Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary 4 (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary 4 (OGL)
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Untold Horrors!

Confront the creatures that go bump in the night! Bestiary 4 presents hundreds of new monsters for use in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. Within this tome of terrors you'll find pitiless psychopomps and blood-drinking nosferatu, insectile formians and faceless nightgaunts, and even unique mythological horrors like Spring- Heeled Jack and Grendel himself. Yet not every creature need be an enemy, as mighty empyreal lords, primeval outer dragons, and valorous swan maidens enlist you in their epic battles!

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary 4 is the fourth indispensable volume of monsters for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and serves as a companion to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into the new millennium.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary 4 includes:

  • More than 300 different monsters
  • Creatures from classic horror literature and monster films, including the colour out of space, elder things, and kaiju
  • New player-friendly races like changelings, kitsune, and nagaji
  • Entities of mythic might, from despotic demon lords and alien elohim to terrifying Great Old Ones—including Cthulhu!
  • New creatures you can construct, like clockworks and juggernauts
  • New familiars, animal companions, and other allies
  • New templates to help you get more life out of classic monsters
  • Appendices to help you find the right monster, including lists by Challenge Rating, monster type, and habitat
  • Expanded universal monster rules to simplify combat
  • Challenges for every adventure and every level of play
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-575-4

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Rulebook Subscription.

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The Horror Takes Center Stage....

5/5

This edition of the Bestiary series brings all the worst nightmares, not found in a traditional fantasy setting alive! Despite the horror feel, they work in any genre you might be playing. By far my favorite of the Bestiary series! The sheer creativity of the Paizo team explodes in this awesome collection of crazy!


An RPG Resource Review

5/5

Herein is a fine and fascinating array of monsters, most with supernatural aspects and worthy of songs and legends... indeed it is suggested that to make the most of them you should be also using the Mythic Adventures rules. Fitting adversaries for those who fancy themselves as such legendary heroes, perhaps...

The Introduction is mainly explanation of how each monster entry is presented, complete with handy icons used to enable you to tell at a glance the creature type and the terrain and climate that it favours. These are supplemented by appendices that list them by CR, terrain and so on thus enabling you to populate a chosen area with ease. Other appendices deal with special abilities and other details, including a fascinating section on monster creation, another on monster advancement and one on monsters as player-characters.

The main bulk of the book is composed of an alphabetical listing of the monsters. Each comes with a colour illustration and stat block, with plenty of detail and description to enable you to work out suitable uses for it and how it will behave when encountered by the party.

Beginning with the abaia, an eel with a strong regard for the environment which acts as guardian to a body of water... and turns quite nasty if you do not respect the lake it inhabits (it doesn't mind people who take only what they need, it is those who abuse nature that upsets them), there follows a fascinating array of creatures.

The almiraj, for example, looks like a cross between a rabbit and a unicorn, but it's no fluffy bunny! If nothing else, anything slain by its horn is turned to stone so if the poor almiraj wants to eat whatever it has attacked (it's apparently a carnivore), it has to eat its prey alive.

One of the weirdest is the colour out of space. This is an eerie radient incorporeal ooze that leaches life out of its surroundings until it reaches maturity, at which time it departs into the interstellar depths from which it came. If that's not enough for you, the Great Old Ones are here, so if you wish to combat Cthulhu or Hastur or the like, now you can... if you dare. Most have cults associated with them, details of which are also given.

If it's monsters out of legend that you want, there are beings such as Grendel, if you prefer more mundane ones there are gremlins or even giraffes! Undead too, and an alchemist's error called a hungry flesh, a giant ooze. To cap it all, how about an immortal ichor, which is an intelligent mass of blood from a dead evil deity...

This is indeed a collection of monsters rich and strange, ones whose very being deserve a song or story, never mind those that will be written when heroes defeat them in battle!


Lots of fun new monsters!

4/5

Read my full review on Of Dice and Pen.

