Ultimate War (PFRPG)

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Take your battles to the sea, the skies, and beyond!

This rules supplement delves takes the incredible expansion of Pathfinder Roleplaying Game mass combat rules in Ultimate Battle and takes it into new realms of warfare. Fantasy mass combat rules have typically focused on land warfare, but Ultimate War continues to expand the rules developed in its predecessor and in Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Ultimate Campaign to create a seamlessly integrated mass combat system that connects the battlefield on land to the action in the skies above, the seas beyond, and the deeps below. It also provides detailed rules for siege warfare, from simple blockade and bombardment to incendiaries, plague, infiltration, and dramatic escalades. Ultimate War also includes an all-new system of modular unit building and operations, allowing development of versatile combined arms units or simplified squadron-level aerial or naval battles. Ultimate War contains:

  • 12 new command boons like Falling Dusk, Surgical Strike, and War Chant
  • 10 aerial vehicles from mundane balloons and gliders to floating citadels and war rockets
  • 13 new tactics for aerial units from strafing and dive bombing to aerial boarding operations and diving out of the sun, as well as 4 special tactics for ground units to use against fliers
  • 23 naval vehicles from war canoes and longships to ironclads and submersibles
  • 13 naval tactics from ramming and beaching to shearing the oars or cutting the rigging
  • 31 siege weapons from catapults and ballistae to cannons and mines, plus rules for artillerists, 8 different special siege tactics, and 7 magical siege weapons from the blizzard ballista to the zombie apocalypse siege shot

If you are looking to expand your mass combat options that work seamlessly with the kingdom rulership rules in Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Ultimate Campaign and in Ultimate Rulership, look no further than Ultimate War and its companion volume, Ultimate Battle.

Pick up Ultimate War today to bring amazing depth and dimension to mass combat in your campaign and Make Your Game Legendary!

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Takes mass conflict in a whole new direction

5/5

Several of them, actually. Into the air, the water, against the castle, greater unit detail, and much more.

Really, Endzeitgeist covered just about everything that could possibly be said about this wonderful product, so I'll keep it short. It has short sections on new command boons and combined arms, allowing you to put different troops types together in one unit. So if you want a pike/shot/sword unit like the Spanish tercios or the like, you're covered.

The main parts of the book cover three new types of warfare.

First is war in the sky, involving everything from flying creatures to msgical/steampunk-ish airships for those of you who want to scratch your Jules Verne itch. There are several different types of airship offered, as well as just what sort of resources your kingdom needs to build them. You also get rules on how to combine airships into squadrons for fleet actions.

War in the water follows. It allows for both simple and complex ships, including what's needed to make them. You get the squadron rules here too, as well as how to handle warfare beneath the waves. Ever wanted to have a horde of sahuagin fight a fleet of ironclads with diving bells? Now you can!

Both sections also have lists and explanations of available tactics in aerial or naval warfare, which is helpful.

The last part covers siege warfare, and it does so very thoroughly. It lists weapons ranging from catapults and mantlets to bombards, firedrakes, and cannon. It also lists tactics and options for both defender and besieger, as well as just what it costs in consumption to engage in a siege. Suffice to say that you'll want to end them quickly.

The book ends with some magical siege weapons and siege shot. Why hurl plain old stone at a wall when you can fling zombie apocalypse siege shot or use a thunderbolt cannon instead?

It is a great book for fans of military conflict and mass combat in Pathfinder. Five stars and worth every penny.


An Endzeitgeist.com review

5/5

The third expansion of the kingdom building/mass combat rules presented in Ultimate Campaign, expanded by the very man who wrote the original rules, clocks in at 45 pages, 1 page front cover, 2 pages editorial, 1 page SRD, 1 page ToC, 2 pages on how-to-use/what to expect, 1 page advertisement and 1 page back cover, leaving us with 36 pages of content, so let's take a look!

