Deep Magic (PFRPG) PDF

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Unlimited Spellpower!

Deep Magic is a 376-page full-color tome with some of the strangest, most wondrous, and most powerful arcane and divine magic ever devised—ready for use in any Pathfinder Roleplaying Game campaign.

Deep Magic offers an astounding variety of new magic options by Jason Bulmahn, Wolfgang Baur, Ed Greenwood, Owen K.C. Stephens, Jim Groves, Amber E. Scott, Stephen Radney-MacFarland, and many others!

You’ll find:

  • 733 arcane and divine spells, including elemental-tinged dragon magic, ley line magic, and spells for mythic heroes
  • New spellbooks to easily introduce these spells into your game
  • 31 new glyphs and runes, plus rules for creating a wide array of magical symbols
  • 19 new sorcerer bloodlines, and 8 oracle mysteries
  • 11 new incantations granting powerful magic options to non-casters
  • More than a dozen new archetypes, with some ready-made examples to serve as quest-givers, villains, or rivals in your campaign
  • All-new magical specialities, curses, and subschools, including rakshasa magic, chaos magic, and new forms of necromancy and ioun magic
  • And much more!

With these new spells and options, your characters (or your villains) can become masters of blood magic, clockwork magic, dragon magic, or shadow magic. Seek out hidden colleges and academies of lost lore. Learn new runes, glyphs, and incantations to crack open the walls of reality—or just bend them a bit.

Deep Magic is an essential volume for any spellcaster’s library. Use it wisely and well!

"The quality and quantity of content this book offers is sure to sate even the most demanding gamer (e.g., me). Everything from the gaming content to the layout to the artwork to the organization is of the highest quality. From new magic options such as battle magic, blood magic, ley line magic and gambling magic to 200 pages of new spells to new spell-casting archetypes to magical constructs... Deep Magic delivers again and again and again. This book could literally have been a two or three separate books. Deep Magic is a masterpiece that will certainly influence my gaming sessions for years to come." —Doug Bailey

"The book itself is just super pleasing. It even SMELLS great. The non-glossy pages that fill this massive tome are a refreshing change as well.
As for the content. I've not even read everything, but I've read all the bloodlines and archetypes. They are dope." —Legomojo, Paizo.com

"I'm in love with it. Ioun stone magic is prolly my fave, but the rune magic is a very close second.
I've never been so happy with a group of non-core magic rules since the Tome of Magic, and if you knew how many anima mages, binders, incarnum users, bards, and wizards I've played—well, let's just say it's been a lot. GMs beware—my spellbook is loaded." —RaiderRPG, Paizo.com

"There’s so much well written inspiring material contained inside this hefty tome... If you’re playing a spell caster, if you're thinking about playing a spell caster, if you’re running a game currently, or if you’re even thinking about running a game in the future, pick yourself up a copy today. You will not be disappointed. Deep Magic gets a full 5d20s on my inspiration scale. It’s fun, inspiring, and a good read." —TrunkForce7, Paizo.com

"This book is a great product. It is overflowing with information and is full of art by very talented individuals. If you are big fan of magic-users and want to play something out of the ordinary or never seen before, this is the book for you. It does not matter if your character is good or evil, there is something for every arcane class. Pick it up, you will not be disappointed." —Skyland Games

"I have been reading through this book off and on since it was released and I have been greatly enjoying it. The added versatility has made the game much more enjoyable for me and given me many new options that I have been wanting for a long time. My personal favorite of all the new spells is heart skewer." —Bradley M, DriveThruRPG

Deep Magic Errata
Last Updated 4/29/2014

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An Endzeitgeist.com review

3/5

This massive, huge tome clocks in at 378 pages, 1 page front cover, 1 page inside of front cover, 1 page editorial, 3 pages backer-list, 2 pages of ToC, 1 page SRD, 1 page advertisement, 1 page back cover, leaving us with 367 pages of content, so let's...

...wait. I can't really convey the illusion of spontaneity here. Why? Because I have written and deleted this review 3 times as I'm writing these lines. This is quite literally one of the hardest reviews I have ever written, mainly because conveying my stance on Deep Magic is pretty ambiguous and prone to misinterpretation.

But let's start at the beginning. This book is beautiful. Thanks to one particularly helpful gentleman, I managed to pledge by proxy over him (didn't have the bucks when the KS ran...) and when this book's physical copy arrived in the mail, I was utterly blown away. Not only did I receive a massive, gorgeous stitch-bound hardcover, it was in gorgeous full color and sported some of the very best pieces of artwork I've EVER SEEN. The matte paper helps create an illusion of an "old" tome and the superb, copious artworks render this book so beautiful, it even mops the floor with quite a few Paizo-books. Yes, that gorgeous. The layout, with its parchment-look, its subdued, unobtrusive glyphs further enhances this. Deep Magic is one of the most mind-staggeringly gorgeous books I've ever had the pleasure to read and both artists and layout-artists have been up to their A+++-game. Kudos!

Then, I went on and started reading beyond the forewords and the introductory short story by Ed Greenwood and after them, yes, I was utterly blown away and totally in the mind-set for the things to come:

The first we see would be the respective magical traditions. Old time fans of Kobold Quarterly and Kobold Press will see quite an array of old favorites herein again - from blood magic to fool's summonings, quite a bunch of conceptual goldies can be found herein. At their very best, these new traditions are ridiculously inspired - new ioun stones and ley lines would be two such examples. The latter, for examples, can be tapped by casters with concise rules to tap into their powers - while very powerful, these ley-lines can not only make for interesting tools that can turn the tide of battle and e.g. prevent a TPK or provide unique, cool ways to execute narratives. The transient nature of ley lines and the option to burn them out/change their course places control firmly within the hands of the DM, preventing abuse. That being said, as a DM, I have to decidedly advise against making the numerous ley line feats available for PCs - their balancing is odd/non-existent, with no-save, no-SR 1-round blinding effects and the like not necessarily constituting good resources to place in player hands.

