Pathfinder Player Companion: Advanced Class Origins (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Player Companion: Advanced Class Origins (PFRPG)
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Unlock your character’s potential and become a master of the hybrid classes with Pathfinder Player Companion: Advanced Class Origins! Featuring never-before-seen rules options for the 10 new classes from the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Class Guide, this volume is the ultimate companion for bringing your hybrid class adventurer into the Pathfinder campaign setting. Whether your character is one of Geb’s enigmatic Twilight Sage arcanists, an investigator trained at Lepidstadt Academy in gothic Ustalav, or a scimitar-wielding swashbuckler dervish from Qadira, Advanced Class Origins makes sure her connection to Golarion is as powerful as her unique new skills and abilities.

Inside this book, you’ll find:

  • New archetypes and character options that integrate each of the 10 classes detailed in the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide into the world of Golarion.
  • Details on homelands, organizations, and institutions around the Inner Sea region to inform the background of your hybrid class adventurer.
  • New traits to represent skills your adventurer acquired from locales such as the demon-plagued Tanglebriar, war-torn Nirmathas, and the deep vastness of the Mwangi Jungle.
  • Tips and advice on how to use the new hybrid classes to qualify for prestige classes and weave a path of renown through the legends and myths of the Inner Sea.
  • New feats, spells, and items to augment the hexing powers of shamans and witches, empower animal companions with acidic bites, and much more!

This Pathfinder Player Companion is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and the Pathfinder campaign setting, but can easily be incorporated into any fantasy world.

Written by Dennis Baker, Ross Byers, Tom Phillips, Stephen Radney-MacFarland, Owen Stephens.
Cover Art by Igor Grechanyi.

Each monthly 32-page Pathfinder Player Companion contains several player-focused articles exploring the volume’s theme as well as short articles with innovative new rules for all types of characters, as well as traits to better anchor the player to the campaign.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-689-8

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Player Companion Subscription.

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Mechanical Options for the ACG classes


The bulk of Advanced Class Origins is made up of two page spreads for each of the ten new hybrid classes found in the Advanced Class Guide. Roughly one page is devoted to a discussion of common locations from where each hybrid class typically comes from, and the second page goes to mechanical options. The book then goes into new magic items, spells, and feats.

The flavor information is pretty much what a fan of Golarion would expect. Arcanists are from high magic societies, such as Absalom, Nex, and Geb; while skalds are from the Lands of the Linnorn Kings. I personally would have preferred more details on the less obvious choices. For example, skalds are apparently popular in the Taldor’s army, which is strange for the “empire in decline” to encourage raging warriors, and I would have liked to learn more about.

The meat of this book is the mechanical character options, which are to taste. For example, I like both the mechanics and flavor of the black blood bloodrager bloodline, and the seafaring dragon skald. However, some of the archetypes are for evil characters only, or are for very circumstantial builds. I do appreciate the callbacks to prior options, such as giving swashbucklers a whirling dervish archetype, and including scalykind and void blessings for warpriests. Each class spread has regional traits listed, some which are outrageously specific. For example, Lichblood can only be taken by characters from Belkzen with the undead bloodrager bloodline, and gives a +2 on Diplomacy and Intimidate checks only against orcs from Belkzen.

The book includes feats, magic items, and spells, of which the feats especially should have been in the Advanced Class Guide itself. Not just the infamous Fencing Grace (Dexterity to damage with the rapier), but Expanded Spell Kenning (allowing skalds to access the druid and witch spell list) and Pack Tactics (treating animal companions has fellow possessors of a teamwork feat).

Advanced Class Origins is recommended for players interested in the hybrid classes found in the Advanced Class Guide who are looking for a few additional mechanical options.


Good world-specific flavour

3/5

Read my full review on Of Dice and Pen.

On the whole, there is quite a bit of useful material in Advanced Class Origins for people who use the hybrid classes from Advanced Class Guide. Even though there are a lot of classes to cover and not a lot of space in the book, it manages to provide a good variety of options for each of those classes. It also does a good job of adding a lot of Golarion-specific flavour to the classes, with archetypes and abilities that are tied to specific locations in the campaign setting. Overall, it's a pretty decent book.


Where did your character come from?

4/5

I feel that Paizo's staff really hit the mark with this book. I like Golarion and I want to anchor my character into the setting. Advanced Class Origins does an excellent job of providing that opportunity for the hybrid classes recently introduced to the campaign. The options aren't superior, but they are immersive.


