I would have loved the Nosferatu to be a more powerful creature, now it's just the same CR as the normal Vampire.
There is no love in your soul.Perhaps if you want them constantly farting their stench aura all over your head.Flumphs make the best hats.Lloyd don't you know foil caps don't work against Flumphs?! I'll simply wear a drugged Lunarma on my head! Hope it doesn't drool...
As a note, sobered up, but now I'm hyped up on caffeine!
Ouch, man. Ouch.
But you're right, there's no love in my soul for anything with a stench aura. Musk I can handle, but an aura? Nope, nope, nope.
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I would have loved the Nosferatu to be a more powerful creature, now it's just the same CR as the normal Vampire.
It's a template, you just make the base creature more powerful. Honestly, templates adding more than 2 CR without racial HD get difficult to work with, because they get awesome abilities, but no HD to back it up, so they tend to die more quickly, have lower save DCs, and less powerful abilities. A nosferatu NPC of equivalent CR to a party can be up to 3 caster levels short for example.
Ow sorry, I always forgot the Nosferatu is just a template...
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There is no love in your soul.Perhaps if you want them constantly farting their stench aura all over your head.Flumphs make the best hats.Lloyd don't you know foil caps don't work against Flumphs?! I'll simply wear a drugged Lunarma on my head! Hope it doesn't drool...
As a note, sobered up, but now I'm hyped up on caffeine!
Ouch, man. Ouch.
But you're right, there's no love in my soul for anything with a stench aura. Musk I can handle, but an aura? Nope, nope, nope.
To be fair, they have a spray, not an aura.
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As if that makes it less gross.
I would expect that they still smell terrible. A skunk that's wandering around minding its own business can still be smelled 3 or 4 houses away.
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Hmmm what would you stat Ruthbert from The Swan Princess as I wonder?Just saw the Swan Maiden's transformation ritual.
What a fairy-tale scenario that opens up. :D
Y'know, I've only ever actually seen this version....
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Y'know, I've only ever actually seen this version....Hmmm what would you stat Ruthbert from The Swan Princess as I wonder?Just saw the Swan Maiden's transformation ritual.
What a fairy-tale scenario that opens up. :D
Huh. have to check that one out
the one from the 1994 goes from quirky to full on Nightmare Fuel
I'm really in LUV with the Mudlord! I mean... I liked the Mudmen from D&D but I always wished they had another name and Higher CR/Level and look what Paizo brought in! Mudlords!!!
I hope to see these critters getting a lot of attention in the Adventure Paths!
While the picture is nothing special to most, it sure makes me like the creature even more!
Bravo!
Yes, I agree, the Swan Maiden ritual is good fairytale scenario.
I like the Mudlord but I still would like the mudmen in a hardcover bestiary besides now I have a leader for the mudmen.
I already have a very awesome Paizo picture (from one Adventure Path) of the Mudman and I have the Tome of Horrors 1 which holds the stats for the Mudmen, so i'm pretty satisfied. Wouldn't mind to see Mudmen in future bestiaries tho, but its not a real wish of mine.
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Looking at Cernunnos and Vildeis' mental stats alongside Korada and the demon lords(especially Kostchtchie) it actually looks like an unintentional error.
I think I'm just going to boost them as needed. :)
I took the liberty of doing that myself. Looking forward to your comments! :)
I'm really sad the Erlking artwork is without its full wings...
I really hope that artist of the Erlking reads this and puts the full picture online on his Deviantart!! (just give me a PM if you did!)
Its the best Erlking drawing I've ever seen! I love those autumnleaf wings!
I would expect that they still smell terrible. A skunk that's wandering around minding its own business can still be smelled 3 or 4 houses away.
Which is ironic, because the smell of skunk doesn't bother me.
On my mother's side of the family, skunk musk has been a home remedy for sinuses for several generations. I don't find skunk musk revolting unless I'm getting a fresh, direct application to the face. Then its revolting. Hence my distaste for flumph hats.
No, the Snallygaster still has the very silly and cartoony artwork from the Adventure Path... :-(
I finally got my physical copy of the book yesterday.