Bestiary 4 contains over 300 new monsters. All the monster types are represented, although some more than others. There are many of the standards found in every Bestiary—new dinosaurs, devils, dragons—but also many unusual and bizarre creatures. It has provided me with lots of new options to throw at my players, and that’s always a good thing.


5/5

The Bestiary 4 for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game has been one of the more favorites of the Bestiary series for me and I'd like to take a moment to tell you why.

To start, the Bestiary 4 has added everything from new types of fey to additional golems as well as the more prominent and popular Kaiju, Great Old Ones, and Empyreal Lords. Paizo's inclusion of these creatures that've gone on to become pop culture legends in their own right is a direct result of the designer's dedication to getting their monsters right. The Bestiary 4 is an awesome sourcebook and stands right up there with the Bestiary 3 in terms of 'fantasy verisimilitude,' hardening gamers resolve against such villainous foes as Cthulhu himself.

Not every book is a perfect image of idolatry however and the Bestiary 4 is no exception. While it's true that this book is littered with new baddies for your players to chase and new races for their characters to face, it is also bogged down with what seems to be an over-saturation of multiple page monsters. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does seem as if several of these creatures could've used a proverbial trimming before being posted.

If you don't mind a bit of length though and you want more vile beasts for your players to square off against then the Bestiary 4 is yet another wonderful book to add to your collection and one that comes Five-Star recommended by your Severed Ronin.

Robert Beasley
"The Severed Ronin"


You probably know if you need this

5/5

This is a good Bestiary. I'd personally put it up with Bestiary 3, with both having a good mix of classic, mythological, and completely new monsters.

There's a bit of a horror them and a bit of a mythic theme, but neither is overwhelming. If you're looking for a whole book of mythic monsters, this isn't it. If you're worried the whole book is mythic monsters, there aren't that many in practice.

For me, the evocative flavor on the high CR creatures pushes it over the top. The demon lords, empyreals, and great old ones really feel like epic creatures.

If you're sure you don't need any more monsters... don't buy this book. That said, I wasn't sure if I needed any more monsters and was definitely impressed by this.

Short Version: These are sweet monsters, but only you know whether you want more monsters.


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Silver Crusade

Feros wrote:

And just to give a little more for Mikaze in case the download faerie hasn't yet made a visit:

** spoiler omitted **

Punching curses and possessions right out of people! :D


How does the killer seahorse work? What about the Emperor Walrus?

What abilities do Hastur and Dagon have?


What is the Xanthos? (Hoping against all reason that they just misspelled Xanatos :p)


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Troodos wrote:

How does the killer seahorse work? What about the Emperor Walrus?

What abilities do Hastur and Dagon have?

Killer Seahorse:
CR 5 brute. Bite cause bleed damage and it has a tail slap. It's bred by underwater races for guard dog duty.

Emperor Walrus:
CR 8 Gargantuan (!) animal that rules over some walrus communities. It's big and you don't want to be hit by a tusk. Or a flipper for that matter.

Hastur:
Anyone within 300 feet of him must make a DC 40 Will save or go insane. He can reveal his true form to someone and paralyze them with fear and take Wis drain. His robes slash people and do bleed damage. If he is slain and someone touches his robes, that person must make a Will save or be compelled to put the robes on which promptly detroy the pitiful fool and replace him with a reborn Hastur. There's more, but that is the big combat style stuff.

Dagon:
Dagon swallows people and transforms them into half-demons, regurgitating them up to fight for him. His breath weapon is poisonous (Con drain and confusion) and resembles a cloud of ink underwater or a black cloud on the surface. It adds negative levels as memories are drained away. Aside from that he is a very imposing demon—with a really great picture!


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Troodos wrote:
What is the Xanthos? (Hoping against all reason that they just misspelled Xanatos :p)

Nope, though that would have been cool!

Xanthos:
A huge intelligent magical beast that looks like a cross between a horse and a lizard. Using the description given, "This elephant-sized equine creature has bright red skin, fangs, six eyes, and armored plates on its head, neck, and back." They can be befriended and are willing to act as steeds (within reason). They can travel between planets when the planets are in the correct alignment.