Minimal

1/5

It does basically what the description says. Nothing more. Add in how disappointing the actual ACG was as a whole, this one basically does the minimum to fix or empower what is needed, but instead focuses on holding your hand to fit a great deal of the newer classes into the more obvious flavor themes of the setting.

But in a lot of ways it fails to actually bridge the gaps even on that front. It was pretty clear in the ACG that the writers loved some classes and well, had to do something for the others. Thats basically repeated here, where some classes get cool stuff and others get a whatever scraps are left just so they have a new option in the book.

Lack of Favored Class material for the common non-core races is a huge let down. There is a section about Prestige Classes, but is kind of worthless as it basically traslates to ask your DM, (well, duh). There is just nowhere near enough in this book. What is there is writen well and enjoyable, but tends to be not terribly useful in favor of being niche. It partially feels like some of the almost finished material that they just couldnt fit into the ACG but not enough for its own book, so they added some filling in the form of setting flavor.

If you thought the ACG was perfect, you will probably like this one. If you wanted some fixes for that same book, its probably not for you. Its possible that when they get around to redoing the ACG that this book might get an indidect boost. Its probably not fair that the issues with the ACG directly affect this book as much as they do, but hopefully (if) when that changes, the reverse might be true as well.


More stuff, but not all stuff I care about

3/5

Advanced Class Guide Origins is more material for the new classes from the Advanced Class Guide, but with more Golarion fluff mixed in. I was sad to see that their expansion of the Slayer didn't include more talents, and there wasn't a lot here I cared about. Their Osirion themed Hunter archetype traded away the base Focuses for desert focuses, but unless you're trying to build something really specific these seem almost universally weaker. While there was some cool stuff sprinkled throughout and they provided some guidance on where everything fits in the Golarion world, nothing here really excited me.


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Contributor

Kudaku wrote:
zergtitan wrote:

What about the Liberty’s blade and the Mantis zealot?

to be perfectly honest I was hoping for the red mantis archetype to be for the slayer.

Yeah, I was hoping/expecting that as well - it seemed like an extremely good fit for the Slayer. A TWF sawtooth sabre warpriest of the mantis God might be interesting though, especially if the archetype gives him a few class features to take advantage of that play style.

Really, though, if you want to be a slayer who worships Achaekek all you really need to do is use your slayer talents to pick feats from Achaekek's deific combat style.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber

Anyone want to spoil the scarab stalker archetype? I'm about to start a hunter in Mummy's Mask, so it seems relevant.

Silver Crusade

Ulfen Beast-Wrestler?

Bruno grapple curiosity.


Any feats or traits?


What do the two new bloodrager bloodlines do?

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
zergtitan wrote:

What about the Liberty’s blade and the Mantis zealot?

to be perfectly honest I was hoping for the red mantis archetype to be for the slayer.

Spoiler:

Liberty's Blade gets: Freedom's Focus (must worship a deity that grants the Liberation blessing and can't take a second blessing), Devilslayer (adds devil bane to the list of sacred weapon enhancements), Channel Liberty (channels heal half the normal damage and grant liberating command, or harm devils as channel would harm undead), and Shield Against Hellspawn (add devil-defiant to the list of sacred armor enhancements).

Mantis Zealot gets: Mantis Sworn (must choose Achaekek as deity), Weapon/Armor Proficiency (proficient with simple, martial weapons and sawtooth sabre; proficient with light armor, no shields), Sneak Attack (replaces Sacred Weapon; +1d6 at 4th, +2d6 at 8th, etc.), Sacred Reflexes (1/Warpriest level, gain uncanny dodge as a swift action while in light armor), and Aspect of the Mantis (deals bleed damage when using Aspect of War instead of full moving).

-Skeld


Liberty's Blade sounds like a fun archetype to play in a devil-focused AP!

The Mantis Zealot... Kind of sounds like a straight downgrade to a normal warpriest of Achaekek?

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Alex Smith 908 wrote:
What do the two new bloodlines get?

