Pathfinder Adventure Path #75: Demon's Heresy (Wrath of the Righteous 3 of 6) (PFRPG)

4.20/5 (based on 6 ratings)
Pathfinder Adventure Path #75: Demon's Heresy (Wrath of the Righteous 3 of 6) (PFRPG)
Show Description For:
Non-Mint

Add Print Edition $22.99 $11.49

Add PDF $15.99

Add Non-Mint $22.99 $17.24

Facebook Twitter Email

Chapter 3: "Demon's Heresy"
by Jim Groves

The Wrath of the Righteous Adventure Path continues with “Demon's Heresy,” by Jim Groves. After reclaiming the city of Drezen and recovering the lost sacred banner known as the Sword of Valor, the heroes have established a significant foothold behind enemy lines. With the demon armies still concentrating their attacks to the south, the heroes must now set off into the heart of the Worldwound to seek out powerful new allies and strike a mortal blow against the Templars of the Ivory Labyrinth—but in doing so, they discover a disturbing truth about the crystalline source of mythic power the demons have been using against the crusaders. Will the heroes survive the terrors of the Worldwound long enough to end the demons’ increasing attacks?

This volume of Pathfinder Adventure Path continues the Wrath of the Righteous Adventure Path and includes:

  • “Demon’s Heresy,” a Pathfinder RPG adventure for 9th-level characters with 3 mythic tiers, by Jim Groves.
  • A study of the Green Faith, an ancient philosophy revolving around nature, by Sean K Reynolds.
  • A look at the unnatural horrors known as worms that walk, by Amanda Hamon.
  • A journey to a crusader outpost inside the Worldwound in the Pathfinder’s Journal, by Robin D. Laws.
  • Four new monsters, by Jim Groves, Amanda Hamon, and James Jacobs.

Each monthly full-color softcover Pathfinder Adventure Path volume contains an in-depth adventure scenario, stats for several new monsters, and support articles meant to give Game Masters additional material to expand their campaign. Pathfinder Adventure Path volumes use the Open Game License and work with both the Pathfinder RPG and the world’s oldest fantasy RPG.

ISBN–13: 978-1-60125-577-8

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscription.

Product Availability

Print Edition:

Available now

Ships from our warehouse in 1 to 5 business days.

PDF:

Fulfilled immediately.

Non-Mint:

Available now

Ships from our warehouse in 1 to 5 business days.

This product is non-mint. Refunds are not available for non-mint products. The standard version of this product can be found here.

Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at store@paizo.com.

PZO9075


See Also:

1 to 5 of 6 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

Average product rating:

4.20/5 (based on 6 ratings)

Sign in to create or edit a product review.

A fun, if unchallenging, third leg

3/5

Just to get this out of the way, let me start with the following obligatory advice:

Advice on adjusting the difficulty level of this AP:
Before running this AP, I was warned that the power of mythic PCs quickly outpaced the difficulty of the encounters the AP provides. Despite taking a number of precautions to mitigate this (having players use a 10 point-buy, applying advanced templates to every mythic creature, etc), I found this to be true.

In light of our experiences, and those reported on the boards, the consensus seems to be that there are two generally viable ways to deal with these problems:

Option 1: Power-down the PCs.

(a) Don't give the PCs mythic ranks.

(b) [Optional:] Use the Hero Point system introduced in the APG, and give the PCs a number of Hero Points per day equal to the number of mythic ranks they're supposed to have. (This makes players a bit more robust.)

(c) More or less play the AP as is. (Though there are a couple of encounters in book 6 that will probably need to be made a bit easier).

Option 2: Power-up the encounters.

(a) Give the PCs mythic ranks as the AP suggests (possibly with the nerfs suggested in Mythic Solutions).

(b) Use the (vastly) upgraded stat blocks presented in Sc8rpi8n_mjd's modified stat blocks document to upgrade encounters, and then further multiply the HPs given in the stat blocks by something like (creature's mythic rank+3)/3. (For more optimized players you may need to multiply HPs even more.)

Our experience, FWIW: We played books 1-4 more or less as is, and (despite my efforts to boost and combine encounters) found books 3 and 4 to be far too easy to be fun. We then adopted something like option 2 for books 5 and 6, and found that to be much more challenging and enjoyable. But we also found that combat can take forever -- don't be surprised if you find yourself needing to spend more than one session to get through a fight.

The story of this AP was pretty good -- with a sandbox exploration of a demonic landscape, and a very memorable NPC who can join the party -- but it didn't have as epic a feel as the second leg of this AP.