What is the Oceanid like and some abilities?

What is the Myrmeceleon like and some abilities?

What is the Dossenus like and some abilities?


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OMG would you stop pending ;___________;


Are the Great Old Ones outsiders or aberrations?


Troodos wrote:
Are the Great Old Ones outsiders or aberrations?

Aberrations and Magical Beasts.

Dark Archive

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Oceanid- Sea nymph/dryad, helpful to those who flatter them. Lower body can turn into a pillar of water while above water for fast movement. Only has SLAs while near the ocean, takes damage away from water, water telekinesis, can create waves and currents.

Myrmecoleon- Armored antlion-beetle. No literal 'lion' features like some versions. Drawn to magic power, highly aggressive. Acid spray breath attack thta turns into a noxious cloud, acid death throes, blood drain, constrict, mythic power, trample.

Dossenus- Alien-looking green-and-brown crab-face-thing with spined legs. Subterranean pack hunter. Very hungry, burrows, climbs, doesn't give up chasing prey unless the prey enters water. Sometimes gathers by the thousands in massive swarms. Better than normal burrowing, adamantine bite, hydrophobic with auto-failing swim checks, can share a space with another Dossenus to gain flanking.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Does this volume include any demons? Besides the three demon lords that is. :D


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I have noticed that the Grab ability has reverted back to its version from the first Bestiary by once again including the sentence "Unless otherwise noted, grab only works against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature".

Is this a reversal of the rule change introduced in Bestiary 2, and kept through Bestiary 3, in which books this sentence has been omitted from the ability description, or simply a mistake?


19 days before my preorder ships.

I hope you guys at paizo get the opportunity some time to smoothen out your correspondence with overseas retailers soon.

I want this book!


I want me some Emperor Walrus!!!

Too bad the Killer Seahorse didn't get the art but the little pony Seahorse did... :-(

Also Velociraptor CR 2???!?!??! That is bad... how can that little thing be more dangerous than the Jack o Lantern and Almiraj? Velociraptor should be CR 1

Deinonychus is the badguy, Velociraptor couldn't kill a dog.


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Despite velociraptors being quite small, they were pretty deadly. A single pounce and their victim would have multile wounds, bleeding profusely already. Repeat a few times and the prey is down.
Dromeonsaurids are made to bring down larger creatures, although to be fair they do it in groups usually.
But the only reason they couldn't kill a dog, is that there weren't any dogs around in the late cretaceous.


Well Almiraj are also created to take down larger creatures, so they deserve to be higher CR than Velociraptor.


I can't say anything about Almiraj, since I don't have the book yet. All know is they are creepy unicorn bunnies.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gancanagh wrote:
Velociraptor couldn't kill a dog.

Of course they couldn't, dogs didn't exist in the Jurassic era.


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Gorbacz wrote:
Gancanagh wrote:
Velociraptor couldn't kill a dog.
Of course they couldn't, dogs didn't exist in the Jurassic era.

Your a little late to the party baggy, that joke was already made by Threeshades :-p

And the velociraptor was from the Cretaceous era not the Jurassic (OOO I love playing the annoying nerd)


Ok i'm gonna spoil myself on one creature from my main wishlist just because I can't wait anymore.

Is the Abaia in?


Gancanagh wrote:

Ok i'm gonna spoil myself on one creature from my main wishlist just because I can't wait anymore.

Is the Abaia in?

Yes. According to the blog post, first monster in the book.


YES! I dreamt that some months ago that when I opened up Bestiary 4 the first monster in there would be Abaia! :-P

Now i'm officially hyped and I hope this week ends soon, can't wait till next wednesday!


The best thing about Bestiaries is that creatures inside it can all get their way into the AP's, that's why I want all my favorite AP Bestiary monsters to appear in hardcover bestiaries cuz in that way they make a chance to appear in the AP main story, creatures from the AP bestiaries that aren't in a Hardcover Bestiary don't make a chance...