Spoiler:

Black Blood gets: Black Blood (immune to black blood effects), Abnormal Reach (reach increases by 5'), Black Blood Resistance (resist cold 5, +2 to saves vs. ability drain, death effects, disease, energy drain, paralysis, poison; at level, bonuses increase to resist 10 and +4), Retributive Spray (slashing/piercing damage causes black blood damage to attacker), Black Blood Transfusion (when you crit, black blood covers your opponent and negates the next attempt to heal them), Black Blood Immunity (immunity to cold, nonlethal, crits, and sneak attacks).

Kyton gets: Painful Strike (sicken opponent on a crit), Grasping Chains (+4 to Climb), Armor of Chains (+4 armor bonus), Agony's Embrace (+2 bonus to Str when you suffer a crit), Unnerving Gaze (you gain a 30' gaze attack that shakens foes on a failed save), Kyton Immunities (immunity to cold, DR10/good&silver).

They both get some bonus feats and spells too.

-Skeld


I disagree. While I can't in my experience tell you whether Sacred weapon is better than slow sneak attack (It probably is), you do get sacred reflexes on top of that, which definitely helps given your tendency of being right in the middle of things. The loss of shields...Isn't a loss, since you're gonna be using two weapons anyway.

I think the true shame is that it ALMOST stacks with Cult Leader, which would give you even more sneak attack priest. Though, alot of DMs will probably let you go for it, given the only issue is they both change weapon proficiencies.

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
If you could talk a little bit about that mammoth spirit, I would truly appreciate it :)

Spoiler:

Mammoth Spirit gets: some spells (enlarge person (1), bull’s strength (2), rage (3), stoneskin (4), beast shape III (5), tar pool (6), summon nature’s ally VII (7), frightful aspect (8), polar midnight (9)), hexes (Burdan of the Beast, Mammoth's Hide, Phantom Stampede, Primal Speaker, Thunder Foot), spirit ability (Powerful Smash), greater spirit ability (Strength of the Beast), true spirit ability (Megafauna Companion)

In a nutshell.

-Skeld

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Galnörag wrote:
Anyone want to spoil the scarab stalker archetype? I'm about to start a hunter in Mummy's Mask, so it seems relevant.

Spoiler:

Scarab Stalker gets: Sacred Animal Focus (bull, falcon, snake, bee [+4 fly], cat [+4 acrobatics], cow [+1 fort], crocodile [+4 swim], ibis [+2 save vs. disease], jackal [+2 survival], kite [+1 HP when magically healed], leopard [+4 escape artist], lion [+4 intimidate], ram [+1 damage on charge attacks], scarab beetle [+1 natural armor], scorpion [+2 save vs. poison], sha [ignore perception penalty in sandstorms], uraeus [+2 saves vs. breath weapons]), Desert Walker (move through deserts at normal spell w/o taking damage or impairment unless the terrain has been magically altered)

-Skeld

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Bruno Breakbone wrote:

Ulfen Beast-Wrestler?

Bruno grapple curiosity.

Spoiler:

Ulfen Beast Wrestler gets: Beast Training (at level 3, replace Maneuver Training with +2 to CMD checks vs. creatures selected from the Ranger Favored Enemy list; select new creatures at levels 7, 11, 15, 19), Beast Defenses (replace AC Bonus with AC bonus against creatures selected above equal to 1/2 Beast Training bonus).

-Skeld

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Bardess wrote:
Any feats or traits?

Yes.

Spoiler:

Feats: Ambush Sense, Amplified Hex, Daggermark Lore, Eldritch Aid, Expanded Spell Kenning, Expanded Studies, Fencing Grace, Fighting Frenzy, Know Weakness, Mad Magic, Onslaught, Pack Attacks, Totem Beast, Unfair Grip.
Traits: Absalom Bouncer, Analytical, Bekyer Slave Maestro, Cultist Lineage, Erutaki Sky Reader, Failed Aspirant, Fangwood, Insurgent, Greenwood Stalker, Hellknght Devotion, Lastwall Defender, Lepidstadt Scar, Lichblood, Lion's Audacity, Nexian Corpse Hunter, Scion of Shory, Scourge of the Seas, Screaming Leap, Shadow Shaman, Shoanti Spirit Singer, Wind Wanderer.

-Skeld


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I just really want to see more things done with the Gunslinger and more info about Alkenstar. We have aliens and laser weapons now, lets get to more western gunfighting action!


Mekura wrote:

I disagree. While I can't in my experience tell you whether Sacred weapon is better than slow sneak attack (It probably is), you do get sacred reflexes on top of that, which definitely helps given your tendency of being right in the middle of things. The loss of shields...Isn't a loss, since you're gonna be using two weapons anyway.