This supplement kick off by eliminating two of my most serious gripes with the base mass combat rules from Ultimate Campaign. Number one: Ultimate Campaign does not distinguish between ranged and melee capacity, instead subsuming both under the termino umbrellone of OM, Offense Modifier. This resulted potentially in ridiculous scenarios of elven archer beating orc berserkers in melee. Ultimate War gets rid of OM in favor of separate Melee Value and Ranged Values, abbreviated MV and RV. YES!!! Secondly, the hit points as an abstract measurement to determine an army's deceased is replaced with casualties - which can be tracked individually/separately for sub-units etc., allowing much more detailed and finer tactical nuances. Best of all - both allow for easy downscaling back into Ultimate Campaign's base system, if you prefer the simpler take.

Leadership Bonus of a commander is equal to +1 for every full 5 ranks in Profession (Soldier) and high BABs (+6, +11, +16), Wis or Cha modifiers, certain feats etc. can further increase this bonus. The rather rudimentary selection of command boons is also expanded by this supplement - and the boons are great - Battlefield illumination (or making light-conditions worse!), autosupplying itself, con/desecrate battlefields, divine healing or barrages, smoke screens or particular proficiency when deployed against aerial armies - glorious! Have I mentioned the awesome effects of war chants or the option to execute precise, less damaging assaults via surgical strikes? Brilliant!

Speaking of which - combined arms. Where the general army as a base unit type would be the catch-all default, the rules provided herein allow for a finer distinction. Via these rules, armies are made up of units, which in turn can be made up of several divisions. This is analogue to the distinctions between fleet->squadron->ships. The number of soldiers in a unit is the same as the one in the default rules' army. Creating a unit follows, according to these rules, simple steps - you pay and gather them, you assign a commander (with PCs being particularly potent!) - which influences the amount of divisions in a unit a commander can handle - 3+ cha-mod, max 5 divisions can be contained and losing a division penalizes the unit. Each division can take casualties equal to its ACR before being defeated - this concludes that each unit has hit points equal to ACR times 5. Divisions reduced to 0 hp can be healed normally, but additional damage annihilates them. MV and RV are ACR+leadership bonus of the commander, provided the unit is properly equipped. If not all divisions are equipped to execute one type of attack, the overall value suffers - cool!

Morale score is the kingdom's loyalty divided by 20, min 1, max 10 and determines all the psychological components. A default value and advice for using morale sans kingdom building (Kudos!!) can also be found here. Determining overland movement, scouting capacity, camouflage, name and home-base - in 12 easy steps, just about every DM should be able to create an army - on my first try, it took me less than 5 minutes to properly apply these rules and generate a unit - WITH double-checking that I got everything right.

Each army may contain a number of units equal to the general's cha-mod+3, further increased by leadership, certain boons, etc. Battle Phases are influenced by the new distinctions between ranged and melee values - hence, a concise run-down of the phases is provided, thankfully including proper inclusion of not only the new casualties mechanic. It should also be noted that recruiting armies works perfectly in synergy with Ultimate Rulership as well as the base system. Applying simplified combats between aerial and naval ships etc. would also be discussed here. Now I've already mentioned aerial combat and indeed, aerial reconnaissance, altitude levels, visibility, concise effects of different wind strengths - the peculiarities of aerial combat are well addressed in sufficient details - from balloons to flying carpets and floating fortresses, this chapter adds the third dimension to mass combat - war rockets, solar sailors - every companion of the firmaments-using campaign should consider this the way to add mass combat to their arrays - glorious! (Be honest - you always wanted to fight dragons while aboard a war rocket!) And yes, this does provide full DVs, cover, dmg, stall, crash etc. values - and if that doesn't mean anything to you by now, then only because you don't have the pdf before you - the system is ridiculously easy to grasp and concise in its presentation.

