Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Gods (PFRPG) Hardcover

Will there be anything on paladin codes? What about for the Emperyal Lords?

The paladin codes for deities that can have paladins as worshipers appear in the respective "Faiths of" series in the Pathfinder Companion line.

The emperyal lords though, man I would love that but I think that's a case of their just being way too many lords and space in the book already at a bit of a premium. I could see a sort of general code for all of the lords as a whole, stressing the need to follow the tenants of whomever the paladin follows. That may be too vague for people though.

Frerezar wrote:

Just want to add that I would love to see an equivalent of the Celestial Obedience feat for greater gods. Adding divine power to characters who wouldn´t normally have them is a great way to make it feel unique.

Like, "Deific Obedience"?

The only problem I see with that is that if every major god as one unique, specific ritual that worshipers are supposed to undertake, it'll make the god's faith seem oversimplified and homogenized. It works for the Empyreal lords and Demon lords, because they are demigods with small cults based around them.

But Lamashtu has an obedience.

If an ascended Demon Lord retains an obedience, why shouldn't Sarenrae, an ascended Empyreal Lord?

I think I recall hearing that the gods (at least the core 20) would all receive something equivalent to obediences.

Nearly 300 deities....

Isn't that a bit too much?

A lot of those will probably just be a line with their name, alignment, portfolio, and domains.

A line of information is still more then we had for a lot of those 300 deities then we had.

A good chunk of those will probably be already mentioned demon and empyreal lords

Yeah, but I am sure if you took all the demon lords, empyreal lords, and all the other gods and demigods mention it would still add to no more then 150 or so. Besides it would be nice to have all that information in one book.

I wonder how they are defining "gods" for this book ?

For example will the Eldest be included ?

Nearly 300 deities....

Isn't that a bit too much?

Well, I imagine most won't get much more than a table, and I'm tempted to think they may be considering demigods and demigod-level outsiders capable of granting spells as well. If so, that would definitely expand the number of already existing 'deities' significantly. Not that I wouldn't be pleasantly surprised if we got more than a table!

For example...

Book of the Damned, Volume 1 - Princes of Darkness lists one deity (Asmodeus), eight archdevils, four whore queens, twenty-eight infernal dukes, and twelve Malebranche, for a total of fifty-three entities, all of whom are capable of granting spells.

Book of the Damned, Volume 2 - Lords of Chaos lists four deities (Camazotz, Droskar, Gyronna, and Lamashtu), thirty-one demon lords, ten nascent demon lords, and the four barghest hero gods, for a total of forty-nine entities, all of whom are capable of granting spells.

Book of the Damned, Volume 3 - Horsemen of the Apocalypse lists two gods (Urgathoa and Zyphus), the four horsemen, thirty harbingers, and one demigod (Ahriman), for a total of thirty-seven entities, all of whom are capable of granting spells.

Chronicle of the Righteous lists thirteen agathion empyreal lords, thirteen angel empyreal lords, fourteen archon empyreal lords, and fourteen azata empyreal lords, for a total of fifty-four entities, all of whom are capable of granting spells.

The Bestiary lists fourteen archon empyreal lords (only one of which was listed in Chronicle of the Righteous), fourteen azata empyreal lords (again, only one of which was listed in Chronicle of the Righteous, though given that it lists Tsukuyomi, Prince of the Moon as one, and there was later a Tsukiyo, Prince of the Moon listed as a full deity for the Dragon Empires, he may have been transferred?), fourteen demon lords (all of which except for Demogorgon were listed in Lords of Chaos, though I believe that was likely a purposeful exclusion). If we go by the assumption that Tsukuyomi has become Tsukiyo and exclude Demogorgon, that's twenty-five more entities who are capable of granting spells.

Bestiary 2 lists six agathion leaders noted to be empyreal lords (only one of which is listed in Chronicle of the Righteous), mentions the existence of primal inevitables who are likely on the same power level, mentions the protean lords who are specifically noted to be on the same power level as demon lords and empyreal lords, and mentions the existence of qlippoth lords. Not sure about the planet-draining Nightshades which may or may not exist. Since many of these are not named, that would only be five more entities capable of granting spells, but with the possibility of many more.