I think the true shame is that it ALMOST stacks with Cult Leader, which would give you even more sneak attack priest. Though, alot of DMs will probably let you go for it, given the only issue is they both change weapon proficiencies.

Disclaimer: I haven't seen the archetype yet, this is based on Skeld's quick summary:

I agree that losing shields isn't a big deal, but losing medium and heavy armor to get proficiency with a weapon you'd be proficient with anyway kind of smarts, especially since heavy armor is still your best bet for high AC until your dexterity reaches the 30ies. You're losing three proficiency feats for no gain.

I do think Sacred Weapon v Sneak Attack is a fairly balanced trade, but I find both abilities kind of underwhelming. SW is flexible but has painfully short duration, while SA is all-day but inflexible and painfully conditional. Giving the class a swift action (oh good, another swift action) uncanny dodge to offset the situations he'll land himself in because he needs to get in the middle of things for sneak attack to pay off seems.. Yeah.

I really wish it got Studied Target instead of Sneak Attack. It fits the assassin concept better, is much easier to pull off, and the extremely skill-lacking Warpriest could really benefit from the extra 'assassin'-themed skill bonuses. The extra +to hit would have been handy as well.

It could have used a few infiltrator-type spells (like Invisibility, which would usually be gained through domains) and a few more skill points per level as well. I agree that if it stacks with Cult Leader it is a much more interesting archetype. Hopefully the phrasing on weapon/armor proficiency allows the combination. :)

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kudaku wrote:
Mekura wrote:
I agree that losing shields isn't a big deal, but losing medium and heavy armor to get proficiency with a weapon you'd be proficient with anyway kind of smarts, especially since heavy armor is still your best bet for high AC until your dexterity reaches the 30ies. You're losing three proficiency feats for no gain.

Although your point above stands, it's worth pointing out that you need Exotic Weapon Proficiency to get the full benefit from Sawtooth Saber. Whether EWP is worthwhile of not is another matter.

-Skeld

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Kudaku wrote:
Liberty's Blade sounds like a fun archetype to play in a devil-focused AP!

From the name I expected just somehting pro-Andoran and anti-slavery, but htat sounds specifically anti-Cheliax with all the anti-devil stuff.

I'm guessing it's a seed for Hell's Rebels.


Skeld wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
I agree that losing shields isn't a big deal, but losing medium and heavy armor to get proficiency with a weapon you'd be proficient with anyway kind of smarts, especially since heavy armor is still your best bet for high AC until your dexterity reaches the 30ies. You're losing three proficiency feats for no gain.

Although your point above stands, it's worth pointing out that you need Exotic Weapon Proficiency to get the full benefit from Sawtooth Saber. Whether EWP is worthwhile of not is another matter.

-Skeld

I believe the warpriest would get EWP: Sawtooth Sabre if he worships Achaekek, much like he would get EWP: Bastard Sword instead of MWP: Bastard Sword if he worships Feronia.

At least that's how I read this FAQ.

While I generally share your opinion on EWP, the sawtooth sabre is noteworthy since it is currently the only way to get Slashing Grace to work with two weapon fighting without eating the -4 penalty for fighting with two one-handed weapons.

Ross Byers wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
Liberty's Blade sounds like a fun archetype to play in a devil-focused AP!

From the name I expected just somehting pro-Andoran and anti-slavery, but htat sounds specifically anti-Cheliax with all the anti-devil stuff.

I'm guessing it's a seed for Hell's Rebels.

Yeah, that'd make sense. :)

Sovereign Court

What do Daggermark Lore and Know Weakness do?


What's the whirling dervish do? I'm assuming something involving scimitars, but anything interesting beyond that?


Are there:

---Any new Slayer talents?
---Any new Investigator talents?
---Any new Arcanist exploits?
---Any new Rage powers?

A quick sentence, what do each of the feats do?

Much appreciated!

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Skeld wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
If you could talk a little bit about that mammoth spirit, I would truly appreciate it :)

** spoiler omitted **

-Skeld

Thank you!

If it's no trouble:

Spoiler:
Could you tell me what the Powerful Smash Spirit Ability and Mammoth's Hide hex do?


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Any chance of spoiling what the new spells are, and what classes get them at what level?