The fool's summoning tricks go a different way - beyond interesting, more risky, but also more powerful summoning tricks, a copious amount of spells receive flavorful modifications and reskins - which brings me to another point. These traditions sport unique effects, and the same holds true for chaos/wonder magic, with distinct, odd effects and abilities rendering the experience of playing the respective schools pretty interesting. Alas, not all of the traditions herein receive such interesting rules - in fact, quite a few of the traditions adhere to the following presentation: We receive a short fluff-text, spell-lists by caster/level and then, a sample spellbook, including preparation ritual. (And yes, rules for intelligent, living spellbooks can be found herein as well - they are pretty sinister and narrative gold.)Now don't get me wrong, I *love* the inclusion of these books, but all in all, the respective "schools"/traditions, at least partially, feel too rudimentary - there is not enough to set the spells themselves apart, no guidance to develop additional spells for such a school and some classes receive e.g. one exclusive spell for such a tradition - not much reason to pick a tradition. By providing a tighter focus, the traditions could have been infinitely more compelling, more specific...but...on the other hand, we for example receive a complete, new full-blown mythic path with the living saint.

What are living saints? Well, for one, they are chosen of god(s) - what I mean by this is that, like many a mythological leader of religious prowess, these guys experience a highly interesting phase of tribulations, wherein they are severed from their gods and besieged by the whole pantheon - essentially, all gods can tempt the saint towards their ideology and sphere of influence, proposing different spells etc. for obeisance and quests. This can also be used for interesting foreshadowing and over all, the mythic path, intended for divine casters, is pretty much a cool choice with plenty of narrative potential ingrained into the very fabric of the thing, especially due to the numerous spells sporting names of the saints, adding a cool narrative dimension and unobtrusive fluff to these miraculous powers. This mythic path is the first that actually feels like it could have originated in fiction, like it not only provides a rules-escalation, but an actually defining, narrative tool. I adore this path and the resonance of our own world's myths, with obvious references to Christian (sans the ideology, mind you - you can't be offended by this guy) narrative structures that are very ingrained into how we perceive certain myths, this path is a thing of beauty.

Vril, the unique pseudo-atlantean power-source introduced in Sunken Empires (inspired by Bulwer-Lytton's writing) also receives new specialists, both archetype, feat and spell-wise. Converting spells into vril-blasts, for example, is pretty interesting. That being said, careful looks into this system also shows us a couple of somewhat odd choices - the archetypes, for example, are separated and relegated to their own chapter - so instead of looking up e.g. vril magic, you have to know where what can be found. Yes, organization is neatly organized by crunch-type, but in a book this focused on awesome concepts, I think another solution would have been appropriate. Also odd - Ink Magic, in depiction pretty much a tradition, can be found in the chapter on rune-magic. Strange.

But this line of reasoning brings me to the first issue of this book, though it is admittedly one of preference. The traditions as such, as has always been the strong forte of Kobold Press, just BRIM with imagination. They provide iconic, well--crafted concepts that set the imagination ablaze. I know a couple of them from their original books and the fluff, usually, did in some way limit the respective traditions - whether it's the lost magic of vril, the blood magic of some limited tribes/traditions or the lost magic used to slow the progress of the Wasted West's Old Ones...there always was this implied scarcity, this alignment of crunch with philosophies, ethnicities and accomplishments. So the PCs have this powerful spell xyz, BECAUSE they have taken on caster zxy, because they have braved the ruins of Gru'tharkrr...

This book collects all of these traditions and breaks their spells into a massive, huge chapter, dissolving the lines between them and implying by its very organization a general availability not implied in singular presentations - essentially, we have a disjunction of fluff from crunch to a certain extent. Now this means that you have to search the spells in the lists if you want to make a specialist, but have an easier time when just browsing through the book, looking for spells generally available - hence, the implication is that these spells are available freely, akin to how spell presentation works in Paizo's big books. Now don't get me wrong, one could argue that THIS is exactly what this book tries to do, analogue to the big Paizo-books, where you essentially slap down the book and have a general extension of the arsenal. My contention, ultimately, is that this is balance-wise one of the decisions that shoot the book in its metaphorical foot.

In my first iteration of this review, I went through all of the crunch here in these traditions step-by-step - alas, this bloated the review to the point where it wasn't helpful anymore. (And if I'm saying that, with my tendency towards verbose reviews, you'll have an inkling of what a monstrosity this would have become - my guess was 20+ pages - and let's be honest, no one would read that...)

So, Deep Magic does sport, a HUGE chapter of spells, both new and old - all collated and organized by handy spell-levels. This chapter is where my first and second review-attempts broke apart. The first one due to my so far pretty jubilant review receiving a harsh dose of reality, the second because I realized that step-by-step analysis makes no sense, bloating the review. If that was not ample clue - not all is well here. It is only understandable that a vast array of authors will have diverging voices and different mastery of the system and yes, this does show herein. Now before you get the pitchforks, let me state one thing explicitly and clearly - the *concepts* of these spells are WONDROUS. Gorgeous. Superb. They are iconic. They *feel* like magic, not like some energy-colored damage-dealing vehicles. They manage to capture the elusive spirit of what magic ought to be and bring the "magic" back into a game often lost and sorely missed. I'd take the concepts of this book over those in Ultimate Magic and Combat combined any day.

The concepts.

For there is no way around the following statement, no way to sugar-coat it without outright lying. There are a lot of cool, functional spells herein. However, there also is a vast array of spells that would have desperately required the hands of an editor who truly knows rules-language and/or a capable developer. Name the issue and you have a very good chance of finding a representative of the issue herein, quite possibly in a spell that you absolutely love concept-wise.

This chapter almost broke my heart.

Any closer analysis shows ample problems, often to the point of rendering a spell highly ambiguous, unbalanced or downright inoperable - there are examples of authors obviously mixing up flat-footed and touch attack AC. Mechanics more closely related to 3.X-design. Spells that do not allow for saves which should. SR that is ignored when comparable spells allow for it. Contradictions between spell-block and its text. Faulty AoEs/ranges/targets. False spell-block formatting. Wrong save. Damage-escalation. You name it. Damage + no-save stagger at a level where it's ridiculous. Non-sense descriptor-placement. Balance is not even crying in the corner anymore, it is utterly GONE, evaporated into some nebulous dimension. Some author(s) seem to not get the distinction between material components, foci and divine foci. Unspecified bleed damage à la inflict " receives bleed 3" - bleed 3 WHAT? Hp? Attribute? What about a spell generating an AoE geyser-like effect that gets just about everything wrong you can possibly get wrong regarding AoEs? Racial spells that could have simply used focus as a limiting component instead of wonky wording-crutches that try (badly) to cut out other races? Sentences that peter off. Wording so convoluted I can't tell you how exactly a spell works. You name the glitch, it's here - and right next to it, you may see one of the coolest spells ever.