Bestiary 3 lists thirteen asura ranas, lists Ahriman (listed in Horsemen of the Apocalypse), mentions the existence of kami lords specifically noted to often be on par with demigods or greater entities, lists seven kyton demagogues, ten oni daimyo, and fourteen rakshasa immortals. I believe James Jacobs has said these are also demigod-level outsiders, though I could be mistaken; if I am not, that is fourty-four more entities capable of granting spells with the likelihood of more.

Bestiary 4 lists some demon lords and empyreal lords, but nothing new, and thirteen psychopomp ushers. Another thirteen.

The Inner Sea World Guide, of course, mentions the twenty core deities (Asmodeus, Lamashtu, and Urgathoa reappearing in the Books of the Damned), thirteen lesser deities (Droskar, Gyronna, and Zyphus also reappearing in the Books of the Damned), lists the archdevils, demon lords, and horsemen (all listed in the Books of the Damned), and going on to list nine of the eldest, four elemental lords, and six empyreal lords (all listed in Chronicle of the Righteous), lists Lissala, three of the Great Old Ones, and Ydersius as forgotten deities, that's another forty-five not previously listed. Probably should have started here, but too much of a pain to redo things at this point!

Dragon Empires Gazetteer lists twenty deities, though six of them (Abadar, Desna, Irori, Lamashtu, Pharasma, and Shelyn) are already listed in the Inner Sea World Guide, leaving fourteen more.

Faiths of Purity mentions the dwarven gods, of which there are ten (Torag and Droskar, however, have already been mentioned), the elven gods, of which there are three, Nivi Rhombodazzle as the sole particularly gnome deity, and Chaldira Zuzaristan as the sole particularly halfling deity. Thirteen more.

Faiths of Corruption goes into more detail on the Great Old Ones and Outer Gods, listing a total of nine of them, three already listed in Inner Sea World Guide. Six more.

Faiths of Balance brings in Alseta, Brigh, and Naderi, for three more.

I know there are probably more than this, especially if you count the dead deities (which I didn't), and I know the protean lords got listed somewhere, but it's already well over three hundred as is, and I'm not even touching the huge number of Vudra deities. Of course, if I'm wrong about outsider level deities counting, lot fewer, so we'll have to wait and see...

Abyssal Lord wrote:

Nearly 300 deities....

Isn't that a bit too much?

Well, I imagine most won't get much more than a table, and I'm tempted to think they may be considering demigods and demigod-level outsiders capable of granting spells as well. If so, that would definitely expand the number of already existing 'deities' significantly. Not that I wouldn't be pleasantly surprised if we got more than a table!

For example...

Book of the Damned, Volume 1 - Princes of Darkness lists one deity (Asmodeus), eight archdevils, four whore queens, twenty-eight infernal dukes, and twelve Malebranche, for a total of fifty-three entities, all of whom are capable of granting spells.

Book of the Damned, Volume 2 - Lords of Chaos lists four deities (Camazotz, Droskar, Gyronna, and Lamashtu), thirty-one demon lords, ten nascent demon lords, and the four barghest hero gods, for a total of forty-nine entities, all of whom are capable of granting spells.

Book of the Damned, Volume 3 - Horsemen of the Apocalypse lists two gods (Urgathoa and Zyphus), the four horsemen, thirty harbingers, and one demigod (Ahriman), for a total of thirty-seven entities, all of whom are capable of granting spells.

Chronicle of the Righteous lists thirteen agathion empyreal lords, thirteen angel empyreal lords, fourteen archon empyreal lords, and fourteen azata empyreal lords, for a total of fifty-four entities, all of whom are capable of granting spells.

The Bestiary lists fourteen archon empyreal lords (only one of which was listed in Chronicle of the Righteous), fourteen azata empyreal lords (again, only one of which was listed in Chronicle of the Righteous, though given that it lists Tsukuyomi, Prince of the Moon as one, and there was later a Tsukiyo, Prince of the Moon listed as a full deity for the Dragon Empires, he may have been transferred?), fourteen demon lords (all of which except for Demogorgon were listed in Lords of Chaos, though I believe that was likely a purposeful exclusion). If we go by the...

The Tien-Xia deities will not be mentioned.

Yeah anything from deities who don't have worshippers in the inner sea region (vudrani and tian only deities excluded) shouldn't get anything expectant from this.

Can't wait to see it! :)

300 deities in the Inner Sea region alone.
Do Golarion have that many mortals to sustain all these gods?