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Neverwillibreak wrote:
What do Daggermark Lore and Know Weakness do?

Spoiler:

Daggermark Lore - allows you to use a selected poison more effectively.

Know Weakness - +1 attack/damage bonus when you correctly identify a monster with a knowledge check (requires Bardic Knowledge). [Something for Bards, yay!]

-Skeld

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dead Phoenix wrote:
What's the whirling dervish do? I'm assuming something involving scimitars, but anything interesting beyond that?

Spoiler:

Whirling Dervish gets: Dervish Finesse (treat scimitar as a 1-hand piercer for Shwashbuckler's Finesse and feats), Dawnflower's Mercy (no +1 panache for dropping a for below 0HP unless it's an evil outsider of undead; +1 panache against evil outsiders under certain conditions), Dervish Dance (Dex mod to melee damage when using Swashbuckler Finesse), Deeds (Whirlwind Dance, Dance of Dawn, Dance of Mercy).

-Skeld

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Barachiel Shina wrote:

Are there:

---Any new Slayer talents?
---Any new Investigator talents?
---Any new Arcanist exploits?
---Any new Rage powers?

A quick sentence, what do each of the feats do?

Much appreciated!

Spoiler:

Slayer talents - Blood Reader, Studied Ally
Investigator talents - Applied Engineering, Domino Effect, Prolonged Study, Slowing Strike, Timed Strike
Arcanist exploits - Altered Shifting, First-World, Face Thief, First-World Illusion Catcher, Lepidstadt Shifter, Nidalese Shadow Veil, Sonic Blast, Third Eye
Rage powers - didn't see any

-Skeld

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Barachiel Shina wrote:

A quick sentence, what do each of the feats do?

Much appreciated!

Spoiler:

Ambush Sense - Perception bonus to avoid surprises
Amplified Hex - sacrifice a spell slot to make a hex more powerful
Eldritch Aid - sacrifice a spell slot to grant additional magic energy to a nearby caster
Expanded Spell Kenning - can select a spell from either Druid or Witch spell lists
Expanded Studies - add 7th level spells to your spell list fo rthe purpose of using spell trigger items (Hunter or Warpriest only)
Fencing Grace - DEX TO DAMAGE (with a rapier)
Fighting Frenzy - Teamwork feat; don't take the -2 AC for ragin if an ally with this feet is with 60'
Mad Magic - cast seplls from any class that grants you sepll while bloodraging
Onslaught -add Sneak Attack to the first attack you make in a surprise round if you use Power Attack (flanking, Dex denial not required)
Pack Attacks - animal companion is treated as having all your Teamwork feats for determining whether you and/or allies receive Teamwork benefits
Totem Beast - animal companion takes on aspects of Hunter's Animal Focus
Unfair Grip - +1 on grapple; -1 to opponent's trying to escape grapple

-Skeld

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
Skeld wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
If you could talk a little bit about that mammoth spirit, I would truly appreciate it :)

** spoiler omitted **

-Skeld

Thank you!

If it's no trouble:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Powerful Smash - foe must Fort save or be dazed by Shaman's unarmed strikes

Mammoth Hide - grant a creature +2 natural armor and resist cold 5

-Skeld

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Luthorne wrote:
Any chance of spoiling what the new spells are, and what classes get them at what level?

Spoiler:

acid maw - druid 1, ranger 1
arcane disruption - bard 2, bloodrager 2, magus 2, sor/wiz 2, witch 2
blood salvation - bloodrager 3
defensive grace - investigator 5
energy hack - sor/wiz 4
imbue hex - shaman 5, witch 5
phantom hunt - druid 4, ranger 4
spirit call - druid 1, shaman 1
wrathful weapon - cleric 4

-Skeld


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thanks.

1) Out of curiosity, what's the Bekyar Demon Dancer like?

2) Can you list the organizations and institutions mentioned? Preferably with a one sentence synopsis, but if that's too much trouble, it's fine to skip.

3) What does it say about qualifying for prestige classes with the new classes?


Too bad. I was hoping for a Daemon bloodline. The two presented do sound interesting though.


Unfair Grip seems pretty weak for a feat


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

What are the Magic Items in the book?


What are the prereqs for Fencing Grace?

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Axial wrote:
What are the prereqs for Fencing Grace?