We found the encounters in this AP to be far too easy for mythic PCs, especially given the 1/day encounter-rate that hexploration lends itself to. (I combined all of the encounters at Arueshalae's Redoubt into one encounter, and combined the Ivory Sanctum encounters in 3 big encounters, and the PCs still had little difficult plowing through them.)

--Fun of playing this leg of the AP, as written: 2/5
--Fun of the story of this leg of the AP: 4.5/5
--Total score: 3.25/5


Character's Backstories Come Alive

5/5

Wrath of the Righteous continues to be a fantastic story. Demon’s Heresy isn’t as intense or as high stakes as the two previous chapters in the campaign, but it is still equally engaging and offers big opportunities for story and character development.

Wrath of the Righteous character traits pay off in big ways I never expected. I was playing a PC with the Touched By Divinity trait who was shocked and delighted to learn the news of her heritage. What a wonderful twist that was! Other characters also had interesting revelations about themselves depending on which traits they’d chosen. I was really impressed by the way each PC was given a personal story arc in this chapter that fit in so well to the overall adventure path. It was so enjoyable to play through.

This chapter also introduced Arueshalae, my favorite NPC of the entire campaign. What a strong, complex, loveable character she is! Her heartfelt desire to redeem herself is truly inspirational, and the love she shares with her chosen PC is really sweet.

Once again the artwork through the book is fantastic. There are interesting and challenging villains who are a pleasure to defeat. Lots of unique and pretty magical items, too.

Highly recommended!


a Hexceptional adventure!

3/5

Well, we get to the third part of the campaign. The PCs already saved a city and conquered a fortress, they blasted wardstones in the face of thousands of demons and retrieved a long lost artifact.

And now, they are reduced to roaming the worldwound and hoping something interesting would pop up in front of them.

I have now read 5 out of the 6 adventures in the campaign, and I feel like I have a good picture of it's general shape in mind. And I must say that this is the adventure where I feel the story maybe lost it's direction a bit.

The two previous adventures were about starting things off, and they did a really good job of it. By the end of the first adventure the scene was set for a new crusade, with the PCs standing firm in the front lines. By the second adventure the PCs already took an active part in the new war. But now? now nothing much is happening. Even though a war is supposedly raging in the near vicinity, the environment around the PCs does not really seem to react to it. This adventure is really kind of just a tour of the worldwound, more than it really is part of the campaign.
By the end of the adventure, the PCs spent their time walking around and bumping into numerous little encounters without getting anything important accomplished. Eventually they just happen to run into an encounter that is important, but really all the intermediate little stories could have been skipped. In later adventures the PCs will run around doing very important things, but the larger picture is missing. So much story momentum is lost here that I feel the entire campaign is a bit awkward after it.

Maybe it's my personal dislike of sandbox adventures, maybe not, I just feel that the players are going to spend so much time touring and sightseeing in this third part of the AP that by the time the actual story of the campaign kicks back in they might be a bit cold for it.

All in all, the weakest part of the AP, if for no other reason than it's non-significance from a story telling point of view. For those who like a sandbox, though, this one is as good as any Iv'e ever seen.


4/5

Read my full review on Of Dice and Pen.

Demon’s Heresy is a welcome change of pace for the Wrath of the Righteous adventure path. After the urgency of the first two volumes, it allows the PCs to breathe a little (just a little) as they secure their hold on Drezen and the surrounding lands. While they do this, the PCs also have the opportunity to make a powerful new ally and score a major blow against the demon forces. All things considered, Wrath of the Righteous continues to surprise me with just how good it is.


Great book, great adventure

5/5

This is a great addition to the adventure which is fantastic. I'm having a problem with the interactive maps in the PDF though, since they won't print with the grids, and stangely this one for once has a map with a hex grid rather than the standard squares. I have to say it does have by far my favorite NPC, I just have to make sure I lay the proper ground work for her introduction.


1 to 5 of 6 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
151 to 200 of 241 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Product still pending... :(


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I know this is a bit of repeat, but would it be possible for someone to give brief description of the resolutions of the remaining three campaign traits?

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Will have to say I love the move Desna pulled to raise Ash. I love seeing the reverse temptation pulled by a good god that both feels so well done and so appropriate to that mentality.


doc the grey wrote:
Will have to say I love the move Desna pulled to raise Ash. I love seeing the reverse temptation pulled by a good god that both feels so well done and so appropriate to that mentality.