As someone else have pointed out, with all the demon lords, archdevils and archdaemons cavorting through Golarion, evil gods are a bit redundant.

One thing that fourth edition D&D did right was cleaning house on the redundant deities.

Golarion gods don't need mortals to sustain them.

If you don't like many gods, the only ones you need to remember are the ones currently in use in your game, but some of us like a bit of variety.

Hopefully we will get more good subtype arcane spells and more positive energy based necromancy spells.

One thing that fourth edition D&D did right was cleaning house on the redundant deities.

I have to disagree. The whole-sale slaughter and killing off of deities and pantheons is one of the things that made me turn away from 4E, especially where the Forgotten Realms is concerned (my favorite deity was among the dead). That, and the 100+ years timeline jump, killing of iconic NPCs, and vast amounts of destruction via the Spellplague... it was a bit much.

Considering that there are thousands of deities that have been and continued to be worshiped in our own real world history, I don't really blink an eye at 300-ish. As mentioned above, the Golarion deities aren't sustained on mortal worship. If you don't like some of them, don't use them, maybe stick to the core 20? But others may like the variety, like myself. :)

One thing I would like to see expanded upon would be the interaction and relationships between the deities. We have Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon, but that's about it of the core 20. I also kind of hope to see an updated Spherewalker, or something along the lines of a Desnan priest.

Looking forward to this book!

Abyssal Lord wrote:

One thing that fourth edition D&D did right was cleaning house on the redundant deities.

I have to disagree. The whole-sale slaughter and killing off of deities and pantheons is one of the things that made me turn away from 4E, especially where the Forgotten Realms is concerned (my favorite deity was among the dead). That, and the 100+ years timeline jump, killing of iconic NPCs, and vast amounts of destruction via the Spellplague... it was a bit much.

Considering that there are thousands of deities that have been and continued to be worshiped in our own real world history, I don't really blink an eye at 300-ish. As mentioned above, the Golarion deities aren't sustained on mortal worship. If you don't like some of them, don't use them, maybe stick to the core 20? But others may like the variety, like myself. :)

One thing I would like to see expanded upon would be the interaction and relationships between the deities. We have Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon, but that's about it of the core 20. I also kind of hope to see an updated Spherewalker, or something along the lines of a Desnan priest.

Looking forward to this book!

Thirded this. I liked the wide variety of religions and gods. Felt more real and I liked the options and choices.

There is a lot of material here. I am looking forward to the PRCS, I am a fan.

So I am wondering will Calistria's 'vengence demons' be statted up?

Yes. :)

Abyssal Lord wrote:

One thing that fourth edition D&D did right was cleaning house on the redundant deities.

I have to disagree. The whole-sale slaughter and killing off of deities and pantheons is one of the things that made me turn away from 4E, especially where the Forgotten Realms is concerned (my favorite deity was among the dead). That, and the 100+ years timeline jump, killing of iconic NPCs, and vast amounts of destruction via the Spellplague... it was a bit much.

Well, at least they cleaned house on the Drow Pantheon. It was getting ridiculous.

As for the Forgotten Realms, I don't mind seeing all those Mary Sue types biting the dust, but too bad two of the worst: woe-is-me Drizzt and all-the-female-lust-for-him-despite-his-old-age Elminster is still around...:-(

Well, at least they cleaned house on the Drow Pantheon. It was getting ridiculous.

Then again, on Golarion, they worshipped various demon lords. And I am surprised that Pathfinder didn't have an equivalent of Lolth other than Mazmezz.

As for the Forgotten Realms, I don't mind seeing all those Mary Sue types biting the dust, but too bad two of the worst: woe-is-me Drizzt and all-the-female-lust-for-him-despite-his-old-age Elminster is still around...:-(

If I recall correctly they reduced his swagger though. I think he is an old man living his in his tower now.

Abyssal Lord wrote:

Well, at least they cleaned house on the Drow Pantheon. It was getting ridiculous.

Then again, on Golarion, they worshipped various demon lords. And I am surprised that Pathfinder didn't have an equivalent of Lolth other than Mazmezz.

As for the Forgotten Realms, I don't mind seeing all those Mary Sue types biting the dust, but too bad two of the worst: woe-is-me Drizzt and all-the-female-lust-for-him-despite-his-old-age Elminster is still around...:-(

If I recall correctly they reduced his swagger though. I think he is an old man living his in his tower now.