So can't wait to see creatures like Alpluachra, Soulsliver, Abaia and Xeno (the mimic creature) appear in AP's!


So the old ones are aberrations and magical beast, that is strange, wasn't the star spawn an outsider?

Thanks for answering the questions Lord Gadigan.

Shadow Lodge

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Odraude wrote:
The Werecrocodile looks like he could be a cartoon character. I've already named him Bayou Billy and am imagining him with a Creole accent.

I would have gone with Leatherhead.


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Leatherhead(1980's) or a Disney villain from Darkwing Duck or Ducktales;)

Shadow Lodge

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I was thinking the Ninja Turtles character.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Gancanagh wrote:

I want me some Emperor Walrus!!!

Too bad the Killer Seahorse didn't get the art but the little pony Seahorse did... :-(

Also Velociraptor CR 2???!?!??! That is bad... how can that little thing be more dangerous than the Jack o Lantern and Almiraj? Velociraptor should be CR 1

Deinonychus is the badguy, Velociraptor couldn't kill a dog.

You haven't seen the new stats on the vicious thing. Oh yes, it could easily kill a dog...


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Kyle Beltz wrote:
Does this volume include any demons? Besides the three demon lords that is. :D

No new demons or daemons.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Dragon78 wrote:

So the old ones are aberrations and magical beast, that is strange, wasn't the star spawn an outsider?

Thanks for answering the questions Lord Gadigan.

Nope. Aberrations.


Lol, I have this odd thing against Velociraptor cuz its probably the Wolverine (x-men) from the Dinosaur world.

Overused fan-favorite of the dinosaur fanboys, I had many fights over it when I was young as people didn't cared for Deinonychus only for Velociraptor because they were in Jurrassic park... ahhh the memories haunt me forever of those fools. :-p

I would rather have seen the Dilophosaurus (with poison + frill) than the Velociraptor, I think Deinonychus does well enough on its own for the Dromea-family.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Let's dispel some myths that people have here about the Pathfinder stats of the

Velociraptor:
It has evasion. It is a pack hunter that can do double damage with it's two claws (normal damage 1d6+1 each) on a leap attack (essentially 2 attacks that do 2d6+2 each, with a crit range of 19-20 to double it again should that happen). It gets a leap attack whenever it charges and ignores difficult terrain on a charge. Now face 3-12 of them at a time.

How's that?


Still don't like Velociraptor, only its name sounds cool, that's why they used them instead of Deinonychus. :p


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Gancanagh wrote:

Lol, I have this odd thing against Velociraptor cuz its probably the Wolverine (x-men) from the Dinosaur world.

Overused fan-favorite of the dinosaur fanboys, I had many fights over it when I was young as people didn't cared for Deinonychus only for Velociraptor because they were in Jurrassic park... ahhh the memories haunt me forever of those fools. :-p

I would rather have seen the Dilophosaurus (with poison + frill) than the Velociraptor, I think Deinonychus does well enough on its own for the Dromea-family.

*Chuckles* Yeah, I quite agree. But they made the little bugger a lot more dangerous now.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Actually they've found a lot of the smaller raptors were probably very good at taking down larger prey especially when hunting in groups. The problem we have today is that there really aren't a lot of modern examples that readily come to mind of small birds or reptiles measuring around the same size as them successfully taking down man sized prey for us to wrap our minds around the concept. That being said it could very easily take down a man probably would look a lot like what we see when a golden eagle kills deer, it would jump up onto its prey and start carving while using its bulk to force the victim to the ground.


They mainly hunted (as far as we know) for smaller game like Gallimimus, Oviraptor and Protoceratops, they wouldn't touch the Therizinosaurus or Tarbosaurus.

Enter Deinoychus which even attacked sauropods.

I would have liked Velociraptors better in pathfinder if they were weaker, we have Deinoychus so no need to have another (almost same CR) creature of the same species.