This massive chapter was one of the most heart-rending experiences of my reviewer-career. My first skip through it saw me exhilarated. Closer scrutiny brought disappointment, actual in-depth analysis...well, there's no way around it...pain. Now beyond the glitches, the balance-concerns herein may partially stem from bad design-choices and lack of rules-language development...but at least partially, they also have their origin in the simple fact that the book took the "soft" restrictions that served as a balancing factor before and took them away by smashing all spells into one big chapter. Where before, spells may have been "broken", but rare, the implication here is that they are freely available, exacerbating what might before have been a reward into power-escalation. Now yes, in face of the vast army of issues that plague this chapter, even a change in presentation in the proposed way would be a drop of water in a vast desert of issues and would do nothing to render the formal issues void...but yeah, that would be one exacerbating factor.

And one that extends, alas, to the next chapter. I am a huge fan of runic/glyph magic. Allowing non-casters to learn the powers of rues is one of the most-beloved tropes for me - whether clad in a pseudo-Scandinavian guise or via lovecraftian alignment with aboleths et al.; The very concepts of the runes are powerful, and intentionally so. But once again, stripping these of their fluff, of their direct place within the world, of the achievements required to learn them, renders them problematic. When you have to mimic the deeds of the gods to learn the rune Uruz and then, finally have it, it becomes okay if you can paint it on your shield for a 1/day +20 bonus to overrun/bull rush - chances are, your DM knew what was coming and planned accordingly. If the fluff context is taken away, a ridiculously powerful rune, accessible for 1 feat, remains - and suddenly, we see the system stumble under the weight of one of its foundations being eroded.

I'm not going to analyze the word of power-subchapter, mainly because I consider the base-system introduced in Ultimate Magic just not well-designed. On the plus-side, the awesome incantations pioneered by Zombie Sky Press back in the day receive a significant array of new ones and these tend to be pretty awesome narrative devices.

Alas, the sloppy rules-language of the spells also partially (but thankfully, only partially!) extends to the following chapter, detailing bloodlines and mysteries. What about tentacle-attacks that do not specify as what they are treated? Check. Flawed target/reach-nomenclature...check. Sp, Su and Ex, in some cases, seem to have been determined at random, rendering some abilities utterly opaque. You get the idea. Now yes, the problems are much less pronounced than among the spells, but they are still here. As an additional note - the options among these class options do not feel as though they were balanced among themselves, with power-levels ranging from weak to VERY strong. Still, overall, these options feel relatively operable and easily fixed and the concepts provided are often utterly unique and cool. On a footnote, wizards, oddly, have their arcane discoveries/focused schools etc. in the tradition-section in the beginning, ripping the class options associated with the traditions in half. The problems outlined here also extend, alas and much to my chagrin, to the chapter on archetypes. That being said, the archetype's main flaw remains the focus on the spells/traditions - you can't build a house on sand and these, as compelling as they often are, sometimes do just that - which is a pity, for here, much like with aforementioned class options, the imaginative potential is rather impressive..

The following chapters, thankfully, at least for me, redeemed the book, at least partially - a concise and utterly awesome chapter on the creation of homunculi/leastlings and simple rules for undead crafting as well as nice clockwork templates for familiars et al. make provide significant fun, engagement and narrative potential. Speaking of which - portrayed in glorious artworks, a significant array of iconic, cool NPCs - those that are here, are great and flavorful, but I can't help but feel that one per tradition would have been nice to see.

Part II of my review is in the product discussion, post #319. See you there.


The Themes Are Strong With This One

5/5

Plenty of other people have explained what this book is all about, and the description above is entirely adequate. That's why I'd like to focus on the part of this book I truly appreciate: Its collection of themes.

Pretty much every spell in this book is tied to one or more themes and ideas - Clockwork Magic, Gambling Magic, etc. - and these lists offer ways to give a character many casting options with a similar thematic feel.

This may not be an 'optimal' way of playing, but I've always preferred to build characters for flavor instead of perfectly calculated power, and Deep Magic supports a lot of different flavors. This is a great addition for games where 3PP content is allowed, and heartily recommended.


5/5

I like this book a lot. If I had my guess as to what Ultimate Magic 2 would look like, this would be it. More than just a book of spells Deep Magic supports magic in a lot of different ways.

The first chapter essentially gives spell lists by theme, discussing each with some flavor and providing some spell books that can be found containing the spells. There's also some smackling of rules such as new wizard schools, Ioun Stones, and leylines. This does mean that you wind up having to read the theme before you can find some rules, for example; there isn't a list of arcane discoveries unless you find a sidebar somewhere. This organization may be jarring but it has been a breath of fresh air for me as I tend to pick my spells and options by theme as opposed to sort out and optimize.

The new spells vary in usefulness and brokeness but nothing truly past the Core Rulebook in power per spell level. The spells also support other Kobold Press classes such as the Elven Archer and White Necromancer, which is a pretty big plus if you have those and ignorable if you don't There are also little side bars that give a bit more fluff to the spell themes.

Chapter 3 is a huge pluss for me. Ink magic seems out of place as it looks like it should have been in Chapter 1, as it doesn't give new rules to the extent of the Glyphs and Runes. The Glyphs and Runes are winners for me by being means for even non-casters to get a touch of magic. Basically you take a feat or two and you get a static bonus and some scaling access to magical effects. Some of these are lifesavers and add quite a bit of fluff if you're running anything involving Norse gods or aboleth.

Chapter 4 introduces Incantations from Zombie Sky Press so if you don't have that its a fun bonus.

Chapter 5 and 6 give bloodlines, archetypes and mysteries. Nothing that special but they support a lot of themes introduced in chapter 1 and look like a lot of fun if you're working a theme.

Chapter 7 has some fluff and rules for undead crafting, familiar stuff and homuculi. I didn't look too deep into this chapter as I felt it didn't add too much that wasn't already achievable in the game. Plus it's a short chapter with just a few bits of crunch to look at.

Lastly there's some NPCs to throw at your players.

Overall I think this massive book is well worth the price. It brings life to a lot of themes that have been neglected and gives a lot to do with the flavor to match. Its more than just a list of options which I appreciate but will be difficult to sort out if you're just looking for those options. I'm giving it five stars despite that and some minor editing mistakes because as a whole this is almost mandatory for cool options for making magic.