LOL, given the announcement of D&D Next, I wonder if all the lore and retcon of 4E will be written off as nothing but a bad Pam Ewing-esque dream or an alternate universe and thus not canon anymore.

Speaking of alternate, I think it would be an interesting setting where a whole Prime World has been taken over by the Abyss and all the gods are demon lords...as it seems a whole pantheon of them covers every domain other Law and Good.

I think they went out of their way to avoid Lolth, since that's such a big part of DnD.

Yes. :)

Any chance of there being another of the spawn of Rovagug in this book?

Another spawn of Rovagug would be nice.

Golarion gods don't need mortals to sustain them.

If you don't like many gods, the only ones you need to remember are the ones currently in use in your game, but some of us like a bit of variety.

Then why they bother to have worshipers on Golarion? To get their egos stroked?

Kajehase wrote:

Golarion gods don't need mortals to sustain them.

If you don't like many gods, the only ones you need to remember are the ones currently in use in your game, but some of us like a bit of variety.

Then why they bother to have worshipers on Golarion? To get their egos stroked?

Kind of like nuclear weapons, part of the reason the gods want worshipers is because their enemies have worshipers. Fighting a proxy war by follower is also much easier on Rovagug's prison than doing it themselves.

increased influence in the mortal world (safer and easier to engage in conflicts with pawns than jumping in yourself)

Also you get the souls of your worshippers, which can go on to form outsiders loyal to you, thus building up your extraplanar power. Especially important if you are something like a demon lord, where you have to constantly worry about getting ganked by a rival, which seems pretty common.

Abyssal Lord wrote:

Kajehase wrote:

Golarion gods don't need mortals to sustain them.

If you don't like many gods, the only ones you need to remember are the ones currently in use in your game, but some of us like a bit of variety.

Then why they bother to have worshipers on Golarion? To get their egos stroked?

Kind of like nuclear weapons, part of the reason the gods want worshipers is because their enemies have worshipers. Fighting a proxy war by follower is also much safer on Rovagug's prison than doing it themselves.

Fixed that for you...

Well, at least they cleaned house on the Drow Pantheon. It was getting ridiculous.

Funny because Eilistraee was my favorite deity. XD

I really hope we get to see all the Heralds updated to Pathfinder, along with new artwork for them. Specifically hoping for a new illustration of the Night Monarch, Desna's Herald. I'd also like to see Phoenix Tail, the avoral bard of Shelyn, statted out or illustrated.

One thing that caught my interest recently is that some of the planar allies mentioned in the adventure path deity articles aren't strictly Outsiders; hopefully they'll still be able to be summoned with planar ally spells. For example, Star Monarchs are associated with Desna and her priests are said to be capable of calling them, even though they're technically Magical Beasts, not outsiders.

While I would like a full article on Socothbenoth and artwork on him, I imagine he may eventually be covered in an adventure path, as this book is mainly for the core 20.

I'm unsure what'll happen with the Hand of the Inheritor,

I'm unsure what'll happen with the Hand of the Inheritor,

** spoiler omitted **

As with the Inner Sea World Guide, Inner Sea Gods presents all of its information at the START of any potential new campaign. It does not attempt to take into account any of the events in any Adventure Path, since as with the Inner Sea World Guide... the events in those adventure paths are not assumed to have yet taken place as far as Inner Sea Gods cares.

These new Prestige Classes (I'm guessing 3 of them, based on the description) have really piped my interest.

Customizable? By deity?

Is it going to take much effort to adapt these classes to other campaign settings? For example, if I wanted to take it to the Dragon Empires and add options for worshipers of Daikitsu, could I?

Abyssal Lord wrote:

Well, at least they cleaned house on the Drow Pantheon. It was getting ridiculous.

Funny because Eilistraee was my favorite deity. XD

*shudder* don't remind me of that trillogy, though the concept of the Masked Lady (Eilistraee absorbing her brother) was intriguing for a campaign. How do you reconcile the two different churches?

Back on topic, I'd love to see notes on Aroden and other dead faiths and how the churches handled their passing. Or how churches reacted to changed deities (like pre cenobite Zon kuthon)

These new Prestige Classes (I'm guessing 3 of them, based on the description) have really piped my interest.

Customizable? By deity?

Is it going to take much effort to adapt these classes to other campaign settings? For example, if I wanted to take it to the Dragon Empires and add options for worshipers of Daikitsu, could I?