If you use a smaller Deinonychus then make it much weaker :-p

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gancanagh wrote:


And the velociraptor was from the Cretaceous era not the Jurassic (OOO I love playing the annoying nerd)

It was in the movie JURASSIC PARK. Therefore, it is Jurassic. You can take your pinko euro commie "science" books home!


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
Gancanagh wrote:


And the velociraptor was from the Cretaceous era not the Jurassic (OOO I love playing the annoying nerd)
It was in the movie JURASSIC PARK. Therefore, it is Jurassic. You can take your pinko euro commie "science" books home!

Yeah! Stop annoying us with all those inconvenient "facts"! :p


What is the Myrmecoleon like?

What CR?
What Appearance?
What fluff?


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Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
doc the grey wrote:
Actually they've found a lot of the smaller raptors were probably very good at taking down larger prey especially when hunting in groups. The problem we have today is that there really aren't a lot of modern examples that readily come to mind of small birds or reptiles measuring around the same size as them successfully taking down man sized prey for us to wrap our minds around the concept. That being said it could very easily take down a man probably would look a lot like what we see when a golden eagle kills deer, it would jump up onto its prey and start carving while using its bulk to force the victim to the ground.

I dunno, there's gotta be a reason it's called a "Murder" of crows. *paranoid*

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Gancanagh wrote:

They mainly hunted (as far as we know) for smaller game like Gallimimus, Oviraptor and Protoceratops, they wouldn't touch the Therizinosaurus or Tarbosaurus.

Enter Deinoychus which even attacked sauropods.

I would have liked Velociraptors better in pathfinder if they were weaker, we have Deinoychus so no need to have another (almost same CR) creature of the same species.

If you use a smaller Deinonychus then make it much weaker :-p

I wouldn't say that you should make the velociraptor vastly weaker because it is 1 CR weaker then the Deinonychus but I do see your point, I'm not as into having 2 terrible clawed raptors sitting in the CR 2 and 3 positions and nowhere else. Maybe we could see an update to the Dein and put it at around CR 4 or maybe we could finally get the Utahraptor.

The other thing you might want to consider is that if you are normally running into these guys they would be in packs of about 3-6 so the CR for either ratchets up well with the Deinonychus being quite a bit more capable of taking down that larger prey.


Yeah I agree, to me the Velociraptor always is the much smaller and weaker cousin of the Deinonychus while the Utah/mega raptor is the same to Deinonychus, much bigger and badder a hunter of Brachiosaurus & CO.

I'm sure team HE! BUT VELOCIRAPTOR IS BAD@SS AWESORE! MEGACOOL! Hands-down-on-the-king-of-dinosaurs! Will disagree, but that would be cooler in my opinion.

Weak - Velociraptor
Medium - Deinonychus
Strong - Utahraptor (renamed Mega Raptor or something like that)


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Kajehase wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Actually they've found a lot of the smaller raptors were probably very good at taking down larger prey especially when hunting in groups. The problem we have today is that there really aren't a lot of modern examples that readily come to mind of small birds or reptiles measuring around the same size as them successfully taking down man sized prey for us to wrap our minds around the concept. That being said it could very easily take down a man probably would look a lot like what we see when a golden eagle kills deer, it would jump up onto its prey and start carving while using its bulk to force the victim to the ground.
I dunno, there's gotta be a reason it's called a "Murder" of crows. *paranoid*

You haven't seen a true murder of crows until corn season in a rural area. Part of my job has me helping out in a sod field and some evenings thousands of crows will descend and start talking to each other. They cover a couple of acres and are deafening.


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Gancanagh wrote:

What is the Myrmecoleon like?

What CR?
What Appearance?
What fluff?

Myrmecoleon:
A Huge beetle-like magical beast with black armored plates. Around its head and neck it has a mane of spikes. It can spray acid from it's mouth that vaporizes into a stinking cloud like affect. It can constrict with it's mandibles and has blood drain. Killing it causes it to explode covering everyone in the area with an acid bath.