Easy to grasp stats for vessels with drift speeds or those being able to climb altitudes, hovering etc. - all here and supplemented further by 12 unique tactics - from soaring sweeps to dogfighting and strafing runs, aerial combat has scarcely been this awesome and tactical! Now, of course this opens a whole new field - i.e. the combat of earthbound units versus airborne assailants - and from options like digging in to using grapnel shots, a whole new dimension, literally, is added to mass combat. Now if that isn't yet enough for you, let's take a look at yet another expansion - the one to the sea. "But wait, EZG," you say "I already have 3 systems for naval combats to choose from and didn't you say that Frog God Games' "Fire as She Bears" was absolutely awesome? Yes, I did, and I still consider the system the best naval combat system available for any d20-iteration. However, we're not talking about skirmishes between a couple of vessels, we're talking about the clash of whole fleets! And for that, well, let's just say that the rules herein apply the same thoroughness to naval warfare as to that in the skies - depth zones (which allow for submarines and magical threats), wind effects and naval units...ask and ye shall find herein. By the way: All you require, once again provided in detail including required buildings to procure them (forgot to mention that regarding aerial units - yes, when used with kingdom-building, required buildings etc. are provided!) alongside massive tables of sample vessels in one handy tome. Want to know the level of detail these rules support - the difficulty of fighting back once your vessel's been sunk may impose a massive penalty, but it doesn't mean that your unit can't take down a hostile ship.

Which also becomes relevant since the system utilizes one unified frame of rules. Why is that important? Let's say a unit of sahuagin on board of a balloon has attacked your galley; You manage to put down the balloon and it crashes into the sea - you can continue playing all levels of combats like that with one single system. Want to play the fantasy-equivalent of the D-Day? Go ahead, these rules have you covered! Now while there is bound to be some overlap with the aerial tactics, I should not fail to mention that naval combat also receives quite an array of unique, naval tactics that add even more options to the fray.

Now sooner or later, assault on fortifications is bound to happen - and if you ever tried to use ultimate combat and campaign in one and the same campaign, you may have noticed some discrepancy there - instead of assuming abstract siege engines to be a part of a given unit, we receive a special, Knowledge (engineering)-and int-based LB to determine how commanders of units of artillery work - which makes MUCH more sense and allows for generals to specifically target these weapons...

Speaking of strategies - the array of ranged and close-quarters siege weaponry and the vast array of associated strategies, from bombardment (e.g. via smoke, plagued corpses, etc...) to infiltration and scatter volleys makes for a superb selection of choices - even before the 7 new magical siege weapons - like apocalypse zombie siege shots, adamantine rams or ooze-siege shots - glorious!

The pdf also comes with a neat index of the tables for quick reference and it should be noted that perfect rules-synergy with Ultimate Campaign, Ultimate Rulership and Ultimate Battle is maintained.

Conclusion:
Editing and formatting are top-notch, I didn't notice any significant glitches. Layout adheres to legendary Games' two-column full-color standard with awesome full-color artworks. The pdf is relatively printer-friendly and comes fully bookmarked for your convenience. The pdf also contains the good type of hyperlink, making the rules presented even easier to grasp.

Jason Nelson took a *long* time making this final piece of the triumvirate of expansions and refinements to Paizo's kingdom building/mass-combat system (which he also wrote, just fyi). It is not a big surprise then, that the resulting books, unfettered from the limitations of page-count and relative simplicity, have been an utter BLAST to read and use. Offering options to get rid of some overly generic simplifications of the base system, the first two books were beyond superb and managed to add so incredibly much to the base systems I never, ever want to play kingdom building and mass combat without their options again.

Now the thing is - Ultimate War was pending and its task was to close the final gaps and cover the true clash of armies, remembering all the small modifications AND refining the base system. I'll make this short:

If you even remotely plan to run mass combat BUY THIS NOW. The additional options, even if you use neither aerial, nor naval or siege combat, are GOLD: The fact that they work perfectly together makes for truly dynamic mass combat. the vast expansion of boons and tactics translate to mass combat that is infinitely more exciting, strategic and ultimately fun. Now it's perhaps due to approximately 15K points of warhammer miniatures in my attic, but I expect some tactical options from a given system and Ultimate War's expansion fits the bill perfectly - indeed, the variance and peculiarities of aerial combat and naval combat allow for a finer gradation in these areas.