My thoughts as well, deity-customizable PrCs sounds like something I could use in my campaign.

I'm curious, for the mortals who have become gods, will the book discuss their pre-divine history, and perhaps the aftermath of their ascendance?

For example, I'd love to know what became of Iomedea's extended family after she passed the test of the Starstone.

Is it assumed that all mortals who have become gods have no remaining mortal kin?

One thing that I enjoyed about MW Production's Holy Orders of the Stars for 3.5 Dragonlance was the fact that each deity had a unique PRC for the Divinity. It added lots of flavor to the god.

I agree. Great book, and I hope this one does something similar for Clerics, and other divine classes to a lesser extent. They talked about that a little way back, but not sure if its changed. I do hope its not another book that focuses on trying to add material for non-divine religious classes too much. Theres plenty of that already.

I'm curious, for the mortals who have become gods, will the book discuss their pre-divine history, and perhaps the aftermath of their ascendance?

For example, I'd love to know what became of Iomedea's extended family after she passed the test of the Starstone.

Is it assumed that all mortals who have become gods have no remaining mortal kin?

The Cailean family still exists, although after so long it's questionable which of them are actually relatives of Cayden, which are descended from orphans taken in by the church and given the surname, and which just adopted the name to trade on glory. ...And which are descended from Cayden post-godhood, apparently that happens.

Supposedly Mummy's Mask is going to feature the ancient Osirion gods and the new Osirion, Legacy of Pharaohs book has a cleric of Wadjet statted out. Are the old Osirion gods going to get any mention in this book? And will they at least get enough information (if not here, in Mummy's Mask) for clerics, etc to make use of them (domains, alignments)?

Actually, any deities that have Favored weapon: Shield or Lance?

Actually, and deities that have a Favored weapon: Shield or Lance?

Personally, I want one with favored weapon: khopesh. It makes the most sense for an Ancient Egyptian deity and I also really want to make a khopesh-wielding warpriest.

Personally, I want one with favored enemy: khopesh.

:)

Does the Khopesh really deserve that sort of hate? Katana, sure I get that. Makes perfect sense. But Khopesh.

Supposedly Mummy's Mask is going to feature the ancient Osirion gods and the new Osirion, Legacy of Pharaohs book has a cleric of Wadjet statted out. Are the old Osirion gods going to get any mention in this book? And will they at least get enough information (if not here, in Mummy's Mask) for clerics, etc to make use of them (domains, alignments)?

Nope. Like the gods of Azlant or the gods of Tian-Xia... those deities are from a different overall "pantheon" than the Inner Sea region, despite the fact that they were worshiped in Osirion. Unlike the other two I mention above who are separated from the Inner Sea by space... these deities are separated by time.

Also... the specifics of these deities simply weren't available to be included in Inner Sea Gods at the time we had to ship that book.

Also also... there would have been simply no room to talk about them.

In all honesty, though, I could have sworn there was one.

Mike Tuholski wrote:

Personally, I want one with favored enemy: khopesh.

:)

Does the Khopesh really deserve that sort of hate? Katana, sure I get that. Makes perfect sense. But Khopesh.

Lol. Fixed.

Also, as to whether the Ancient Osirion gods will have enough info to make a cleric/warpriest/whatnot: the answer seems to be yes

Unlike the other two I mention above who are separated from the Inner Sea by space... these deities are separated by time.

Also... the specifics of these deities simply weren't available to be included in Inner Sea Gods at the time we had to ship that book.

Also also... there would have been simply no room to talk about them.

Makes sense. I look forward to seeing their info in Mummy's Mask then.

I can't wait to see info on the Ancient Osirian gods in Mummy's Mask as well. Too bad there wasn't any room or time to put them in this book.

Abyssal Lord wrote:

Well, at least they cleaned house on the Drow Pantheon. It was getting ridiculous.

Funny because Eilistraee was my favorite deity. XD

Blasphemy!

Given how Lolth have a strangle hold on the Drow, I often wonder why are there even other drow gods and goddesses, Vhaeraun and Eilistrae I can stomach because they later were retconned into Lolth's children.

Then the others, Kiaransalee, Zinzerena, Sevlatarm, Keptolo... I mean, aren't they rather redundant?

So glad they wiped the slate clean!

I for one am saddened that the release date for this book had been moved. I really like the cover and the premise behind the book.