I especially loved the fact that it was her relationship with Sarenrae that gave Desna the strength to circumvent her desire to just nuke Arueshalae in retaliation :)

Sometimes our relationships with others can bring out the better parts of ourselves :)

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dont suppose anyone would be willing to give a spoiler on Arueshalae for us? (Not got my copy yet and so woant to see if a theory of mine is true.)


Kevin Mack wrote:
Dont suppose anyone would be willing to give a spoiler on Arueshalae for us? (Not got my copy yet and so woant to see if a theory of mine is true.)

What would you like to know? :)

I'm at work right now and don't have access to my PDF, but I'll try to answer what I can from memory.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Mostly her background why she chose to redeem and such (Also whether her mortal self used to be a priest of Desna or not. My theory is she is the demonfied soul of that captured head priest mentioned in another book)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

What are Arueshalae's class levels? (and mythic tiers, if she has them).

Thank you!

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Tirisfal wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Will have to say I love the move Desna pulled to raise Ash. I love seeing the reverse temptation pulled by a good god that both feels so well done and so appropriate to that mentality.

I especially loved the fact that it was her relationship with Sarenrae that gave Desna the strength to circumvent her desire to just nuke Arueshalae in retaliation :)

Sometimes our relationships with others can bring out the better parts of ourselves :)

Yeah, part of why I'm still a little upset we didn't get more reverse tempters for the side of good yet (a "redeemer" if you will). That being said I'm happy to see that the concept at least is alive and well and with any luck we'll get something to fill that void.


doc the grey wrote:
Tirisfal wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Will have to say I love the move Desna pulled to raise Ash. I love seeing the reverse temptation pulled by a good god that both feels so well done and so appropriate to that mentality.

I especially loved the fact that it was her relationship with Sarenrae that gave Desna the strength to circumvent her desire to just nuke Arueshalae in retaliation :)

Sometimes our relationships with others can bring out the better parts of ourselves :)

Yeah, part of why I'm still a little upset we didn't get more reverse tempters for the side of good yet (a "redeemer" if you will). That being said I'm happy to see that the concept at least is alive and well and with any luck we'll get something to fill that void.

There is a redeemer angel in Chronicles of the Righteous.


Arueshalae's background:
She's a Master Spy/Trickster - I think she has three mythic tiers.

One night, while she was draining a priestess of Desna that she had seduced, Arueshalae decided to try an experiment. Outsiders don't sleep, and therefore don't dream, but she wanted to see what it was like. So, she used detect thoughts on the priestess while she slept.

She ended up getting sucked into the Dimension of Dreams and was trapped there when the priestess died. In daring to try to dream, Arueshalae came to Desna's attention. Desna almost obliterated her on the spot, but her pal Sarenrae has smoothed her edges over the millenniums and she ultimatly thought better of it. Instead, she reached deep into the succubus' core and filled her heart and mind and being with her mortal memories. When she woke up, she remembered her previous life and felt ashamed, so now she seeks to redeem herself with the help of her new goddess.

She's CN when the PCs meet her, but she's so close to pushing past that last hurdle and becoming CG. She's got DR/Lawful instead of Good if I remember correctly, and her succubus powers work a bit different.

I also have to say that the art they ordered for her in this book is incredible :)


So Arueshalae:

Spoiler:
The reason she was redeemed was because Desna put all the mind/memories of the dead priestess into her head? When that happens in fiction, I always wonder why that doesn't create identity conflict, experiences and memories playing their role in making people what they are and all.

Unless it did create huge conflict between one set of memories/experiences and the other?


I think what Tirisfal is saying is actually:

Spoiler:
Desna put the memories of Arueshalae's mortal life into her, not the dead priestesses.


Tinkergoth's got it right :)


Ah, my mistake.

Spoiler:
If the memories were of her mortal life... wouldn't they be a not-very-good life, if she wound up going to the Abyss and becoming a succubus? How did she end up in the Abyss to become a succubus in the first place?

Compare her mortal-memory situation to Nightripper the nascent demon lord, for example. He was a killer in life, went to the Abyss in death, and became a nascent demon lord. I'm pretty sure his life as a demon doesn't shame him.


Alleran wrote:

Ah, my mistake.

** spoiler omitted **

Probably? I dunno - that's more of a James question.

I just got home and looked over it, and there was one last thing I forgot - my favorite line in the entire book:

Best quote:
"Desna whispered in her ear: 'Even demons can dream.'"

:3


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Tirisfal wrote:
Alleran wrote:

Ah, my mistake.

** spoiler omitted **

Probably? I dunno - that's more of a James question.

I just got home and looked over it, and there was one last thing I forgot - my favorite line in the entire book:

** spoiler omitted **

:3

I might ask him about it.