Yeah, I was really disappointed in seeing the metal stats for the Empyreal Lords compared to the Demon Lords. I mean, I can get Dagon and Pazuzu being pretty smart. But Kostchtchie? I get that Paizo is trying to show that "CE != Stupid", which is fine. But at the expense of other outsiders? The demon superiority treatment is adding to my demon fatigue with Paizo, much like WotC did with dragons. I like Wrath of the Righteous, but I will be glad when it's finished.
However, I'm also a little disappointed in how you can't actually kill the Great Old Ones. I fail to see how they are so different from the other demigods, which can be killed, that they can't be killed. It does kind of scream of how some hardcore Mythos fans who think that nothing could beat anything from the mythos because, well, "they're Lovecraftian monsters! They always win!". And this is coming from a fan of Lovecraft.
I share your sentiments, Odraude.
Both of those just raise issues in my mind.
1) If evil just is that much better, why does it still lose?
2) If it can't be killed, don't make stats for it. Easy, right?
In ever understood why Hezrou and Balor are so smart, they look pretty dumbt to me and it woul be cooler to make them into dumb but powerfull creatures. The intelligent part is more for Succubi, Marilith, Pit fiends and most other devils in my opinion.
But if they make good too powerful, there won't be a challenge anymore.
I'm not a lovecraft fan and I only use some of his monsters in my games/stories, the great old ones aren't one of those so I don't care if they can't be killed cuz they aren't in my world to begin with.
I do think some lovecraft monsters get a little bit too much attention over others (like most lovecraft monster have 2 pages instead of just one like all the other normal critters)
Balor are demonic generals, of course they are smart. And i think its just fitting for the leader at the head of a demonic army to be of impressive stature. I mean they aren't known for subterfuge, the way you would expect a succubus to be, but they do need some intellect to work out battle plans.
Hezrou, I don't know why they need to be smart, but I also don't see a reason for them to be particularly dumb.
I see balors as brute generals, rushing into battle knowing their numbers are endless anyway, not brilliant stategists that's more the role of the Pit fiend if you aks me, i don't like making the Balor and Pit fiend even more alike than they are already are.
They could be Intelligence 14 or so, but not 25+ like they are now... i like the succubus, marilith and glabrezu to be much smarter than they are, but much weaker in other stuff.
Now Balors are supreme in EVERYTHING, that is kinda boring for me, I like Glabrezu and Marilith to scene against balors but fearing their terrible temper and strength/powers.
Hezrou would be as smart as a ogre for me.
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Yeah, but keep in mind that Pit Fiends and Balors are completely different races. You are not going to have a Pit Fiend running a demon army in Pathfinder canon.
When you are stupid and brute you can still force an army to fight for you cuz they fear you.
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That's something I don't get about these complaints about a lack of race points in the Bestiary 4. Like all bestiaries, the Bestiary 4 is a GM toolkit, presenting the GM with critters of all shapes and sizes to pit against his players' characters (or to use as allies to the players' characters). It is NOT a player resource, or at least it's not intended as such, I think. So why is there a need for the race points? Does a GM need the race points to slap class levels on these critters? I'd say no. Sure, using them as playable races is an option, but I imagine that's secondary to the monster's primary function, and I'd prefer that the focus be kept on the primary function as a critter.
Player-friendly books such as the Advanced Race Guide or the Player Companion books are much better venues for these race points to be included, I think.
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I'm extremely disappointed in the "new" races. Not only are they not new, but they don't show us the race points, which pretty much forces people to use the ARG to find their race points there.
That's exactly the point. The ARG presents them as races and includes their race points for info about building them (as examples of the race-building chapter). Bestiary 4 presents them as monsters, and therefore the race-builder info is irrelevant, because they're not presented as races.
I'm extremely disappointed in the "new" races. Not only are they not new, but they don't show us the race points, which pretty much forces people to use the ARG to find their race points there.That's exactly the point. The ARG presents them as races and includes their race points for info about building them (as examples of the race-building chapter). Bestiary 4 presents them as monsters, and therefore the race-builder info is irrelevant, because they're not presented as races.
Unless you happen to be the kitsune, whose Change Shape ability was never priced in the Advanced Race Guide because of close proximity to the release of the Dragon Empires Primer.
