No, it is still precision damage.
No empowering.
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Enlarge person should not increase damage. The damage is based on the spell, not on weapon size. If a natural large race druid cast the spell it would still do 1d8+1/2caster level in damage.
Empower spell would cause it to deal (1d8+1/2caster level)*1.5
So if you if you had a caster level of 10, you would deal 1d8*1.5+15 damage.
Sneak Attack is not a part of the spell's damage, and would not be affected by empower.
Empower Spell (Metamagic)
You can increase the power of your spells, causing them to deal more damage.
Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half, including bonuses to those dice rolls.
Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. An empowered spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.
The sneak attack damage is precision fire damage, but it is still not part of the spell.
Your size does not affect the damage from the spell. It still does 1d6. Nor does sneak attack increase in die size based on damage. If a huge dragon had sneak attack, then it is still 1d6.
Sneak attack also is not part of the spell. It is just extra damage that is added if your attack lands.
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The sneak attack damage is precision fire damage, but it is still not part of the spell.No offense, but Paizo has clarified time and again sneak attack is not a separate pool of damage. It has been stated that it is not a rider effect.
It is considered a part of the attack it is made with.Else sneak attack would not go off if you did not break DR, per the rules on rider effects. This is not the case in Pathfinder.
It is part of the total damage, but that does not make it part of the damage from the spell itself, which is why it won't work, just like it can't be multiplied on a crit. All of the damage is added together, but it does not gain all of the benefits of the "base damage".
Being "added on" does not make it into a rider affect.
The sneak attack damage is precision fire damage, but it is still not part of the spell.No offense, but Paizo has clarified time and again sneak attack is not a separate pool of damage. It has been stated that it is not a rider effect.
It is considered a part of the attack it is made with.Else sneak attack would not go off if you did not break DR, per the rules on rider effects. This is not the case in Pathfinder.
Edit: Grah! Do you people not read the freaking FAQ's? Sneak attack has been posted as not a separate pool of damage for nearly 2 years now!
Jesus, I thought this was resolved but clearly people continue to think that its extra damage added on when the developers of the game have flat out said otherwise!
No offense, but you don't understand the rules.
You're correct that sneak attack is not a separate pool of damage or a rider effect, but that is mostly in relation to DR and what type of damage the sneak attack is (piercing, bludgeoning, slashing, energy, etc).
However, that doesn't mean that it's part of the spells base damage, and since it is not (clearly it's not because it's not written in the spell) empower does nothing to it.
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Well there's nothing in flame blade to suggest that it deals less damage if cast by a smaller creature, so I see nothing to suggest that it deals more when cast by a larger creature.
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Well there's nothing in flame blade to suggest that it deals less damage if cast by a smaller creature, so I see nothing to suggest that it deals more when cast by a larger creature.You misundertand my point.
The spell damage doesn't change based on the size of the person casting it.
No matter who casts it the spell produces a 3' beam of fire in your hand.The question is what happens if the spell "Enlarge Person" is cast on the wielder after Flameblade is cast. By the terms of the spell the 3' beam of fire becomes a 6' beam of fire. So does the 1d8 damage dice of the weapon increase to 2d6 damage dice? As per increasing the size of weapons.
A "A 3-foot-long, blazing beam of red-hot fire springs forth from your hand." isn't equipment and isn't you. It is not modified by enlarge or reduce person, it is still there if you wast form or the dragon or wildshape into a ape.
Well, this FAQ does explicitly say that 'effects' that work on weapons work on spells such as flame blade. Since 'effects' is a catch-all term and enlarge person 'effects' a weapon, by logic enlarge person would work on flame blade.
Sneak Attack says that 'the rogue's attack deals extra damage.' If the 'attack' is made with the spell flame blade, then sneak attack is adding extra damage to the damage done by the spell flame blade, and thus would be empowered.
I'm not saying this is how stuff should work, but it seems to me that those are the most simple and logical interpretations by RAW.
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Well, this FAQ does explicitly say that 'effects' that work on weapons work on spells such as flame blade. Since 'effects' is a catch-all term and enlarge person 'effects' a weapon, by logic enlarge person would work on flame blade.
Enlarge isn't an effect that affect your weapon. It enlarge your equipment, weapons included. A flame blade isn't equipment in any way, it is a spell effect.
Sneak Attack says that 'the rogue's attack deals extra damage.' If the 'attack' is made with the spell flame blade, then sneak attack is adding extra damage to the damage done by the spell flame blade, and thus would be empowered.
"Extra damage" vs "Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half, including bonuses to those dice rolls."
Empower empower the numeric effects of a spell, not the extra damage than you add to it.
so it work with the intense spell ability of a evoker, as it modifies the spell damage, it don't work with sneak attack as it is extra damage added to the spell.
I'm not saying this is how stuff should work, but it seems to me that those are the most simple and logical interpretations by RAW.
No they aren't "logical interpretations of RAW", they are wishful thinking.
Enlarge isn't an effect that affect your weapon. It enlarge your equipment, weapons included. A flame blade isn't equipment in any way, it is a spell effect.