Magical Expectations, but deep disappointment

2/5

When I first heard about this book, I was thrilled with the idea. "A whole book of spells and spell concepts? Sounds great! I have to get myself a copy!" So, I waited with eager anticipation for the local game store to get a copy in and promptly bought one.

And then... disappointment. The huge selection of spells in the book had some excellent ideas, but there were just so many with problems that I simply could never allow them in a campaign without substantial tweaking. The magical concepts were intriguing, but largely lacked the depth that they deserved and, like the spells, a lot of it simply felt as if it needed too much adaptation before they could be used.

Chapter 1 - New Magic Options - 3/5
Lots of interesting concepts, but a number of them get as little as half a page, most of which is just saying what spells later on in the book relate to the concept. A few get a bit more of a look in, with (mostly) well designed arcane schools and subdomains, but the feats therein look almost invariably too powerful.
Of the major sections, Vril seems poorly explained, Ley Lines interesting but powerful, Iouns uninspiring, Illumination and fool's summonings too strong for me to consider allowing in a campaign. Having not yet used Mythic things, I cannot make accurate judgement on the Living Saint Mythic Path. The True Curses are about the only thing that I feel as if I could use straight out of the book.

Chapter 2 - New Spells - 1/5
I'll start positive. The concepts are great.
Sadly, that's about it, and probably the only thing that stopped buying the book a waste of money for me.
A huge percentage of the spells simply need at least minor tweaking. Things like putting caps on the amount of damage spells can do, or durations of conditions.
Sometimes, however, spells are just masses of flaws. Spell levels are wildly inappropriate, of the wrong school completely or have nonsensical saving throws. Material and focus components are continually mixed up. The Evil descriptor is placed randomly throughout, regularly in places where it simply doesn't make sense, and then left out in places where, traditionally, it is quite necessary (This is something of a pet hate for me).
The very helpful guide to spell balancing in Ultimate Magic is completely ignored it seems; the spell Dizzying Bolt is almost exactly the example given as an unbalanced spell in that very book.
That said, not all of the spells are quite that horrendous. Some of them are actually good and wouldn't need any modifications, but they are a minority (or feel like they are).

Chapter 3 - Symbolic Magic - 2/5
Just as it says in the book: "A mastered rune is like a clerical domain, but it is much more specific and its powers can be harnessed by any class." It is, however, about the same level of power. With this, your fighter gets to cast Baleful Polymorph once per day at 9th level, and by the same level can make a glyph of warding 1/day that does 4d8 sonic damage. Neither of these abilities allow a save. With a single feat.
A class based around getting these would be a much, much better option, but even so, needs work.
As for Ink Magic, it probably should have been included in Chapter 1, since it's in the same vein. Spells are all silenced for some minor adaptations.

Chapter 4 - Words and Incantations
I would assume that the bit about incantations isn't in a core Pathfinder book, because I don't recall seeing that anywhere. May have missed it, of course. However, the book doesn't say where I should reference to learn more, and it doesn't provide much explanation on them itself, so I'd assume that this isn't the first place they appear. Consequently I cannot accurately judge this section.
I thought that most of the Wordcasting section was unnecessary. The system was clear enough to begin with, but for whatever reason they've tried to clarify it. Adds some nice new meta words though.

Chapter 5 - Bloodlines and Mysteries - 4/5
A pleasant change from the earlier chapters. All of the section seems comparatively well balanced, and I'd probably play some of them. Might need some tweaking (especially where the spells are concerned), but these would be minor things at worst (or I hope they would be)

Chapter 6 - Archetypes - 2/5
These range from appealing to questionable. Ofttimes, the flaws come from the uncertain nature of the concepts they're based on, such as the Geomancer, so I can hardly hold that against them. The rest of the time I would need a long, hard think before including them in a campaign. A rare few seem good enough to allow straight up, and one or two I might even play sooner rather than later.

Chapter 7 - Magical Constructs - 5/5
I wasn't expecting to find this section in the book, and ignored it until I started writing this. That was a mistake.
The section on the nature of Homunculi felt quite insightful, and gave what I had previously thought of as a block of stats or mindless servant some substantial character. The additional mechanical things felt well balanced and appropriate for once.
The alternate rules for undead creation likewise felt well balanced and quite usable. The Leastlings have the potential to be fun, potentially even at high levels. All in all, this chapter is excellent and easily the best part of the book.

Chapter 8 - Sample Spellcasters - 3/5
It's always handy to have a character and stat block to pull out in a tight spot. These are quite specific but in depth examples, which of course cuts both ways. More memorable to use, but you need to specifically plan to use them.
I would have expected more of them to display the various concepts and spells that the book is based around to give quick and easy play test material. Perhaps that's telling...

Other - 4/5
Book looks pretty. They quite rightly say you shouldn't judge a book like that, but it does add a certain something. There are some big names in there as well, and the Ed Greenwood story and Margaret Weis forward are something of a selling point.

End
The things I actually got the book for were, sad to say, a huge disappointment. The concepts are there, and are just waiting for a substantial rewrite or for someone to come along and do them better. It was the things I didn't get the book for that were best. That is, Chapter 7 and the appearance.
Deep Magic is likely to have a prominent place in my bookshelf. But purely in a decorative capacity or for squashing spiders with.
That said, I'd be interested in a reprint if things were better balanced.


Almost Perfect

4/5

I want sooooooo much to give this five stars. The beauty of this book is the introduction of very specific forms of magic; Ley, Ooze, Clockwork and many others. And I ADORE the idea of specializations outside of the normal spell schools. Mages and sorcerers who find a sirens call in some rare and esoteric group of spells, giving them power unknown to those more "mundane" casters.

You have so many new seeds of magical concepts that could fuel campaign after campaign of based on these untouched ideas. But the one problem (and in my opinion the ONLY problem in this beautiful tome) is that we have ideas a mile wide but only a few feet deep. I'd have almost preferred only half of these concepts to be presented but each of them presented more fully, with a longer spell-list and greater detail about how Ley Magic, for example, is different and how it can be best presented.

My hope is that this will lead to some dedicated smaller works from Kobold, where we are given even more specifity about these intriguing concepts. I know I'll be purchasing quite a few of them.