That line reminds me a bit of Sandman.

Spoiler:
Lucifer: "You have no power here, for what power have dreams in Hell?"
Morpheus: "You say that I have no power? Perhaps you speak truly. But you say that dreams have no power? Ask yourselves, all of you. What power would Hell have if those imprisoned here could not dream of Heaven?"


Interesting. It kind of makes you wonder how many other fiends the gods have mindscrewed into goodness.


It probably only happens if they are in the god's domain and are the kind of god that would redeem a fiend.

Spoiler:
In this case, Ash was in the Dimension of Dreams, which is most certainly within the power of Desna.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

6 people marked this as a favorite.

@ Alleran,

I might be able to add some insight here. Let's talk about good and evil...

(I also refer to some Runelord's plot elements by way of comparison, so there's some spoilers for that too..)

Spoiler:
Demons, as I see them, are creatures of pure corruption. They represent evil for its own sake. However, demons are built from pieces of mortal souls who were not abstract in their perspective or utterly divorced from humanity or society (or what have you).

I come at it from the perspective that very very few people, if any, just are born evil. Maybe some are, as I've seen psychological case studies on sociopaths and feral children, but for the most the path of evil is just that—a journey. It's not a singular decision. It's not a function of an instant. It is a descent. You see this mirrored over and over in pop culture, literature, and even fantasy gaming. I could list examples, but they are numerous. Often times, it is part of the tragedy. You, the audience, can see it coming.

I think one of the misconceptions about outsiders is that they're incapable of a range of emotion. Even in Golarion's myths we see gods experiencing a complex range of emotion that doesn't always fit neatly into rigid alignments (Pharasma's cursing of the lamia, Asmodeus's complex relationship with the brother he once loved and then murdered, and Desna's sense of wrath towards Lamashtu over the murder of her friend and mentor). Taking it down a notch, based upon James's comments I believe that demons can experience a similar range of emotion but do their utmost to avoid it. Why? Because it is a liability. A demon that allows itself to love opens itself up to being destroyed, especially by its fellows. I imagine most demons do tell themselves they are incapable of feeling positive emotion, and repeat that to themselves over and over again because they really want it to be true! I imagine most powerful demons and demon lords reinforce this notion, over and over again, because they don't want any of the rank and file to experiment in order to find out. Otherwise you end up with a traitor like Arueshalae.

But common sense says that if an angel can fall, they reverse is also possible. Perhaps it's just more unlikely.

There is also the matter of memory loss. I think that is incidental to the years of torture, suffering, and humiliation that a soul endures as it forms into a demon, but having your mortal memories is also a liability. It is baggage that lends itself to liabilities like regret.

Also, demons are formed from many different larvae. Bits and pieces of multiple souls. I imagine Arueshalae's dominant personality is the soul of the largest and strongest larvae that her succubus form was composed of... that was the one that Desna located and restored to awareness. Wiping away the centuries of torture and shame, so that she could see clearly and objectively again. Good lord, and to think that a kindness? To force someone to take a good hard look in the proverbial mirror and see your own wasted life and the countless number of ruined lives you've left in your wake? It is a testament to Arueshalae's strength and pushes herself to try and undo some of the damage. It speaks to Desna's compassion that she allows Arueshalae to try.

In the case of the Nightripper, he might be more of a composite entity created from the fusion of a thousand serial killers... none of which have been singled out and awakened as with the case of Arueshalae.

But you see, very few people just wake up one day and decide "I'm going to be a monster." Let's look at Runelords for a second... Nualia certainly didn't just decide to be evil one day. She was responsible for her choices, but she never asked to be isolated from her community. She never asked to be objectified by her beauty or by her race. All she wanted was someone to love her. Instead she got used for sex and abandoned. She never asked for her baby to be born a deformed half-fiend monster, it happened because she gave herself in love to an undeserving young man (motivated by lust) too close to an evil shrine to a Demon Goddess of fertility and monsters. After the midwifes buried her monster child in secret, she never asked for her only parent to lock her in a church, plan to send her to a convent, and tell her to pray for forgiveness for all the wrong she had done. Her sins? Like she asked for any of that crap? Wanting to be treated like a person and not a freak, and for someone to love her? To be blamed for wanting what everybody wants? To be loved as a person? Good heavens, its not surprising she snapped. Mind you, I don't give Nualia a free pass. She's responsible for her misdeeds and she was a villain—but that girl didn't wake up one day and decide, "I shall be a monster!"