According to the FAQ, flame blade is affected by anything that would affect a weapon, plain and simple: "effects that affect weapons work on these spells". It doesn't matter if it is a spell effect when an FAQ explicitly says it is effected by anything that would effect a weapon. Now you can get into semantics over the fact that they say 'equipment' rather than explicitly stating 'weapons,' but as weapons are included within the category of equipment, its rather shaky ground. As you said yourself: "...your equipment, weapons included."
Empower empower the numeric effects of a spell, not the extra damage than you add to it.
so it work with the intense spell ability of a evoker, as it modifies the spell damage, it don't work with sneak attack as it is extra damage added to the spell.
Empower was FAQ'd to be inclusive, reversing a previous ruling on it. Discussed here. As Jason Bulmahn has explicitly stated, sneak attack damage is part of the 'damage roll'. Thus, part of the damage roll dictated by empowered flame blade. Thus, empowered.
No they aren't "logical interpretations of RAW", they are wishful thinking.
I'm not wishing for anything. I'm just attempting to apply logic and FAQ rulings to clarify a question by coming up with the simplest and most direct interpretation. I have no intention of ever using an empowered flame blade sneak attack, and would possibly houserule against it working by RAW. There's no call to make ad hominem attacks because someone disagrees with you.
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Enlarge isn't an effect that affect your weapon. It enlarge your equipment, weapons included. A flame blade isn't equipment in any way, it is a spell effect.According to the FAQ, flame blade is affected by anything that would affect a weapon, plain and simple: "effects that affect weapons work on these spells". It doesn't matter if it is a spell effect when an FAQ explicitly says it is effected by anything that would effect a weapon. Now you can get into semantics over the fact that they say 'equipment' rather than explicitly stating 'weapons,' but as weapons are included within the category of equipment, its rather shaky ground. As you said yourself: "...your equipment, weapons included."
Ray: Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?Yes. (See also this FAQ item for a similar question about rays and weapon feats.)
For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.
The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.
Enlarge PersonSchool transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S, M (powdered iron)
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one humanoid creature
Duration 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw Fortitude negates; Spell Resistance yes
This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. This increase changes the creature's size category to the next larger one. The target gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a –2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a –1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.
A humanoid creature whose size increases to Large has a space of 10 feet and a natural reach of 10 feet. This spell does not change the target's speed.
If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the creature attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it—the spell cannot be used to crush a creature by increasing its size.
All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee weapons affected by this spell deal more damage (see Table: Tiny and Large Weapon Damage). Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage. Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.
Enlarge person counters and dispels reduce person.
Enlarge person can be made permanent with a permanency spell.
Table: Tiny and Large Weapon Damage
Medium Weapon Damage Tiny Weapon Damage Large Weapon Damage
The blade deals 1d8 points of fire damage + 1 point per two caster levels (maximum +10).
It is fire damage, not weapon damage. The table refer weapon damage.
Empower was FAQ'd to be inclusive, reversing a previous ruling on it. Discussed here. As Jason Bulmahn has explicitly stated, sneak attack damage is part of the 'damage roll'. Thus, part of the damage roll dictated by empowered flame blade. Thus, empowered.Empower empower the numeric effects of a spell, not the extra damage than you add to it.
so it work with the intense spell ability of a evoker, as it modifies the spell damage, it don't work with sneak attack as it is extra damage added to the spell.
DR does not negate sneak attack damage. The sneak attack damage is not a special effect that accompanies the attack, it is part of the damage roll.
Hope that clears it up.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Yes, damage roll, not spell damage. Like the the electrical damager from a weapon with the shock property is part of the damage roll, but is not weapon damage.
Empower affect the spell damage, not the damage roll.
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I reiterate all my earlier points and based on posts I would like to say that Diego Rossi, Ashiel, and Wraithstrike all seem to be in agreement.
Now, yes, I am making an appeal to "authority" here. But these guys all tend to be pretty good with the rules. Occasionally errors are made, but in general with them all in agreement (and based on their activity on the board) I think their answer (and my answer) is clearly the correct one.
I'm often bad at explaining rules, but just as empower spell shouldn't enhance the extra damage that a bard's Inspire Courage provides to damage for a flame blade, sneak attack also doesn't provide extra damage.
And damage from the spell flame blade is independent of size. It is also not equipment, and not subject to being increased by enlarge person.
I just don't know what else to say.
RAW this works. Of course it is based solely on deliberately misinterpreting several FAQs that were written in plan language for normal people rather than in legalese for the Limburger munchkin crowd. And if you rely on deliberate misinterpretations for you cheese you should not be surprised when your cheese gets not only taken away, but thrown across the room.
...Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half including bonuses to those dice rolls...
[/b]
and
With all respect Empower doesn't say it only increases the spells base damage.
Come again? It says just that in that bolded part.
And "bonuses to those dice rolls" would be things like the +1/2 per level of flame blade that is part of the spells damage. As already iterated by others, Sneak Attack is not part of the spells damage - it is additional damage dice when an attack hits and meets the prerequisites for sneak attack damage.