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Liberty's Edge

Ha!!! That video is ... AWESOME!!!!!

I wonder how much we had to pay Peter Jackson to star in that video though?


Marc Radle wrote:
I wonder how much we had to pay Peter Jackson to star in that video though?

Pretty sure that was covered in the Kickstarter fees. ;)


Got home from work and found the email with my code.

Download, and read through lightly. I haven't even read the spells yet and this is well worth the price. The Saint Mythic Path was amazing, the Vril stuff was great - loved the archetypes. The Demon Binder has god wonderful flavor - and while it won't ever see play from a PC in my games, it wouldn't take too much to get the reverse a "Divine caller" who gets help from upper planar creatures.

Going to really dig into the spells this weekend.

Fantastic stuff.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I got my copy of this from the Kickstarter in the mail yesterday, and I figure I should give my thoughts.

First off, when looking at the book, it's beautiful. Well designed for the most part, but the background on the pages...on the right-hand page, every single page, is a black speck that I keep trying to brush off. On every. Single. Page. Slowly driving me mad. Anyway, art and format is very nice, and I'm happy with that.

What I'm not happy with, so far, is the content. Maybe I'm finicky, maybe I'm weird...but I'm finding lots of typos, here and there. Regardless, the one that really bugged me was Incantations. It mentions them, shows feats, shows a fair amount of information on different powerful types...yet I can't find the information on what, exactly, secondary performers have to do. It doesn't mention who makes the skill checks. There's a host of information I expected to be there, yet...wasn't.

I could go on, but...the main issue I have is that about 1 in 10 spells I look at seems under-developed. They don't mention bonus type, contradict their targeting/range in the text, or such.

In any case, I'm reserving final judgement until I've finished going through the book, but thus far, the contents have not lived up to my expectations.

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Cydeth wrote:

I got my copy of this from the Kickstarter in the mail yesterday, and I figure I should give my thoughts.

First off, when looking at the book, it's beautiful. Well designed for the most part, but the background on the pages...on the right-hand page, every single page, is a black speck that I keep trying to brush off. On every. Single. Page. Slowly driving me mad. Anyway, art and format is very nice, and I'm happy with that.

What I'm not happy with, so far, is the content. Maybe I'm finicky, maybe I'm weird...but I'm finding lots of typos, here and there. Regardless, the one that really bugged me was Incantations. It mentions them, shows feats, shows a fair amount of information on different powerful types...yet I can't find the information on what, exactly, secondary performers have to do. It doesn't mention who makes the skill checks. There's a host of information I expected to be there, yet...wasn't.

I could go on, but...the main issue I have is that about 1 in 10 spells I look at seems under-developed. They don't mention bonus type, contradict their targeting/range in the text, or such.

In any case, I'm reserving final judgement until I've finished going through the book, but thus far, the contents have not lived up to my expectations.

I really wish you were alone in your complaints, but I agree on almost every single one. Including those irritating specks and spots on the page. I'd love to get a Paizo-style "Lite" PDF option with just white for the page backgrounds.


My post got eaten:(

My copy arrived today, which is impressive. I live in Victoria, British Columbia and any package from the US, including my monthly Paizo order, takes a minimum of 4 weeks to arrive. Keep in mind that the Paizo warehouse is no more than 150 miles from my home. Thanks be to the Kobolds, fulfillment house, USPS, and Canada Post.

The book itself is impressively solid, with a nice layout and absolutely stuffed with gorgeous artwork. I personally prefer the look and feel of the matte pages vs glossy ones. Bravo! If I have any complaints at first blush they are that there is no index and no cloth bookmark (my copies of the Midgard CS and Midgard Tales have a cloth bookmark each; I love the things). I can't wait to dig in and unearth this books treasures!

Now to get the chaos beasts to bed...


I'm seeing a number of organizational problems, with tables improperly referenced or not referenced at all, and sections out of the order that the text implies they're in.

Example:

Page 309: "Example utterances and new Effect Words follow."

The new Effect Words are on page 305.


Cydeth wrote:
Regardless, the one that really bugged me was Incantations. It mentions them, shows feats, shows a fair amount of information on different powerful types...yet I can't find the information on what, exactly, secondary performers have to do. It doesn't mention who makes the skill checks. There's a host of information I expected to be there, yet...wasn't.

The Instructor section is revised in the PDF, just to let you know.

I thought I had it in there, but I'm not seeing this-- Incantations require 1 skill check every 10 minutes per effective level unless the incantation is designed to use 1 skill check every hour per effective level. The Primary Performer may make the checks or the Secondary performers may make checks, but one cannot use the Aid Another action in these skill checks; this omission is straight-up my fault, as I've completely internalized incantations.

Although I'll note that I haven't included that information for any other incantation we've provided in Kobold Press products, and they're in Tales of the Old Margreve, Streets of Zobeck, Legends of Zobeck, Advanced Races:Darakhul, the Midgard Campaign Setting, Journeys to the West, and I think Pirates of the Western Seas. I know there's one in a KQ issue, and one in Bite Me:Wereblooded. Honestly, at this point, with at least 20 under my belt, I don't think there's anyone who's written more incantations for Pathfinder than I have, but I could be mistaken.

Still, it probably ought to be in there. I think. Maybe. I'm kind of torn on it, but the fact that you're confused on them makes me think that it probably ought to be. I apologize for the mistake. You can read more on incantations here or the Zombie Sky Press document, here. (Which I prefer as updated for Pathfinder)

-Ben.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

terraleon wrote:
Cydeth wrote:
Regardless, the one that really bugged me was Incantations. It mentions them, shows feats, shows a fair amount of information on different powerful types...yet I can't find the information on what, exactly, secondary performers have to do. It doesn't mention who makes the skill checks. There's a host of information I expected to be there, yet...wasn't.

The Instructor section is revised in the PDF, just to let you know.

I thought I had it in there, but I'm not seeing this-- Incantations require 1 skill check every 10 minutes per effective level unless the incantation is designed to use 1 skill check every hour per effective level. The Primary Performer may make the checks or the Secondary performers may make checks, but one cannot use the Aid Another action in these skill checks; this omission is straight-up my fault, as I've completely internalized incantations.