I don't know.. I am rambling now. Maybe you'll get the gist. I'm going to let James get his two cents in here now. :) And hope he doesn't mind me speaking up.


Jim Groves wrote:

@ Alleran,

I might be able to add some insight here. Let's talk about good and evil...

(I also refer to some Runelord's plot elements by way of comparison, so there's some spoilers for that too..)

** spoiler omitted **...

Thanks for replying, and I don't mind spoilers. If I did, I wouldn't be opening up all the spoilered posts to find out details about WotR from the subscribers who have it already!

Anyway, a couple of notes (there will be scattered spoilers, of course, hence the tags):

Spoiler:
I don't think that outsiders are locked into a single emotion, necessarily, and there is absolutely room for differentiation within their individual aspects.

That being said, however, demons are "exemplars" of their alignments, to the point where they are composed of Chaos and Evil (in the case of the Abyss). And not "evil" in a philosophical sense, but as an actual substance within the multiverse. They're archetypes. Demons could feel happiness, and I don't think they'd try to avoid feeling it either. That they might feel that happiness from, say, holding out the skinned flesh of a green-haired gnome druid's snow leopard companion and offering a deal to give it back doesn't make the emotion less positive, or mean they enjoy it any less. It won't be positive for the poor druid, but it makes the demon happy (in a "muahahaha" sense rather than a "lookit-the-adorable-kittenz!" sense).

As far as gods are concerned, I never really think of them as exemplars of an alignment. They're not infallible. It came up in another thread elsewhere on the forums where I noted that Sarenrae went nuclear on Gormuz in a fit of anger and rage, and even though she blew a giant hole straight to Rovagug's prison, her alignment wasn't affected in a measurable way (although she did start espousing redemption over vengeance more strongly). Then there's Tabris falling from LG to LN, although I never really thought of angels as exemplars. More divine servants/servitors.

In a consideration of Nature vs Nurture, for "exemplars" I would say that it's not just Nurture that does it (the note on avoiding emotion), it's Nature. And fighting that nature should be an extreme, a battle. Like a human trying not to breathe. In this context, that analogy doesn't quite hold up (since that nature can be fought under certain circumstances), but I hope it sort of illustrates what I'm trying to communicate.

Incidentally, where Nightripper is concerned, his history is that as a mortal he died, and then he passed through to the Abyss with his mind and memory intact. Lamashtu then boosted him to a nascent lord, and he's perfectly happy in his role. He's not referred to as a composite. I strongly suspect that if he was the one digging into dreams, he'd laugh at the sudden nostalgia and then head off to find something else to murderise in a new and horrifying way.

As a mortal, Arueshalae got herself sent to the Abyss. This does mean she was likely not on the "nice" end of the alignment spectrum. No Nightripper, maybe, but still evil. A kindness to show her a "wasted life" is that it's a wasted life from Desna's perspective. From the perspective of the person Arueshalae was in life to be sentenced to the Chaotic Evil afterlife as a larva, it might be a very different thing.

Consider Ileosa Arabasti in CoCT. She's definitely evil from the start, but she was a coward and unimaginative... until she got the Crown of Fangs, and now she has the power and the drive to accomplish what she couldn't before. Would she look back on her previous life and think it wasted, if she was given a sudden memory rush? Yes, but she would, in her post-CoF state, think it wasted because then she was weak, and now she's strong. She went from pretty low on the totem pole of evil to measuring her alignment in Kilonazis. If she got Desna's mind-whammy, would she try to mend her ways?

To me, it feels as though what Desna did, from descriptions given here, isn't just showing her a wasted life, it's actually screwing with Arueshalae's moral compass in a very real sense. And while that starts Arueshalae on the road of Fall-From-Grace, it's still Desna "mindscrewing" her towards goodness rather than deciding to mend her ways solely because she had a sudden crisis of conscience on remembering her mortal life.

And I would still be perfectly okay with that. If one is dealing with Chaos and Evil incarnate, then it does make sense to me that you'd need a literally divinely-inspired dose of mind-whammy plus one Abyss of a kick in the pants to get you on the Highway to Heaven.


I think I started rambling myself towards the end there and wandered around. Anyway, some thoughts in a very tired, 3:30AM state of half-asleepness. Time to have some dreams of my own.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Alleran,

I regret forgetting the Nightripper's history. It gets challenging to remember all of the canon. I am not ashamed to say I'm not the first freelancer who has said it is difficult to keep up on our reading!

