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There is some tangent I thought of with Conference Z. Does Golarion use the Roman alphabet or at least have the letter Z in one of their alphabets somewhere? This book is still in the middle of shipping to me so I don't know if that's it's actual name?
Normally I would just chalk things up like that to suspension of disbelief as it's needed in a meta sense to understand what happens in the world, sort of like how the people in Star Wars can speak perfect English despite living a long time ago in a galaxy far way. It would suck watching a movie and not understanding anybody in it or having to make up whole fictional languages and use subtitles so it's understandable.
Here however if something is going to be actually named after a letter of the alphabet in setting that's harder to do. Even more so when you consider that Paizo thought it was a good idea to put Earth in the setting. It's harder to justify the thinking that the people are really speaking something else or the letters are different and we are just seeing them in our own language in the books for the sake of convenience.
Aboleths did it.
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Also relevant. (Second one down of the three; man does it sound awful. So friggin' cool.)
While I understand and share your issue, I choose to explain it away as thus: there is an alphabet. They use it. That alphabet has a "first" letter in order, and a "last" much as we (arbitrarily) place "A" at the "front" of our alphabet and "Z" at the end.
Since everything is a "closest similarity" anyway, linguistically, that's what's happening here (and in all similar cases): we're getting a closest similarity instead of an actual direct translation.
And... using letters for short-hand or mystery is actually something that's not relegated to the English Alphabet (the Latin Script that we use). It is, in fact, effectively utilized in different ways in languages across the world with different alphabets and styles.
Now - not all languages actually utilize true alphabets like English does. Chinese, for example. But even there, there's a tendency toward simplification and reduction.
To that end, the view I've chosen to adopt for all such works is that, unless otherwise explicitly noted, what we see for any given difference, linguistically, is the "closest translation" - something that would make sense for us, and them, but doesn't necessarily mean the same thing.
This is the exact kind of thing that you have to accept and utilize if you're going to use any sort of out-of-character puzzle for your PCs to overcome: the PCs have one set of knowledge/experience, the players have another (closest-translation). Is something rhyming? It makes sense to the PCs anyway, despite being a different language.
As JessOtaku occasionally notes, sometimes the translation is "loosey-goosey" and sometimes that's a good thing (as it helps convey the emotional experience as well as the actual).
Everyone's mileage may vary, of course. :)
Can we get a bit more info on the Knights of the Ioun Star ???
Does it say who/where there are still members ?
What are the rewards like ?
Shameless BUMP....
** spoiler omitted **My goodness!
It's almost by design! ;)
Both of you, Stop stealing my ideas! ;)
Jim, did you contribute to this particular part of the book?
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** spoiler omitted **My goodness!
It's almost by design! ;)
Both of you, Stop stealing my ideas! ;)
Jim, did you contribute to this particular part of the book?
Yes I did!
I contributed:
The Aucturn Engima. The Harbingers of Fate. The Book of 1,000 Whispers, The Way of Kirin, Aleh Almaktoum, and The Inward-Facing Circle
All the authors and their sections are listed in the preface.
They're magi (as in, plural of magus). Don't know if that has been mentioned yet.Shameless BUMP....Can we get a bit more info on the Knights of the Ioun Star ???
Does it say who/where there are still members ?
What are the rewards like ?
Yes....that part has been mentioned....
Some of the comments earlier "implied" that at least one of the two sects is still marginally active ?I'm wondering where ?
What ethnicity ?
And what does membership involve in the current age ?
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They're magi (as in, plural of magus). Don't know if that has been mentioned yet.Shameless BUMP....Can we get a bit more info on the Knights of the Ioun Star ???
Does it say who/where there are still members ?
What are the rewards like ?
Yes....that part has been mentioned....
Some of the comments earlier "implied" that at least one of the two sects is still marginally active ?I'm wondering where ?
What ethnicity ?
And what does membership involve in the current age ?
The Eastern Stars are more active. They can be found in any city and membership is just finding the group which is a Knowledge history check. The tasks are based on Lost lore and returning ioun stones to the Knights. rewards are more towards believing you are going to be someone great and getting special ioun stones.