Although I'll note that I haven't included that information in any other incantation we've provided in Kobold Press products, and they're in Tales of the Old Margreve, Streets of Zobeck, Legends of Zobeck, Advanced Races:Darakhul, the Midgard Campaign Setting, Journeys to the West, and I think Pirates of the Western Seas. I know there's one in a KQ issue, and one in Bite Me:Wereblooded. Honestly, at this point, with at least 20 under my belt, I don't think there's anyone who's written more incantations for Pathfinder than I have, but I could be mistaken.

Still, it probably ought to be in there. I think. Maybe. I'm kind of torn on it, but the fact that you're confused on them makes me think that it probably ought to be. I apologize for the mistake. You can read more on incantations here or the Zombie Sky Press document, here. (Which I prefer as updated for Pathfinder)

-Ben.

Unfortunately, because I was only a Magister, I got the PDF of the add-on goals, and the hardback, but didn't get the PDF of the book...and since I'm not terribly thrilled thus far with editing and such, adding another $25 for the PDF likely isn't going to happen for me.

Which is a shame, since I love the concept of incantations. I have been working on my own versions for my home game as well, and when I find information on how something is supposed to work missing...it frustrates me. A lot.

But thanks for the information. It does help.


Cydeth wrote:
...when I find information on how something is supposed to work missing...it frustrates me. A lot.

The secondary casters making checks but not being able to Aid Another is tough. The "1 check per 10 minutes per effective level" bit is pretty easy to discern, though, looking at the incantation blocks with the level and the casting time being a 10 minute multiple of the level...and if you've been using them, I'd think you'd know they work-- or am I misunderstanding you?

I mean, it's an elemental aspect of incantations...similar to how we don't say that material components are consumed in spellcasting, because, well, that's been said elsewhere and if you're playing a spellcaster, it's presumed you would know that part of the dance.

Really, the awesome part of the incantation section (in my opinion) is the feats section. Prior to those feats, if your spellcaster wanted to make incantations, you basically went to your GM and said, "I want to make an incantation," and he would have to decide what you could make, what you were allowed to do, the cost, and how long research would take. Now, that's clarified. Additionally, things like, "Why does the bad guy require a sacrifice?" can be answered with mechanical impact. Or, "Why did killing the bad guy cause this place to crash to the ground?" The answer becomes, "Because he created and cast the incantation with a lifelinked modifier."

-Ben.


The amount of options presented looks amazing, still just skimmed it quickly and just started the read through.

Noticed two spells on Page 17 that have what looks like a source indicator after it of OP, which wasn't listed in the main notes.

Specifically they are under The Empyrean Opus. Spells are crown of empyreal gloryOP*, and cherub’s burning bladeOP*,

What's the OP for?

Paizo Employee Contributor

Sethvir wrote:

The amount of options presented looks amazing, still just skimmed it quickly and just started the read through.

Noticed two spells on Page 17 that have what looks like a source indicator after it of OP, which wasn't listed in the main notes.

Specifically they are under The Empyrean Opus. Spells are crown of empyreal gloryOP*, and cherub’s burning bladeOP*,

What's the OP for?

That's an indication that those spells are from an oppositional school. In this case, evocation. :)


Got it. Thanks for the clarification. Don't know that I remember seeing that delineated before.


I'm slowly going through the book and I have to say it's very very good. However, I did notice something that I think is odd. There might be a perfectly good reason for it and I'm just not thinking of it, but it makes me curious.

The Empyrean Opus has a list of spells it contains. Some of these spells, guardian deva for example, aren't on the spell list of anyone who would prepare a spell from a spellbook. I mean only a wizard or magus uses a spellbook. Why would a spell not on a wizard/magus spell list ever be in a spellbook?

Is the only reason it's there so someone who prepares the spell from the book can get the preparation bonus? I guess that makes sense, it just seems odd to me.

Paizo Employee Contributor

Kcinlive wrote:

I'm slowly going through the book and I have to say it's very very good. However, I did notice something that I think is odd. There might be a perfectly good reason for it and I'm just not thinking of it, but it makes me curious.

The Empyrean Opus has a list of spells it contains. Some of these spells, guardian deva for example, aren't on the spell list of anyone who would prepare a spell from a spellbook. I mean only a wizard or magus uses a spellbook. Why would a spell not on a wizard/magus spell list ever be in a spellbook?

Is the only reason it's there so someone who prepares the spell from the book can get the preparation bonus? I guess that makes sense, it just seems odd to me.

Thanks for the comment and question, Kcinlive! Yes, I think there was some thought in the direction of just allowing for the preparation bonus. In hindsight, though, I think we're going to want to consider placing those applicable spells on the sorcerer/wizard list, at least. It makes a lot of sense to me.

Liberty's Edge

Really thrilled that so many people are enjoying this book! It was truly a MASSIVE undertaking, so it's extremely rewarding to hear so much positive feedback!

Because Deep Magic is such a huge book and it was such a massive undertaking, a few typos and errors were bound to slip in there, despite the absolutely amazing and diligent work of the editors and developers. Heck, even books from Paizo and Wizards sometimes have 'em :)

Please know that correcting these little issues is very important to everyone involved. We are extremely proud of Deep Magic and want it to be as close to perfect as humanly (or koboldly) possible!


Kcinlive wrote:

I mean only a wizard or magus uses a spellbook. Why would a spell not on a wizard/magus spell list ever be in a spellbook?

Is the only reason it's there so someone who prepares the spell from the book can get the preparation bonus? I guess that makes sense, it just seems odd to me.

Other classes can (ostensibly) perform magical research like wizards. That research has to be put into writing to be transmitted from one caster to another (presuming it's going to be taught after the creator and any students have died). A spellbook like that provides the character a means to learn the new magic and preserves the research.

If you just let casters know all spells without needing to learn them from a source, then you don't need the books. Personally, I do require casters to learn spells beyond their core list, and spellbooks like this provide the method for them to do so.

-Ben.


terraleon wrote:
Kcinlive wrote:

I mean only a wizard or magus uses a spellbook. Why would a spell not on a wizard/magus spell list ever be in a spellbook?

Is the only reason it's there so someone who prepares the spell from the book can get the preparation bonus? I guess that makes sense, it just seems odd to me.

Other classes can (ostensibly) perform magical research like wizards. That research has to be put into writing to be transmitted from one caster to another (presuming it's going to be taught after the creator and any students have died). A spellbook like that provides the character a means to learn the new magic and preserves the research.