:)

You sound comfortable with your interpretation, and I think that is a fine thing. I am not going to tell you that you're wrong, even if I have a different perspective. When it comes stuff like this I don't think the game or this adventure needs an absolute truth. My job is to entertain, and if you and your group are entertained, that is good enough for me.

Yeah, that may sound kind of "safe" and or "slippery" but I mean it—we agree that there is 'a' way for a demon to be redeemed. The story works fine either way you see that happening. I hope you have fun!

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Odraude wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Tirisfal wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Will have to say I love the move Desna pulled to raise Ash. I love seeing the reverse temptation pulled by a good god that both feels so well done and so appropriate to that mentality.

I especially loved the fact that it was her relationship with Sarenrae that gave Desna the strength to circumvent her desire to just nuke Arueshalae in retaliation :)

Sometimes our relationships with others can bring out the better parts of ourselves :)

Yeah, part of why I'm still a little upset we didn't get more reverse tempters for the side of good yet (a "redeemer" if you will). That being said I'm happy to see that the concept at least is alive and well and with any luck we'll get something to fill that void.
There is a redeemer angel in Chronicles of the Righteous.

I know and I love that guy but to me he always feels like one built to work with mortals more then outsiders. I mean we have so many angel breakers it feels like floating around the multiverse for evil, I would love to see a "Demon redeemer" that shows up somewhere in the mix.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Is anyone else still waiting for their order? It goes up for sale for non-Adventure Path dubscribers tomorrow and it still shows as 'pending' on my Account screen. :(


mikeawmids wrote:
Is anyone else still waiting for their order? It goes up for sale for non-Adventure Path dubscribers tomorrow and it still shows as 'pending' on my Account screen. :(

Yep, still waiting :(

Grand Lodge

This month there was some major problems with the sheer amounts of orders and volume of products being submitted to Paizo. Not to mention some computer glitches that happened. Hence some of the issues that have arisen because of this. Sara Marie has assured us as subscribers and such that they are working on the shipping issues and they WILL ship as soon as they are able to. If your subscription order (under "My Subscriptions" at the top of the page) does not say Pending... you should get in touch with Sara Marie and or customer service right away. Otherwise you are in a queue and on the list to have your orders ship soon. So it will happen.

So they do ask for patience while this happens. We all know that we are not promised to get our orders before the Stores and street dates happen but usually we at least get the PDF's before hand though. But not even that is promised to us either. It does not happen often but it DOES happen occasionally. Meanwhile we wait :)

(This has all been said (not verbatim) by Sara Marie in the customer service area under October subscriptions. You can find it here; http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q7qu?-October-Subscription-Shipping

I wish you all luck as I too wait for my orders to arrive as they have not been shipped nor do I even have the PDF's yet either.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Question for Amanda Hamon (or whoever, really...it's just she wrote up that section of the book).

How is the locust that walks a 'variant'? Perhaps it's jsut because it's not spelled out, but I see nothing that distinguishes it from a normal worm that walks...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

UllarWarlord wrote:

Question for Amanda Hamon (or whoever, really...it's just she wrote up that section of the book).

How is the locust that walks a 'variant'? Perhaps it's jsut because it's not spelled out, but I see nothing that distinguishes it from a normal worm that walks...

Its stats are unchanged... but it's appearance and flavor are changed. That's enough to qualify it as a variant in my book! Especially since it's not made out of worms.

Paizo Employee Contributor

Yep, James beat me to that exact answer. :D

Since it's a worm that walks that's not actually made of worms -- and looks quite different from the iconic images of worms that walk -- we called it a variant. There just aren't any stat variations in its block.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Thanks, guys! Now I have nothing standing in my way of making a fly that walks...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
UllarWarlord wrote:
Thanks, guys! Now I have nothing standing in my way of making a fly that walks...

Except Asmodeus, he seems the type to be upset when someone steals his ideas.

Shadow Lodge

Squeakmaan wrote:
UllarWarlord wrote:
Thanks, guys! Now I have nothing standing in my way of making a fly that walks...
Except Asmodeus, he seems the type to be upset when someone steals his ideas.

ORIGINAL CHARACTER, DO NOT STEAL

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

1 person marked this as a favorite.

My two C-bills on Ash.