Edit: I would personly add in something like leadership as members would start to believe you are "the one" they have been waiting for.
membership is just finding the group which is a Knowledge history check.
Are they based in a specific location...or spread all over the Inner Sea ?
The tasks are based on Lost lore and returning ioun stones to the Knights. rewards are more towards believing you are going to be someone great and getting special ioun stones.
Edit: I would personly add in something like leadership as members would start to believe you are "the one" they have been waiting for.
So they are still looking for "The LAST Azlanti" ???
All over the inner sea. and yep they are still looking for the last Azlanti as they did not belief Aroden was him because he died.
Many thanks Brad2411....
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This book is chock full of awesomeness! Kudos to the writers!!
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This book is chock full of awesomeness! Kudos to the writers!!
Agreed. Easily one of the best Campaign Setting books. For me, every page was an extravaganza of ideas both as a player and as a GM.
Wishes it was Wednesday........ :(
So what kind of information do they go into on the Veiled Masters ?
I've just read my pdf and all I have to say is…
Sacred Geometry: Oh, my!
Never has it been better to be a maths geek in Pathfinder play!!! Please let it make the Additional Resources sheet!!! Please..
I've just read my pdf and all I have to say is…
Sacred Geometry: Oh, my!
Never has it been better to be a maths geek in Pathfinder play!!! Please let it make the Additional Resources sheet!!! Please..
I've been working on a Geometer....so my eye's shot out of my head when I saw those as well....just wish it wasn't so complicated....I can see it really slowing down game play :(
Overall I thought it was well done. I still would have liked some solid answers about the subjects in the book instead of a list of maybes.
For better or worse they probably don't want to give definitive answers because if it's ambiguous then the GM and/or players can decide for themselves.
Also this is Occult Mysteries, not Occult Answers. ;]
-Kcinlive
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Love the Numerology stuff, but the Numerological Evocation spell seems wonky.
According to the text (if I'm reading it right, and I could be totally wrong!), you get 1d6 for every 2 caster levels to spend.
One (or more?) die is spent on choosing your damage type.
One die is spent on number of targets affected.
One (or more) die is spent on range (10 ft. x die numbers).
Any remaining dice are added up and the primary target takes that damage, and all others take half that.
A Wizard gets this 3rd-level spell at 5th level, and will have 2d6 to allocate. Minimum one on damage type. Mandatory one on number of targets. Zero left for range, zero left for damage.
A Sorcerer gets this 3rd level spell at 6th level, and will have 3d6 to allocate. Minimum one on damage type. Mandatory one on number of targets. One for range (10-60 ft.). *Still* zero left for damage.
A Magus or Witch gets this spell at 7th level, and will have 3d6 to allocate. Minimum one for damage type. Mandatory one on number of targets. At least one for range (10-60 ft.). And still nothing left for damage...
By 8th level, any of these casters will finally get *a single d6* damage to apply to a single primary target (all others will take *half* of that single d6 for damage). So, after having this spell in his book for three levels, it finally will be usable for a Wizard, but still *incredibly* weak.
If it was 1d6/level instead of /2 levels, it would be immediately useful (if still very weak) at 5th level, when a Wizard gets it, as he would have 2d6 left over to damage the primary target (half damage to any other targets), assuming he didn't want to spent multiple dice on increasing the range or adding another damage type. It would also get better and actually become something potentially useful around 10th+ level, particularly if combined with Enlarge, Empower and / or Maximize metamagics.
The spell also introduces the concept of Air, Earth and Water typed evocation damage, which might leave one wondering how those damage types interact with creatures with the Air, Earth and Water types (such as certain types of dragon, elemental or genie).
Finally, the option to have the spell inflict multiple types of damage, such as Fire, Sonic and Earth, exists, in which case, some guidelines as to how an 'Earth / Fire / Sonic' blast would interact with a creature with some combination of energy resistance or fire immunity or fire vulnerability, could be useful.