If you just let casters know all spells without needing to learn them from a source, then you don't need the books. Personally, I do require casters to learn spells beyond their core list, and spellbooks like this provide the method for them to do so.

-Ben.

That's the way I handle it in my own campaigns. The spells from the core book(s) for divine casters, for example, are fair game and accessible to any character. However, when new spells (from expansions in the game, or third party books like Deep Magic) are released, the rule is that they are not simply automatically available. A character wishing to add one or more of them to their available spells must do the research as the rules state, or find something that's already done the work for them.

Consider the Empyrean Opus not so much as a standard "spellbook" as the rules define, but a holy book that happens to have spells in it, including the necessary mysteries and insights to allow divine casters to add these new spells to their repertoire.

Liberty's Edge

That actually fits quite well with the new theurge class from Kobold Press's New Paths Compendium.

The theurge casts both arcane and divine spells. He has both a spellbook AND a prayerbook


Hi

Got the pdf and think book is at my post office as was not in too collect.

I have not had much chance to go through at moment, but there is one HUGE editing mistake that I am afraid has me really worried about reading rest for these sort of issues.

There are 7th LEVEL SUMMONER SPELLS!!!! Huh!!?? That is a huge error and I am very surprised and disappointed that such a big mistake was let through. I appreciate mistakes may happen with such a huge book, but this is surely should not happen. In the list of spells under each class it goes upto 7th level and this is put as summoner 7 is the spell description.

Similar when the first printing of class book you did that did not have white necromancer undead companion table in.

My book is going to have this in now and when all the corrections are sorted, all the second printings presumably will not. I appreciate my pdf will be updated but what about those people who do not have the pdf and just the book?

BTW loved the demon binder archetype. As you can see I jumped to all the summoner stuff first.


I have a question; For those who preordered on paizo, say last week, do they get Just the book or the pdf and book?

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

Those who preordered the print book at Paizo should be getting the PDF included with their order.

If that's not happening, Paizo customer service can certainly fix it!


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Wolfgang Baur wrote:

Thank you, Liz!

The backer copies seem to have hit in many places in the US. Still hoping to hear from a Canadian or European backer, but that might not be until next week.

Book arrived in germany :-).


Wolfgang Baur wrote:

Those who preordered the print book at Paizo should be getting the PDF included with their order.

If that's not happening, Paizo customer service can certainly fix it!

Well I think I preorderd before getting the pdf seperately was an option so I sent customer service an email.

Paizo Employee Contributor

Johncolossus wrote:

Hi

There are 7th LEVEL SUMMONER SPELLS!!!! Huh!!?? That is a huge error and I am very surprised and disappointed that such a big mistake was let through. I appreciate mistakes may happen with such a huge book, but this is surely should not happen. In the list of spells under each class it goes upto 7th level and this is put as summoner 7 is the spell description.

Johncolossus, I'd like to just take a moment to apologize for this error. It's entirely on me -- somehow, and I can't exactly explain what happened, but two spells ended up listed as 7th-level summoner spells and two ended up listed as 7th-level bard spells. They should have been listed as 6th-level spells, and somehow I completely missed that before we went to press. I'm very sorry about this.

I'm planning to include the necessary changes to make these spells 6th level in a list I'll send the graphic designer tonight. We will have the PDF updated as soon as humanly (koboldly?) possible.

In the meantime, please treat these incorrectly listed 7th-level spells as 6th-level spells. And thank you for pointing this out so we can get it fixed right away.


I think I found another thing. The Speak with Ancestors spell is missing from the druid/shaman list (is it druid/shaman, or shaman only, by the way? The description seems to say "shaman only").

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

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Bran Unden wrote:
Book arrived in germany :-).

WOOOOT! Es freut mich sehr, das dieses Buch schon in Deutschland geraten ist. Ein bisschen Koboldzauberei, das es so schnell ging.

Ok, that's all I got.

Liberty's Edge

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Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul!


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Marc Radle wrote:
Please know that correcting these little issues is very important to everyone involved. We are extremely proud of Deep Magic and want it to be as close to perfect as humanly (or koboldly) possible!

It's a terrific book, but I really, really wish that you'd released the PDF first, let the customer hivemind pick it apart, and then fixed it up and done the print edition a month or two from now...


Wolfgang Baur wrote:


Those who preordered the print book at Paizo should be getting the PDF included with their order.

If that's not happening, Paizo customer service can certainly fix it!

Thanks. I had wondered if I was going to have to order the PDF separately from my print copy.

Webstore Gninja Minion

Malwing wrote:
Wolfgang Baur wrote:

Those who preordered the print book at Paizo should be getting the PDF included with their order.

If that's not happening, Paizo customer service can certainly fix it!

Well I think I preorderd before getting the pdf seperately was an option so I sent customer service an email.

I'll be getting those PDFs added to accounts shortly. :)

Edit: And done. Any problems, let customer service know!

Paizo Employee Contributor

Bardess wrote:
I think I found another thing. The Speak with Ancestors spell is missing from the druid/shaman list (is it druid/shaman, or shaman only, by the way? The description seems to say "shaman only").

It is druid/shaman. Thank you, Bardess. :)

Dark Archive

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Evil Midnight Lurker wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Please know that correcting these little issues is very important to everyone involved. We are extremely proud of Deep Magic and want it to be as close to perfect as humanly (or koboldly) possible!
It's a terrific book, but I really, really wish that you'd released the PDF first, let the customer hivemind pick it apart, and then fixed it up and done the print edition a month or two from now...

This would have fixed SO many little issues. Please, please do this in the future for any big hardbacks like this. And I'd hope that would go for every Kickstarter-using publisher out there. A few hundred pairs of eyes belonging to enthusiastic fans will certainly be more likely to catch what half a dozen don't.

No matter how pretty this hardback has turned out, it's somewhat disappointing. Each issue or typo is, absolutely, fairly minor in and of itself, but still, it's leaving me with real regrets about upping my pledge from just pdfs to the hardback.


I'm only halfway through and one thing I have to say is that much of the material is almost too flavorful. I was hoping that I could just st throw this book at players and let them make stuff but most of it feels like magic that you find, magic the GM has to plan into a campaign. For a good chunk of it I feel the need to hide the book until the players find a musty tome in a haunted house or a crazy hermit who draws magic on cave walls.