It's Mythic (MR 3) and is CR 10.

They claim large areas of wilderness for hunting grounds. They’re often drawn to ancient ruins and sites of mythic power in remote regions. Some sages believe that some myrmecoleons are spontaneously created by sites of mythic power.
They tend to fight with each other and are very territorial. They like to roll around in the corpses of their victims and impaling them n their spikes. They leave the corpses there until they rot. It is speculated that this is a show of strength or an elaborate mating ritual.


What powers do the "Great Old One" subtype, the "Fleshwarp" subtype (if any) and the "Emphyreal Lord" subtype provide?

Shadow Lodge

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Velociraptors aren't dangerous because one single one is so badass. They're dangerous because they hunt in packs. Would you rather face one T-Rex, or a half-dozen velociraptors?


Gancanagh wrote:

They mainly hunted (as far as we know) for smaller game like Gallimimus, Oviraptor and Protoceratops, they wouldn't touch the Therizinosaurus or Tarbosaurus.

Enter Deinoychus which even attacked sauropods.

I would have liked Velociraptors better in pathfinder if they were weaker, we have Deinoychus so no need to have another (almost same CR) creature of the same species.

If you use a smaller Deinonychus then make it much weaker :-p

Gallimimus was over 20 times a velociraptor's size, thats pretty impressive. Also, they could take down large prey by impaling the spinal cord with its claw, paralyzing it.


Gallimimus was a weakling, no defence only speed, something velociraptor also had. Its like captering a fast cow, so not really impressive.

And Kthulhu, you did watch too many Jurassic park movies eh? Those from the movies aren't velociraptors.
I would rather face velociraptor pack than T.rex, I would rather face T.Rex than Deinonychus pack. Really saying you rather face velociraptor (small dog sized) than a huge predator where you have NO defence against is crazy... Its like saying you rather face a t.rex than a pack of wolves... You can hit smaller creatures with stones and sticks, you can't do the same with T.rex which doesn't even feel that.

And thanks Feros for that cool answer!

I still have another question tho! What does the Dark Dancer look like? Does it have something in common with the Deadly Dancer from D&D? (pins for arms/legs?) dancing its way into battle with deadly weapons?


Gancanagh wrote:

They mainly hunted (as far as we know) for smaller game like Gallimimus, Oviraptor and Protoceratops, they wouldn't touch the Therizinosaurus or Tarbosaurus.

Enter Deinoychus which even attacked sauropods.

I would have liked Velociraptors better in pathfinder if they were weaker, we have Deinoychus so no need to have another (almost same CR) creature of the same species.

If you use a smaller Deinonychus then make it much weaker :-p

We know they hunted Protoceratops...the other species are conjecture. And Protoceratops were probably pretty fierce little critters...The fact that we have a preserved death scene where both died while fighting is evidence of that.As far as not attacking those other guys...um...that is like saying that weasels are lame because they don't regularly kill bears or elephants. Dinosaurs are animals, not fantasy beasts. They are not going to be suicidal in their hunting tactics.

There is absolutely 0 evidence that Deinonychus hunted Sauropods. Deinonychus also would not have attacked large carnivores or really aggresive large herbivores. If they went after any of the big carnosaurs (assuming they were pack hunters, a big if), a large chunk of the pack would be killed, and they probably still wouldn't be able to kill the larger predator. We have fossil evidence of them preserved in association with the ornithopod Tenontosaurus, however it might not be a a natural assemblage. (And Tenontosaurus is, IIRC, maybe 20 feet or so, most of which is tail. Not a 60 ft long Sauropod)

To be honest, I don't think there is actually that great evidence that any of those guys are pack hunters. They were smart for dinosaurs, but "smart" for dinosaurs is still far stupider than most mammalian carnivores


OMG! I just learned that Hari-onago is in this book! *faints!*

What kind of hair-abilities does she have?

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