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(4714 must have seemed so far away in 4708. Time flies!)It did, it really did...
Spring 4718 is only a day a-way!
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Overall I thought it was well done. I still would have liked some solid answers about the subjects in the book instead of a list of maybes.
Me too. It's one of the few areas I really disagree with Paizo's creative philosophy. I think they did the various in-world theories well, but I'd much prefer to read the actual truth. I only enjoy mystery books when I get to read the answer at the end. Leaving it hanging just annoys me.
Nonetheless, I think it's an exceptional book for what it does - I just wish it went slightly further.
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The Pain Taster 5th level Pain Mastery class ability seems to be designed around the Disciple of Pain class ability but refers to the Masochism ability, both by name, and in mechanics (sacrificing hit points for a bonus).
Funky class, 'though. I was wondering if it was going to tie into the Mortification stuff, after reading that chapter, in a manner similar to how the Mystery Cultist in Chronicles of the Righteous pushed up the effects of performing a celestial Obedience.
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I do prefer the 'choose your own mystery' list of options over one clear cut 'this answer is correct.'
For instance, I might decide that the mystery of volume 5 of the Pathfinder Chronicles is that the Decemvirate decided that a location described therein would make a rocking secret hideout for the gang, and moved in to start measuring the drapes, only for one or more of them to end up stuck there, unable to leave. (Perhaps one of them even dying and coming back as a ghost, bound to that location.) Now with a vested interest in keeping others away from their new headquarters (which they can't just up and abandon), they quickly moved to destroy all references to that location... Perhaps it's less of a case of 'can't leave' and more of a 'won't leave,' because there's an awesome power source there, or some other cool thing (people in the extra-dimensional lair at the center of the labyrinth can still scry on and interact with the mortal world through intermediaries and sendings, but no longer age!). Either way, the 'big secret' is that the location is really cool, and the Decemvirate don't want to share.
Also, kind of love that there's a LG secret society. Cool. :)
To what category do the cosmic caravan traits belong? Or do they slot into a mix of categories on an individual basis? (If the former, I'm guessing Magic; if the latter, it looks to me like Magic and Social could encompass them all.) Or, indeed, do they fall into their own category?
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Do we get any info on the Peacock Spirit and it's followers in this manual?
Not really. The Emerald Codex of the Therassic Order is listed in the Other Occult Writings and given a very brief description, but that's it.
(4714 must have seemed so far away in 4708. Time flies!)It did, it really did...
Perhaps they'll serendipitously discover a Volume 2...
To what category do the cosmic caravan traits belong? Or do they slot into a mix of categories on an individual basis? (If the former, I'm guessing Magic; if the latter, it looks to me like Magic and Social could encompass them all.) Or, indeed, do they fall into their own category?They run the gamut. There are boosts to saving throws against certain effects, skill checks, initiative, and movement speed, as well as the use of minor spell-like abilities.
No, what trait category do they fit into? There's none listed. Do they constitute an entirely new list of Astrological Traits?
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Regarding Sacred Geometry as a time-sink:
Since the feat increases casting time to a full round, I would rule that a player has time to work out an arithmetic solution until it is her turn again.
This work well since the result will be available when the casting is complete.
Regarding Calculating Mind:
(paraphrasing) "Any combination of d6s and d8s, not to exceed ranks in Knowledge(engineering)"
This seems to offer a lot more flexibility than the default Sacred Geometry!
Do we get any info on the Peacock Spirit and it's followers in this manual?
Not really. The Emerald Codex of the Therassic Order is listed in the Other Occult Writings and given a very brief description, but that's it.
Oh bloody skeletons!
Love the Numerology stuff, but the Numerological Evocation spell seems wonky.
According to the text (if I'm reading it right, and I could be totally wrong!), you get 1d6 for every 2 caster levels to spend.
etc.
Yeah, this spell seems completely busted. I was planning to pop in and ask about it, assuming that maybe I was missing something, but you beat me to it. You missed another problem, though: it uses d6 for the energy type, but the energy type table uses d8. As stands, you can't get Cold or Earth (which does not seem deliberate, given that there is nothing special about those two types). To be honest, a lot of the numerology spells seem a bit iffy (neat ideas, questionable implementation), but this one seems completely unusable. Pity, as I rather liked the idea...