OK I just noticed Margaret Weis doing the intro, what the hell guys?! Is it my birthday or something? I have three Weis/Hickman series within arms reach right now. I'm a huge fan.

Now all I can think of is when we can finally get that Pathfinder Sovereign Stone book.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Evil Midnight Lurker wrote:
It's a terrific book, but I really, really wish that you'd released the PDF first, let the customer hivemind pick it apart, and then fixed it up and done the print edition a month or two from now...

That's a great point for publishers moving forward. While I'm sure that I'll love this book when it arrives, there's a certain something about say... Dreamscarred's Ultimate Psionics book. There, we were given the PDF first and I nit-picked it. Jeremy corrected a bunch of stuff the community found and I'll tell you... anything that I find wrong once my print volume shows up is MY FAULT, because I didn't notice it. I can't - and won't - blame anyone but myself.

Editing is hard, but this sort of product where (almost) every order is a pre-order, there's nothing inherently wrong with releasing the electronic copy first and perfecting the product after hundreds of eyes are on it, then make your one-shot print-run.

Not to poop on the Kobold's parade... again, I'm sure I'll love this book. This is all just food for thought for them, and other publishers in the biz.

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Marc/Amanada/Wolfgang, I'm going to just start up a Possible Issues and Typos thread for this product down in Compatible Products from Other Publishers for listing the various little things we've found. Help keep this thread clear for discussing the actual product as a whole.

Edit: And there it is. Let's keep things here just for book discussion, folks.

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

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Thanks, Kvantum! That feedback will be great for both the Hero Labs crew and for PDF updates. So far, the list is short, but I'm sure we'll find things.

Oh, and speaking of the spell designs: The backers who created almost 60 of the Deep Magic spells are acknowledged in the latest Kickstarter update. Nice work, folks.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Wolfgang Baur wrote:
Bran Unden wrote:
Book arrived in germany :-).

WOOOOT! Es freut mich sehr, das dieses Buch schon in Deutschland geraten ist. Ein bisschen Koboldzauberei, das es so schnell ging.

Ok, that's all I got.

Hopefully mine will arrive soon, too (without being intercepted by customs). The pdf is very nice, so far, thanks for sending it out earlier.

What happened to this?

50k stretch goal wrote:

New archetypes chapter!

All spellcasting archetpyes from the Player's Guide to Midgard included and added to the Hero Lab file.

And this?

And when will you announce Deep Combat?

Dark Archive

And I got my copy. Very nice.


Got my copy yesterday. It's very nice.

This is kind of a strange compliment... but I really like the paper it was printed on. I'm not sure what's to nice about it exactly. It has a very nice texture and thickness. Maybe because it's also not glossy? There's a lot to like/love about this book. That just stood out because I wasn't expecting it. Like I said a strange compliment.

I do wish there were more Celestial Glyphs though. I was hoping for a full set similar to the Aboleth Glyphs and Runes.

Liberty's Edge

Just got my mitts on the pdf and im waiting for the hardcover! beautiful book, the art is drop dead gorgeous! The kobold strikes again!

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

Jadeite wrote:

What happened to this?

50k stretch goal wrote:

New archetypes chapter!

All spellcasting archetpyes from the Player's Guide to Midgard included and added to the Hero Lab file.

And this?

And when will you announce Deep Combat?

The Archetypes are Chapter 6. We did cut a few of the not-so-great ones, because, well, they were not so-great. The Hero Lab file is due out in late May.

The Resonance Generator crossover PDF is written and with Dreamscarred Press right now.

Deep Combat... Er, ah. We're still working on Deep Magic rewards beyond the core book, and then we'll see. It's not a bad idea, but it's not currently scheduled.

Liberty's Edge

so quick rules question does angelic seal qualify for the permanency spell and can it be attached to a hallow spell?

My cleric needs to know for his temple he is building...


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Kcinlive wrote:
I do wish there were more Celestial Glyphs though. I was hoping for a full set similar to the Aboleth Glyphs and Runes.

Like that one? :D Good. I spun it up as a nod that the glyphs didn't need to be limited to Aboleth or Runic glyphs, and I thought it came out well. There wasn't room to do a whole suite of them, though, I asked.

-Ben.


Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Awesome work!


Terokai wrote:

so quick rules question does angelic seal qualify for the permanency spell and can it be attached to a hallow spell?

My cleric needs to know for his temple he is building...

I hadn't thought of those points when writing the spell. Good catch. (And where were you to ask that question when I needed you?)

I don't know that I'd put it on the list of spells that work with permanency, but I think it's an excellent fit to use in conjunction with hallow.

Liberty's Edge

excellent... thanks for the reply!

and i am always around to spot this kind of stuff if some one shows it to me :)


I'll post my review here also:

If Wolfgang is involved in the product you can trust that it is going to be top quality. Deep Magic observes this rule in spades. The quality and quantity of content this book offers is sure to sate even the most demanding gamer (e.g., me). Everything from the gaming content to the layout to the artwork to the organization is of the highest quality. From new magic options such as Battle Magic, Blood Magic, Ley Line Magic and Gambling Magic to 200 pages of new spells to new spell-casting archetypes to magical constructs... Deep Magic delivers again and again and again. This book could literally have been a two or three separate books. Deep Magic is a masterpiece that will certainly influence my gaming sessions for years to come.


terraleon wrote:


Still, it probably ought to be in there. I think. Maybe. I'm kind of torn on it, but the fact that you're confused on them makes me think that it probably ought to be. I apologize for the mistake. You can read more on incantations here or the Zombie Sky Press document, here. (Which I prefer as updated for Pathfinder)

-Ben.

I just wanted to chime in, in case it helps with decisions in future.. I have loved seeing Incantations in other Kobold Press/Open Design products... and been unhappy that there were not clearer directions to help newcomers find the basic rules. *I* know they're from Unearthed Arcana and in the SRD... but a new reader isn't guaranteed to. So, I'd prefer to see an explicit statement "you can find the basic rules...", especially in a magic-focused book like Deep Magic. It is more questionable to include in a less focused book, I think.

Otherwise, very happy with my copy. Though I also agree that involving the backers in proof-reading before committing to print might be a good plan. The issue there, I suspect, is making sure that doesn't throw off the delivery schedule. There are probably as many folks who would push for early delivery regardless of errors as there are folks who would advocate later with more proof-reading.

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