The most impressive component of these rules, beyond their modularity and synergy, though, would be the fact that this one system supports not only all those particular special cases, it allows for transparency and overlap between them - ships that can turn aerial? Why not! Cadres of wyrms rising from the waves to take to the skies, then land and wreck havoc among the elven archers?? Go for it, with this book, you can properly portray that - and the dogfight between the draconic assault and the giant eagle riding knights in the air! The assault of the gnomish submersible-riding saboteurs on the siege-weapon bearing frigate. This book is glorious, a must-buy for everyone who considered the base rules of Ultimate Campaign too simple, too rudimentary - with this, you could conceivably play a thoroughly compelling, interesting, strategic CAMPAIGN of warfare - and honestly, I'd probably have a nerdgasm if Legendary Games released a full mass combat-AP using these rules. For now, I have to plot, devise strategies and generate *a lot* of adventure material; I just have resolved to up the emphasis on war in my current campaign!

This book is brilliant, a worthy successor to its stellar companion books, and well worth a final rating of 5 stars + seal of approval + nomination as a candidate for my top ten of 2014. An absolute must-buy-level tome and one that also receive the endzeitgeist essential-tag as one of the must-have tomes for a campaign!

Endzeitgeist out.


Inspiration and nothing more

2/5

One of the things that I noticed firstly when I looked trough the book, was its artwork. It is stylish and gives a feel of battle and strife, which is very appropriate considering what the book contains.. War!

It contains allot of good inspiration about how you can run aerial, naval and siege battles. Sadly, that is the only thing it gives. Inspiration to how you can make your own rules. Not a finished mechanic which you can just hand out to your players. I had hoped for something more solid, but the the inspiration it does give however, is good.

But the book suffers from a good deal of writing/editing errors (which I hope to create a list of for them so they may correct it), lack of description on some the mechanics. And the rules for aerial and naval battles works differently, which in my opinion, drags down the game with even more rules. No matter if a ship is in the water or in the air, the mechanic could be more or less the same. No need to create a new system for it.

Note: I have both Ultimate Battle and Ultimate Campaign, which this book is "a part off", and the mentioned lack of mechanics is not in these as fare as I could find.

I can see that the book might be something for people who likes allot of details in their battles, but they would still have to fill out the holes in the rules themselves.

If the editing errors and lack of explaining would be addressed, I would give this book 3 stars instead. I would even say that its worth 4 stars for people who like the details it can give to an army.

Søren Høeg Pedersen


Webstore Gninja Minion

Now available!

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

THE WAR HAS BEGUN!


YESSSSSS!!!!!!!!


Hi,

Some questions regarding ultimate war/battle

Why are the troops so expensive, ulimate battle states that the cost for 25 troops is 1 bp per week, that seems like a lot of money, 4000gp per week to put 25 men in the field?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I really should have been checking for this more often...

Purchased it, now, though, and my first quick read-through has me wanting to have a serious play with these rules.

@statefarm: You've made the most common mistake that occurs when looking at the kingdom rules, which is to 1) treat the BP purchase price as its value and 2) treat BP as a currency.

Build Points represent a kingdom's government's ability to (please excuse the corporate-speak) leverage their influence with the citizens of the kingdom to make things happen. Part of this is cash reserves, but by no means all of it.

Then there's the point that a single BP should really be valued at 2,000 gp, not 4,000. Consider, please, that there is no real difference between a ruler taking money out of the treasury for their own, and spending it on a building, except that the citizens see the former as selfish (hence the Loyalty check). Yes, it takes more to "buy" a BP, but a BPs "purchasing power" is only 2,000 gp. It's a bit like the difference between purchasing and earning capital in the downtime system.