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Yeah, this spell seems completely busted. I was planning to pop in and ask about it, assuming that maybe I was missing something, but you beat me to it. You missed another problem, though: it uses d6 for the energy type, but the energy type table uses d8. As stands, you can't get Cold or Earth (which does not seem deliberate, given that there is nothing special about those two types).
It does say that you can use multiple dice for this step (which I assumed meant that you could produce rays of two different energy types, but now realize would be necessary to get cold or earth damage, by using a rolled 3 and a 4, or a 5 and a 3).
If you did do that 'though, you'd be pushing back the level at which the spell has any effect *at all* another two levels. Yikes.
Upping it to 1d6/level fixes much of it, but how (or if at all) the Air, Earth and Water damage interact with the Air, Earth and Water subtypes remains vague, and having the damage type based on 1d6 on an eight level chart, requiring two dice to get those 7 or 8 results does suggest that there should be something about those 7 or 8 results *worth* spending twice as many dice results (such as sticking a harder to resist damage type there, like force or 'divine power').
I'm not sure if bumping the spell to 1d8 / level would end up making it a bit too good around 15th level or so, but someone could be throwing a bunch of maximized scorching rays or empowered toppling magic missiles by then, which would almost always be a better choice anyway...
Eh. Love the mathy bits for some of those spells, assigning number values to letters and working out quick sums. Funky.
After reading Dragons Revisited, and the description of Green Dragons being heavily into astrology and numerology, combined with the mention of the Saoc Brotherhood astrologers and the Last Theorum / Four Pharaohs numerology, I've been waiting for some further exploration of the magic of astrology and numerology.
Any updated ETA on when, and if, any material from this source book will be added to the PFS additional resources?
I have a question about the Pain Taster prestige class.
The Disciple of Pain class ability refers to daily hour-long self-torture routines, both the more intentse "starter" versions and the less intense "follow-up" versions. But nowhere do I see the hit point damage and other damage caused by these routines. And there must be some, considering both the descriptions and the reference under the Pain Mastery class ability.
Did something get left out, or am I suffering from selective blindness?
As a side note, when comparing the Occult Mysteries version and the original version (in AP 15, The Armageddon Echo), the Disciple of Pain description has now been seriously upped in its "ick" factor. Maybe the mechanics didn't catch up with the flavour?
And why did the author remove the reference to the Fortitude DC 15 (or Will DC 20) saving throw needed to survive the initiation rite into the prestige class?
Does no one have anything to say on the topic?
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I have a question about the Pain Taster prestige class.
The Disciple of Pain class ability refers to daily hour-long self-torture routines, both the more intentse "starter" versions and the less intense "follow-up" versions. But nowhere do I see the hit point damage and other damage caused by these routines. And there must be some, considering both the descriptions and the reference under the Pain Mastery class ability.
Did something get left out, or am I suffering from selective blindness?
In addition to that, I observed earlier that the 5th level Pain Mastery ability appears to be designed around the Disciple of Pain class ability, but instead refers to the Masochism ability (both in name and mechanics, sacrificing hit points for a bonus).
I imagine that, during conversion / updating, something got changed in mid-design, and not all changes were propogated successfully.
Also, kind of odd that in a book with new mortification techniques / rules, the Pain Taster wouldn't really interact with them. Possibly those two rules elements were written by different people who did not know what the other hand was doing and couldn't coordinate their developments?
Probably something (the questions about Pain Mastery / Masochism / Disciple of Pain) that should be FAQ'd.
Unfortunately, one cannot FAQ a post in the product thread. :(
If no one else has already done it, I'll start a thread in the Rules Question forum (assuming that that's the best place for it).
A new thread on these issues has now been started in the Campaign Setting/Products forum. Hopefully we will get an answer!
2.5 weeks since last post. Still looking to see if any of the material will be allowed in PFS.