Spoiler:
I’ve heard accounts time and again from addicts that when you hit bottom is only when you can start to dig yourself out of an addiction. I think it is something similar for Ash.
When she was alive, she was an evil person, maybe just on the edge, maybe full blown CE. Either way, she died, and her soul was judged and sent to the abyss. Maybe she had regrets when she arrived, maybe she didn’t. Either way, her soul was beaten, folded, spindled, and mutilated into a succubus.
We don’t know how long she was a demon. Time is immaterial to this case. What happened was that Ash-the-succubus was a slightly exceptional member of her kind, and did the ‘normal’ succubus things.
Then she crossed the wrong deity.
Ash-as-awakened apparently didn’t hit bottom, she shot right past bottom and found a new sub-basement. Ash-with-memories-of-her-life was mortified that she’d done things (sure, technically it wasn’t Ash-before-she-died, but the memories are all of what they’ve done) that she’d never even consider. Seducing a wife to break up a marriage for kicks? Sure. Maybe even poisoning a lover? Sure. But Ash-before-she-died likely never considered eating someone’s life force, or sending their soul to be shredded by demons. Or Worse... So she re-evaluated her new life, like the guy who was a binge drug user and woke up one morning beaten and naked and not able to remember what happened. So she’s strong enough to pull herself up, without the aid of a Demons Anonymous. (More importantly from a player PoV, she’s able to ‘pull herself up’ to CN, and needs them as a support group to make it to CG.)
At least that’s how I see her.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Orthos wrote:
Squeakmaan wrote:
UllarWarlord wrote:
Thanks, guys! Now I have nothing standing in my way of making a fly that walks...
Except Asmodeus, he seems the type to be upset when someone steals his ideas.
ORIGINAL CHARACTER, DO NOT STEAL

Imitation is the highest form of flattery!

...though I doubt he'd fall for it...

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Cydeth, I wanted to thank you for the five star review (and I am sure that James does too). It's always gratifying to see people enjoying the adventures!


Really wish I could read it. Got my initial subscription e-mail on the 15th, but still have not gotten the shipping e-mail so still do not have the PDF. Can subscribers at least get the PDF since it has been released for a couple days now?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Jim Groves wrote:
Cydeth, I wanted to thank you for the five star review (and I am sure that James does too). It's always gratifying to see people enjoying the adventures!

No problem, I absolutely loved what you did with the adventure, and am so looking forward to running it and inflic-I mean letting my players experience it. Thank you so much for writing it!

Now I need to finish my adventures...

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

@ RogueShadow3,

Thank you for your kind words! I'm pleased that we could provide you with some NPCs that hopefully lead to some really meaningful roleplaying. Thank you again for your review!

Edit: I'll link your review to the website feedback. Maybe Robot Chris can have a look at those interactive maps when her schedule permits.


Pending, Pending, Pending........................................

This is ridiculous.


Just received my hardcopy in the mail today. The postal service treated it more roughly than I would have liked and scrunched up one of the corners. Disappointing. :(


I found myself rather disappointed after reading through Demon's Heresy. The players are essentially demoted from the mythic leaders of a great crusade against evil to a bunch of errand boys/girls for Irabeth as she takes command of the city they liberated. It's basically a small uninspired sandbox with little in the way of story beyond "scouting" out the area and helping Irabeth rebuild her new city. The story doesn't really pick up again until you encounter the reformed succubus, but first the players need to gain a few levels scouting and what largely amounts to running errands. And that's where this story suffers. There are lots of small and relatively uninteresting encounters/side-quests.

Ultimately, I think SoV sets up those players inclined to general their own battles and rule their own lands to expect DH to be something different than what they ultimately get. And I think that can make for some disgruntled players.

In the real world, a letter like the one Queen Galfrey sent to the players after they liberated Drezen would be considered a demotion and something of an insult despite the effusive praise. I can already see my group of players, who -loved- Kingmaker, saying "Screw this! We're out of here. Let's go adventure somewhere else." when they're stripped of their command of the knights and Irabeth gets promoted to ruler over them.

Now it wouldn't be that hard to edit DH to make it work, ie. give them rulership of the city they liberated, and make it feel more like Kingmaker, and less like Pawnmaker. This way they won't feel like they've been kicked in the teeth, and I don't have to hear things like, "You told us in part 2 (as per the book) that our knighthoods entitled us to rule land", and "If the Queen wanted Irabeth to rule why didn't she put her in charge of the mission to liberate Drezen?"

I've just reached a point where I don't have a lot of time to edit adventures. My free time isn't what it once was. So I'm going to grumble when books like this one are produced that aren't very well thought out.


Well, you could also give them the vague religious explanation that Queen Galifrey believes that Iomedae has greater plans than rulership in mind for the PCs.

They're far too important to the crusade to simply get a "desk job" like ruling a city.

If your PCs feel like they've "been demoted", then they may be more invested in petty rulership than they are in closing the Worldwound, and this may not be the AP for them.