Exactly what Jason Bulhman said they were last month. Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Rapier), Dex 13. Its basically the same as Slashing Grace, but you need to select Weapon Focus with the Rapier.

Shadow Lodge

So, . . . basically you need two separate Feat Chains to do the exact same thing with a Rapier and also a non-Rapier that qualifies?


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Axial wrote:
What are the prereqs for Fencing Grace?
Exactly what Jason Bulhman said they were last month. Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Rapier), Dex 13. Its basically the same as Slashing Grace, but you need to select Weapon Focus with the Rapier.

So Fencing Grace only works with the Rapier? So no way to get it with other piercing weapons?

Dark Archive

Dread Knight wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Axial wrote:
What are the prereqs for Fencing Grace?
Exactly what Jason Bulhman said they were last month. Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Rapier), Dex 13. Its basically the same as Slashing Grace, but you need to select Weapon Focus with the Rapier.
So Fencing Grace only works with the Rapier? So no way to get it with other piercing weapons?

You could pick up martial versatility and then use fencing grace with any light blades

Contributor

Dread Knight wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Axial wrote:
What are the prereqs for Fencing Grace?
Exactly what Jason Bulhman said they were last month. Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Rapier), Dex 13. Its basically the same as Slashing Grace, but you need to select Weapon Focus with the Rapier.
So Fencing Grace only works with the Rapier? So no way to get it with other piercing weapons?

As written, Fencing Grace will not get you Dex to damage with any weapons except the Rapier.

Quote:
So, . . . basically you need two separate Feat Chains to do the exact same thing with a Rapier and also a non-Rapier that qualifies?

I wouldn't call it a separate chain. More like a separate feat, because the only real differences in Slashing Grace and Fencing Grace's prerequisites is that one requires Weapon Focus with a rapier and the other Weapon Focus with a slashing weapon. You take one feat for slashing weapons and another for the rapier. You also get a nifty bonus to your CMD against disarm and sunder attempts if you have the panache class feature.

Even though the design is/will be "boring," I'm hoping that we get more Dex to damage feats, but for now the Whirling Dervish archetype will have to suffice instead.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

On the face of it Whirling Dervish is nice from both effectiveness (free dervish dance, scimitar use plus move while full attacking at level 7 for a point of panache although only for one attack per opponent albeit at full bab) and flavour (you don't regain panache for a kill unless it's a devil/undead or if they surrender to you or you drop them with non lethal dmg.).


Super curious what those new Investigator Talents do.

Contributor

Helvellyn wrote:
On the face of it Whirling Dervish is nice from both effectiveness (free dervish dance, scimitar use plus move while full attacking at level 7 for a point of panache although only for one attack per opponent albeit at full bab) and flavour (you don't regain panache for a kill unless it's a devil/undead or if they surrender to you or you drop them with non lethal dmg.).

Reread Dervish Finesse and Dervish Dance. They don't get 'free' Dervish Dance. Its much, much better then that.

Silver Crusade

I have to say, not really amazed by the hunter archetypes, they are pretty much campaign and region specific. The Scarab Stalker is very melee focused (no bonus to dex, and a bonus to charge attack rolls), and the scarab beetle focus seems extremely weak (especially compared the similar ability on the Verminous Hunter, which does scale properly). Not a bad archetype, but some trades like giving up evasion for a bonus against breath weapons seem unreasonable.

Uprooter Scout doesn't give up too many useful abilities, but then again, unless you are in the right regions most abilities won't be very useful.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

does it have anything that would be good for my chaotic good fetchling arcanist/veiled illusionist??


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Haven't done a full read, but more than a skim of my pdf. I really like what I see in this book so far. So much so that I'm glad I kept my subscription after I found myself thinking of letting it go. :)


Soooo. I know you've been so great at spoiling for us Skeld, and others, but one question from me if nobody minds... Do Bloodragers have the Blood Rage spell?

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

DEFENSIVE GRACE p. 31

is this really a spell?

it's for investigators only but they only do extracts

if so this would the the 1st investigator spell


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

How does Dervish Finesse work?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Mh i had really hoped to see Dex to damage with other piercing weapons, and if it´s just for some diversity.


chopswil wrote:

DEFENSIVE GRACE p. 31

is this really a spell?

it's for investigators only but they only do extracts

if so this would the the 1st investigator spell

Alchemical extracts are traditionally treated as 'spells', and listed as such.

It's just an alternative casting mechanic.

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