The BP cost of an army includes (but is not limited to): training costs, accommodation costs, food costs, administrative costs, equipment costs, logistics costs, and salaries. All of that can rack up pretty fast.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

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To follow up on Chemlak's statement, the idea of BP is that they represent not just the material goods associated with a thing, but also the investment in human(oid) resources. That is, the labor of the people is its own "resource" from the point of view of the kingdom, and people devoting their time to soldiering are not devoting their time to other resource-productive activities of the kingdom.

The system is intentionally abstract, and part of that abstraction is conceiving of BP as "the total value of everything your kingdom is doing" rather than "pile of gold in the palace vault."


Hello there

Been looking through this product and I some what liked what I found (especially in the Ult. Campaign and Ult Battle). But questions have arise during my reading..

In the original rules, siege weapons simply dealt their damage automatically to the defenses of the settlement/fortifications and increased the OM of the army. But I have been unable to find any place in the Ultimate rules, mentioning when or how to apply the siege weapons damage.

1. Is it automatically dealt during the melee phase as per normal rules, except to BP instead of Defense?
1a. If so, what about ships and planes? Are they also automatically dealt damage?
2. Why have a higher ACR army of siege engineres if they automatically hit?
2. Ships and planes has a Defense modifier, but what is this? Does it add to some kind of AC that the vessel has that is not mentioned?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Fourth time lucky posting this...

Ships, siege engines and aircraft are units. Treat them exactly as you would an army.

So:

1) Theyre units. They make attacks like any other unit, OM vs DV, in the ranged or melee phase as appropriate.
1a) See 1.
2) They don't automatically hit. Higher ACR means higher OM.
2*) I can't find a Defense modifier for ships or aircraft. The only thing I can find is their DV or their cover for the crew, both of which are described in the rules.


1) Okay. So instead of having a die type x ACR in HP, a vessel have a set number of HP which isn't affected by a higher ACR? If so, that seems a little sad.. But then again, many of the vessels have allot of HP and FP :P

2) I was writing a longer response about siege damage and how to calculate damage, and realized that there is actually a difference between a siege weapon and a vessel on that account. The Siege weapon receives siege damage, and a vessel receives normal damage. This had me very confused. Why make that difference when both are in essence the same (and object)?

2a) This was mostly in relevance to sieges which in the original rules, automatically dealt damage in the melee phase. Did Ultimate War/battle changed this? Do you have to make a roll to hit a building/wall like all other OM checks, and if so; what is the difficulty of this?


Reviewed first on endzietgeist.com, then submitted to Nerdtrek, GMS magazine and Lou Agresta's RPGaggression and posted here, on OBS and d20pfsrd.com's shop. Cheers!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Heck of a review, there, Endy. And spot-on, IMO.


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That's an amazing review as always, End. And I agree with the idea of a mass-combat focused AP, possibly with characters as somethng like late medieval condottieri. I know I'd buy it!


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Eric Hinkle wrote:
That's an amazing review as always, End. And I agree with the idea of a mass-combat focused AP, possibly with characters as somethng like late medieval condottieri. I know I'd buy it!

A good mix of mass combat and Heroes of Battle-style adventuring would be an instabuy for me, even if it's "only" a module.


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@Heine Stick: May I suggest Iron Wall Gap Must Hold by AAW Games?

And Chemlak + Eric - thank you for the kindness, it's encouragement like this that fuels me and keeps me going!


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I just saw End's review get posted over on the Legendary Games site. Mention was made of the upcoming Ultimate Armies book -- can someone from LG let us know just what one will that one be covering, again?


Endzeitgeist wrote:

@Heine Stick: May I suggest Iron Wall Gap Must Hold by AAW Games?

And Chemlak + Eric - thank you for the kindness, it's encouragement like this that fuels me and keeps me going!

Thank you, End. I also just put the adventure you listed on my wishlist for a future purchase based on your review; would you say that it could be made to work with the more involved and complex rules of Ultimate War and Ultimate Battle?