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Says, has anybody else gone to page 98, read the description of the monster, then look at the picture, and say, "Holy crap, when did Slimer go on such a diet?!"
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While I love this bestiary, as I have all so far, I feel like it went a little too far in one aspect. There was a time when the Spawn of Rovagug where held to be the biggest, baddest creatures in Golarion (Tarrasque etc), that seems to have been replaced by the Kaiju. The bestiay alludes to a very large number of them that periodically rampage through cities. I feel sorry for my Spawn now, they seem to be lesser Kaiju :(
Unless you happen to be the kitsune, whose Change Shape ability was never priced in the Advanced Race Guide because of close proximity to the release of the Dragon Empires Primer.I'm extremely disappointed in the "new" races. Not only are they not new, but they don't show us the race points, which pretty much forces people to use the ARG to find their race points there.That's exactly the point. The ARG presents them as races and includes their race points for info about building them (as examples of the race-building chapter). Bestiary 4 presents them as monsters, and therefore the race-builder info is irrelevant, because they're not presented as races.Hmm? 3 RP for Change Shape, Lesser, isn't it?
** spoiler omitted **
I ... never even noticed that ability from the Advanced Race Guide.
I retract my former comment towards you, Sean.
While I love this bestiary, as I have all so far, I feel like it went a little too far in one aspect. There was a time when the Spawn of Rovagug where held to be the biggest, baddest creatures in Golarion (Tarrasque etc), that seems to have been replaced by the Kaiju. The bestiay alludes to a very large number of them that periodically rampage through cities. I feel sorry for my Spawn now, they seem to be lesser Kaiju :(
The Spawn of Rovagug are part of the Golarian campaign setting - the Bestiaries are campaign setting neutral.
The Spawn of Rovagug are meant to be endcaps to non-mythic campaigns, while Kaiju are all meant to be used in mythic campaigns
Which Kaiju reminds you of a blank page?
I'm so sad that Graeae and Dorvae have such a vague, chaotic and strange artwork that I really can't use in my games...
Why would artwork keep you from using a monster? They ARE vague monsters..they players don't need to know whats under the robes, and if they actually DO need to..make it up. Most of Lovecrafts monsters and gods were actually described vaguely..the idea is that the mind makes up more horror than the author can. Let the players sweat what is under the hood..why its so horrifying it cant/wont revel its face. They will do your job for you then..
I'll print my own Pathfinder Pawns, without a visable pawn I don't want the monster.
Graeae are from real mythology so the monster is a must for me, but with that picture I can't work with it, I don't even know where the arms of that hag are in the picture, and where are the legs?
The Dorvae sounds like an awesome monster with attitude, so I wanted to have a clear pawn of it as well, but with that thing I can't work, too much going on and I can't see legs nor arms, just a chaotic blurr of snakes and robes.
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Why would artwork keep you from using a monster? They ARE vague monsters..they players don't need to know whats under the robes, and if they actually DO need to..make it up. Most of Lovecrafts monsters and gods were actually described vaguely..the idea is that the mind makes up more horror than the author can. Let the players sweat what is under the hood..why its so horrifying it cant/wont revel its face. They will do your job for you then..
At least last I saw, this guy doesn't actually play Pathfinder. Yeah, I'll let you pick your jaw off the ground now.
Why would artwork keep you from using a monster? They ARE vague monsters..they players don't need to know whats under the robes, and if they actually DO need to..make it up. Most of Lovecrafts monsters and gods were actually described vaguely..the idea is that the mind makes up more horror than the author can. Let the players sweat what is under the hood..why its so horrifying it cant/wont revel its face. They will do your job for you then..At least last I saw, this guy doesn't actually play Pathfinder. Yeah, I'll let you pick your jaw off the ground now.
I do play it, but not the way YOU or others play it.
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I don't know, I'm actually with Gan on the dislike of the Dorvae art if for no other reason then it's described as this reptilian nightmare with wings and what we get kind of looks like the vague after effects of worshiping Hastur. Don't get me wrong the art looks good but I feel like it is not in service of the given description.