Paizo put a mythic Formulae list in the Mythic Adventures book, so apparently they do apply to extracts, as well.

So I do appreciate the clear path ability in Alchemical Archmagery (AA) stating such, but my one issue with the path ability is it falls under the Archmage path, and not universal.

Yes, there are means to take path abilities from other paths (Path Dabbling, Dual Path), but if you are already using those for something else then the Alchemist is closed off from mythic extracts. So the irony is the "Alchemist love" can be a hindrance in this instance, unless you wanted to take Archmage.

People can say “well, that’s a decision you need to make”. However, I feel that is one that shouldn’t need to be made if AA was just made universal.

Otherwise, I am really happy with the book and excited to show it (as well as the other two) to my GM. :)

Hey, in that case just go back to your original argument - that Mythic Spell Lore should already apply. This is just one more arrow in your quiver!

So the hardcopies of all of these are unavailable from here on out?

You may want to try Legendary Games website directly. The copies “Unavailable” here are just the ones Paizo had purchased to sell on their website. LG may not be sold out on their website.

Also, if you are going to Gen Con, LG will have a booth and I am sure you will be able to purchase copies there (as supplies last).

To Jason:

For the backers who commented under the update on the KS “We wish to pick up our copies at Gen Con”, do we need to bring anything proof-wise when picking our copies up at your booth, or just giving our name (with ID) and/or email is sufficient?

Thanks!

... are just the ones Paizo had purchased to sell on their website.

Technically, Paizo doesn't actually purchase things to sell through their web store ...

Well, whatever the process is. My point was what was on Paizo’s website isn’t necessarily ‘all’ of the copies of the Mythic books. He could go to LG’s website to see if there is more.

And case in point, I did check and the option to add ‘hardcover’ or ‘hardcover/PDF bundle’ is an option on their website to add to your cart.

So the hardcopies of all of these are unavailable from here on out?

Hi all,

Aside from a few preview copies airmailed to me, the hardcopies are somewhere sailing across the Pacific Ocean as we speak. Our original scheduled delivery date from our printer was supposed to have been yesterday, but when you're dealing with international printers and shippers (especially as a small company), let's just say you sometimes have to take what they give you. They pushed our ship date back by almost a month, so the books are now scheduled to arrive on July 23. Once they do, I can haul a few cases of each in my car over to Paizo (they're about 40 minutes from my house) and they'll be able to ship out existing orders and activate the print books for shipping. Meanwhile, you can continue to preorder the hardbacks on our website.

I don't know Paizo's policies on "not in stock" items, but they may have a limit on how many orders they want to take for products they don't actually have yet, to save them time on refunds if for whatever reason their supplier doesn't deliver.

They pushed our ship date back by almost a month, so the books are now scheduled to arrive on July 23.

That's really cutting it close for Gen Con. If the date remains the same (23rd) you will have them available for the con? For not only just backers of the KS, but to purchase, as well?

Jason Nelson wrote:

They pushed our ship date back by almost a month, so the books are now scheduled to arrive on July 23.

That's really cutting it close for Gen Con. If the date remains the same (23rd) you will have them available for the con? For not only just backers of the KS, but to purchase, as well?

It is indeed. What we ended up having to do was pay extra to airmail 4 cases of each book to one of our LG folks who lives in Indy. I'll also be bringing 2-3 cases of each with me to GenCon. We'll have most of them at our booth #2639, but we'll also have some at the Paizo booth as well, plus one or two other booths.

Sounds like you have it covered!

One of my GMs will be attending as well, one who plans to go mythic in his campaign, and I really wanted to bring him over to the booth and show him the books. I’ve already told him about them and his interest is piqued.

Thanks for taking those extra steps in making sure you have copies at Gen Con. :)

Hobbun wrote:

Jason Nelson wrote:

They pushed our ship date back by almost a month, so the books are now scheduled to arrive on July 23.

That's really cutting it close for Gen Con. If the date remains the same (23rd) you will have them available for the con? For not only just backers of the KS, but to purchase, as well?