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It is my impression that at least part of the book will contain army stat blocks for GMs to use in their games. The NPC Codex of mass combat, so to speak. I might be wrong, of course, and it's something else entirely.

In my geekiest dreams, this book is a good mix of support for Legendary Games' mass combat books (stat blocks, etc.) AND support for the troop subtype.


Endzeitgeist wrote:
@Heine Stick: May I suggest Iron Wall Gap Must Hold by AAW Games?

Ha! I purchased the adventure back when you posted your review. :)


Heine Stick wrote:

It is my impression that at least part of the book will contain army stat blocks for GMs to use in their games. The NPC Codex of mass combat, so to speak. I might be wrong, of course, and it's something else entirely.

In my geekiest dreams, this book is a good mix of support for Legendary Games' mass combat books (stat blocks, etc.) AND support for the troop subtype.

I hope that this is indeed what we get. I'd love to see someone do something with the Troop subtype/template. It'd be great to get some guidelines on how to keep low-level monsters a threat to higher-level PCs without making every mook a 10th-level character.


Would love to see more stuff done with the troop subtype. (For one - turn it into a robust, functioning template.)

I'd pay for that.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

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Hi all,

Ultimate Armies is simmering in the background, with work progressing on a couple of fronts.

1. Part of UA will deal with mercenaries and mercenary companies. This was something I had intended to include in Ultimate War at one point, but the scope and focus of the book often shifts during writing and it ended up seeming like a better fit in another book.

2. UA will indeed deal with the troop subtype as a bridging element between character-level and army-level mass combat.

3. @Arnwyn: The troop subtype will include a template version.

4. @Heine: The description of Ultimate Armies as being a sort of "NPC Codex" of armies is apt, and the pregenerated armies will be especially useful for players of the various official Adventure Paths that have scenarios that could easily be adapted as mass combat scenarios. Just sayin' if, for instance, there was a Fortress full of Stone Giants and their allies that you wanted to assault, there might be some support for things like that across many APs.

5. We also have a couple of other contributors working on character options that integrate with the mass combat/kingdom-building rules and with the troop subtype. It's possible this may end up as its own standalone product, or it may end up in Ultimate Armies; that will depend on the final scope of the design and how it fits.


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Jason Nelson wrote:

Hi all,

Ultimate Armies is simmering in the background, with work progressing on a couple of fronts.

1. Part of UA will deal with mercenaries and mercenary companies. This was something I had intended to include in Ultimate War at one point, but the scope and focus of the book often shifts during writing and it ended up seeming like a better fit in another book.

2. UA will indeed deal with the troop subtype as a bridging element between character-level and army-level mass combat.

3. @Arnwyn: The troop subtype will include a template version.

4. @Heine: The description of Ultimate Armies as being a sort of "NPC Codex" of armies is apt, and the pregenerated armies will be especially useful for players of the various official Adventure Paths that have scenarios that could easily be adapted as mass combat scenarios. Just sayin' if, for instance, there was a Fortress full of Stone Giants and their allies that you wanted to assault, there might be some support for things like that across many APs.

5. We also have a couple of other contributors working on character options that integrate with the mass combat/kingdom-building rules and with the troop subtype. It's possible this may end up as its own standalone product, or it may end up in Ultimate Armies; that will depend on the final scope of the design and how it fits.

2 & 3 are the best bits of news here, but all of this sounds great to me. Thanks for letting us know what we can look forward to.


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That does excite me. One of the reasons I had bought Ultimate War is because to my last read there would be Mercenaries. I was momentarily upset by the lack of it when I first started to read it, but I am beginning to read it more closely now and I am getting interested in it again.