I have to disagree. Most of what you are shrugging off as scouting and errands are actually tied to each character's personal story and background trait they chose. If you treat them only likely little errands, that's all they're going to be...but there is so much more potential in each of those side-quests, even before the succubus. Whether they feel worthy of mythic characters or vital to the story falls a lot on the DM running it.

Speaking for myself, if I was in there shoes I wouldn't want to be tied down to running a city anyway. You're sitting in the middle of the world wound, surrounded by armies of slavering demons ready to rip your head off and you want a SimCity experience? I like the idea of taking the fight to them on their own lands on our terms and not huddling up in the one little bastion we managed to take.


I recognize that there is a significant slice of the player audience that will happily delegate command of the expeditionary force of knights to Irabeth in Sword of Valor, because they don't want that responsibility. All they want to do is kill monsters and collect l00t. And they'll have no reason to be disappointed with Demon's Heresy when Irabeth is given command of the city. They're not my group however.

In Kingmaker, which this AP has misguidedly been compared to, rulership was by no means a "desk job". So the precedent of rulers who adventure has already been set, and it's a precedent that is much loved by my players.

This precedent is built upon in the Ultimate Campaign book, which the preceding volume in this series, Sword of Valor, integrates heavily, creating expectations. Demon's Heresy however drops the ball, stripping the players of both command and rulership without giving them anything meaningful in return. And it's that dropping of the ball that is the problem.

Furthermore there is no plan to close the Worldwound presented in DH, not even a search for a way to push it out of the newly reclaimed land. It's just a lot of scouting until you finally are high enough level to free Ash. And rulership is no more petty than looting dead enemies, and quite a bit less morally less questionable. Both provide resources that can be intelligently allocated in the demon war.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Okay. Maybe you should write a review if it's bugging you that much?


Regarding the background side-quests:

1) Instead of being available to all mythic paths, they're each associated with a different path. So if you want a certain mythic path, the associated background is forced on you.

2) Some players, including my own, prefer to craft their own backgrounds. To those players, canned backgrounds are an unwanted imposition on player freedom to craft their own characters.

I thus doubt that more than half of my players, if that, would choose to integrate elements from the canned backgrounds associated with their mythic path.

Regarding "Huddling Up in Drezen in the middle of the Worldwound":

1) If you think I'm arguing for huddling up in the city, then you really don't understand what Kingmaker was about. There was a lot of both adventuring and domain expansion occurring in Kingmaker.

2) The city is not less safe than the wilds of the Worldwound, or even Mendev itself now that the wardstone wall has fallen. Drezen at least now has the Sword of Valor protecting it thanks to the PC's.

3) The city is not in the middle of the Worldwound, it's pretty close to the Mendev border.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

P Tigras wrote:
In Kingmaker, which this AP has misguidedly been compared to, rulership was by no means a "desk job". So the precedent of rulers who adventure has already been set, and it's a precedent that is much loved by my players.

For the most part, I am going to step back and let James respond to this critique, if he wants to.

However, may I ask where exactly this "Kingmaker" comparison came from which has created an expectation which led to you being disappointed? This is a genuine question, I'm not trying for a "gotchya". I have seen the fan-base community make this comparison, but I have never seen it promoted as such from the "in-house" side of things.

If it has been promoted as such, could you give me a pointer? I promise not quibble about this either way. I'm just honestly curious.


It sounds like you dislike this module because it isn't Kingmaker.

This AP isn't Kingmaker because its Wrath of the Righteous, not Kingmaker. If you want this AP to be more like Kingmaker, then you need to adjust the AP to your needs.


I'm not going to get into some sort of arguing match that takes up pages on this product page. I disagree with you, heavily at that, but you're free to your own opinions and I hope you find a way to adjust that works for you and your group. My own group is really enjoying this adventure path and how it has been done, so to each their own.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I thought that Irabeth being put in charge over the players was a weird thing also, but it's something that's easily enough remedied by changing to to the queen offering up Irabeth's services as a stand in commander of Drezen when the players are otherwise preoccupied or it's inconvenient for them to run the day to day operations of the city as hero's of the war when they are needed other places.

Still it would have been nice if the it was created that way or at least stated more clearly if that's the way it was supposed to be.

When I get around to running this part I won't have Irabeth making the decisions about the city when the characters are there and it's reasonable for them to do so themselves.

151 to 200 of 241 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Paizo / Product Discussion / Pathfinder Adventure Path #75: Demon's Heresy (Wrath of the Righteous 3 of 6) (PFRPG) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.