It is indeed. What we ended up having to do was pay extra to airmail 4 cases of each book to one of our LG folks who lives in Indy. I'll also be bringing 2-3 cases of each with me to GenCon. We'll have most of them at our booth #2639, but we'll also have some at the Paizo booth as well, plus one or two other booths.

Ouch! Getting ... hosed (I was going to use a different word, but decided to be a grown-up instead :) by a big printer all the way in China is not fun!

Ain't that the truth, Marc. It both sucks and blows (especially since yesterday I figured out a way I could have done it differently and saved several hundred dollars, but that's just headdesk hindsight). I'd think long and hard about doing business with this company again.

I hate that you guys are having so much trouble. You do such great work with your products. Keep your head up and hopefully things will get better.

Thanks for the kind words. I've heard from a couple of other 3PPs that have had some similar high-frustration issues with overseas printers this summer; maybe it's just a thing this year.

Our first go-round with this company for the Gothic Campaign Compendium went much more smoothly, but as the size and complexity of your project increase, so too do the complications, especially when you're dealing with multi-level companies spread across multiple countries. Word to the wise: If you must do it, just know that international logistics are verrrrry delicately balanced system, and what seems like a small tap on any part of the system has an awful lot of ripples.

Live and learn, eh? :)

I still have the hardcover "preordered", if demand is still greater than supply, will I still have a copy sometime in the future?

After many delays in the printing, import, and export process, the books are finally in Seattle, loaded on a freight truck, and will be delivered to our storage area on Monday!

While this is good news and a great relief to finally be able to finally get them in hand, the timing is unfortunate because we are leaving early Tuesday morning, so we will not have time to dive into shipping out our backer copies before GenCon as hoped. We may be able to make a delivery to the Paizo office on Monday, but most of their warehouse crew is already en route to GenCon, so it's uncertain how soon they will be able to process the books into their inventory and begin sending out copies. It may be during GenCon week or it may be after the full staff gets back, but at least we can say with surety that they'll have the books in hand shortly and they'll be on their way as soon as possible thereafter.

The saga of the Mythic Mania books has been far longer and more torturous than expected, and this year has been a bad one for smaller game companies and overseas printing and shipping. Legendary Games, Kobold Press, and Green Ronin have all had problems with missed ship dates and delays (ours went from May to June to July to LATE July with little explanation or justification), and in light of this experience we are making other arrangements for future print orders, such as for our Legendary Planet Kickstarter that is winding up on Monday. We pride ourselves on reliability and delivering terrific products on time (or early), and we were delighted to be able to get you the Mythic Mania PDFs before our May 2015 delivery date, but we've been disappointed at the delays we've experienced in trying to get the books to us so, so we can get them to you.

We look forward to putting a bow on the Mythic Mania project and getting each and every one of you a great set of books as soon as we can.

This fantastic book was briefly out of stock, but in clearing out some of our storage we found a few more and dropped them off to Paizo today (and kept a few for our own site sales). If you want a print copy of this fantastic resource, there are fewer than a dozen copies left of the entire print run!

In addition, if you are a HeroLab fan, the complete Mythic Hero's Handbook is also available now directly from LoneWolf. Check it out right here!

Glad to hear that the Hero Lab files have been updated. This book adds so much to our mythic campaign.

Glad to hear that the Hero Lab files have been updated. This book adds so much to our mythic campaign.

Yay, glad to hear it! This is one of the books I'm most proud of that we've done.

Dang. Can't afford the hardcover book and I'm not a fan of .pdfs. Guess I'm stuck with the core mythic book.

You should check out the dent sale on Legendary Games website.

Thanks, I will!

Alas, I only have two copies of the book left in stock, neither in the scratch and dent category.

However, you can email me at makeyourgamelegendary@gmail.com and we might be able to work something out!

I hope you can snag it DC! The book is truly mythic! ;

And now I am down to one lonely copy of the Mythic Hero's Handbook! Speak now or forever hold your peace!

As someone who owns physical copies, I do recommend them if you enjoy playing mythic games. XD Mythic Mania in general really makes a difference, both for player options and creating truly epic foes.

It's also got one of my favorite art pieces we've ever done for Legendary Games on the cover, so there's that. :)