Seriously cannot wait for Ultimate Armies, though. Trying to work on something and I am going to have to just guess-work myself Mercenaries until such time as the book comes out.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

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Sorry to have disappointed, Thurazor. I had hoped to include the mercenaries section in there, but the aerial, nautical, combined arms, and siege sections just kept growing in the writing and eventually something had to give. Sometimes a book's organic themes only become apparent in the writing process, and that ended up being the direction there. This month is the last frantic rush to the finish on our giant mythic project from last year, but once that's out the door I'll have a nice break to breathe and catch up on projects like this one.

I think you'll be very happy with what's coming in Ultimate Armies.


Jason Nelson wrote:

This month is the last frantic rush to the finish on our giant mythic project from last year, but once that's out the door I'll have a nice break to breathe and catch up on projects like this one.

I think you'll be very happy with what's coming in Ultimate Armies.

Good news!


It was only a temporary disappointment, Jason. I'm still reading over things and the addition of Divisions into the military units does make things more interesting. I am re-creating my concept for mass combat on your books, so there is no room for me to complain about it. :P However, I will be beyond pleased when Ultimate Armies comes out. Trying to hold out for that book. :)


Ooh, just discovered this and Ultimate Battle!! Looking forward to getting them next pay cycle!

Jason - any updates you're willing & able to share on Ultimate Armies? From the sounds of it, that's gonna be the one I need if my players successfully start a mercenary company.


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cannon fodder wrote:

Ooh, just discovered this and Ultimate Battle!! Looking forward to getting them next pay cycle!

Jason - any updates you're willing & able to share on Ultimate Armies? From the sounds of it, that's gonna be the one I need if my players successfully start a mercenary company.

I can honestly say that if you and your players like mass combat, they will love this book and Ultimate Battle as well.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

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Ultimate Armies is still targeted for a GenCon release.

Work work work work work work... :)


Jason Nelson wrote:

Ultimate Armies is still targeted for a GenCon release.

Work work work work work work... :)

Yaaay!!! Can't wait!!! Hope to pick it up then!!


Jason Nelson wrote:

Ultimate Armies is still targeted for a GenCon release.

Work work work work work work... :)

I am so looking forward to it. Hopefully by then we'll also be seeing that one release about tournaments as well.


A question regarding the book: I don't get the use of divisions. Should I use them as a "small" army, with the statistics of an army two size smaller?


Yumeko wrote:
A question regarding the book: I don't get the use of divisions. Should I use them as a "small" army, with the statistics of an army two size smaller?

Division are just part of a full unit, permitting you to have differently-equipped troops in a single group of soldiers. That's really all they're used for. You don't have to use them unless you want to add some complexity to the troops you have.


Hm, trying to understand, as i have to use these rules...

Example: I have a battalion of 1st human level warriors: that means I have 300 soldiers, ACR 7 and can take 35 casualties. This unit has 5 divisions of 60 men: each one can take 7 casualties. Let's say that I have two divisions equipped with swords, one with horses and two with bows.

Approach 1) Divisions are just "cosmetic". Then why do they have a "hp" value? Should i assume that once a unit take casualties equal to 1/5 of its 'hp', a division is defeated? And is the different equipment cosmetic as well?

Approach 2) Divisions are "smaller units". "A division has similar combat statistics to a unit two size smaller." This should mean that i can equip a division differently from another one from the same unit. And they have MV, RV and DV as a unit two size smaller, modified by their equipment. But with this approach, the statistic of a unit as a whole are useless, as i'm using divisions to fight. Is this right?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Personally, I probably wouldn't have divisions differently equipped: their purpose seems to mostly be for tracking a unit's damage, and also for determining if a unit is at full strength to start (if the unit commander can only command 4 divisions, the unit will be under strength from the get go). They also allow for easy splitting of a unit for independent action. Yes, divisions are a bit weird, being neither fish, nor fowl, nor fine red herring.

I wonder if there's a bit missing under the combined arms rules for working out a unit's OM, DV, etc, based on the specific divisions that make up the unit.


I hope Ultimate Armies will clarify on this.


Well, I (finally) posted my own review here. It can't begin to match to End's, but I hope it helps convince people to buy this one.

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